Extrajudicial Killing: US Attacks Kill 45 People in Pakistan

[Orwellian_Ghost]

US Attacks Kill 45 People in Pakistan

By ISHTIAQ MAHSUD
Associated Press Writer

July 08, 2009 "AP" -- Suspected U.S. drones launched two missile attacks on Taliban targets in the South Waziristan tribal region on Wednesday, killing at least 45 militants in the latest in a barrage of strikes close to the Afghan border, intelligence officials said.

The army said the top Taliban commander in another area of the northwest, the scenic Swat Valley, was wounded in a Pakistani airstrike. It gave no more details.

South Waziristan lies close to the Afghan border and is the stronghold of Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud.

Pakistan's military is also bombing and firing mortars at insurgent targets in the region, saying it is chipping away at Mehsud's resistance before launching a ground offensive there to eliminate him. Mehsud is blamed for many of the bloodiest terrorist attacks in nuclear-armed Pakistan in recent years.

...

http://license.icopyright.net/user/viewFreeUse.act?fuid=NDA3NDYzNg%3D%3D

[malaise]

1. What bothers me most is the ease with which people are

labeled and killed or killed and then labeled.
They are redefined as less than human and unworthy of the right to live - the most fundamental right of all.

I am sick of this shit.

[tekisui]

2. If they're dead, they're militants.

[timeforpeace]

4. It used to be innocents too, but now we only kill militants. Convenient, huh?

[OwnedByFerrets]

5. Very convenient

[notesdev]

3. Pass the hopium

I need something to take the edge off all this change

[Mari333]

6. and the american people dont seem to care a whit

about it. even many dems.
the war machine grinds on.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

10. It seems that people here are caring enough to unrecommend. Love that bloodshed......

:shrug:

[Beam Me Up]

11. This thread is a perfect example of why the unRec should be a no-go. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

13. Exactly.

[geek tragedy]

16. No, most sane Americans don't whine when we kill Taliban.

Only the anti-American and knee-jerk pacifists do.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

7. Two days of US drone attacks kill nearly 80 in Pakistan

Two days of US drone attacks kill nearly 80 in Pakistan
By Barry Grey


9 July 2009

The United States fired multiple missiles from pilotless drones on Wednesday in two separate attacks on insurgents in Pakistan’s South Waziristan district, killing up to 60 people. The attacks followed a US missile strike in South Waziristan on Tuesday that reportedly killed 16 people.

The missile strikes mark a further escalation of US drone attacks, bringing the total since last August to 45. The stepped-up US military violence in Pakistan coincides with an ongoing offensive by the Pakistani military in the Swat Valley and preparations to launch an offensive in South Waziristan, a mountainous region in the northwest of the country bordering Afghanistan.

At the same time, the Obama administration has launched a major ground offensive in Afghanistan’s southern Helmand Province. Taken as a whole, the intensification of US military actions in the two countries, together with Pakistani air and ground operations launched at the insistence of Washington, constitute a massive military escalation aimed at drowning the insurgencies in blood and terrorizing the civilian populations on both sides of the border.

The Pakistani offensive in the Swat Valley has turned 2 million residents of the region into internal refugees. There are no reliable figures on the number of dead and wounded. US drone attacks have increasingly been aimed at Pakistani militants led by Baitulluh Mehsud, who are based in South Waziristan. Mehsud is considered by the regime in Islamabad to be its most dangerous internal enemy. He is not, however, involved in cross-border attacks on US and NATO forces in Afghanistan, the original justification for CIA-launched drone strikes on Pakistan’s tribal regions.

...

www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/paki-j09.shtml

[Beam Me Up]

12. But this information may never reach GreatestPage due to unRec feature n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. But, the politicians and generals assure us that killing them is for their own good.

[geek tragedy]

9. Thank goodness for the unrec button

The pro-Taliban cadre here no longer gets to flood the place with its drivel

[tekisui]

14. The pro-Taliban cadre? Yeah, I see posts defending the Taliban all the

time.:eyes:

Please link to one.

[geek tragedy]

15. This one.

You see, according to the OP, it's an outrage against humanity to kill the Taliban.

[tekisui]

17. How do you know they were all Taliban?

And, should every member of the Taliban be subject to murder by US bomb?

Killing is wrong. That is not a Pro-Taliban position to take. It is a human position to take.

[geek tragedy]

18. As I said, it's pacifists like you who oppose killing the Taliban.

FYI, killing the enemy in an armed conflict is not murder.

And yes, under international law, every member of the Taliban can be killed legally by the US unless they surrender.

[tekisui]

19. Killing anyone IS murder, that is a strange claim you make.

You didn't answer my first question, how do you know they were all Taliban?

You don't know if ANY were Taliban. If it's dead, it's Taliban, right?

[geek tragedy]

20. No, not every killing is murder.

I suggest you educate yourself and look up the definition of murder. HINT: Murder is a crime. If it is not a crime, it is not murder.

P.P.S. There is nothing in the story to suggest otherwise--this was a training camp, not a wedding party.

[tekisui]

21. Linguistics. Every killing is a crime.

[geek tragedy]

22. If you're a knee-jerk pacifist who's uneducated

about the law.

[tekisui]

24. I'm not talking about law. I am talking about taking a life.

You and law can sugar coat it. Taking a life is murder and is a crime.
You are a knee-jerk murderist.

[geek tragedy]

27. Murder is a LEGAL term.

You ate too stupid and ignorant to merit further discussion.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proteus_lives]

29. Serious questions

Killing in self-defense or the defense of others is a crime?

Killing in armed combat (soldiers vs. soldiers) is a crime?

"Every killing is a crime."

Is this an emotional statement or do you have reasons?

[tekisui]

32. Self defense, if your life is on the line is

the only time I could understand killing. Every other situation is a crime. It is murder.

[proteus_lives]

34. One more.

When a soldier enters a combat situation and the it becomes killed or be killed, does that fall under self-defense? What about pilots, snipers and artillery operators?

Example: The American bombing crews over Japan in WWII. Their objective was was to destroy the war-making capabilities of Japan and force them to end the war. They caused massive death and destruction but were those men murderers? Murder is unlawful killing but a state of war had been declared. Where do you draw the line?

[tekisui]

35. I believe war is murder.

As Earnest Hemingway said: Never think that war, no matter necessary, no how justified, is not a crime.

[noamnety]

25. How do you know they are Taliban if there haven't had a trial?

legally, in some states we can kill serial rapists - but they are still entitled to a trial to ensure they are the person we think they are.

People who support trials before executions aren't "pro-serial rapists."

[Karmadillo]

23. "Pro-Taliban cadre" That's hysterical. You should figure out a way to charge us for your posts.

We don't deserve to get them for free.

[geek tragedy]

28. Sure. Claiming that military action against

a military opponent is an 'extra judicial killing' is pro-Taliban and/or anti-American propaganda.

Doubtlessly your loyalties changed when the US elected the great Satan Obama instead of Hillary.

[Karmadillo]

33. But GT, Drones Hardly Ever Kill Bad Guys. 2% kill militants. 98% kill civilians.

That info comes from David Kilcullen. Sic 'em, GT. He's probably another pro-Taliban, anti-American subversive who reads books. And when you're done, post your paypal info so we can make a contribution.

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/11/drones-hardly-ever-kill-bad-guys/

Drones Hardly Ever Kill Bad Guys

By Greg Grant Monday, May 11th, 2009 10:52 am
Posted in Air, International, Policy

The foreign policy community’s favorite counterinsurgency adviser, or at least their favorite Australian one, David Kilcullen, told lawmakers last week that the drone strikes targeting Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in Pakistan are creating enemies at a far faster rate than its killing them. According to statistics he provided, the success rate of the drone bombing campaign is extremely low: just 2 percent of bombs dropped have hit targeted militants. The other 98 percent? Those killed noncombatant Pakistani civilians, he said.

Since the drone strikes began in earnest in 2006, the U.S. has killed 14 mid-level Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders. In the same time frame, the strikes have killed 700 Pakistani civilians, Kilcullen said May 7, speaking before the House Armed Services Committee, Subcommittee on Terrorism and Unconventional Threats. The strikes themselves are not particularly unpopular in the tribal areas, the FATA, that border Afghanistan, as many of the people there are weary of the militants operating in their midst. Where the strikes are extremely unpopular, he said, is in the more populated areas of Punjab and Sind, areas where there has been a big jump in militancy since the bombing campaign began.

“Right now our biggest problem is not the networks in the FATA, but the fact that Pakistan may collapse if this political instability continues.” The U.S. should stop the bombing campaign against the Pakistani Taliban and instead return to a narrower target set aimed only at Al Qaeda operatives, Kilcullen said, as the bombing campaign has simply become too counterproductive. The Taliban run a very effective “information operations” that broadcasts the death toll from U.S. strikes to feed a rising tide of popular anger against the U.S. and western involvement in Pakistan, he said.

more...

[maryf]

26. kicknt

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. What a chess move, huh?

It's Obama's war now, his surge, his killing of innocents, and his war to lose, or lose.

Bring my Brothers in Arms home now please. Stop shooting missiles from drones every time fifty Afghanis get together for a wedding or a funeral.