If Dems can't stop the war, then we should just fund it, let Bush and Cheney

[Nimrod2005]

have it their way, and step back and let them do whatever between now and November 2008.

All GOP assholes who support them will have to face the voters, if the country is no longer supporting all wars all the time policies, then the voters will remove them.

If this is Bush's war, then let it be Bush's war.

I know this is a harsh and maybe a crazy position to take, but there are no signs showing that the Dems can stop the war and get the troops out, and there is no indication that BushCheneyRiceGatesGOPPunks want it to end.

[Raven]

1. I think that's basically what the Dems are doing.

They don't have the votes now to override a veto. They say they will keep submitting bills to end the war and Bush will keep vetoing them. They may be figuring that as the Bush meltdown continues, they'll begin to get votes from conservative dems and some repubs. I think they are going to continue to beat the drums, continue to investigate, keep the pressure on. Given the absence of enough votes, I don't think they have many other viable options.

[MadHound]

2. Yeah, let's just ignore those tens of thousand of people who would die

After all, we've got more important things to do, like play politics:eyes:

Shame, shame on you! How in the hell can you be so cold hearted and calloused that you can actually, with a straight face propose this?

The Dems have the power to stop this war in the palm of their hands, defund it, stick all of those supplemental funding bills deep in committee. And the war will stop.

But no, the Dems, much like you apparently, want to play political games rather than stop a war.

Well let me give you this cold blooded political calculus. The Dems were elected to power last fall by a coalition of Dems, anti-war liberals, and 'Pugs who have gotten disgusted with this war. This coalition voted Dems in with one large directive, and that was to end the war. If the Dems don't end the war, that coalition goes away. The 'Pugs go vote 'Pug again, and the anti war left will either vote third party or stay at home in droves. And the Dems will lose the power that they have, and can kiss the WH goodbye.

It's that simple. Failure to end the war is going to cost the Dems. Hopefully they understand that political reality. For it is becoming increasingly obvious that most of them, like you, don't give a damn about the moral aspect of killing innocent people on a daily basis.

[Rydz777]

14. First and foremost

needs to be to save our troops from more death, maiming, and psychological trauma. You are absolutely right that that must be the unrelenting goal. And the truth is that the voters will reward those who succeed in stopping the war and will punish those who prolong it. It is now clear to everyone - except a few fanatics - that this is a disastrous mess and we need to get out of it NOW.

[youngdem]

3. Then the Dems would have more blood on their hands too

The Dems were given the majority to attempt to stop this war, and for no other reason.

The Dems owe it to the public who sent them there to at least TRY to stop it in any way that might work.

When we are still there in 08 because of Bush and the Repuke minority, we can point to the white house and the remaining house and senate seats we need to get the withdrawal done and say to the public 'We need those too if you want us out' - and I suspect we will get them.

We owe it to the families of the dead and soon to be dead and injured on both sides of this conflict to oppose it, even if that doesn't result in the immediate end to the conflict.

I'm sure you are just frustrated. Perhaps a little morning drinking might help? :beer:

[winston61]

4. Cheney does not care because he is crazier

than a shit house rat. Bush just intends to walk away from it. The repukes intend to keep the war going and then hand a steaming pile of shit of a failure to the Dems and then use it as political bat to beat the Dems over the head with when they won't stop it either. It is an astounding failure of policy that hasn't really come home to Americans because 1.) they just don't give a shit (who's on idol this week?)
and 2.) they just don't give a shit (my son or daughter is not in the war and the President tells us everything is great, what's the problem?). There are major changes in leadership taking place in the West and the Middle East will collapse under the weight of western imperialism and occupation. Let me say once again that we Americans have the government we want and select and deserve. Let an old American hypocrite say it. And Jesus wept.

[Nimrod2005]

7. You are so right......nt

[soothsayer]

5. Yes, the should say "The only way to stop this war is to get a Dem

president in the WH." And then they should say, we could wait until Jan 20, 2009, but of course, impeaching */cheney would do that sooner....!

[elocs]

11. Unless they are convicted, impeachment does not do much.

After all, Clinton was impeached, right? Impeachment without conviction is like having sex without orgasm. Sure the process may be fun, but the ending is unsatisfying.

[NastyDiaper]

6. Every following bill should be more restrictive.

* needs help designing a safe exit plan where they don't run out of gas in basra otw to Kuwait?
No problem!

1) Ask the generals for a plan, cost and necessary duration for exit.
2) Specify the money and date in the bill. 3/1/08-5/31/08 10b for safe passage out.

In short it's the Feingold strategy. The * talking point is "micro manage"? Demanding results is hardly micro managing. But if they want micro managing, i say let congress give it to them.

Each iteration specifically address whatever problem * had with the previous bill with additional restrictions.

[frogcycle]

8. when I try to be dispassionate i almost agree with you

then I update my website with faces and stories (which I will spend the next few hours doing) and think "21 more months at four/day - or more?"

look at all the faces on my history pages and understand you are condemning just as many more to join them.

No, as citizens of this country we have a moral obligation to set things right. We have to keep trying to get it stopped. Even if it takes 18 months, thats a few months short of just letting it go.

faces

[Nimrod2005]

16. I know it is tough...That's why I want to make sure it is Bush's war all the way...

War is always UGLY.

[KharmaTrain]

9. They'll Fund It Anyway

Between signing orders and moving dollars around, this regime will find the money for its wars for profit...Democratic Congress or not. booooooosh is playing chicken and trying to call the Democrats bluff...using this and other lies to keep his dwindling base in place and little more. The Democrats do not have the votes to override vetos or have a supermajority that would make all our dreams and ponies happen...all we can hope for is what is happening...cooling this regime's jets and investigating what we can from the large and growing list of scandals.

The ugly truth is even the most aggressive "get the troops out" plan won't bring them home for at least a year and can be redefined depending on situations.

This will sound cruel, but one we must keep in mind. Cutting boooshie's ability to fund and "govern" could come back to bite a future Democratic President in the butt...especially should the Repugnicans recover and retake one of the Houses. While we see it as the principaled thing to do...this is Washington and opportunism always trumps principals.

[whosinpower]

10. No

I cannot disagree more. It is Bush's mess. The next administration should not have to be saddled with it. And Bush and Cheney are just trying to run out the clock--and then leave the mess to future presidents. Passing the buck again!

I think the dems should fight him every single step of the way. I think they should defund the war. Call Bush's bluff.

[GeorgeGist]

12. No maybe about it.

[elocs]

13. Sure, the Democrats cannot stop the war or bring the troops home now,

but they certainly should do nothing to further its continuance any longer than necessary. You cannot be dispassionate when innocent people are dying--Iraqis, Americans, men, women, children. To do so would be to have blood on your hands also. To do what is right, is right, even if it is not politically expedient. I, for one, would be happy to see some politicians who do not constantly have their fingers in the wind to help them to decide what to do next. The irony is that most Americans are probably hungry for that kind of leader since it does not take much to make a politician.

[spoony]

15. And cost how many lives in making that point? n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. The repukes are planning to pull the plug in September if things don't improve.

At least that's what was reported to have been said in the secret meeting between repukes and Petraeus. The Democrats need to stay on top of this....out in front of the Sept. plan. Otherwise, the repukes will spin it to say THEY themselves should get the credit for ending the war. The Democrats MUST keep trying to end it. They CANNOT let the repukes take the credit for saving our soldiers and innocent Iraqis (not that repukes give a shit about the innocent Iraqis, mind you) that is exactly how they will spin it.

This whole occupation is nothing but politics for the repukes. If it goes well (which it won't), they win. If it keeps going badly (which it will) and they stop it, they will try to take credit for that too. The Dems can't let them do that. They must keep trying to end it in whatever way they can. 70% of the citizens want it that way and the Dems have a win/win come November '08 IF they continue fighting to end this illegal invasion.