If someone is abused as a kid, then grows up and abuses kids themselves, do we blame them?

[cbdo2007]

Or are they the victim cause they're so f'ed up from their own childhood that they didn't know it was wrong?

[DireStrike]

1. In other words, of what value is the concept of original sin?

Cycles can be broken but only at a cost.

[JonQ]

2. We blame them

Previous abuse does not give you license to harm another.

If someone robs you, do you then get the right to go rob a complete stranger to make up for it?

[MADem]

3. People sometimes have brains and don't use them. If people abuse, they should be blamed.

There is a cycle of abuse, but you can't excuse it and say "Awww, he gets a pass because he's been abused himself." Naaah, that doesn't cut it.

You have to place blame before you can address the problem. Actions have consequences. Part of the consequences, in addition to punishment, should be psychiatric treatment.

[proteus_lives]

4. Once you starting hurting someone else, you're no longer the victim.

NOTHING excuses harming another person. No matter how much you hurt, are angry, are sad or how fucked up you are.

If harm a child, you deserve to spend the rest of your life in prison, your past no longer matters.

[lisa58]

5. the mature thing to do is to stop of pattern of abuse....

...I'm not saying it's easy - and forgiveness for all concerned is a necessary component - but it can be done.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

6. "Blame" is a useless concept. One has to be practical and aim to protect society, that's all. -nt

[timeforpeace]

7. It has to stop somewhere, with that person deciding it goes no further.

[Javaman]

8. It stops with one taking personal responsibility.

I came from an abusive household, I however, do not abuse.

Through years of counseling, I stopped it from continuing into my generation.

So, as an adult, to blame ones faults on a parent, is nothing more than passive aggressive behavior. IMO.

[blueamy66]

22. So, let's look at a female 4 year old that was abused by a male

babysitter.

Fast forward 11 years....that female is now babysitting herself. Do you really want to blame/prosecute/whatever a 15 year old for now abusing her charge? And I'm not talking serious sexual abuse by the female.

[LAGC]

26. What kind of abuse are you talking about then?

That's why we give judges discretion when sentencing, and juveniles more regard than adults convicted of the same crime.

But if she committed sex abuse, she could still be labeled a sex offender and have to register for life, depending on the state.

[blueamy66]

28. How about kissing the child?

Just to see what "it is like"?

[LAGC]

33. I don't think that is a crime.

There was a case here locally not too long back where a man would grab little boys in the super-market and forcibly kiss them (on the lips). While several of the boys (caught on camera) never reported it, one eventually did, and I believe he was arrested and charged with kidnapping for detaining the boy while he was doing it. I don't know if the charge held up in court (the media never followed through on the case unless I just missed it), but it was a chilling account none-the-less.

It does raise a lot of red flags though... first it may be just "harmless" kissing, but where does that kind of behavior lead? I certainly wouldn't let said babysitter watch my kids anymore if she was found to be kissing them...

[Javaman]

27. So, I also said IMO.

I don't ever claim to believe I know all the answers or all situations.

[blueamy66]

29. I didn't mean any disrespect.

Just pointing out that there are hundreds of "situations."

[Annces]

9. If there were a test for becoming a parent, I wonder how many would pass n/t

[sunfluer]

18. Interesting point...

I envision a future where parenting will be a privilege for the elite; a select few. I imagine a system similar to China where it will be one child but taking it to the next level.

A person must recognize they need help to stop the cycle of abuse. A person severely abused as a child have very deep seated scars. It will take a lot of effort to heal those deep wounds. No one should be allowed to get away with harming another person. Abusers who have been abused need help if at all possible.

[Realityhack]

10. Most of the time yes we do blame them...

and rightly so IMO.
In a few cases the childhood abuse was so severe etc. that we blame their psychological condition and they are not guilty by reason of insanity and we just lock them up where they can't continue to abuse people.

Remember 2/3rds of abused children do not go on to abuse their children (approx. stat).

[rucky]

11. Which one will get them to stop?

[Winterblues]

12. Awww they're just "good ol' boys"

:shrug: I believe that for someone to ask such a question is troubling..

[Captain Hilts]

13. That's why I just don't feel comfortable supporting or condemning Jackson. nt

[sunfluer]

20. He's more to be pitied then censored. n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

14. Virtually all child abusers were once victims. However, most victims

do not become child abusers. I think people need to be held responsible for their behavior and not use their past as an excuse for present actions.

That said, I will add that when treating perpetrators of abuse, I have always treated their own abuse issues--sometimes as the major initial focus of the treatment, sometimes only after cognitive-behavioral work to give them some control over their actions in the present.

[LAGC]

30. I've heard the "vampire" analogy before...

Its too bad pedophiles can't be harmed when exposed to direct sunlight or otherwise taken out before they "infect" new victims with their disease... but even some "vampires" realize what they are and work to fight against the greater evil. Where is "Blade" when you need him?

[sinkingfeeling]

15. 'We' blame them: take a look at the number of felons who were abused as children.

[Gormy Cuss]

16. We blame them but the prior abuse can be a mitigating factor. n/t

[Rebubula]

17. Each person is responsible...

...for their own sins.

You can point out some correlations of adult behavior and how it is rooted in childhood experiences - but give NO FUCKING QUARTER to anyone that abuses a child. Those that continue the cycle know it is wrong (how could they not??) but they desire to inflict the same pain onto someone else in an attempt to lessen their own pain.

As stated (paraphrased here) in 'Red Dragon' (first appearance on Hannibal Lector - see Movie 'Manhunter' and skip remake 'Red Dragon') - My heart bleeds for the young abused child, but as an adult - the sick fuck needs to be put down without mercy.

[LWolf]

19. Better:

We set "blame" aside and increase efforts, and ability, to protect children from abuse.

Why fight over "blame?" Why not put all that energy into prevention?

I "blame" my grandson's mother for his trauma, for the years of intensive time, love, money, and therapy we have poured into him, in the effort to heal the damage she did and help him to function socially. She caused his problems.

I also pity her, because I know how she got to be the way she is; I've met her mother. Her mother? I don't pity her so much, even though I'm sure her dysfunctions came from somewhere.

Still, my family's time, energy, etc., are focused on healing, not on blame.

It's more productive.

[Heidi]

21. Obviously, we blame them. At the same time, we could go a long way toward preventing future abuse

by having a health care system in place that would ensure support and treatment for every abused child. I don't see the psychological disorders arising from childhood abuse any differently than I see physical illnesses that arise from environmental factors; both need help and if we as a culture care are serious about doing more than discussing the salacious details of abuse, we need to pony up the resources to help end the cycle.

[stray cat]

23. of course

[FirstLight]

24. God, I hate this ... are you kidding me?

Are you asking because of MJ and his problems and allegations?

There are people who know they have issues, people who may have buried the events...and often times the behaviors are trigered by them having children of their own...

But the difference between being triggered, having the stuff 'come up' and ACTING on it are huge. Victim or not, screwed up or not... either you get therapy, find an outlet for your issues and DEAL with them - or you prey on the innocent and/or damage the psyches of thos closest to you... There is NO justification... none. The "I was abuseed as a child" defense doesn't work for ME, and for most of society.

It is time for people in general to take responsibility for their shit and work on breaking patterns of abuse, all types, period.

I have a mildly dysfunctional family dynamic compard to some, but I still have gone through the work of insuring I don't make the same mistakes as were exampled to me...I still have alot of work to do on certain fronts...but I am willing and open do look at those issues and accept the learning curve as I grow into a (hopefuly) more balanced and functional adult.

If we are going to have a functional society, we have to all take responsibility for our actions and reactions...and get help for what is too big or damaging for us to handle...

[slampoet]

25. Yes.

[firehorse]

31. Every adult makes choices.

Not everyone who was abused or victimized becomes an abuser or victimizer. There are daily choices to be made. Adults also have the choice to get help and recovery.

[Control-Z]

32. My sister and I were both abused.

Neither of us ever hit our children. I've never felt like hitting my children. What I mean, is that nothing has ever stirred that kind of anger in me. I've never felt that kind of impulse with anyone.

Now that my kids are teens, I would like to shut them up on occasion, lol, but I still feel no impulse to ever hurt them. I do raise my voice more than I'd like. But, more often than not, it is just to be heard above them.

In observing my father, and being on the receiving end of his wrath, I do think it was something kind of built-in in him. Something he couldn't help. And it became one of my fears before I had kids - that if I ever did have children I would have some hidden anger rise up in me and overwhelm me. Thankfully, it just wasn't in me. My kids' presence only made me want to hug, and kiss, and snuggle them endlessly. (My mother-in-law actually accused me of kissing my kids too much and showing them too much affection. WTF?)

But I consider myself lucky, and "spared" in a way. Because, like I said, I think the anger, and lack of control, may be inherent in abusers. I know how much my father loved me. And I know how much he hurt me. And it seemed like he just had no control over his violence.

I guess what I'm saying, is that abusers need help more than punishment. They need to be held accountable, but I don't think they can just "will" their anger and violence away. I think professional help is necessary for most of them.

edit: spelling

[Jackpine Radical]

34. I think your response is common.

Many people who were subjected to abuse in childhood resolve that they will never abuse others. And often they fear that they carry within them some sort of "bad seed" that will cause them to hurt others despite their best intentions. These fears, BTW, are seldom if ever realized.