This Is What Happens When You Get Cancer in America / And in France

[Better Believe It]

This Is What Happens When You Get Cancer in America
by Natasha Chart
Alternet
July 9, 2009

This is what happens when you get cancer in America:

... If you worked for a company that offered insurance, if you carried your family's insurance, next year your insurer would slap a million dollar surcharge on the company policy for carrying a leukemia patient. The company would get the bill and someone in accounting would question "what is this extra million dollars we are being billed?"

The insurance company would explain to them that the million is for you, and it is yearly, but is, ahem, "fixable." They will say "as long as she is on your insurance (wink, wink) this charge will be there. So what you have to ask yourself (more wink, wink) is whether this employee is worth a million dollar a year salary on top of what you are already paying her."

... "So in a year or so of this, you will not just be uninsurable, you will also be unemployable." ...


This is what happens when you get cancer in France:

... He was first diagnosed by our pediatrician, a private sector doctor, who sent us to the (public) specialised pediatric hospital in Paris for additional exams. We did a scan and a MRI the same day, and that brought the diagnosis we know. He was hospitalised the same day, with surgery immediately scheduled for two days later. At that point, we only had to provide our social security number.

... Meetings with the doctor in charge of his long term treatment, and with a specialised re-education hospital, were immediately set up, and chemiotherapy and physical therapy were scheduled for the next full year.

... My wife pretty much stopped working to take my son to the hospital every day (either for reeducation or treatment) - and was allocated a stipend by the government as caregiver, for a full year (equal to just under the minimum wage). Had we needed it, transport by ambulance would have been taken care of, free of charge for us (as it were, car commutes to the hospital could also be reimbursed). ...

Any questions?

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/healthwellness/141205/this_is_what_happens_when_you_get_cancer_in_america/

[anonymous171]

1. France =/= America

We can't just emulate France. We need to create our own system that specifically tailors to Americans' needs.

[KansDem]

3. "We need to create our own system that specifically tailors to Americans' needs."

Please enlighten me. I'm all eyes...

[Hutzpa]

83. Does that mean letting the Insurance company

dictate how we pay for health care(?) :shrug:


just wondering.....

[rfranklin]

5. Why can we not emulate a system that works?

No, instead we can prop up a system that works only for a certain percentage of the population but mostly for the insurance companies which, other than creating jobs for their workers, do nothing constructive.

[mamaleah]

50. I think he should have been a little more descriptive, but I still get it a bit.

Yes, we should emulate the more enlightened nations. But we also have to look at parts we might not be too comfy with. France, Germany, Sweden, Australia.....they all have what some might consider almost cruel immigration policies. That is, they really don't want anyone coming on in unless said potential immigrant has a needed skill. That makes it easier for the government to take care of the people.

I would love to have a better health care system and I think we will soon. But we might need to change many more things to help that along. higher taxes in smart areas, insurance company spankings or a smackdown, and yes......a tightening of the border.

[Javaman]

67. Then that's an immigration issue not a health care issue.

so, again, how is the French system not applicable to the US?

[Hutzpa]

84. What has any of that has to do with

health care(?) Tell me....

[mamaleah]

88. If you want to emulate

a country, you have to look at all the reasons they might be doing a lot better than your own.

[Hutzpa]

90. Thats like saying Mexicans are

responsible for job loss, see where I'm going with that.

Immigration has nothing to do with health care, lets not
get it twisted.

[mamaleah]

92. I think it has as much to do with having a decent system as a more progressive system of taxation

does.

You need to have both!

[Horse with no Name]

10. Americans do not have the market cornered on intelligence

There are other countries who have their shit together that we could learn alot from.

[FormerDittoHead]

12. Yes! We pay more than France. We deserve a system that delivers BETTER service than this! n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Do the French get sick differently than Americans?

Just what is the difference you postulate?

[abumbyanyothername]

32. It is possible that sickness in France is different because

they eat food.

Americans, for the vast most part, don't.

[troubledamerican]

40. Some may read you as sarcastic. However there's (inadvertant?) truth

in your remarks.

If you're being serious, regarding processed foods, Frankenfoods, and standards of quality, then I defer to your remarks.

If not, just one example: Friends from around the world but especially Europe and specifically France tell me that U.S. chicken tastes like shit. Two U.S. expat friends have related to me that in France, slaughtered chickens are required to be washed using potable water. Whereas in the U.S. chicken carcasses are soaked in chlorine.

[abumbyanyothername]

41. That was the point.

Sorry to be so obscure.

[DesertDiamond]

63. Read you loud and clear. We need a system comparable to France, but France also eats healthier

More fruits and vegetables, and they are mostly organic, to the point they don't even need to be labeled organic. It's a lot more expensive to take care of a society that is struggling for health in an environment dominated by toxic, and often fake, food.

[Enthusiast]

99. They eat plenty of fat but

it is natural and not created in a industrial laboratory.

[troubledamerican]

73. Sorry, I'm braced for nothing but snark on DU, I sometimes misread.

[Fedja]

45. US chicken is surreal

All in all, there's one upside to US food, and that's a good ole low-tech Texan steak. Everything else is more likely to qualify as building material. :)

[Prophet 451]

53. And everything is so damn sweet!

I'm British but I've visited the States and have American friends who send me stuff sometimes. And don't get me wrong, Brits eat crap too but eating in the States is a weird adventure in mediocrity. Chocolate? Go get a Hershey bar, get a bar of Cadburys and I guarentee you prefer the Cadbury. Cheese? This is cheese? Fast food is fun, even the damn mayo is sweetened. The chicken does taste like crap too.

That said, I did discover that the old joke about American beer (Q: What do American beer and making love in a canoe have in common? A: They're both fucking close to water) is untrue. America produces some very fine beers. You just keep them for yourselves and export the crap stuff.

[troubledamerican]

75. Fascinating. Thanks.

[AllyCat]

86. Chocolate...even Lindt here is flavored with articifical garbage

You almost have to buy organic chocolate bars to get anything that isn't wax or artificial

[Grinchie]

55. Yo are right, the US Processors refused to use Potable Water

And Russia said, thanks, but no thanks.

You comment about Chickens soaked in chlorine is much too kind... The chickens hang on a very fast conveyor belt are immersed into a trough of water mixed with chlorine. The carasses are rinsed as they are dragged down the trough for 10 to 20 feet, but in reality, nobody is ever allowed to film in side a checken prcessing warehouse. Ever. The only film you'll ever get to see is many years old, and even then is is "Sanitized" for teh sake of not scaring people away.

This water is reused for hundreds or thousands of birds, and is a mixture of blood, fathers, feces, chicken parts and anything else you can imagine.

We used call all mass produced chicken "Fecal Bath" chicken, in honor of this technique, but now, we just wash the hell out of the chicken on the rare occasion we by it, which has been quite a long time now.

The last barbequed chicken I had was pretty awful. The bird was obscenely fat, and to imagine the live bird, and what it would look like boggled the imagination. But Food Inc. has a good seen that shows a normal chicken and a Broiler side by side in time lapse., and it wasn't pretty. The meat was mealy and spongy, and it had a taste resembling wet tissue paper.

So what else is wrong with Chicken? Well, in March this year, over 1 million chickens were destroyed in texas due to a viral outbreak. Interesting story I thought, but when I read through the article, it stated that the USDA did not consider the virus harmful to human health, and the birds were allowed into the food supply. Yummy. This virus from the family Herpesviiridae which has many subspecies, and infects Cow, Chicken, Human, Monkey, Swine, Horse.. etc etc..

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/41625707.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpesviridae (This will scare you if you have just now learned the Pleiomorphism is a real Phenomenon, despite what the Louis Pasteur school of MicroBiology has asserted for the past 70 years)

The moral of the story is to watch out for Chicken being offered at "Sale" prices. Or better yet, grow your own chickens.. They are actually quite intelligent birds, and fun to keep around. The hardest part is keeping them safe from dogs left to run loose by careless owners. I don't keep dogs, since they are to expensive to maintain, and I don't think I could slaughter and eat one like the indians did.

Chickens, no problem.

[troubledamerican]

74. OK, now you've scared me

Herpes? Pleiomorphism?

[Grinchie]

91. My Spelling was off, it is Pleomorphism

The Wiki page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleomorphism does not do the current state of knowledge regarding Pleomorphism justice.

It was discovered in the 30's and 40's that bacteria a virii will change for depending on environmental conditions. This is called adapatation, and this knowledge has been suppressed by the branch of science that subscribes to Monomorphism, meaning that bacteria a Virii are distinct organisms, cannot change their shape or form.

This is not the case. bacteria a virri can and will change their structure depending upon environmentmental conditions or life cycle.

The following is a good descrition of the issue:

The officials and public of the era were ripe for a simple and direct explanation from the emerging world of the Natural Sciences for these tragic and decimating diseases. However, at the time Pasteur was formulating and publicizing his work, a quiet, much more qualified and experienced researcher, Pierre Bechamp, was also looking at the new frontier-world of microbes, and came up with a more complex, but thorough, understanding of these miniature marvels.

He identified a fundamental unit of microbiological life, named the ‘microzyma’, which he said was critical in supporting the life of cells, but could be triggered into pathogenic states, depending on specific changes in the state of the internal (particularly the blood) environment. Therefore, the bacteria and other micro-organisms; viruses and fungi, that were being blamed as the cause of disease, were viewed by Bechamp as being part of Nature’s ‘clean-up crew’, breaking down sick tissue and ultimately decomposing a no-longer-occupied body. Bechamp also viewed these micro-organisms as ‘changing forms’ (pleomorphic): from seed to bacterial, viral and fungal states, rather than being seen as discrete species unto themselves.

Once these bugs have done the job, they revert to the ‘seed’ stage once again ready to support new life. The very ground we stand on is teeming with these fundamental biological units. I once saw a video of a microzma expiring and emitting a photon of light in the process. Perhaps these units represent the transitional point where Light becomes living Matter.

The consciousness of the era, however, was, as noted, looking for a simpler, more linear explanation for disease, and as Pasteur was more of a PR man than Bechamp, he won the recognition of academia and society. Also, the simplistic notion of ‘kill the bug, cure the disease’ was very appealing for the emerging Pharmaceutical trade, and continues to provide a major illusion in support of one of the newest ‘plagues’, the overuse of antibiotics.

Pasteur’s conscience, however, moved him to say on his deathbed, “Bechamp was right!”. As Bill Nelson, developer of the QXCI machine likes to say, "the Germ theory proposes you get rid of the flies, while it makes more sense to clean up the garbage attracting them."

I found the paragraph above at random, and it is new to me, but I have heard the story before. Additionally, the scientific literature of Royal Rife, the man who discovered the Electromagnetic radiation tuned to a certain frequency would destroy pathogens described pleomorphism, and was purportedly able to view the different stages of the cancer organism. Rife developed an amazing microscope that was reported to have allowed magnification of up to 10,000X, and he was able to view live Cancer viruses. Another physician, Dr. Weston Price, discovered the poorly sterilized root canals would become the source for focal infections that spread to various organs of the body. The normally benign Steptococcus Fecalis that is in the mouth, would undergoe a transformation into a highly toxic organisms when trapped in the low oxygen environment of the mouth., and later on Wilhelm Reich, whose research led him to discover the Bion, which is described in the bechamp article aboved, which I find most interesting. Reichs Bions are equivalent to Bechamps Mycrozyma.

This knowledge shoots a great number of holes in the mechanistic approach to disease and pharmacology, and has been suppressed whenever it appears in independant research over the years.

It is quite humorous that we have the Nanotechnologists using Atomic Force Microscopy, which enables them to manipulate individual atoms, but they have supposedly not been able to duplicate what Royal Rife did using Quartz Crystal Prisms, polarized light, and darkfield Microscopy. Rife was able to see the Live cancer virus, while the modern literature always examines the dead cancer cell, because electron microscopy is lethal to living organisms...

Anyway, don't be scared, but do be informed. The more you learn, the farther it will take you until you finally arrive at the stage where you can proetect yourself and your family, without living in ignorance and fear like the majority of Americans. The U.S. Food system has been hijacked by the most evil of people, and they would feed you live shit if they could get away with it, but they are getting pretty darn close to be able to do just that, and very soon.

Can you believe that my interests in these processes started by attempting to learn more about the science behind Tesla and Stan Meyer's Water Fuel Cell? Which led to chemistry, to electronics, to atomic theory, to molecular biology? Three years of constant study, and I still have a long way to go, but it is very rewarding. Good luck to you and your search for knowledge.

Another interesting study http://www.campylobacterblog.com/2006/04/articles/campylobacter-watch/stress-may-help-campylobacter-infect-broilers/
or this one which is truly disgusting from 2005 http://www.all-creatures.org/health/superbugs-camp.html.

Don't even get me started on irradiation if you think the Fecal Bath chicken dip mentioned in the post above is demonic and inhuman.

[AllyCat]

85. Hahaha!! I shouldn't be laughing, but that is so true.

When you do eat real FOOD here, people think it's either gross, or quaint, or both.

[lindisfarne]

38. See this article

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=12683

[tinrobot]

19. Cancer is different in France?

I was under the impression that the only difference was that the French get treatment and we get screwed.

[gleaner]

25. Will "our own system" keep us alive ....

Our current system isn't up to it. My husband's mother has a rare form of cancer that is wrapping around her esophagus and metastasizing throughout her lungs, neck and eventually her brain. She has difficulty swallowing and is in constant pain. She has to measure her life expectancy in days, weeks and months. She can't count on more time than that.

What is her HMO doing? Not much. They said surgery to remove the tumor when it was initially discovered months ago was not possible. They said they could not use radiation. Instead they gave her an old chemotherapy drug that is not effective on the type of cancer she has, because they have to "cut costs". (Read increase profits.) The chemo drug was toxic to her. She nearly died from taking it. Her blood values dropped across the board and it took two weeks in the hospital to get her white count up to the point where she had an immune system. Now the HMO is putting off any more treatment for her at all. She is desperate. She is dying and she knows it.

I just want to ask while you are expressing concerns about "our own system," if you have ever sat across the table from a loved one and held her hand while she told you, "I'm afraid to die. Please don't let me die alone." There is nothing like it except for watching your husband almost die because he has a rare illness and his insurance company does not want to pay for a full recovery. In that case I was lucky because the non profit hospital intervened and helped him. Now, right off his own illness he is watching his mother die because her for profit HMO decided at some point that her life was not worth saving. This is our own system. We need something much better. I don't care who we emulate. I want people like my mother in law to have a chance.

As I sat and tried to comfort her, seeing all the while how emaciated she is, covered with bruises which appear spontaneously and with no hair from her botched chemo, I realized that aside from love and my promises that she will not die alone I don't have anything else to offer that will help her live. How did we get here? We are in a place where corporate entities are deciding who is fit to live and die based on their profit margins. It is time for something new and different, and really, what does it matter where it comes from if it gets us out of the mare's nest that greed stuck us into?

[reggie the dog]

28. I am American by birth

and have the French nationality now. The health system here works fine for me. It could work fine in the USA too.

[Fedja]

44. Really?

How about you emulate Germany? Or Sweden... Or Italy... Or Slovenia... Or Romania...

Here's what you have in common with them. You have people, they have people. People get sick. You have hospitals and doctors, as do they.

It's not rocket surgery.

[snake in the grass]

48. Help me out here.

I studied medicine and worked in Germany. In all the years of study I put behind me, and even the studying I continue to do, I've never read that the American form of cancer is more pernicious and demands a different avenue of treatment. Just what needs to be tailored here? The French simply do it better and we need to get off our fucking nationalist high horse and make this happen. Americans need access to medical treatment. Period.

[snappyturtle]

82. You nailed it for me. I tried just last week to get a doctor's appointment

for my husband as a new patient. I got the names of only three doctors in the area accepting new patients from the hospital. Used to be the first question asked after trying to make an appointment was, "What do you need to see the doctor about?" Now, it's, "Do you have insurance?" The next step is to drop by the doctor's office and pick up a medical history form, then fill it out and return and in a couple of days we would know whether we could be a new patient!

If all of that wasn't enough, I was told by one if not all three offices variations of the following: We aren't accepting patients over 50; we don't accept Medicare of Medicaid and we would have to pre-pay our office visits. I gave up and went to the Walgreen pharmacist and got an OTC med for hubby.....$3.39 and it's working! Problem is...we're still without a doctor. We're new to the area....hubby lived here some time ago and had a doctor who has since retired..or moved or whatever..gone. When I mentioned to the office staff persons that it's no wonder people use ERs, I was met with silence.

[snake in the grass]

93. It burns me up...

...when I hear that universal health care doesn't work, because I've seen it work. I studied medicine in Germany for free and worked in the health field for many years. It works and there's no getting around that fact. Conservatives conjure up images of dark, dirty, overfilled waiting rooms full of suffering, moaning people, who wait for hours on end for mediocre treatment, and that is simply not the reality. Anyone who claims this is the case is either grossly misinformed or an outright liar.

[snappyturtle]

104. I'm glad you're speaking out. Wish you were on national teevee.

I was in Zermatt,Switzerland in the mid 70's and damaged cartilage while skiing in my left knee. My knee swelled up like a balloon and everyone said to go the clinic. So, I did...I had to. I am still amazed to this day that my treatment was so good with daily treatments that the orthopedic surgeon I saw when I got home was most interested in what the Swiss docs had done but the best of all, I could not pay them one dime. Matter-of-fact, the clinic people looked at me like I was nuts suggesting they take money! I kept thinking I'd get a huge bill or that we had lost something in the french/german dialect bantering back and forth...but no. Same thing happened to my brother in Stockholm while studying when he was in college. Had an appendectomy...free! We both had wonderful care and I'm forever grateful.

[TommyO]

61. What needs do we have that the French do not?

Do we get sick differently?

Are our cancers more virulent then French cancers?
Do American parents not need time off to care for their children that are suffering from cancer?

[Javaman]

66. yeah, because, you know, those French people get sick differently from us...

:eyes:

Stop being a tool of the insurance corp, okay?

It's getting really old and worn out.

[warren pease]

77. That's what we have now...

Americans think they need free markets, laisse faire capitalism and profits uber alles. The current system is specifically designed to perpetuate and reward that delusion, while making sure people's real medical needs never intrude on the overwhelming institutional and cultural mandate to turn a buck -- and another, and another, and another...


sf

[tavalon]

79. ?

Why, because they speak a different language? What exactly is different in our needs? The only difference I see is that their needs are being met and ours are not.

[Enthusiast]

97. We could emulate it to a T

and it would be a vast improvement over what we now have. I'll trade our system for Canada's or any of Europe right now with no changes and results would be a tremendous improvement. Only the insurance vultures would suffer.

[JVS]

98. Is one of America's needs to keep a bloated insurance industry alive on our blood?

[Horse with no Name]

2. I was told this by someone who worked in the insurance industry

they base the rates on the employee who has the highest medical bills.
Reminds me of a Roman coliseum.

[Grinchie]

57. Reminds me of GEICO

The American health insurance uses the Auto Insurance model for conjuring up it's rates. The most risk get clobbered, just like teenage years driver.

It has long since abandoned Social Insurance, where all pay the same premium and covers the less fortunate by shear numbers of premiums, because not everyone needs a lot of healthcare.

Unless of course, you are a Corporation that demands 10% growth every quarter, and have worked hard to ensure a steady stream of Cash Flow for the Pharmaceutical Company, who own sock in the chemical companys, that create the GMO seeds that slowly poison the eaters of that food slowly, inexorably, but not too fast.

The Social Insurnace model would immediately collapse, and there would be much investment at rooting out the cause for 1/5 americans coming down with Diabetes. Not just type 2 as a Child, but also Type 1 in mid life.

There would be no tolerance for Chronic diseases with the Social Insurance, and hard money would be spent on the search for a cure. Sadly, a cure conflicts with Capitalism, and the Politicians/Corporations know this.

[DrDan]

4. sure - but what about the profits? Who made the profits?

How did the investors do?

Focus on the priorities!

[DFW]

6. I had a cardiac scare 5 years ago, and my wife had cancer 8 years ago

A real near-miss situation. Now, although I have had no problem since, my employer can't get
life insurance for me, and our health insurance refused all my treatments here in Germany at
first, even after admitting the bills from the German clinic that saved my life were a third
of what the same treatment would have cost in the USA.

As for Germany, from whence my wife hails (and works, as I am over here most of the time), when
she was diagnosed with cancer, two operations were needed (one month hospitalization), then chemo
for 2 months, then radiation for 6 weeks, and then (how's THIS for full care?) a month's stay
at a rehab spa for breast and thyroid cancer patients, with aquatic exercise, hikes in the woods,
other indoor exercising and baths to build up muscles and massage them, etc. She has been in full
remission ever since the rehab spa released her in November, 2001. German health insurance even
paid for her train fare down to the rehab spa, as we live in the Rheinland, and it was down in
the Black Forest.

Now German taxes are pretty high (compared to the USA), but at least you get something for them,
and they are nowhere near the confiscatory levels of some other European countries. My wife had to
pay a supplement of exactly zero for her cancer treatment, other than what I spent in gas to drive
her to her chemo treatments in Düsseldorf and back.

It may be too late for America to ever restructure its health insurance system to allow for a majority
of its citizens to enjoy coverage like my wife has. It's certainly not too late to wish or dream, though.

[BR_Parkway]

15. I'm curious about the higher taxes - my brother is in Germany

and we compared them once - once all the state/local/medicare/medicaid/federal withholding plus all the sales taxes, gasoline/alcohol/cigarette taxes were added in - I was spending as much for way less than he was.

I'm curious how much it's changed since we talked about it about 9-10 years ago.

[DFW]

27. All those "other" taxes are here too, except for state income

Property tax is not as bad, but sales taxes are 19% and the gasoline tax not only is huge, but they now tack sales tax onto not only the gasoline, but they add sales tax onto the gasoline tax as well! You pay tax on the tax. I asked a judge on the tax court here about the legality of that, and he said until some challenge is mounted against it, with some great legal arguments, it will stand. They also have the "soli," the "solidarity tax" that western Germans pay to help rebuild the east. You'd think that after 20 years, they would have gotten rid of this, if for no other reason than to dampen resentment of easterners. But so far, it's still there. My friends back in Texas who make comparable salaries to mine take home WAY more than I do in purchasing power, and I'm paid back there in dollars, so my take home is theoretically no different. But with the exchange rate plus all the tacked-on taxes here, we live on a lot lower scale.

I don't do alcohol or nicotine, so I have no clue as to how big a bite those taxes are, but they must be pretty hefty. My wife is a social worker here, and most of her "clients" are always broke because they are addicted to nicotine or alcohol or both, and after satisfying their addictions, don't have enough to eat or take the bus to work (if they can find any!) about three quarters into the month. They will go hungry before they give up their cigarettes or alcohol. My wife sometimes buys bread and sandwich-making stuff out of her own pocket towards then end of every month, and says she has seen piranhas in an aquarium that were less ferocious in consuming food.

[Doremus]

29. "German taxes are pretty high"

Are they $1000 per month over and above your 35% (or more) federal, state and local income tax bill?

That's what I pay and if, God forbid, I get cancer my insurance company is going to run every charge through the electron microscope and veto every cent that's out of place.

[DFW]

69. If my paycheck were taxed in Germany:

It would be at somewhere near 60% of my gross income, so yeah, it would be WAY
more than $12000 above my current tax bill in the States, which is indeed somewhere
around 35%.

My heart thing was a one-off emergency, and could be easily handled here in Germany.
If I were to come down with cancer, or something else requiring long-term care, I
would probably have to return Stateside, give up my post here as Station Chief for
Europe, and be threatened with a desk job (a desk job! Now THAT'S what I call a
life-threatening illness!).

[lakeguy]

72. if you would have paid 60% of your gross income

you are making a lot of money.

[DFW]

95. It doesn't take a fortune to reach that level in Germany

But in Texas, it wouldn't be a poverty case, granted. When most of my bills are in Euros,
though, you practically have to divide by 2 when calculating purchasing power.

[sailor65]

7. Questionable anecdote at best

We've had 3 of our engineers over the last 2 years treated for various cancers (All of whom still work for us and still receive treatment), and no such behavior from BCBS.

[supernova]

13. Questionable anecdote at best

How much have your company premiums gone up?

[tinrobot]

20. Read the original story

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/7/751100/-How-I-lost-my-health-insurance-at-the-hairstylists

Hardly an anectdote.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

8. I think that basic healthcare

especially when it involves intervention for potentially life-threatening conditions should be seen as a basic governmental function for the public welfare, such as military protection, primary education, fire and police protection, a court system, a prison system, etc. I would rather pay taxes for healthcare than to pay insurance premiums or to receive less salary but benefits from my employer when a private insurer is involved, that has the power of life or death in exercising its right to deny claims.

I wonder just how bad things will have to get, how many people will have to die and how many will lose their jobs before something gets done. Over the years, I keep hearing lots of talk about healthcare reform. I just don't feel any momentum building right now towards finally getting something done.

[LuvNewcastle]

11. +1

[abumbyanyothername]

33. +1 Although part of the bargain ought to be

at least some strenuous education on the human body, how the human digestive system works, how the SAD (standard American diet) way most people eat is the equivalent poisoning yourself on purpose, etc.

Of course if we cut the profit out of food and medicine can banking and energy be far behind?

[lob1]

9. They always ask how we're going to pay for it.

Well, take out the profit the insurance companies make, and that'll be a big hunk of it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Exactly - they always seem to posit that the expenses of the system will

be added to all our current expenses, when actually the majority of current expenses would vanish under a single-payer system -- no payments for the CEO's yacht, the multi-million dollar ad campaigns, the shareholder profits.

[destes]

47. .............congressional bribes to maintain the status quo

[mudplanet]

71. And no $1.5 million a DAY to bribe our congressmen

[Gogi]

17. I am disabled and have medicare + United Healthcare/AARP Secure Horizons coverage...

I pay a $15.00 copay per doctor visit, $4.00 per prescription for generic drugs, and a $60.00 per therapist visit copay. Fortunately the therapist is on an as needed basis. I get my annual mammogram, a bone density test and blood work done at my convenience next week. Tommorrow my father, who is on straight Medicare, goes for his followup exam for bladder cancer. His cost will be less than mine would be with United Healthcare etc. but I don't have to worry that my docs will decide to stop accepting Medicare patients plus they're all in one building just down the street.
Even with copays I am happy with my medical care and my father, who has had two types of cancer plus a hip replacement, is happy with his. Yes, we can do like other countries we just need to stand up and demand it.

[Holly_Hobby]

21. Not to be nosy, just curious, my husband is nearing retirement

How much is the supplemental United Healthcare?

[Gogi]

23. If you're on Medicare...

there is no monthly fee. If you aren't on Medicare it is $300.00 a month. This is what bugs me about all this handwringing over can we do it or not. To paraphrase Lewis Black, "If you need help understanding, there are Medicare recipients among you". Now SS takes so much out of your SS check because you have to sign up for both Part A and Part B Medicare coverage but that's not $300.00 a month!

[Holly_Hobby]

36. Thank you! n/t

[csziggy]

18. Here's how it worked for my BIL who worked for the "happiest place on the earth"

After years of abdominal pains, multitudes of tests with indeterminate results, and a visit to the emergency room with horrendous pain, he was diagnosed with Stage 4 pancreatic cancer - non-operable. The original prognosis from the emergency room doctor was 3-4 months to live. Fortunately, the oncologists gave him a longer prognosis with aggressive chemotherapy.

The chemo made him very ill, but if he did not work at least a minimum number of hours a week, he would be 'let go' and his insurance would lapse, meaning no care or care that would cost him family everything. This was a man who had given up a successful small business as a custom cabinet maker so that he could get insurance to cover his wife and four children - no private or small business company would cover his asthmatic youngest son for any kind of reasonable rate.

So he closed his business that he loved, took an overall cut in pay to work for a large entertainment company in order to provide insurance for his kids. And when he got sick, he had to hoard his sick leave, vacation time and unpaid administrative leave to make sure he would have enough hours on the clock every pay period to keep that insurance that was now a lifeline.

He scheduled four day work weeks, got hid chemo every Thursday so he would be sick over the three day weekend and be able to get into the office on Monday. His children's memories of his last year are of him constantly tired and sick. They could not schedule any time for a last family vacation because all his time had to be meted out to keep the insurance going up to the very end.

He was diagnosed just before Thanksgiving 2005. His last day of work was in March 2007. He had stopped the chemo - it was no longer shrinking the tumors and he no longer had the strength to fight. The family went out to dinner - he couldn't eat but he could enjoy the company of his wife, children and his parents. The next day he could not hold down food or liquids, the following day his wife took him back to the emergency room, where they were told it was a matter of days or hours.

She took him home and he died on his wife's birthday. The memorial was held on their twenty-ninth wedding anniversary. While some co-workers came to the memorial, not one supervisor or management person came. After working for the company that advertises as the "happiest place on earth" for twenty years, he was of no more use to them. I guess his family was supposed to be grateful they had not found an excuse to fire him during his fight to live.

Health care should not be tied to your place of employment!

[juno jones]

30. I wish I could recommend.

You are right.

[bluethruandthru]

39. This is so wrong.............

I'm so sorry for you and your BIL's family. You're absolutely right...insurance coverage tied to your employer is stupid...and always has been. But American's don't know any different and really have a hard time imagining what it would be like to have health care no matter where you worked or if you worked or if you were full time or part time.

[Greyhound]

51. I'm sorry to hear this but that is very typical of Disney, one of the worst places to work.

I know several people that were enslaved by the mouse and all of them have a collection of horror stories.

[Javaman]

68. Had two friends work in their animation dept. They called their bosses:

Dis-nazi's.

[Javaman]

70. My very simple reason for national health care as always been...

A healthy workforce is a productive workforce.

Plus it also improves mental outlook knowing that you 1) won't go into massive debt if you get sick 2) won't have to eventually declare bankruptcy if that illness is something major 3) allows one piece of mind. Frankly, it's this last point that I firmly believe the powers that be are the most scared of.

If you remove the health care prison that we all currently find ourselves in; one can move from job to job with out fear of losing health benefits, once can take more chances out there what ever the reason, and mostly, people won't fear (the general term). And that is the one our elected officials worry about the most.

[N.Y. to Paris]

22. Freedom Fries indeed.......

How's the food there?

[Vidar]

24. France is a civilized country. Regrettably, the US is not.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. France has the best health care in the world as rated by the WHO, it's also not "single payer"

[eridani]

43. Actually, the government pays most of the expenditures

And private insurers are not allowed to cherry pick or rescind policies.

[Hippo_Tron]

96. True, but it is still not technically "single-payer"

[eridani]

103. So what? All countries with single payer, or even socialized medicine, have private insurance

They are just plain not allowed to use the Enron business model. Like Fedex and UPS, they add value to a basic public service by providing extra bells and whistles for extra money.

[Spider Jerusalem]

49. 'Single payer' is a mantra a lot of people parrot without really understanding, it seems to me.

It's just a convenient and easily-remembered slogan. And people like slogans, because they save them the trouble of having to think.

[Greyhound]

52. And yet it is also not a for-profit system. n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

31. Yes, but we don't have waiting lists!

:sarcasm:

[iverglas]

34. and this is what happens when you get cancer in Canada

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=64265&mesg_id=64394

(In more detail there. The report about the experience of cancer in the US is the original subject of that thread in the Health forum.)

I'm sure some have seen my tales more than once, but they're important for anyone who hasn't, to know how things really work out here beyond your borders.

My dad died of metatasized melanoma 6 years ago, after 6 weeks in hospital (diagnostic procedures, radiation, etc.) and 3 days at home at the end. We paid not a penny for any of it, including the ambulance transport home and the hospital bed, morphine pump, miscellaneous supplies and visiting nurse at home.

My mum and sister are both currently in cancer treatment, for early-stage lymphoma and advanced colorectal cancer, respectively.

Both have had ultrasounds, MRIs, biopsies (my mum), chemotherapy, radiation, surgery (my sister), visiting nurses, daily transportation from the local hospital for 5 weeks of radiation therapy at the cancer specialty hospital an hour away in the big city, and frequent consultations with family doctors, oncologists and whatever other specialist was needed.

My sister did get hit with a huge drug cost because of a blood condition caused by the chemotherapy; Ontario has no universal drug plan, but she had opted in to the optional sliding-scale public plan and was covered for it.

It really, really can work this way.

[theHandpuppet]

35. That's what you can get when all your tax dollars aren't spent....

... on waging WARS.

[Enthusiast]

100. You said it! nt

[mwooldri]

37. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

I work for quite a big company, and my employers *are* the insurer.

Sure my healthcare card may say Blue Cross Blue Shield, or Aetna, or United Healthcare or whoever. At the end of the day though my employer pays all the medical bills. Therefore if I were diagnosed with something as dreadful as leukemia, there won't be a million dollar surcharge placed on my head.

However it does go in theory that the employer could look at which employees are incurring the biggest health costs and if layoffs are required for "business reasons", those with high medical costs could in theory be out the door first. So far I have not seen any evidence of this, otherwise I'd be long gone from where I work, plus as far as I know the health care fund is kept at arms length from the rest of the company operations... as long as there's enough money to pay the medical bills then all is good and well.

[Quantess]

42. K & R

[yoyossarian]

46. Viva la Difference!

"We have already found the Holy Grail of Medicine, and it is verry nice!"


"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!"


Great tee-shirts, buttons and such at
Laugh City!


President Evil Online
has risen from the grave!

[Prophet 451]

54. It's much the same here

"here" is the UK. My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer about five years ago. She had the remaining tests the following day and was in hospital four days later. No charge, fully covered by the NHS.

[InfiniteThoughts]

56. i don't live in America anymore ... but is it really this bad?

I find it hard that politicians don't take this point of $1 million surcharge and use it as material to campaign against the current system. Is there proof on this $1 million surcharge? If so, can that be published?

[valerief]

64. US politicians are owned by the insurance industry. They don't want to bite the hand that feeds them

[Enthusiast]

101. Campaign against the current system?

Surely you jest. Politicians are owned by the current system.

[a la izquierda]

58. Jeez. An MRI in the same day?!?

I was having dizziness. My primary care doc, whom I love, sent me to an ear, nose and throat guy. It took two weeks to get an appointment. The E,N,T guy ordered a battery of ear and eye tests. The tests took a month to be scheduled and then another two weeks to get the results. Nothing wrong with my ears, but maybe a tumor affecting my vision (my eyes move too much). I'm 31. This scared the living shit out of me. Another three weeks for an MRI, which cost $1900. Then two weeks to see a neurologist.
The whole process took nearly 3 months. The whole time, I was dizzy, nauseous and tired.
Luckily, I'm fine. But for the love of god, what if I hadn't been?

[fasttense]

59. Free Health Care for We The People is in our Constitution.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

How can you have justice when American citizens are dieing from lack of health care?

How can you be tranquil when half your citizens may die or go bankrupt if they happen to get sick?

Now whose welfare is promoted through these insurance companies? NOT the General public but the CEOs, stockholders and board of directors of a very few number of Insurance companies.

How can you have liberty when you are enslaved by massive medical bills?

I wont even get started on the Declaration of Independence.

[Swagman]

60. same same Australia, and Canada, Germany, Italy, Finland, Sweden, New Zealand

Brunei, Saudi Arabia, Turkey etc etc etc. It's not free of course but you just pay a supplement in your taxes every week and if you are unemployed or a pensioner the government pays that supplement. It all adds up to $$billions every year and because the profit angle is removed the money builds fabulous hospitals with every facility.

Just when I need it I've had 2 full knee replacements in the last 3 years and all it cost was my cab fare to and from the hospital and TV rental (mind you-the hospital would have transported me in a bus)But not free..just pay out of my taxes every week. We pay for our roads that way and everything else..why not health care ?

This ain't 'socialism'..it's just fucking common sense and it's humane. And the government can negotiate cheaper drug prices because it has billions to spend..that's competition working the way it should.

Odd isn't it that this can work in countries that can invest in amazing research facilities aided by thousands who fund raise as well.

Barak Obama-you must get this up and if you do you will be remembered as one of the greatest American presidents.

[scentopine]

62. true story: colon cancer and high tech...

Cancer. They were out for 2 months. Had part of colon removed. The first day back he was "laid-off".

This is the sort of America that makes the right wing and many so-called democrats giggle with delight.

Insurance companies climb a stack of dead and dying bodies to to achieve their wealth and power.

Republicans who profess such godly philosophies about the rights of the unborn, have no problem aborting that child after birth.

Single payer is the only way.

[DesertDiamond]

65. Also of note, the stipend was "just under minimum" wage, but in France that means a LIVING wage,

very different from the way-below-the-poverty-line minimum wage here in America.

[maryf]

76. Single Payer Rally in DC July 30th

Info here: http://www.healthcare-now.org

K&R

[Fire1]

78. I predict a mass exodus from this country in the

next couple of decades, especially among our younger generation.

[kegler14]

80. The French system is very good but is also facing a strain as

their population ages. Managed care is creeping in and the government is looking for other ways to prop up the system. Just as in the U.S., there's a segment that's too "rich" to get full government care, but too poor to afford out-of-pocket expenses or private supplemental insurance (yes, they also have private insurance to cover co-pays and other things in France). Those folks DO end up doing without things, such dental care, eyeglasses, medications, and so on. The French system does not provide everything to everybody.

The French live longer than Americans, but a higher percentage of Americans recover from cancer than the French. Fewer French die from heart disease, but one suspects that's not just because of their good health care system. The French don't spend as much on health care as the U.S., but they do spend the second highest percentage in the world despite the fact their doctors and drug companies make a whole lot less than in the U.S. And, as you might suspect, money still talks. Those with the cash get better, faster, and more comfortable care.

The French also pack emergency rooms (one doctor in a story I read said they think no more of going to an emergency room than they think of going to a cafe) because there's never a bill, and they go to doctors more often than need be (better that than not enough, but...). And (does this sound familiar?) some doctors have pulled out of the government fee schedule because it doesn't pay enough to cover expenses. Of course a standard checkup still costs only one-tenth what it costs in the U.S.

Chronic illness IS taken care of. My own cousin, a native of Baton Rouge, La., moved to Paris many years ago to play jazz. Once there, he developed a rare and chronic heart condition that will eventually kill him. He gets free care from one of the top cardiac specialists in the world, and that care has almost certainly kept him alive. But, even though he'd like to return to the U.S. to be with family, he's essentially trapped there because there's no way he could afford the necessary care out-of-pocket in the U.S. and of course insurance is out of the question.

All that said, the UN's WHO ranks the French system the best in the world; the U.S. 37th.

[Tracer]

81. Cancer treatment in the U.S. can be terrific, IF...

...you have single payer (aka Medicare).

I should know, since I've been dealing with cancer for close to 5 years.

Never, ever, have I had a problem finding great doctors or treatments, nor having to wait for long periods of time to see a doctor.

Example: Waited 10 whole days to see one of the best surgeons in Boston, the day before yesterday. He scheduled my latest surgery for next Thursday.

(I do have supplemental BCBS at a whopping $83 per month.)

[Wapsie B]

87. But France isn't free! It's run by a bunch of Socialists!

:sarcasm:

Cue the Lee Greenwood song........"Proud to be an American" :eyes:

[redqueen]

89. Remember in Sicko, when Michael Moore was in France?

That was great.

Is that were they got six months paid leave after having a baby? And you could have someone show up to help with the baby?

All because the rich there aren't so ridiculously greedy and powerful as they are here, and because the poor are more willing to stand up for themselves.

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

94. Great Video alongside the article also.

Yo ho

[azmouse]

102. kick