Cutting Edge Debate Over Switchblades (NRA)

[ensho]

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000003155958


The National Rifle Association strikes fear in politicians and bureaucrats who might be tempted to restrict gun sales. Now it’s warning the Department of Homeland Security that it also won’t tolerate efforts to restrict knife imports.

The spat centers on a decision by Homeland Security’s Customs and Border Protection division last month to classify knives that can be opened with one hand as switchblades — even if they don’t open with the simple press of a button, the method best understood in popular culture. The sparsely worded announcement said the department was planning to revoke previous guidance to manufacturers that knives that open with the help of spring mechanisms are not switchblades.

Customs spokeswoman Jenny Burke said in a statement that the agency had in the past issued conflicting rules — some permitting spring-loaded knives, others forbidding them — and that the rule change would clarify the agency’s stance. “Health and public safety concerns” were an important consideration in banning the knives, she added.

But in an e-mail message sent to members earlier this month, the NRA warned that the proposal “could make hundreds of millions of knives, now in regular use, illegal” — and in so doing adversely affect
hunters.

The American Knife and Tool Institute (AKTI), a trade group, and Knife Rights, which says it represents individual knife owners, are lobbying to block the proposal. The institute’s lobbyist, J. Nicole Bivens Collinson of Sandler, Travis & Rosenberg, has pressed lawmakers to weigh in, and last week more than 80 House members, led by Republican Bob Latta of Ohio and Democrat Walt Minnick of Idaho, signed a letter asking Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano to reconsider the proposal.
-snip-
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"Knife Rights" cripe

one of the first things a cop asks when about to search a person is 'do you have a knife in your pocket'

well, we wouldn't want to "adversely affect hunters", good gracious no.

[msongs]

1. for the NRA its always about $$ for its corporate masters lol nt

[Junkdrawer]

2. Sounds like the NRA is gearing up another "Don't be fooled by the term Assault Rifle" campaign...

I can hear it now: "Look, just because a knife looks scary doesn't mean it's a Switch Blade. A Switch Blade is a very specific knife."

[SteveM]

44. And liberal prohibitionists are gearing up for another culture war (nt)

[Ghost in the Machine]

64. Ummmmm...

"I can hear it now: "Look, just because a knife looks scary doesn't mean it's a Switch Blade. A Switch Blade is a very specific knife."

They would be 100% correct, too. A switchblade is a very specific knife.... one that you push a switch (button) to open.


Which knife looks scariest to you?



The big one at the top is NOT a switchblade, but the other 3 are... the blue one on the bottom is the size of a Bic lighter when the blade is closed... real scary, huh?

[Junkdrawer]

66. Well, gosh....Nailed that one....

It's not like you guys are predictable or anything....

I mean, some might say "Hey, the NRA has a new client. Perhaps they would think up a new campaign."

But I say "Well, hell, the Assault-Rifle-is-a-meaningless-term campaign worked so well, you know they'll just cut and paste that for the knife account."

And I was right.

[Ghost in the Machine]

70. You weren't right about anything...

... but don't let your delusions of literacy stop you from making a fool of yourself...

Once again, YES, a 'switchblade' is a specific knife. The fact that you can't comprehend the concept doesn't change anything. Words have meanings you know... even if *you* don't understand them....

Here's you a quick question: Is a Yugo a race car just because it has a racing stripe down it?

[boppers]

85. Why would they be classified as switchblades?

Customs wouldn't, as they're easily classified as utility, both under old, and new, definitions.

This is just NRA FUD.

[Ghost in the Machine]

94. Because they open with the push of a button...

.... like this:

[boppers]

95. Oh, my bad.

Yeah, that one looks like it'd be classified as switchblade, at least at that frame rate.

[Ghost in the Machine]

97. No problem...

The blade really opens that fast... you can't see it, just hear it.... CLICK! ... and the blade is open.

That's the point I was trying to get across to the other poster... "switchblade" has a very specific meaning...


Peace,

Ghost

[benEzra]

82. What the hell does this have to do with the NRA

except for the NRA weighing in weeks after the inane Customs decision?

The backlash against this idiocy started with the knife forums and knife rights community, not the gun rights community, although there are certainly common interests there. I think it may help knife owners that the NRA is jumping into the fray, though.

And you're right, a switchblade is a specific type of knife, and my ordinary Gerber one-hand-opening knife is NOT a switchblade even if Customs calls it one:

[boppers]

87. Customs wouldn't call that a switchblade.

The NRA says that customs would call it a switchblade.

[benEzra]

96. No, Knife Rights says that the dramatic policy shift at Customs

would call that a switchblade if applied consistently, which it most certainly will be if implemented. My knife can be opened to 45 degrees via a thumb stud and then opened the rest of the way by inertia (I just verified that myself). The criteria given in the most recent regulatory guidance issued by Customs would classify my knife as a switchblade if consistently applied.

Regulatory history (the relevant changes are the last entry or two, in which a knife that can be opened to 45 degrees via a thumb stud and opened by inertia the rest of the way is reclassified as a switchblade):

http://www.kniferights.org/U%20S%20Customs%20Proposed%20Ruling%20-%20Assisted%20Opening%20Knives.pdf

Note that customs has completely abandoned the decades-old criteria of "opened by a button on the handle" as described in the previous guidance, and are now considering inertia or gravity assisted thumb-stud openers as "switchblades," absolutely contradicting the original definition.

The NRA is late to this party; this idiocy has been burning up the knife forums for a month or two. The regulatory comment period is now closed, but I think some knife rights people approached the NRA in hopes of getting some Congressional heat on Customs about it. I damn well hope they succeed.

[boppers]

103. LOL, I linked to the same URL in thread.

I interpreted it quite differently, however, with switchblade not being defined by the mechanism used, but rather:

"(b) The term ''switchblade knife'' means any knife having a blade which opens automatically -
(1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife, or
(2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both."

See:
http://www.ebladestore.com/federal-switchblade-act.shtml

"utomatically" seems to be the primary criteria, with inertia, and gravity, and a device (not a button, it could be a lever, a slide, etc) modifying the way something was done automatically. That's in the 1958 version of the law. The non-handle rulings have been coming down for almost ten years now, part of what the PDF we both linked to explains why certain products would no longer be counted as exceptions, with the criteria focused on automatic knives.

[benEzra]

104. What worries me is the last or next-to-last ruling

in which the exemplar is a thumb-stud knife that you have to thumb open to 45 degrees and then a spring helps complete the motion. That is not a switchblade by any reasonable definition, but the way they categorize it as one would allow them to categorize a Gerber thumb-and-flick folder as a "switchblade" with little or no additional rationalization.

But banning the assisted openers is bad enough, IMO. They are not and have never been considered switchblades, and they have been around a while.

[boppers]

106. So, if a knife required you to move a button a quarter an inch before being locked open:

You'd consider it a switchblade, or not, depending on the button placement?

As far as criteria, the law could definitely use some revision, rather than focusing on mechanisms, focus on speed, knives that could reasonably be opened in a half of a second (measure by time), for example. Springs, gravity, inertia, magnetism, the mechanism used, all of these are secondary.

[benEzra]

110. My non-assisted Gerber can be opened as fast as an assisted opener

and definitely under your half-second criterion, thanks to the prominent thumb stud. Speed is not the difference between mine and an assisted opener, smoothness is.

I don't know if you could make a workable knife that opened fully after the blade moved a quarter inch. The one Customs banned had to be opened 45 degrees before any assistance kicked in; if someone invents a quarter-inch opener, then that could be addressed at that time.

The Customs regs don't ban hypothetical knives; they ban popular knives already widely used for lawful purposes, not some West Side Story fantasy.

[TheWraith]

3. Excuse me, but there's nothing illegal about having a pocketknife. nt

[Winterblues]

14. Being able to open it with only one hand though seems to be illegal.

There are many instances where one hand may be tied up and you have to be able to open it with only one hand and no teeth..If assault weapons are legal but not pocket knives what does that say about society?

[SteveM]

43. Yet another solution in search of a problem -- and more culture war...

I can open my hunting knife easily with one hand. In popular vernacular, it is called a "locking blade" knife. While holding the knife in one hand, you "thumb" open the blade (there is a bump attached near the base of the blade), then flick the knife open whereupon it locks. This is a convenience and safety device as the blade will not fold up on your fingers while doing hard work.

These models have been around for generations. They have a spring in them.

As for "assault weapons," this is a term of art not commonly used by armorers and military personnel. It is a term used mainly by gun controllers to describe what are in reality a semi-automatic carbines (short-barreled rifles) of medium power. These have been around for generations as well, and semi-auto deer rifles (of considerably more power) have been around even longer.

What does any of this say about society? That there are some among us who continuously rely upon prohibition to solve some kind of perceived social problem.

[The Doctor.]

60. Yep.

Just like banning abortion would certainly save lives.

:sarcasm:

[AndyTiedye]

62. Since When Did the Customs Service Get to Rewrite the Law?

[Indy Lurker]

67. They get to interpret law

They get to interpret law.

In this case, the switchblade act.

Since most knives are made outside the US, they can have a big impact on what's brought in or out.

[AndyTiedye]

78. Funny, I thought Interpreting the Law Was the Function of the Judiciary

[Statistical]

72. The cost of vague laws is interpertation. n/t

After couple decades of intelligent interpretation they are now changing the way they "view" the same law.

[boppers]

86. "One hand" isn't the definition.

One handed spring and lock into place, not a utility knife. Butterfly knives are one-handed, but require a step to lock it.

[MineralMan]

4. Interesting.

I don't have any single-hand openers, and can't think of why I'd need such a thing. I have carried a three-bladed stockman's knife in my left pocket for over 40 years, except when flying on the airlines. Then, it goes into my checked luggage and is back in my pocket shortly after arrival.

It takes two hands to open, and yet I've managed to do all my knife tasks with it, including field-dressing and skinning deer and pronghorns.

Maybe someone can tell me the reason for carrying a single-hand opening knife.

[TheWraith]

5. So that you can open it with one hand.

I've got one of these that I was using just the other day. I happened to be perched on top of a ladder, with my other hand holding onto a tree and the nylon strap attached to it that I was getting ready to cut through.

A better question is, why would people feel threatened by or afraid of a simple pocketknife?

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. Exactly. I once knew a lot of stagehands who were very upset that

switchblades were outlawed - and many of them carried them for years after they were banned - because when you are working up in the flies you want to do as much as you can one-handed, so you can hang on with the other.

[wolfgangmo]

26. I used to produce low budget theatre

I loved my switchblade, but my leatherman is WAY better. And it is now the tool of choice among techs.

Yah. Don't let go of the grid when you are on top of an old shaky ladder from the Eisenhower administration. It's a long way down into the orchestra pit.

[AndyTiedye]

50. Many Leatherman Tools Are Also One-Hand Opening

[anigbrowl]

46. Might be, but everyone I know uses a leatherman these days

I think this is a storm in a teacup.

[AndyTiedye]

51. Many Multitools, Including Leatherman Tools, are One-Hand Opening

[anigbrowl]

59. Yes, hence the popularity. However a knife is not a multitool.

I very much doubt that this is going to have any real-world impact on the sale or import of swiss army knives, multi-tools etc. It's always possible one or two shipments might get held up by some some overly-literal customs officer, in which case policy will get clarified and things will go back to normal shortly afterwards.

The obvious aim of this policy is at the kind of knives sold in gift shops and so on - I don't know how you refer to that genre. I can walk over to Chinatown in San Francisco and buy various weapons of questionable legality. Most of them are just trash and would be of little use in a fight, a few are more tuned for use rather than for show, though they tend not to be displayed in the window. Like I say, I doubt this customs policy will have much effect either way except on a few import/export businesses.

[MineralMan]

8. OK. I normally arrange my ladder so it's really stable.

But, that's a good answer. Now, I have a moronic brother-in-law, though, who always carries what he calls "tactical" knives. They all feature one hand opening. They're all "fighting" knives, because that's what my moronic brother-in-law fantasizes about.

He has many of them, and dreams of needing to pull one out and go snicker-snack on some "primitive" who attacks him on the street. Except, of course, that he never goes out where such an encounter might occur.

He does love his knives, though. They're really pretty and shiny, and have "tactical" features. Still, when a package needs opening, I'm usually the one people ask, and the spey blade on my stockman really does a good job, even if I need two hands to open it.

My brother-in-law is a moronic freeper. He worries me.

[TheWraith]

11. As you've already noticed, your brother is a moron.

Among other reasons, because a knife is not a very good self defense tool. It's only an effective deterrent if the other person does not have a weapon of any kind. If one actually tried to use a knife to defend one's self from an armed attacker, it would be a very good way to implement Darwinism. Even trained and experienced knife fighters would be in a tremendous amount of danger doing that.

In any event, you can't always arrange your ladder to perfection. Not to mention there are times when you're not on a ladder, but are on the roof, perched in a tree, or simply are holding something in your other hand.

[MineralMan]

18. Yes, he is. I did have a point, though...

One of the reasons this is even happening is because people don't like seeing fighting knives, just as they don't like seeing "assault" rifles. They don't know the difference, of course, but there it is.

My point is that nobody seems frightened by a traditional pocket knife. Not frightening people is a good thing, IMO. It keeps them from thinking they need to regulate away things that frighten them.

Pull out the typical "tactical" folder when someone needs the tape on a box cut, and you'll get a very, very different reaction than if you pull out a traditional pocket knife. That's my point.

Yes, you have the right to carry your knife, whatever its form...except for switchblades, which have been illegal for a long time. The question is: What's the point? Why do something that frightens people who aren't familiar with knives except for the steak knife they use?

What annoys me is that it's getting harder and harder to find good traditional carry knives. Schrade went out of business, so my favorite "Old Timers" are no longer available. I figure I'll lose or break about four more in my lifetime, so I've bought four new ones, which are in my underwear drawer, waiting until they're needed.

The last time I went deer hunting, the guy I was hunting with laughed when I pulled the stockman's knife out to field-dress my deer. He wasn't laughing when I finished. It's not the perfect tool for the job, but it worked just fine. OTOH, he was a moron, and managed to slice into his deer's bladder with his knife, so that didn't work out so well for him.

Carry what you like. Doesn't matter to me.

[TheWraith]

22. So they don't like seeing some things. They need to get over it.

Fundies don't like seeing abortions. That doesn't give them the right to ban them. And people who find modern knives (and rifles) disturbing don't have the right to ban those either. We're not going to become a luddite society to satisfy some people who find the past more comforting than the uncertain future.

[MineralMan]

24. You know, they don't have to get over it, though...

That's the thing. You'd like them to get over it, but they won't. And so, when their numbers get to a certain point, they're going to allay their fears by making it illegal for you to carry your knife.

Is it worth it to you? Is it worth it to frighten one more person and put them on the side of those who would take away your knife? Because, they will, you know. And they can. You're here on DU, and I can guarantee that there are many here who are frightened of the knives you like to carry. Add those to the morons and you can see the problem.

"Out of my cold, dead hands" is a prophetic statement, not a slogan that will work.

Sorry.

[MadHound]

35. The thing is, if you keep giving in to peoples' fears,

Pretty soon you won't have any guns, knives, what have you, left.

I carry an Opinel knife, a pretty innocuous folding knife. Wooden handle, twist lock, it's known as the fisherman's friend. You oil one of these knives up and you can flip it open with one hand, no spring needed. I used to work on a loading dock, shipping and receiving, and would have it in use constantly. I would pull it out, flip it open, lock it and go. Yet time after time people would freak out on it, its size (3.5 X 1.5), the fact that it flipped open, etc. etc. They were scared of this perfectly useful tool. Should they have the right to ban such a tool? No, they shouldn't, and if you start accepting bans like the one proposed, pretty soon all we're going to be left with in terms of blades are going to be box cutters and butter knives.

Some people need to stop freaking out over every little thing, and we certainly shouldn't cave to every little mouse who is scared of their shadow.

[TheWraith]

40. Exactly. This is the sort of thing that happened in the UK.

First it was handguns, then it was long guns, then it was scary looking knives, and now they're trying to ban kitchen knives. I kid you not, there's a movement over there to require every British household to replace all of their kitchen knives with new special knives that have blunted ends, and it's based on this same sort of "logic."

It's the same paranoia that has people taking their shoes off at an airport while thousands of packages are whizzed through security without even being looked at. Realistically, you're more likely to be struck by lightning than be killed by a terrorist, and you're infinitely more likely to die from that cheeseburger that you had for lunch than you are to be shot or stabbed. But people live in a miasma of fear, one fed primarily by TV news that wants to keep you tuned in past the commercial break. Banning scary objects is a security blanket to make people pretend like there's no risk in the world.

[Winterblues]

15. simple box cutters terrorized America...

:shrug:

[TheWraith]

17. Hands and feet are used in 6% of all murders nationwide.

Clearly, in order to make a safe country, we need to have everyone's limbs amputated.

Or, maybe, we could be adults about it and recognize that life entails risks, and that there's lots of things that could be turned to criminal purposes which shouldn't be banned.

[boppers]

88. Again, one-handed is not the definition...

...and "work tools" knives are also exempted (as "utility knives").

[anonymous171]

7. I know what you mean. We should only be allowed the freedoms that we need.

Who really needs to have the right to free speech anyways? I mean really, it's just too troublesome sometimes.

[MineralMan]

12. Hmm....I don't remember saying that I wanted any knives

banned. That's probably because I don't think that. I was simply describing how I use carry knives. You extended my words to a place they didn't go.

[TheWraith]

16. Any justification for such bans amounts to tacit support.

The question isn't "Why does someone need this," the question is "Why is there a massively compelling interest in restricting this?" The justification for banning knives is the same one used for banning drugs--somebody says "This is bad. Trust us, don't think for yourself. Just believe us."

[MineralMan]

19. No, it doesn't. Carrying knives that

have the appearance of "fighting" knives is the best support for bans on knives in general. It is not you or I who are pushing for control of knives. It is the frightened people. I don't give a damn what you carry. I just don't want frightened people to take away my traditional folder, and they might just do that if your knife frightens them.

[anonymous171]

31. But they will take those knives away if you don't stop them now.

Remember what happened it Britain.

[SteveM]

47. Therein is the problem with your outlook...

"I just don't want frightened people to take away my traditional folder, and they might just do that if your knife frightens them."

Don't feed the beast. Furthermore, if they got rid of some "one-hand" models, do you think they will stop at a Schrade-Walden (my 50- yr-old deer ribcage knife) or the fine and affordable Gerber skinner (a one-hand locking blade with a spring -- but not a switchblade)? I for one do not think they will stop. Prohibitionism is an addiction based on fear and a super-sized feeling of morality, and conversely, moral punishment.

[vadawg]

32. i carry two of these, each one accessable to either hand

in an extreme case it means if need be i can reach and deploy either folder and use it as a weapon or rescue tool. You dont always have 2 hands in order to deploy a blade.

[SteveM]

45. Please see #14 above. (nt)

[defendandprotect]

9. GOP's NRA . . insanity rules -- !!!

[aikoaiko]

10. I don't even understand why bonafide switchblades are banned in some places,

The must be a class of "bladed assault weapons".


I blame 12 Angry Men for the poor image of the switchblade. :sarcasm:

[TheWraith]

13. Because they're scary.

And because we all know that muggers or other attackers can't possibly open a regular knife in order to attack somebody.

[MineralMan]

29. I wonder when the last time was that someone was

stabbed with a traditional pocket knife. What do you think?

I'm guessing it's been a long time, since trying that's likely to get your own self cut pretty badly.

Lots of knife attacks in the Twin Cities each year. They don't usually make the paper, unless someone dies, but there are lots of them, if you read the arrest reports, as I do. Would you care to guess what sorts of knives are usually used in these incidents?

[TheWraith]

39. Are you kidding? It happens probably fifty times a day, all over the country.

But somebody getting stabbed with a "regular" knife instead of a "scary" knife isn't as worth mentioning.

[benEzra]

79. Within the last few minutes, probably.

The majority of "traditional pocket knives" have locking blades. Although a steak knife or paring knife will work just as well for a mugger or rapist.

This is my everyday pocketknife:



And yes, it opens with one hand. I wouldn't want a folder I couldn't open with one hand, unless I was carrying more than one knife. A lot of times when you need a knife (and I'm NOT talking about as a weapon), you only have one hand free.

[boppers]

89. Locking blades aren't part of the discussion.

Four knives were used as examples, all four used devices to quickly spring/move and lock a blade into place, and were of questionable value as everyday utility knives... they were essentially show knives.

[benEzra]

93. They are most certainly part of the proposed Customs ban.

The Customs proposal as it currently stands appears to cover most one-hand-opening locking folders (including my Gerber), not just spring-assisted but also stud-assisted or capable of being inertia-assisted. The exemplar in the Customs ruling was a thumb-stud-opening knife that had to be opened to 45 degrees with the thumb stud and the opening cycle continued through inertia. I can do that with my knife, or with any locking folder with a heavy blade, smooth mechanism, and a thumb stud.

The key issue here is that Customs abandoned the decades-old opens-by-button-in-the-handle definition of a switchblade (which is THE definition) and wrote their own definition that potentially encompasses any well-made folder with a thumb stud, and most definitely encompasses most quality folders with springs.

[boppers]

101. The full thing:

http://www.kniferights.org/U%20S%20Customs%20Proposed%20Ruling%20-%20Assisted%20Opening%20Knives.pdf

Customs looked at some knives, said "waitasec, these are switchblades". People who saw a loss of income screamed, and claimed that "switchblade" was being re-defined, when, quite clearly, the law already said what were switchblades, and some borderline products were still allowed (there are exceptions for utility tools, scout knives, etc. etc.).

[The Doctor.]

61. Hehehe....

Just in case, let's make sure only three-handed openers are legal.

Then we can all finally be safe!

[SteveM]

48. Great movie. At least prohibitionism has a since of nostalgia (nt)

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. When people begin to fetishize sharp sticks, some will feel an obligation to outlaw them.

I'm convinced that weapon bans are a self-reinforcing dance between the people who fantasize about weapons and those who are creeped out by those people. The creepier the weapon fetish-ist, the more important the weapon ban seems, which increases its importance to the "collector".

Look no farther than Obama's election and the subsequent hoarding of ammunition.

I don't think one handed knives really worry people, I think the people who fantasize about them worry people... so we attempt to regulate the objects of their fantasies, which makes said objects more taboo and thus more desirable.

A tool which can be operated with one hand is inherently more useful than one which requires two.

[TheWraith]

23. So let them gripe about the people...

And leave the other 99.9% of people who own and use these things alone.

[anonymous171]

33. It's the Nanny Staters vs the Police Staters. nt

[SteveM]

49. But the Nannies always call in the Police to clean up their stink (nt)

[Hoopla Phil]

21. This is a VERY bad "re-interpretation" of what a switchblade is. I'm glad SOMEONE

is making a big deal about this.

This "re-interpretation" by a group that does NOT have the power to make law will make criminals out of many many people. Under this "re-interpretation" ANY knife that can be opened by one hand becomes illegal! That's ANY knife. This is outrageous and I'm glad someone is bringing attention to this, even if it is the NRA.

[MineralMan]

28. That began long ago.

Take the balisong. Cool concept for a one-handed knife, although it takes a little practice to use. They're banned in a lot of jurisdictions. Same with other spring-knives than switchblades.

In California, you can't carry a dagger, either. Now, they're interested in the "tactical" knives. Why? Because they're scary-looking. They look like weapons, and that frightens people.

It's not a good idea to frighten people too much. They WILL take steps to keep you from doing so, whether those steps make sense or not.

Insisting on your "rights," may well lead to those rights going away, if your "rights" scare people too much.

If you don't think so, think about what has already happened.

[TheWraith]

41. So it's better to pretend like those rights don't exist, and have them taken away anyway? nt

[slampoet]

25. I Once worked in a Print Shop that REQUIRED the printers to carry a switchblade to cut you free....

...in case your clothing got caught in the rollers of the machines. i was told that before the previous owner bought these switchblades in the 60's there was a person who was crushed when their shirt was drawn into on of the rollers.

The switchblades were issued to us each shift and had to be given back after every shift.


SURE the blades were illegal but they were antiques and cheaper than picking your co-worker out of the gears.



But even with this,


It is the ONLY time i can think of a good legal use for a switchblade.

[Hoopla Phil]

30. The problem with this "re-interpretation" is that it adds knives that are NOT

switch-blades to the list of illegal knives. This is VERY bad!

[Feron]

37. I can think of many legal uses.

Personally I'd like a switchblade just because I think they are cool. It also would come in handy when I'm out working in the garden. Hell I have a pair of old scissors that are sharper than any knife I own.

I'm tired of the government trying to legislate away things that I might use to protect myself. Or tools that look scary.

[Statistical]

54. Of course this isn't about switchblades.

This is about knives like these.



The little "bump" allows you to use your thumb to open it.

That knife with the "bump" would be illegal for import per border control
The same knife without the "bump" would be legal.

Are we that afraid that we are going to ban bumps?

[boppers]

90. Not banned under the new rules.

It's not about the device (bump, lever, button, whatever) used for assist open, it's about "flick knives" (spring knives, gravity knives, etc.) that are of dubious use as utility tools.

[benEzra]

99. The exemplar Customs used was a thumb-stud-opening knife

that had to be opened to 45 degrees with the thumb stud before it could be flicked to full open. Any quality folder with a smooth mechanism, heavy blade, and thumb stud can fall under that, and most quality thumb-stud folders with opening springs already do as currently proposed (no extrapolation required).

[boppers]

105. History:

Note the dates:
"In New York Ruling Letter (‘‘NY’’) G83213, dated October 13, 2000, CBP
determined that ‘‘a folding knife with a spring-loaded blade be
easily opened by light pressure on a thumb knob located at the base of the
blade, or by a flick of the wrist’’ was an ‘‘inertia-operated knife’’ that ‘‘is prohibited
under the Switchblade Act and subject to seizure.’’ See 19 C.F.R.
§ 12.95 (a)(1).
In NY H81084, dated May 23, 2001, CBP determined that 18 models of
knives ‘‘may be opened with a simple flick of the wrist, and therefore are
prohibited as inertial operated knives.’’
In HQ 115725, dated July 22, 2002, CBP determined that a ‘‘dual-blade
folding knife’’ in which the ‘‘non-serrated blade is spring-assisted is
opened fully by the action of the spring after the user has pushed the
thumb-knob protruding from the base of the blade near the handle to approximately
45 degrees from the handle’’ ‘‘is clearly a switchblade as defined
in § 12.95(a)(4) (Knives with a detachable blade that is propelled by a
spring-operated mechanism and components thereof.)’’"

[JerseygirlCT]

27. Those guys have never met a way to hurt or kill someone that they don't like have they? nt

[Tim01]

34. Most box cutters would become switch blades.

[boppers]

91. Knives with a utility purpose aren't classified as switchblades.

Cute box-cutter, though.

[Tim01]

36. Maybe I should invest in the company that makes these.

Anti-stab knives.



It seems it's only a matter of time.

[RaleighNCDUer]

75. I think if you tried real hard you could stab with those,

and with the blunt tip that would REALLY hurt.

[KamaAina]

38. When knives are outlawed...

oh screw it. :eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

42. i can open my swiss-army knife with one hand...

so now it's a "switchblade"?

[SteveM]

52. Why, it's those Mexicans! And they're on marihuana, too!

Hey, if you want the real roots of the debate on switchblades (or "automatics" in some parlances), peruse our history of prohibition and see if you can fill in the blank of what race, ethnic group, religion, etc. was targeted for stop & search arrests.

Sorry, we can't leave out the Puerto Ricans when talking switchblades, right? Let's hear it for West Side Story.

[Indy Lurker]

53. What exactly are the "health and public safety concerns"

Is a knife that opens with one hand more dangerous that one that takes two hands to open?


I know a one handed knife is more useful.


I also know that if one handed knives become illegal, I'd switch to a fixed blade knife.

Is a fixed blade knife more or less dangerous that a one handed opening knife?



This is just all kinds of stupid.

Might as well require lighters that take two hands to operate to reduce arson.

[Statistical]

55. " Might as well require lighters that take two hands to operate to reduce arson."

Shh you might give them an idea.

Only someone carrying a gas can would need a lighter that can light with one hand.

Arson prevention act of 2011
"For public safety and well being..."

[AndyTiedye]

56. Many Multitools and Swiss Army Knives are One-Hand Opening

Many Leatherman tools feature one-hand opening:


So do many Swiss Army knives:

such as this Wenger Alinghi, which is made for boaters:


and this Wenger NewRanger 78:


and this Victorinox Rescue Tool:

[RaleighNCDUer]

76. Why a bottle opener on a 'rescue tool'?

For that time when you are REALLY desperate for a beer?

[boppers]

92. None of those would be banned.

They have obvious utility use.

[Indy Lurker]

108. Excellent News!!!

An automatic knife with a bottle opener is a utility tool, and not a swtitchblade.

[crimsonblue]

57. would somebody seriously get in legal trouble for having a switchblade

in their pocket and providing it to a police officer that asked "do you have a knige in your pocket?" I highly doubt it. Keep on, keeping on, crazy gun nuts.

[benEzra]

80. The problem is in defining NON-switchblades as "switchblades"

so as to outlaw the majority of pocketknives. And that is what is crazy here.

Here's the knife in my pocket right now:



It's not a switchblade, but it could be banned as a "switchblade" because of the stud on the blade to allow one-handed opening (a feature I use a whole lot). Banning one-hand-opening pocketknives is asinine.

[Statistical]

58. I would like to point out how stupid this "ban" is.

This knife would be banned because it has that little metal rivet and you can use your thumb to open the knife with one hand.

Of course the same exact knife without the metal "bump" would be legal.

Also legal would be the exact same sized knife with a fixed blade (non folding).

So 4" fixed blade = legal
4" folding blade w/ no bump = legal
4" folding blade w/ bump = illegal

Really? Economy in shambles, 2 wars, marriage equality issues, no universal healthcare, revolution in Iran, dingbat in Korea, 2000 tons of coke coming over the border each year.....

and we need to ban "bumps"?

Border Patrol and Customs has jumped the friggin shark.

[Taitertots]

63. I've got the mechanical assist opening

I'm kind of confused how it was not a switch blade. It has a spring inside and it springs open.


I'm so sick of people thinking the way they do things is the only way. "I used a two handed opening knife for Blah Blah Blah". People lived thousands of years without two handed folding knifes, what is wrong with you that you need a folding knife.


The one handed knife is obviously superior. You can open it faster and easier.


I'm so tired of people with their "multi tools". I've got a pocket knife, if I need anything else I have a tool box in the trunk. Those funky little useless "tools" they have on them are a joke. I'll make up the time it took to get the right tool for the job, within the first few seconds of doing correctly.

[Indy Lurker]

71. By definition

A switchblade by definition operates by 1 of three methods:

1. Gravity

2. Inertia - You flick the knife and the blade pops out.

3. A "device" which causes the blade to automatically pop out.

Typically the device is a button, and automatically means without further assistance.


By contrast, an assisted opening knife works like any other non-switchblade folding knife.

The blade itself, not a button or device, must be pulled or pushed open by hand until the locking mechanism snaps it into place.

An assisted opening knife simply requires less manipulation of the blade before it snaps into place.

[Taitertots]

77. So it is not a switchblade because you push the blade not a button?

It requires less manipulation, almost none. The blade has a nub on it. Once you push the nub a little bit the blade springs open fully. I would say less than an eighth of an inch is all it takes to make it spring fully open.

[ManiacJoe]

84. Not quite.

You push the nub continuously until the blade is fully opened. At that point the lock holds the blade in place.

If it "springs open" then it is a "switchblade".

[benEzra]

100. Under the new rules, if you can flick it open after it is partially opened with a thumb stud,

it appears that it can also be considered a switchblade. But the assisted openers (i.e., spring takes over partway through the arc) are the ones being banned now, as I see it.

[boppers]

107. Fast opening for use appears to be the core issue.

"automatic" is a key term in the law, with knives that open very fast being the issue, regardless of the force used for opening. It could be a spring, inertia, gravity, air pressure, magnets, whatever.

Getting a tad pedantic: "Switch blade" would be anything that didn't look like an exposed knife blade, and suddenly was one.

Defining "suddenly" is a bit of a problem, as is, oh, people who keep sheathed daggers on their person, and don't have the mechanisms in the blade or handle, but the delivery.

[benEzra]

109. There is no speed difference between my Gerber and an assisted opener, though.

And yes, I have handled assisted openers. Remove the thumb stud from mine and there would be a difference, but then it would be very difficult to open one-handed.

I used to have a 4" Buck knockoff (very traditional looking) that I could open without touching the blade, by flicking it, as long as the mechanism was oiled. It was not an assisted opener either and had no thumb stud.

[Indy Lurker]

111. Exactly

This is why assisted opening knives are designed that way.

To comply with existing law.

If you think about it, all knives spring open at some point.

For non-assisted opening knives, such as lock backs, it happens when the lock begins to engage.

SO if you are suddenly going to change switchblades to encompass knives that have some / any spring openness, it's going to cover all locking folders.

[Indy Lurker]

74. It's had to find but the only multi-tool I like is

the Vicegrips tool box:

I got a couple on clearance for $20

It's a real 5" vice grips, a real Philips, and a couple of blades.

[Paladin]

65. The NRA Has To Expand Its Purview

Now that Fat Tony Scalia squared things away for them on guns with the Heller decision, they need to find something else to spew about, something else to keep the troops agitated and forking over money---and we're off to the races with "knife rights." Simple organizational evolution......

[benEzra]

81. So the NRA manipulated Customs into this stupidity to make the NRA look good?

What the hell does any of this have to do with the NRA, except for them weighing in on it a month after the fact?

Customs started this---reclassifying one-hand-opening pocketknives as "switchblades" is just idiotic, IMO---and the backlash started with Knife Rights, not the NRA, although I suppose the NRA commenting on it a month after the fact is plenty of justification for some nice diatribes upthread. But Knife Rights and the knife/gun forums were all over this over a month ago, and the regulations comment period closed over a week ago.

[Paladin]

83. I Stand By My Comments. (n/t)

[-..__...]

102. It's a method to their madness...

kind of thing.... like the Brady and VPC chicken littles seeking to "expand it's purview" by citing "terrorism" and "environmental" concerns to further their agenda.

[JVS]

68. Switchblades should be legal. They're so fucking cool.

[Kurska]

69. Pretty soon we'll be required to clip our finger nails, don't want them to be to sharp now.

[The Straight Story]

73. It discriminates against people with only one hand

:)

[-..__...]

98. Ain't government controls and regulations great?

I mean... if it's all in the name of "public safety" and "for the good of all" mentality; so why would any "reasonable" person oppose it? :shrug:

:sarcasm: