Okay, now I'm too irritated to stay away.

[Mythsaje]

Though, honestly, I anticipate anything I post to be immediately inundated by regenerating green creatures known for inhabiting areas under bridges and internet message boards. I've obviously offended some people (some people I don't recognize in the first place, but okay) by admitting something again that I've never hidden in the first place. I'm a writer. An artist. Who has a website. Who includes the link to that website in my signature line. Posting here does good things to my website traffic. This means more people know who I am. I never said ANYTHING about sales, though I certainly don't feel terrible when someone I believe is a DUer happens to pick up one of my books. I'm not getting rich posting on DU, let me tell you.

Success would be nice. Money wouldn't be bad. But in many ways the most important thing for a writer is recognition. To be noticed. What good does it do to write something no one is reading? I mean, if your dream since 4th grade was to be an author? I think some folks assumed that I was talking about having some profit motive for posting here, and believe me, there's been no profit in it to speak of. I've made more from my books by buying them and selling them to people I know than I've probably made from posting here. And that's cool too.

I post here because I have strong opinions about the state of our country and our world. I post here with even less of a shield of anonymity than most, given that I do not hide who I am. I risk some professional status by saying some of the things I do, should I say something to offend a potential reader. But I am a proud liberal and would take my lumps rather than hide who I am and what I believe from those who would attempt to marginalize me and those who think like me. But, I find rather than being respected for doing this, I'm actually reviled for daring to admit that being on the Greatest page enhances my visibility and, perhaps, my marketability.

Let me ask you--do you or have you ever gotten the impression that most of my posts were meant to convince people to buy one or more of my books? Other than the ones in which I admitted that I liked attention BECAUSE I hoped someday to be successful as an artist? How many of my posts have been standing up for something, or someone, or standing against something I believed I had good reason to oppose?

I know a lot of folks like this unrec feature. If it works the way some people hope, that's great. But one talent (or curse, if you see it that way) I have is to see the possible negative consequences of anything. I'm an optimist who, by some odd quirk of thought, can usually give you a rundown on all the things that might go wrong at any crossroad. I don't like to be blindsided.

I would have hoped that I'd earned enough respect here to be given the benefit of the doubt, but I should have known that the notion of respect has been twisted so far out of shape that all too many people wouldn't recognize it if they saw it again. As an old sensei put it: "Respect everyone, but trust very few."

I can't remember the last time I descended on someone else's threads to curse them, or to attack them personally. The worst I can be accused of in that respect is a few sardonic comments, but never anything intended to be overtly offensive. And I doubt if anyone can point to a time I've been intentionally cruel to anyone.

One thing I hope people know about me is that I'm nearly always in the underdog's corner and I despise abuse of power more than just about anything in the world. I'm also not a big fan of anyone who assumes he or she is better than me. I don't make that sort of assumption and I would thank others to grant me the same courtesy.

One thing I'm pretty sure of right now is that our opposites are having a good chuckle over this whole thing right now. They don't like me very much and that's okay with me. If things go so far as to make DU inhospitable to me, I'm sure they'll take a great deal of pleasure in the outcome.

And, as a final note, maybe some people should learn to recognize the difference between a "good bye cruel world" post and a "I've got to get out of here before I post something I'll regret" post.

Just a suggestion.

[and-justice-for-all]

1. unrec does not remove your post from DU...nt

[Mythsaje]

4. No, but it can bury it. n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

6. Anything in GD will get buried...

need to learn where your post should actually go rather than post it in GD, Then it might stay up a lot longer.

[Mythsaje]

I've always posted in GD.

I feel weird about changing that.

[omega minimo]

138. Well good thing there's plenty of people to tell you what you should do

:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

148. So many experts. How did we all live without them.

lol

[omega minimo]

153. Who knew

what was really under that rock :wow:

[TexasObserver]

23. That's incorrect. Only failing to draw responses can bury a thread.

There's no truth to your supposition. Many threads have negative recommends, but are very active and lively.

You've created a mythology and you're preaching its gospel, but there's not a word of truth in it. Unrecommends are a thumbs down on the original post, and you don't like having that thumbs down. All of this lofty sounding argument against unrecommends is driven by the bruised egos of those who have seen their Greatest Page fix disappear.

[masuki bance]

25. How?

Unrec'ding doesn't drop your post.

[pecwae]

97. And so what?

Really, does that change your life in some way? I don't understand folks who hang so much importance on their popularity on a web site.

edit to point out somewhat needlessly that this OP has NOT been buried by Unrec.

[CTyankee]

137. I wonder about this too. It seems to me that both Ignore and Unrecommend

are really just time wasters and I don'tunderstand it when you can easily do both by just ignoring or not recommending on your own. I spend too much time on DU as it is...:)

[omega minimo]

139. I don't understand folks who hang so much importance on OTHERS' popularity on a web site.

[slipslidingaway]

110. It sure does! n/t

[cali]

2. this all seems just a tad melodramatic. n/t

[Mythsaje]

3. What does that even MEAN? n/t

[cali]

9. Let me spell it out for you: You're writing post after dramatic post

all about you, you, you and unrec. It's ridiculous, self-absorbed and petty. It's melodramatic.

[Mythsaje]

12. You're really not a very nice person, are you?

Glad I'm not you.

[lindisfarne]

13. Cali IS being nice. S/he is stating something that's obvious, which you don't want to hear.

Something that many have simply not expressed (although many have in other threads - which I ignored until now), except perhaps via UNrec. You asked for further clarification from Cali; you got it.

[cali]

17. You asked what I meant. My initial post was quite clear.

Oh, and yeah, your first post on the unrec thing, was certainly a GBCW post. Not your first here. You're like the little boy who cried wolf with your threats to leave DU. It's silly. Furthermore, your posts are all about how horrible and mean some DUers are as you excoriate them- and how wonderful you are. I can't imagine a sillier thing to make yourself a martyr over.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

41. Oh, for pity's sake. DU isn't your private fiefdom.

and yeah, you're being melodramatic. As for substance, I post on things other than myself- politics, Vermont oriented information, etc. You post all about you, you, you. And no, I'm not a bully. You, oth....

[earth mom]

119. ROFL! But you think DU is your private fiefdom.

How many times have I seen your OPs spewing your opinions and how YOU are the last word on everything?

Get real. :eyes:

[earth mom]

118. You got that right.

:yoiks:

[omega minimo]

134. Glad

they're invisible

[earth mom]

117. delete

:

[Waiting For Everyman]

5. Rec (this way it won't cancel out)

I like your posts and your site (just saw it). I'd <recommend> ignoring the snarky jerks, there are a lot more people who read than the number who post.

The ugly ones are immature, insecure, and only impressing themselves.

Btw, I'm another one who never reads the Greatest page. I don't like unrec either, but lots of us don't care about the popularity page... and I read pretty far down the forum page too, sometimes to the second page. Sometimes I'll search a writer I like. The "Greatest" isn't much to a lot of us - I say that based on seeing numerous posts making the same point in the last few days.

[hfojvt]

47. there's a fairly easy way to find writers you like

If you add them to your 'buddy list' then when they update their journal it shows up on your 'my du' page just below 'my posts'.

[Syrinx]

7. I don't mean to be mean or impolite, and I hope I don't sound that way

But whenever I read one of your posts, the main subject of the post seems to always be... Saje Williams. Even if your subject is ostensibly "world hunger" or whatever, it always comes back to yourself.

This comment is offered as constructive criticism, and I wish you luck in your writing career.

:hi:

[and-justice-for-all]

8. "The ugly ones are immature, insecure, and only impressing themselves."

See post #5

[lapfog_1]

10. Must have missed it.

Anyway, sorry, I don't know what happened to you, sounds bad, sounds like some of our own members snapped at you for something you posted, and with some very unfounded criticism. I've read probably hundreds of threads by you and never knew that you sold your writings or art work to individuals. I knew you wrote, of course, but never bothered to check out you web site. And there was never a hint of you pushing any commercial ventures here, at least as far as I've seen.

People, especially when hiding behind a keyboard, can be very unfeeling creatures.

Sigh.

[lindisfarne]

11. Stop insinuating that you're somehow better than others because you're not anonymous.

"I post here with even less of a shield of anonymity than most, given that I do not hide who I am."

That's your choice. It doesn't make you better than anyone else. You're still fairly anonymous, given you don't have to interact with many (if any) DUers in person. Many people here do amazing things in their personal lives where they're not anonymous. They don't care if they're noticed. That matters a lot to you ("But in many ways the most important thing for a writer is recognition. To be noticed.")- thus your willingness to publicize who you are.

I personally find writing very valuable for thinking through complex issues. I don't need anyone to read it for it to be valuable to me. You choose to write for others - that's your choice.

An argument against the Unrec function, mainly because you feel it may prevent your threads from getting to GP and thus, generate less traffic to your website, is, quite frankly, selfish.

If there's a vote up, there ought to be a vote down - in fact, currently, the system is skewed towards the Recs because you can only see how positively a thread has been evaluated to be (for negatively evaluated threads, all you can see is <0). I am quite frankly amazed at how important a vote from a stranger seems to matter to some people - to the point where I'd actually be quite concerned with certain people if I knew them in person and knew they were getting so upset over this.

And, if you keep posting these threads, CHOOSE to stop being hurt by negative evaluations of them. Recs and Unrecs are not an evaluation of you on personal level, they are an evaluation of some aspect of the OP (or it may even be an evaluation of the entire thread).

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. Not better, just more courageous. n/t

[lindisfarne]

15. I know plenty of people who are courageous in their daily lives who choose to not reveal themselves

on the internet.

Choosing to not be anonymous says nothing about one's courage.

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. Speaking as someone who remains anonymous, by my definition, it does. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. "the Greatest page enhances my visibility and, perhaps, my marketability."

That's all you needed to say. Why beat around the bush? That kind of honesty is actually a breath of fresh air.

Since it's so important to you that your posts make it to the Greatest Page, being that it might help put food on your table or money in your bank account, I give you my solemn promise that I'll NEVER unrec one of your posts no matter how much I may disagree with it.

"I'm also not a big fan of anyone who assumes he or she is better than me." Well neither am I, but I don't feel compelled to say as much. Lots, LOTS of people here assume they are better than me. Daily. That hasn't motivated me to write a "goodbye cruel world" post, OR a "something I'll regret" post. Most of us aren't afraid to post "something I'll regret" if, at the moment, it's what motivates us to post in the first place. Most of us aren't that calculated in what we say.

No matter what anyone says about me here, I can boast one thing: I've been called worse things, by better people.

Here's why I support wholeheartedly Skinner's decision to upgrade DU by adding an unrec feature: You, and a handful of other posters have a sycophantic following. Yes, you write well. Would that I could express myself as well as you do. But I digress... A post from you brings AUTOMATIC recs. Just as a post from xxxx xxxx, wwww wwww, or yyyy yyyy brings AUTOMATIC recs. I could say the same thing about ten, maybe twelve DU posters. Some people could start a thread with the subject line "MY shit doesn't stink" and no matter what they follow it up with, it would bring replies along the lines of "I smell roses!". That gets very tiresome. And I might add that it's not just the rec, but the "Thank you thank you thank you for sharing your thoughts with us... I wish you'd post more" bullshit.

Bottom line: I promise not to unrec your threads if it's possible that my unrec might take food off of your table, or money out of your bank account.

[Mythsaje]

18. Honestly it probably won't do either...

Maybe at some future date, perhaps, but who knows.

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. Why be so melodramatic then? Does your writing sell on it's own merit?

I admit I've never read anything you've written outside of DU. Your DU posts don't impress me as much as they do others, obviously. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a single thing against you as either an individual or a DU member. DU member is the only objective way I have of evaluating you though. Based on what I've read, not all of your posts are deserving of promotion to the Greatest Page. But, that's just me. I don't read the Greatest Page anyway.

Again, I'd like to reiterate the reason I'm supportive of Skinner's decision to upgrade DU with the unrec feature: it's that I'm tired of seeing a few people write posts that other DU'ers genuflect to. It's not about you personally.

[Mythsaje]

24. What, you think books sell themselves?

Do you have any idea of the millions spent by the big houses to promote their star performers? It's the part of the whole damn thing I hate--the promotion. Writing a good book isn't enough. You have to go out and tell people about it over and over and over and over again and hope that you're not drowned out in the cacophony of other voices saying the same thing.

[Egnever]

27. WoW

I am pretty sure DU was not made to promote books for people. If you write a decent thread that people generally think is well thought through and presented I am quite sure you will still make it to the greatest.

Have a little faith in your writing perhaps? and a little more for your fellow DU denizen.

This poor me stuff is not your best work.

[lindisfarne]

30. And yet, somehow, voices make it through. I think it's great there's so much competition -that means

a lot is getting written. Many views, many perspectives. But also lots more garbage than there used to be - word of mouth recommendations are perhaps more important.

With the internet, you can reach far more people than you could have just 20 years ago. Think of how much more difficult it would have been for you just 2 decades ago. Bless your lucky stars the internet came along.

Discriminating people long ago learned to NOT pay attention to the hype - not for books, not for movies. If you want discriminating readers, don't wish for hype. Lots of good writers make it without it.

How in the world do you handle 20 rejections from various publishers on one book if you can't handle DU? Maybe you circumvent it through direct marketing - the internet may have saved you from the very ego-bashing experience of publisher rejection.

[EFerrari]

35. You've never ever tried to sell a piece of writing, have you? n/t

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

44. I asked a question. Didn't issue a command or deliver a litany

of gratuitous advice rather than address the OP.

So, have you?

[lindisfarne]

46. I'm sorry but I fail to see how your question is relevant. You might think you know the answer, but

you likely would be wrong.

[Lasher]

49. Got a link to a website where your books are sold?

I might want to buy one.

[lindisfarne]

50. How is that relevant to the post (#30) that the question responded to? I keep asking

for explanations of why the question is even relevant, yet no one can explain. I may not agree with the explanation, but I'm curious as to the logic behind it.

EDIT:
I'm off for now; you haven't responded so far.

[Lasher]

52. EFerrari asked if you had ever tried to sell a book.

That was a pretty simple question. Why won't you answer it? A simple 'yes' or 'no' would be fine.

[lindisfarne]

54. How is that a relevant response to #30? I don't see the relevance; I don't see the point.

Generally I ignore pointless posts, but I thought I'd give the person a chance.

Explain the relevance.

Edit: I am off for now. I only responded after writing that above, because you posted at the same time.

[Lasher]

59. Thanks for helping me make my point.

You won't answer the question but here, let me help you: No, you have never tried to sell a book.

[lindisfarne]

116. I don't see how your personal unsubstantiated belief is relevant to the points I made in #30. (

[omega minimo]

141. They can't answer

b/c their invisible fingers melt through the keyboard.

[greguganus]

86. "Do not use our message board for personal fundraising, for-profit advertising,...

...or selling products or services, except in the specially-designated "DU Marketplace" forum. We will occasionally make an exception in cases where the product or service contributes to the Democratic or progressive cause, provided that you ask an administrator for permission before you post."

DU rules. Third paragraph, listed under "Content".

[Lasher]

93. What planet are you living on? I wasn't trying to sell anything.

Before you cite the rules to me, maybe you should try to understand them yourself.

[EFerrari]

I was certain that after all the advice you lavished on Saje

you were drawing from a deep well of experience.

[lindisfarne]

56. Yes, I have a well of experience. But I still don't see the relevance of the question

with respect to #30.

[omega minimo]

135. you spelt

"malice" wrong :hi:

[cherokeeprogressive]

37. No, I don't think that books sell themselves. And, the more I think about it, the less

I fault you for using a public forum to get your message out.

You're right, writing a good book isn't good enough. Any good book has to have the blessing of someone who has the wherewithal to put it in front of those who would read it, if any money is to be made from writing the book in the first place.

Our DU disagreement aside, I just visited your website for the first time. I was instantly convinced that you write the kind of fiction I grew up fascinated by. My dollars will be in your bank account sooner than later. Forgive me for being so obstinate.

My point was that you get recs just because you're you, and I stand by that. A handful of other DU'ers get the same pass. For that reason, I continue to stand by Skinner's decision to include an unrec option.

Now, I'm going to go to bed, but in the morning I will certainly peruse your website.

[Mythsaje]

58. Thanks...

I hope you enjoy it. If you really want to get a taste before deciding to buy something, you can join my Yahoo group and read a bunch of free shorts. I'd give away more than I sold if my wife wouldn't kill me for it.

[Maru Kitteh]

62. You admit you are here selling books? Repulsive. Truly. n/'t

[Mythsaje]

67. WILL I sell books here? If asked, sure.

But do I post here JUST to sell books? No.

You have a weird concept of repulsive.

[MineralMan]

99. There's a Marketplace topic on this site.

It's designed for members to promote their own money-making ventures. The rest of the site is designed for other discussions. Nothing wrong with a link in your sig line...lots of people have those. There is something wrong with doing active marketing on this site, other than in the Marketplace.

[trotsky]

102. "the cacophony of other voices saying the same thing"

Well then, why don't you write something UNIQUE?

For Koresh's sake. :eyes:

[Mythsaje]

125. Do you have the faintest idea what you're talking about?

I didn't think so.

[trotsky]

127. Well, I've got a pretty damn good idea that someone is a whiny primadonna.

Who is frustrated that they can't use DU as a personal vehicle to promote themselves as effectively anymore. And to that I say, hot damn.

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Faux pas]

40. Thank you for putting my thoughts into words.

"Here's why I support wholeheartedly Skinner's decision to upgrade DU by adding an unrec feature: You, and a handful of other posters have a sycophantic following. Yes, you write well. Would that I could express myself as well as you do. But I digress... A post from you brings AUTOMATIC recs. Just as a post from xxxx xxxx, wwww wwww, or yyyy yyyy brings AUTOMATIC recs. I could say the same thing about ten, maybe twelve DU posters. Some people could start a thread with the subject line "MY shit doesn't stink" and no matter what they follow it up with, it would bring replies along the lines of "I smell roses!". That gets very tiresome. And I might add that it's not just the rec, but the "Thank you thank you thank you for sharing your thoughts with us... I wish you'd post more" bullshit."

I know for a fact that I couldn't have said it better myself.
:yourock:

[Lasher]

74. I agree with that too.

These followings are not the only thing factor where automatic recs could come into play. There are some topics that evoke passion from relatively few people. Just five of them could ensure that every contribution on one particular subject got to the Greatest Page. The unrec feature helps ensure this message board will not be highjcked by supporters of any one cause.

[orleans]

19. damn! i just posted something really nice to you and it got dumped into

fucking cyberspace.

well, this is the jist of what i said:

don't let it get you down.

i posted on your thread from yesterday http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6036351&mesg_id=6039098

i like your website
(you're very cute)
seems like you've got a lot going on

don't worry about this

recommend, unrecommend--who cares?
someone doesn't like something--fuck 'em

it will be okay :hug: :grouphug: :hug:

[UndertheOcean]

26. I disagree with cali , this is extremely melodramatic.n/t

[masuki bance]

28. I think there were people posting here that didn't realize that there were large numbers

of people that didn't like their stuff. Oh, well. life's a bitch.

[Mythsaje]

31. I would've preferred them to simply post responses

indicating as much rather than waiting around to shoot people in the back.

[lindisfarne]

32. Except you're not handling those posted responses terribly well either.

There's never going to be a situation where everyone agrees with you, likes you, likes your writing, or whatever.

That's life.

Use DU as a way to bounce about ideas, read about new things, try new ways of writing. Maybe even come up with plot lines.

[Mythsaje]

33. No, I don't expect so...

And who, precisely, am I having all those problems with? Oh, Cali, right? Except, well, Cali has treated me like this from the time I was first made aware of Cali's existence. So there's a history here you know nothing about. But, by all means, keep assuming you do.

[lindisfarne]

36. I'm not just talking about this thread.n/t

[cali]

51. Clearly our exchanges here have made a far greater impression on you than

they have on me. What history? What problems? I can't recall a single exchange I've had with you, truth be told. I haven't been terribly impressed by your writing here, but so what? I haven't posted often in your threads, and I don't take it all personally. Again, you're being overly dramatic.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

71. uh, no. that's exactly your habit.

your op stands as a testament to that. but that hardly makes you a standout here. just another melodramatic, narcissistic person among many.

[omega minimo]

145. Oh as if you're so special and that's not true for everyone

"Except, well, Cali has treated me like this from the time I was first made aware of Cali's existence."

:evilgrin: :hi:

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lindisfarne]

48. Hmm, should I interpret that as a personal attack? It doesn't seem very nice. Just following

the example set here by the OP you're supporting.

[EFerrari]

63. So tell me, where did you train to tell people how well they handle things?

[lindisfarne]

109. Frankly, there are now 3 threads from the past 2 days demonstrating it.It doesn't take much training

to see the obvious. I had ignored the first 2 but spent a little too much time looking at the OP here and could not believe the selfishness of the reason behind objecting to Unrec - being concerned that posts won't get to GP and thus, not getting traffic to one's website?? As others have pointed out, use marketplace for that purpose.
Of course, you willingness to support OP, regardless of behavior, may make you unable to see it.
Some people can separate personal emotions from the debate; others cannot.

[EFerrari]

131. Maybe you were doing something else the thousands of times

that so many of us talked about our own projects here at DU.

[omega minimo]

152. the revered poison ivy league alma mater

"Fuck U"

[cali]

45. shooting people in the back? Oh my. The melodrama intensifies.

[Mythsaje]

55. Opposing someone else's opinions face to face,

even in the anonymous corridors of cyberspace, is a lot harder than just pushing a button to negate their words.

[cali]

73. just for the record, I haven't used that button but twice so far, and not on your thread.

I'm approaching the unrec function in the same way I use the hr feature at kos- though there are many guidelines there that govern said use. I don't like the lack of guidelines re the unrec function. I think people tend to use it in a "personality driven" way.

[omega minimo]

142. that would require

some effort, thought, constructive posting (even if it was to be destructive, it'd have to involve some word choice decisions) when a self-righteous, chickenshit, anonymous, negating, pushbutton approach is so much more satisfying.



Actually, your thread has elicited one of the few honest and fleshed out rationales for liking the Nuke Button. Who knew so many were so worried about a perceived popularity contest? Who knew there were so many here who think THEY they know what the MAJORITY of DU thinks?

[TexasObserver]

60. You are correct, and the news is a shock.

That's why denial is the first line of defense: it's disruptors, it's trolls, it's Freepers, it's haters. Anything but "they don't like my stuff as much as I thought they did."

[BlooInBloo]

114. I have my problems, but thankfully that isn't one of them.

:P

[Maru Kitteh]

29. I'm waiting on pins and needles to find out why FreakRepublic gives a gerbils gonads about your

particular presence on DU. Please explain.

[masuki bance]

39. Good point. I'm interested in finding out how that can be

known. Does this poster have conversations with these people? Are there postings out there on the internet that we can see that show people discussing the relative acceptance of mythsage here at DU? Does he get emails from people poking fun at his social standing here? Why would people "out there" even give a shit?

"One thing I'm pretty sure of right now is that our opposites are having a good chuckle over this whole thing right now. They don't like me very much and that's okay with me. If things go so far as to make DU inhospitable to me, I'm sure they'll take a great deal of pleasure in the outcome."

[cali]

43. One word: Narcissism.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

61. People who disagree wth you are delusional?

And sneaky, too?

lol

[Maru Kitteh]

66. No, that's not what I said at all.

[EFerrari]

68. Well, it's always good to get the official denial. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

79. Case in point: There was a thread yesterday about DK and the deridement of him as of late

most of DU thinks DK is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I don't dislike DK, but he's not in my top five, either. That put me in sharp disagreement with a great chunk of DU. I did and do not in any way believe that the great majority of DU'ers who love DK are delusional. I simply do not agree with them.

Thinking all of FreakR will take notice and collective joy of any one of our "regular" members departure is delusion.


There ya go.

[EFerrari]

83. Having been on the receiving end of the little freaks obsession with DU

I have to disagree with you. There ya go.

[cali]

88. I've also been discussed on freeperville in a less than kind way? who gives a hoot?

I mean really, why should anyone be concerned with that?

[EFerrari]

91. You're not concerned with it, why should anyone else be --

is that your question?

And are you really asking ME that question?

I think I have to stop talking to you for tonight. Buenas.

[cali]

95. No. That's not my question. My question is why would anyone waste any time worrying

about what freepers say about them?

[EFerrari]

65. You really don't know the difference between sharing

and narcissism. That's sad in so many ways.

[cali]

76. um, someone who posts OP after OP about himself and

does the GBCW thing repeatedly, is mired in narcissism. It's rather clear that it's you who fails to distinguish this sometimes fine line. I don't particularly find that sad, but predictable. And the expression of faux sadness is predictably sanctimonious.

[EFerrari]

80. There is no fine line between narcissism and sharing.

They are two entirely different realms. And confusing them would make most simple relational gestures sadly difficult. Broadcasting that confusion, even more so.

[cali]

85. my dear, that's merely an opinion, not a fact.

and narcissists tend to think that they're sharing when all they're doing is being self-absorbed. What the OP is doing is clearly not just sharing- it's consistently me, me, and more me with very little sharing and no understanding or attempt to understand a viewpoint that differs from his.

[EFerrari]

89. No, actually, it is a fact. Sharing and narcissism are very different.

operations with different objects and different aims.

[cali]

90. and my comment that the line between sharing (information about oneself)

can be a fine one, doesn't dispute that there is a difference between sharing and narcissism. but leave it to you to twist someone's words.

[EFerrari]

92. I'm not twisting anything. I'm saying that you are pathologizing

what is normal discourse between friends that share information. That speaks to your situation, not to the OPs.

[cali]

94. uh, no. you said I stated something that I did not. Furthermore

repeated GBCW OPs followed by returns after brief absences are odd and can reasonably be interpreted as grandstanding. Furthermore, posting on DU is not a conversation or discourse between friends- though the poster may have friends among those who post and read hear. You are mistaking an internet forum for a conversation among friends. It's really quite different. And what situation of mine are you speaking to? Do feel free to spit it out.

[EFerrari]

130. I'm glad I don't post on the same forum that you do. n/t

[Mythsaje]

64. If you tend to post inflammatory shit

you can find some interesting stuff if you go searching your screen name.

[Maru Kitteh]

69. Your post claims FreakR as an entity will take great pleasure if/when you leave DU

So. They must spend like - an incredible amount of time and energy - worrying about you. Following you. Thinking about you.

{b}One thing I'm pretty sure of right now is that our opposites are having a good chuckle over this whole thing right now. They don't like me very much and that's okay with me. If things go so far as to make DU inhospitable to me, I'm sure they'll take a great deal of pleasure in the outcome.{b/}




According to you, anyway.

[Mythsaje]

70. They'll take great pleasure in any known DUer

doing the same. Not just me. They laughed their asses off when Will Pitt did it. Nance never has, but they'd be whopping it up then too.

Yeah, they enjoy that kind of thing immensely.

[cali]

72. are you kidding? your self-importance is boundless.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

77. I don't hate you at all. And amusingly your viciousness toward me

entirely escapes your vaunted powers observation. Nor have I said your mentally ill. Haven't even thought it. Narcissism is not necessarily a mental illness. YOU on the other hand, just clearly stated that I'm mentally ill. Can you spell hypocrisy as well as embody it?

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maru Kitteh]

82. It must be such a burden, to be as great and well-known as you.

I should probably feel sorry for you or something? I don't know. It's just so hard to keep up with all the

Very Important People

on Du lately.

[lindisfarne]

108. +1

[Obamanaut]

123. And do people really care about, or give credence to, anything over there?

[JeffR]

42. Saje, I'll tell you what.

Your posts have consistently been one of the best things about this site for a long time.

I appreciate a lot of the arguments against the unrec feature, including yours, but ultimately I think it will either end up being scrapped or everyone will get used to it and its existence won't be a matter of comment anymore.

But I do feel DU has been lacking something important during your sometime absences. So don't even invoke GBCW posts here. In a karmic sense, that's bad for me right now.

[Control-Z]

81. GBCW??

What's that?

[JeffR]

87. Good Bye Cruel World posts

sometimes indulged in by posters far less valuable and important than the OP.

[Control-Z]

96. Aha!

Guess I should have known that, or guessed it. It happens enough!

[shanine]

84. +1

"Your posts have consistently been one of the best things about this site for a long time."

"But I do feel DU has been lacking something important during your sometime absences."

I wholeheartedly agree!

[Blue_In_AK]

151. I agree, JeffR

[zeemike]

78. Well you have not lost any respect in my eyes.

And in fact you are the poster child for the point I have tried to make that the recommend function is a reward for a good post.
In your case the reward has a tangible benefit that is obvious and not at all in my mind a negative thing...but to others it may just make them feel good to get on the greatest page...and I see noting wrong with making people feel good about themselves.

Reward is a good thing and it has a positive effect...now you introduce the Unrecommended and it gives anyone a tool to introduce negativity into the system because it can take away that reward for any reason even if it is a stupid one.
And so I will recommend this post only to have someone unrecommended it and deny me the opportunity to reward you for a thoughtful post.
And in fact when I hit the R button you were at +4 and by the time I clicked back you were at +3 so I never even got to register it before someone took it away.

[jimshoes]

98. I can see where the un rec feature is going to shut out

certain posters from the greatest page. Time will sort this thing out eventually. Maybe limiting the rec - unrec to people that actually respond to the post. :shrug:

[Bluenorthwest]

103. Certain minority groups as well

and unpopular opinions. In the business I come from such a feature would be disaster. Maybe it will work here but I do not see how.
This allows cliques to solidify and swarm upon the minorities they do not like, as they already have done here for ages. The worst will rule, the best will vanish, and new ideas will take even longer to bring forward. Difficult or nuanced subject matters become impossible, as the folks who can not digest them will not want to see them.
Maybe I'm wrong. But those who like it should watch only the most popular of newscasts, for a week, and see if they want an 'unrec' button on Countdown.

[spoony]

100. I think some rather unfairly singled that point out

so they could proceed to accuse your opposition to unrec being self-serving. What people outside of publishing may not get is that writers nowadays don't simply write. We're told over and over by our industry that we have to also be part pitchman, part PR person, part promoter, and this is even if you have an agent!

[SidDithers]

101. I thought you stormed off in a huff earlier this week...

How can we miss you if you won't leave?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6024378

Sid

[NeedleCast]

104. LOL

No one will take your hyperbolic threats to leave seriously if you don't follow through.

I can't decide what's funnier, your incredible ego or your fear that said ego will be burst via application of the un-recommend button.

[Obamanaut]

105. So, returning to the midst of the irritant eases the irritation in some way ?

Sorta like poking a stick in a nest because one is allergic to bees?

[ecstatic]

106. Take a deep breath...

and let it go. :)

[redqueen]

107. Wow.

Just wow.

[seabeyond]

111. now I'm too irritated to stay away.... bah hahahah. lol not that i

know what the fuck is up. lol. saw your bye, saw your back, now this. you are

sooooo

cute

whatever your rant may be. quick break for coffee. outside workin with hubby. he is washing car. cant sit in here on the net chattin. how not fair that would be

good luck

[eleny]

112. I still think it's a crummy "feature"

Features that are worthwhile are recognized as such very quickly. This one invites trouble. I think it's pretty uncomfortable not knowing who anonymously unrec'd a posting. So I don't think it brings out the best in DU.

[BlooInBloo]

113. I wish you luck selling your books. How is using DU for free advertising working?

[EFerrari]

143. People have ALWAYS talked about their businesses at DU.

We've ALWAYS networked up a storm here. I can probably name, just off the top of my head, 25 DUers who are small business owners or organizers or craftspeople or artists and I can do that because they've posted about their projects here.

Slamming Saje for that is just asinine.

[BlooInBloo]

147. And I wish him all luck. Hell - I might just go buy a book for the hell of it.

[EFerrari]

149. The thing I hate about this particular bit of stupidity

is that part of the coolness of DU is that people DO talk about their projects here and sometimes, before they talk about them anywhere else.

Do we really want to lose that? It's not like these DUers are spamming anti-wrinkle cream ads all over the board. I've seen nothing from regular DUers but a lot of respect for that rule of Skinner's.

[BlooInBloo]

150. I'm pretty sure unrec will not prevent people from talking about their own projects.

[EFerrari]

154. No, but this mindless slamming of Saje may. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

155. I'm pretty sure it won't, either.

[rucky]

115. You've traded in your shovel for a backhoe.

You should listen to your instincts and cool-off for awhile.

[Uzybone]

120. unrecced, too much drama

it is just a message board. Get some perspective.

[Iggo]

121. Aw, poor baby.

Take a break. You'll feel better.

[JVS]

122. Is this your final thread on the topic?

[cali]

133. my 8 ball says: "No Way."

[marmar]

126. This is longer than the Cher goodbye tour......

:)

[Confusious]

156. +1 laugh snort n/t

[lpbk2713]

128. Are you still here?

:shrug:

[LWolf]

132. I know you're not here to sell books.

I know because the only thread, in YEARS, I've ever seen you post about a book of yours was in a book-related forum, and it did not encourage anyone to buy it.

It's a funny thing, to me: when I arrived at DU almost 7 years ago, I was quite moderate by DU standards. Now I'm the "loony left," according to more than one DUer, yet I haven't changed my political stances at all.

Don't leave. Just don't think you are here chatting among friends. Some, yes. As a whole? Not hardly.

Lone Wolf that I've always been, cyber-bullying on a discussion board doesn't move me. I guess I've got thick fur, lol.

I do appreciate those who engage me in conversation to disagree, and to debate, with courtesy. They are here.

My un-asked for advice: take a deep breath, and don't let anyone here get to you.

:hi:

[inna]

136. K&R. with sadness, because it won't matter. :( NT

[OhioChick]

140. Same here. n/t

[madfloridian]

144. I sent you a PM. Hang in there.

Don't the ugly posts get you down.

[madfloridian]

146. I recommended your rant, but it doesn't show up.

[inna]

157. jesus christ!! i CANNOT believe that Skinner chose to go ahead with this monstrosity.

this might be the end of the Democratic *UNDERGROUND*, as we know it.



Skinner, please do reconsider.