Rambling Zelaya is the Latin Blagojevitch: Attacks "Honduras Elites..and indirectly the USA"

[SuperTrouper]

Quoting poets and philosophers, the ousted President of Honduras is addressing the UN General Assembly with a rambling and incoherent speech (live CNN en Español). Zelaya is saying that he helped the poor, bringing the poverty rate down, fighting the "Honduran Elites", helping all Hondurans and boasting of his close friendship to Hugo Chavez, Evo Morales, Fidel and Raul Castro, and Daniel Ortega. In a very schizophrenic way, the ousted President also credited the ALBA countries (Alianza Bolivariana de America) and the whole world of giving him their support against his ouster by the national Congress of Honduras and the Honduran Supreme Court. He also is saying that the entire country is paralized protesting to put him back in power, while CNN En Español shows massive protests in Tegucigalpa, San Pedro Sula, La Ceiba, and Comayagua supporting the new President and the expulsion of Zelaya. The former President has vowed to return to Honduras this Thursday to reclaim the Presidency but the new government has stated that they will welcome the OAS delegation to show them what the truth is in the country and to show them the evidence of Zelaya's repeated violations of the Constitution and his criminal activity and violation of human rights. The new Honduran government also has indicated that if Zelaya returns, he will be immediately arrested and incarcerated to answer for high crimes and misdemeanors because there is an arrest warrant against him by the Honduras Supreme Court and the Honduran Attorney General. In his speech at the UN, Zelaya also blasted the "giant country" (USA) of taking advantage of the poorer and little countries in Latin America by having unfair trade advantages and pushing their weight around for their own benefit.

What do I think? It is an evolving crisis in Honduras. President Obama has stated that he still recognizes Zelaya as the Honduras President; however, Secreatry of State Hillary Clinton has been very careful in making statements so far, only saying that this is an evolving situation and that the USA is going to be evaluating the complete story and will keep diplomatic relations and staff in Tegucigalpa.

[timeforpeace]

1. Giving the guy a forum is a good idea.

[SuperTrouper]

5. I agree. The world need to hear his side of the story...unfortunately, his rambling and tangential

speech begins to make you wonder how based on reality this gentleman is...at any rate, I think that the UN did well to give him a forum to express his ideas without any filter.

[David__77]

2. Your apology for fascist coup reveals your political nature.

This is a fascist coup - nothing else. Zelaya is president, and he has indeed helped the poor and won their support. This is the same as the fascist coup of "dictator for a day" Pedro Camona in Venzuela. And this coup too, will fail.

Obama was VERY clear that Zelaya is president and this is a coup. No state recognizes this coup.

There are no protests supporting this coup - that is a blatant lie.

[SuperTrouper]

6. Just look at CNN En Espanol (Dish Network channel 859) they show

intermittently the protests against Zelaya

Also online La Prensa http://www.laprensahn.com/Secciones-Principales/Inicio

[David__77]

12. The protests were prior to the fascist coup.

The only protests occurring NOW are against the fascist coup.

[SuperTrouper]

21. No, I am sorry but you are wrong, please do not blind yourself to the truth...

I (as a Honduran American) am quite familiar with the reality of my native country. I know that my point of view is not popular here, but in a few weeks it will be vindicated. In Venezuela, in 2002, they tried to depose Chavez, too, but the international community condemned it and returned Chavez to power and now the rest is history. We do not want to be Communist in Honduras, we'd rather die. We love the freedoms and privileges of Democracy and just like George Washington did, we will fight to preserve our freedoms even if we are condemned by the world, just like our Founding Fathers were condemned by Europe in 1776.

[David__77]

25. You're simply wrong.

Of Honduran descent or not, wrong wrong wrong. There are no mass expressions of support for the fascist coup in Honduras. Those protests occurred prior to the coup, and I suspect you know that.

In any event, we will see how things play out, now that the UN General Assembly has unanimously condemned the coup and recognized the legitimacy of Zelaya's presidency.

If the coup plotters were so sure Hondurans do not "want to be communist," they would have allowed this non-binding opinion survey to be held, rather than overthrowing the elected government. The rightists have made a terrible mistake now, and all the idle, exploitative vermin of Honduras will pay the price when the day of reckoning arrives.

I believe this coup will fail and Zelaya will be returned as president with more political support than ever before. Thankfully Obama is taking the correct position. I believe a candidate will be elected in November as president of Honduras who will complete the country's transition to democracy and socialism, in accord with the majority will.

[David__77]

31. Ok, I see there are some pro-fascist demos in Honduras.

We know there are fascists in that country.

What's clear is that they are allowed freedom of expression while pro-Zelaya protesters have been mercilessly beaten.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

33. There are pro and con marches right now being shown on Telesur. Apparently they

have not encountered each other yet.

[Joe Chi Minh]

45. You're too transparent, laddie.

[Odin2005]

46. last night on the BBC World Service a journalist talked to someone at a post-coup, anti-Zelaya...

...demonstration, so you are wrong.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

3. I'm listening to the speech sounds fine to me. nt

[David__77]

4. UN backs Honduras head's return

The UN General Assembly has approved a resolution calling for the reinstatement of ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya.

Mr Zelaya's expulsion by the army on Sunday has been criticised in Europe, Washington and Latin America as a coup.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8127503.stm

[mix]

7. "Latin Blagojevitch": is that a put down?

it's Blagojevich, btw

[SuperTrouper]

9. Not a put down, just a description of his behavior and actions

but soon enough the world will know what this man has done...just like we supported the freedom protesters in Iran, you should support the freedom protesters in Honduras that are jubilant of his ouster and not only concentrate on the dozens of agitators and troublemakers in the country. CNN Spanish channel is doing a great job showing impartiality and the truth will start coming out soon enough.

[mix]

10. weasel words n/t

[H2O Man]

32. definitely.

[timeforpeace]

35. Correct. It's possibly too complex for this venue. He violated the Constitution, got caught.

[mix]

44. you are lying at worst, or misinformed at best

from the BBC

What provoked Mr Zelaya's removal?
Mr Zelaya planned to hold a non-binding public consultation on 28 June to ask people whether they supported moves to change the constitution.
This would in practice have meant holding a referendum at the same time as November's presidential election on setting up a body charged with redrawing the constitution.
Mr Zelaya's critics said the move was aimed at removing the current one-term limit on serving as president, and paving the way for his possible re-election.
The consultation was ruled illegal by the Supreme Court and Congress, and was opposed by the army.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8124154.stm

[timeforpeace]

52. Or you are ignorant? You confirmed my point. Wow, that was weird. I bet you're embarrassed.

[EFerrari]

50. Freedom protesters, my granny. Those protests were staged.

You can tell by the grooming and dress of the participants and the utter lack of police interdiction. Oh, and Zelaya didn't shut down the medios, the golpistas did. The truth. Good grief.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

8. Show of hands. How many people would have approved if the US army

snatched George W Bush from the whitehouse in his footie pajamas with the bunny prints and tossed his ass in Canada? Mind you in Mr Bush's case he wasn't even elected. You know just overlooking that whole due process thingy and completely disregarding the law. As much as I despised everything the Boy King stood for I wouldn't. Would you?

[Joe Chi Minh]

13. What a bizarre comparison! Bush and this guy who's been helping the poor

and won their support. Somehow, I think their "bases" are polar opposites. The have-nots and the have-yachts.

[mix]

15. +1

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

17. -1 You didn't get my post. nt

[mix]

19. i probably didn't n/t

[mix]

26. i get it now, i'm slow sometimes

the post about the class differences was interesting though
:dunce:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

29. I don't disagree I also edited my post to convey my point in a clearer way. nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

16. No, I'm making an analogy to demonstrate how hypocritical it is to support

the coup. It is a very apt comparison. We think the rule of law and due process are fine here but it's OK if some poor nation down there does it if it agrees with our political views. If the man is supposedly guilty of something where are the charges and whee Es the trial as he so eloquently put it in his UN address.

[Joe Chi Minh]

36. That's making sense. Though why would the ultra rich in South America

suddenly want to respect the rule of law, as it obtains under the aegis of a democratic government? Never happened, has it?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

38. The question goes out to all the coup supporters though. I never imagined that I would read these

things on DU...... oh wait I forgot about the Aristide "legal kidnapping and exile". I guess some things never change.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

22. Edited to make it a little more obvious. nt

[Odin2005]

48. So it's OK for a leader to act unconstitutionally just because he's our guy?

:eyes:

*Note: before the black-and-white thinkers start insulting me, I am AGAINST the coup.*

[timeforpeace]

14. How many would have approved if Bush tried to get 4 more years like Zelaya was doing?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

18. Irrelevant, where is the due process? You know those pesky things like charges

trials etc. How many Hondurans get tossed on their asses on another country for supposedly breaking the law?

[timeforpeace]

23. Supreme Court and Attorney General charged him, he took a plea bargain to avoid prosecution

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

24. Where can I get this information from? nt

[ProudDad]

27. From the nether regions of the coup plotters? (n/t)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. See now that's difficult since I don't know any of them it will be very hard for

me to obtain that info through a cavity search. :evilgrin:

[Joe Chi Minh]

34. I don't think that is a question it would be prudent for an American on here to

answer in the affirmative, and makes your posts seem even more iffy.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

37. What the fuck are you talking about? George W Bush is not in government anymore

I doubt that there will be any secret service agents jumping all over this. I've been posting here since 2001 well to the left of most here. My positions on Latin America could not be any clearer. But I'm starting to wonder about you. It's very simple either we support due process at home and abroad or not.

There's no way you're actually this dense. I get it you're doing some sort of Andy Kaufman thing aren't you.

[Joe Chi Minh]

40. Technically, it could be construed as favouring sedition, or since chronology means

so much to you here, a propensity for it. People are apparently being qustioned and or arrested in the US now, for making comments that could be construed as being of that nature. And understandably, given the irrational threats against emanating from some neo-nazi types.

Don't know Kaufman.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

42. Well I'm not that paranoid.......yet. So just as a disclaimer:

"Dear FBI Man the post referenced above was meant in a pure hypothetical scenario. I nor anybody replying to it in no way advocate military coups in this country."

Andy Kaufman the comedian????!!! OK well then I guess that reference won't make any sense now.

[Capt_Nemo]

11. Your beloved Pinochet wannabees will go down in flames sooner or later

You can yell and scream about it all you want
but it won't change the reality...

[H2O Man]

20. "

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. Time to kick that other thread of mine.

I want to see you sobbing.

[rabs]

39. "Rambling Zelaya" will be accompanied to Tegucigalpa on Thursday by ...

President Correa of Ecuador
President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner of Argentina
OAS General Secretary Miguel Insulza
UN General Assembly President Miguel D´Escoto

Another detail, the Obama administration has NOT yet suspended military aid, as stipluated by U.S. law in the event of a military coup.

Telesur is reporting a very large pro-Zeyala demonstration marching toward the presidential palace as I write this.

There is a smaller pro-golpista demonstration but it is not near the pro-Zelaya crowd.

[Joe Chi Minh]

41. It could even be that Obama didn't really favour the coup, but being very subtle

prefers to proceed by indirections, also making it easier for his team.

It can be good, and maybe will be in the long run, but it's not an easy thing to know sometimes which would be best: a forthright assertiveness or subtelty. JFK, a very courageous man, got it wrong in his day. Maybe Obama's got this right for our day. But a lot of people of course are suffering in the meantime, in terms of the economy, for instance, at home, and find such patience harder to come by.

[Adir Pykhtin]

43. CNN espanol wants to take the exiles' side, and the exiles hate Zelaya, Chavez, Correa, etc.

News outlets in the US will always seek to attack the pro-Chavez side, so as to not angering the Miami exiles.

[EFerrari]

51. We have other options, though. Amy Goodman is doing a great job

and Grit TV is, too. We can also stream news. I turned off my local Spanish station last night because Univiision also has taken the golpistas' side. Times like these, the bottom line gets really visible.

[Joanne98]

47. I watched that and he wasn't rambling. He made perfect sense.

[EFerrari]

49. Every credible analyst is saying the same thing.

And Clinton avoided the acknowledging the coup because as soon as we do, we have to cut off everything to Honduras, that's the law. Being indirect gives Obama more flexibility or, gave him more flexibility.