*Michael Jackson thread*-Have we discussed the SCUM that Joseph Jackson is?

[underpants]

I had this conversation with another father as our daughters were in ballet class. He is a musician to boot. Neither one of us could really fathom what Joe Jackson or Brian Wilson's dad or the glam-onto parents of the kids who sued Michael Jackson could have possibly thought was reasonable for the BASIC needs of a child- a normal childhood that we both had. This amazes me. We see Joe Jackson "grieving" but he is the cause of the entire thing especially the clearly dysfunctional being that he produced. He abused his child. "Abuse" may seem subjective but we (the dad and I) have no financial stake in 4 years old taking ballet for crying out loud we are doing the same stuff our parents did, what is supposed to be done. I am not sick of the Jackson media blitz because a lot or people clearly loved the man. I was a fan of the 5 stuff but I was a kid and I was told to like it (it does really still hold up) but the point is that an abusive parent is in the limelight for a vicious circle that needs to be mentioned and NOW not in the "Oh yeah..." 5 months later when everyone has forgotten it and it seems like piling-on. Joe Jackson should be the sad moral of this story.

********************
Controversies

Jackson's image as a father was tainted throughout the late 1980s through the mid 1990s in which the media reported stories told by some of his children that Jackson was abusive towards his children. When he managed his family, he ordered each of them to call him "Joseph", which led to several siblings being estranged from their father.

In 2003, in an interview for BBC TV, Joseph admitted to using physical punishment on his children and also voiced his disapproval of homosexuality.<4>

Michael Jackson claimed that from a young age he was physically and emotionally abused by his father, enduring incessant rehearsals, whippings and name-calling, but also contends that his father being a strict disciplinarian played a large part of his success.<5><6> In one altercation — later recalled by Marlon Jackson - Joseph held Michael upside down by one leg and "pummeled him over and over again with his hand, hitting him on his back and buttocks."<7> Joseph would also trip up or push his male children into walls. One night while Michael was asleep, Joseph climbed into his room through the bedroom window. Wearing a fright mask, he entered the room screaming and shouting. Joseph said he wanted to teach his children not to leave the window open when they went to sleep. For years afterward, Michael suffered nightmares about being kidnapped from his bedroom.<7>

Michael first spoke openly about his childhood abuse in a 1993 interview with Oprah Winfrey. He said that during his childhood he often cried from loneliness and would sometimes get sick or start to vomit upon seeing his father.<8><9><10><11> In Michael's other high profile interview, Living with Michael Jackson (2003), the singer covered his face with his hand and began crying when talking about his childhood abuse.<7> Jackson recalled that Joseph sat in a chair with a belt in his hand as he and his siblings rehearsed and that "if you didn't do it the right way, he would tear you up, really get you."<12>

Current work

Joseph is currently hosting a boot camp for aspiring hip-hop artists, both to move his career to the next stage and to change what he sees as distasteful about the genre. "Everybody is liking rap now. I'm going to have to clean it up a little bit, all that vulgar language out there. I'm going to have to keep that clean, with nice singing in it, and great music behind it".

Jackson, following the June 25, 2009 death of Michael Jackson, attended the BET Awards on June 28. At the event, the patriarch talked with reporters on the red carpet and plugged his new projects, which earned him new criticism from the public.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Jackson

[begin_within]

1. Is he the root of Michael's personal problems?

[underpants]

2. Yes

[begin_within]

3. It's awful how parents can screw up their children so much.

[CoffeeCat]

6. Joe and his enabling wife...

Both of those parents are to blame.

Joe was a horrid abuser. The stuff we are reading about is sick. Joe did not love these children.
He sounds like a psychopath.

And that mother of his...doing nothing while this beast hit, terrorized and traumatized her own children.

I really hope that piece-of-shit Joe finally gets the spotlight shined on him for what he truly is---an abuser
who caused devastating harm to his children.

LaToya said Joe sexually abused her and the oldest daughter.

I think this piece of shit may get his comeuppance and boy, does he really deserve it. Michael's pain and his
"acting out" were an extension of his childhood trauma.

Joe Jackson deserves to be accountable and judged for the damage he has done.

[underpants]

8. That is a very good post

I don't know about the Latoya aspect but it is reasonable for that to be real

the worst part is that I would surprised if Joe is in any way financially strapped. I would be shocked if he didn't keep an arms-length between him and the kids in terms of liabilities but took their money along the way.

[ejpoeta]

23. i believe that we all get what's coming to us in the end.....

What goes around comes around.... and we all have to answer for ourselves someday.

[niceypoo]

47. Unless you order torture

[Triana]

46. psychopath - he is..

...he cheated on MJ's Mom too, and he had to WATCH that as a kid - I mean he knew about it and saw his dad go into hotel rooms with other women. In addition to the emotional and physical abuse, WTF kind of life is that for a little boy? Ugh.

If Satan beat his kids, he likely also beat his wife too. Not heard about that, though, it's an assumption.

Mrs. Jackson - by allowing this in her life - is his enabler.

[Butch350]

55. He's the seed, tree, and the root!

[YOY]

65. That and being filthy rich without an authoritive figure (be it friend or family) saying "No"

Mike really needed someone to tell him "no" on occasion or so it seems to me. Prince has the same problem. Elvis had the same problem. Madonna seems to have somewhat of a similar problem.

[Triana]

4. I call him .... SATAN.

:grr:

[bdamomma]

29. he pretty much looks like him too.

Damn that man, he really screwed up his children.

No wonder Michael was trying to change his looks. And the father still denies that he ever layed a hand on his children, what a bastard he is.

[crim son]

5. I don't know if we have but I've seen Michael talk about his abuse

on a number of occasions. It seems that Joe Jackson was mentally diseased, and he passed his diseas on, in a form, to Michael, at least.

Parents make mistakes. What gives me the shudders is the fact that Joe Jackson saw what Michael became and apparently was not willing or able to step in and do what it was his moral responsibility to do. It's very hard not to hate him and people like him.

[ejpoeta]

22. My sister tried to tell my dad he had a problem, and he refused to hear it.

She was diagnosed as bipolar, and since it is genetic, as she told me, it had to come from someone... and it explained so much. but my dad would never hear of it.... and refused to get any help for anything. i don't know if he had a mental thing, but it would have made a lot of sense looking back. There is something about that Joe Jackson that gives me the creeps, frankly. And we don't know if his family tried to do anything to get him any help.... but my guess would be that joe jackson probably wouldn't have done so, even if anyone else wanted to or did.

[lildreamer316]

7. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5946688&mesg_id=5946688

[magellan]

9. People generally underestimate how badly emotional abuse

...can scar a child, never mind physical abuse on top of it. I'm closing on 50 and still battle every single day with low self-esteem along with a range of other dysfunctional responses to situations that others breeze through because of emotional abuse. And the parent responsible has been dead for 30 years.

The worst thing is not every child will react the same way. Some are more sensitive than others and it cripples them for life. Others learn coping mechanisms, good or bad.

I had heard about Joe's abuse of the kids long ago and for me it explained so much about MJ.

[Skittles]

10. yes

important for anyone who sees emotional abuse to step in - doesn't matter if the parent yells at you (my response to, "It's none of your business" - "CHILDREN ARE EVERYONE'S BUSINESS" - you're letting the child know it is NOT OK

[magellan]

14. I understand why strangers don't step in

Many probably don't recognize it for what it is, if they haven't been through it themselves. Also, it often doesn't happen in public. My parent had a great skill for charming people socially, completely different to the home behavior.

I asked for help once as a small child. That person met my parent socially and queried it. It was laughed off, I was called a little dramatist. Later, at home, I was threatened to never open my mouth again about what went on in our house. I never did till many years later, when they were dead and I finally had to deal with the ruin I was making of my life.

Yes, right or wrong, I feel I know a bit about the demons MJ dealt with.

[cabluedem]

16. My aunt & uncle 2 doors down knew but never did a thing, not even call the cops. nt

[magellan]

19. That sucks

Did you feel betrayed by them? Did you ever confront them?

We had family members who knew what was going on too. They blamed us kids for it. Still do. I've excised them from my life.

[ejpoeta]

43. my dad's family said a lot of things during the time my sister was suing my dad for custody.

there are hard feelings with some of my siblings towards those people. No one wanted to hurt my dad. It broke my heart to walk away from him at 16.... but they didn't have to live in that house.... i sent my sister down the street to a neighbor to make sure she got something to eat and could get warm. they didn't know!! they didn't know what it was like to feel your whole body tense up at the sound of your father's voice.... fear at what dad you were going to get this time.... the good one, or the one that kicked you for no reason.... They had plenty to say to my sisters, but not a one of them did anything to help us. and I don't think I would have been able to have the relationship with my dad I had later had we not done what we did. i didn't talk to him for two years, except for a letter I sent to him telling him that i still loved him and why we had to leave. It's easy for someone on the outside to have plenty to say.... I am convinced that is why my oldest sister became a lawyer. She does a lot with family court and acts as the representative for the kids. She has no kids of her own.... never wanted them.... but she would definitely step in and say something to anyone if she saw anything she sees as abuse.

[Raschel]

80. Do any of the Jackson sisters have children? I know Janet and Latoya don't.

I'm not sure about Rebbe. I always assumed that was due to the abuse.

[Butch350]

60. Here too cabluedem...

I feel and experienced your pain. The Beatles saved my sanity and helped me cope through
the hard times. My dad use to whip my but anytime he got mad at anything or anyone other than me.

[cabluedem]

15. People bitch about CPS but you and I could have used them way back when. Same for MJ. nt

[magellan]

18. Yes, but with people like MJ

...I think it's a double-edged sword, a blessing/curse scenario. Our greatest artists are often tragic figures who've been made to feel "set apart" from everyone else. And certainly a great part of MJ's genius came from his ability to translate his emotional isolation into music that struck a chord with so many. If CPS had intervened early on in his life, would he have been as successful?

I suppose similar can be said of all of us from abusive backgrounds, though. I know I have strengths and talents I wouldn't have if not for the way I was raised. Some days I'm glad for those things, other days I'd give them up in a heartbeat to be someone else entirely. I bet you can say the same. And I bet so could MJ.

[hunter]

75. I suspect he'd be a greater success, and he'd still be alive too.

You don't know. Maybe Michael Jackson was gay and he'd have grown up to be an openly gay superstar with a huge following, so much so that gay people would have simply been accepted into the more general civil rights movement.

Imagine the 21st century kicking off with a Michael Jackson wedding extravaganza...

Some people do find incredible strengths arising from their suffering, but I think everyone would be more successful without it.

The idea that greatness arises from great suffering is part of our culture, and it is a very destructive myth. The only thing that arises from suffering is more suffering, and the only true success is breaking that miserable chain.

Michael Jackson created some magnificent art but he was unable to break that chain of suffering and it killed him.

[ejpoeta]

25. I have no love for CPS myself....

They take kids away who should be with their parents, while kids who obviously need to be taken from their parents are left. When I was 16 CPS came to our house... my sister was 11. We had no heat. We were afraid to try to start the furnace because it would catch on fire. So it was friggin cold in the house. We had no running water... we had no food.... and that stupid social worker told me that I was 16 and could leave anytime I wanted. Which may be true. I told the lady I was not leaving my sister there alone. And the lady left and that was the only time we ever saw her.

My sister ended up suing my dad for custody of my little sister. There wee six of us kids by the way. My brother and I and my little sister lived at home with our dad. He had lost it... He took the phone out of the house and left the answering machine.... it was a cordless phone with an answering machine.... so we had a phone hidden behind my dresser that didn't ring. he was convinced we were all conspiring against him and we weren't supposed to talk to our siblings who lived outside the house. Well, they came in and took pictures.... or the toilet full of what toilets are used for because we had no water to flush it. All the other things.... and the judge apparently let the social services have it... he was very mad they left Barbi in that house. my sister got custody of barbi. and we went to live with my sister.

As for Michael Jackson.... at that time things were different. Parents could do virtually anything to their kids and no one batted an eyelash. So I doubt social services would have done anything for the jackson kids. Especially given the high profile of the family.

[ejpoeta]

21. Emotional is worse in some ways... because you can't see it. physical

scars heal.... but that record player still plays in my head.... 'you're worthless, no good nothing...' if you hear it enough times, you believe it. especially from a parent. Even though I reconciled with my dad, and he spent the rest of his life it seemed trying to make up for all that stuff back then.... And yes, we all react differently... I know that I ended up in the hospital for depression when I was 21 or 22.

[Triana]

41. Emotional is absolutely worse - both as a kid and adult..

..emotional abuse is worse than physical. Me - attempted suicide - twice by the age of 21.

Another thing is that kids that grow up around abuse are more likely to BE abusers or be ABUSED when they're adults - not only by intimate partners, but - everyone. It's what they're used to, and though it hurts - it's still what they're familiar with - it's the devil they know rather than the devil they don't. What they're most "comfortable" with isn't necessarily what's best for even good for them. It's just what they're used to.

[ejpoeta]

48. I know.... I often think that.... I should be abused, and my husband should be an abuser.

He watched his dad beat his mom.... his father was a real asshole. still is, frankly. and yet, we went down to florida after his dad had a stroke to try to help him. and he acted like he wanted to get help.... drug user.... but in the end refused to go, and then tried to accuse bob of using our kids as pawns.... bob told him getting clean was the only chance he'd ever have to see the kids.... that's not using them as pawns... we don't want them around a drunk. but bob doesn't abuse me.... and i think that walking away at 16, I refuse to let myself be treated like that ever again. It was empowering. I could have easily ended up in that though, i realize that. I guess I got lucky. Things aren't perfect, but we both have made a conscious decision about how we raise our kids. It's tough sometimes, because the things you were taught are the things that come easiest... you have to consciously decide not to spank... not to discipline the way you were disciplined. but we keep working at it.

[Triana]

73. He's not using your kids as pawns - he's just refusing to be an enabler

good for him!

[ejpoeta]

76. his dad was just trying to hurt him. i think it's harder for me then for bob.

i get upset FOR him... LOL! want to protect him. he seems to just shrug it off. at least bob tried. there isn't anything more we can do.

[Triana]

38. Me too magellan. But my parents are still alive. I've always been sad for the Jackson kids

after hearing about how they were abused (from several sources) long ago and then again recently. It explained a lot. As someone who also grew up in a violent and abusive household, I empathsized. I can fully understand it. And can even see how/why MJ behaved as he did in some ways as a result of it.

People do underestimate it. "Kids are resilient" they say. Well, if they're lucky, they learn to cope. Or not. Either way they ARE irreparably damaged and this damage will and does affect them for their entire lives. Even if they are "coping" it's inevitable that some life event will bring it all back to them like a train wreck and they'll lose their ability to "cope" any longer.

They fight and struggle with it. They grow up not knowing what "normal" or "happy" is. They find substitutes or try to create their own and recreate scenarios in adulthood as they experienced in childhood in an effort to finally get the love and acceptance as adults they didn't get then - often with disasterous results - see MJ.

It takes expensive, extensive psychotherapy for the adult abused child to break the patterns of behavior that were programmed into them when they were abused as kids. It's not cheap. It's not easy. And even that doesn't always work.

[Maraya1969]

61. Magellan

:hug:

I'm really sorry you had to go through that.

[Control-Z]

70. It sounds like I am a lot like you

All these years later, I'm still a frightened child in many ways because of my father's abuse. He died more than 30 years ago and I'm still a product of his abuse.

I thought about that years ago when I heard about Michael Jackson's relationship with his father. Of course, I always thought he at least had his talent and success to fall back on. I guess some of us never really escape that kind of childhood.

[lonestarnot]

11. So, that's it? That's all you have to discuss tonight? And my posts are fails?

Snort :rofl:

[sandnsea]

12. They were also Jehovahs Witness

and while anybody is entitled to their religious beliefs - in this instance it meant that there was no reprieve from the daily grind. No birthdays, holidays, anniversaries, celebrations of any sort. I'm sure they must have had picnics and that sort of thing, but I think there's something special about a holiday celebration. He didn't even have that. Just abuse and rehearsal and performance, endlessly.

[davepc]

13. Elizabeth Taylor gave Jackson his 1st Christmas morning in 1993.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRq4cNq7iZA

[Cass]

51. Thanks for that video. She was a very good friend to him.

It is heartbreaking to hear him say he felt guilty about it and went to the bathroom afterward to cry.

[LWolf]

64. "Afraid of Dogs."

That huge ranch, exotic animals...

he would have been better off with a dog. The unconditional love of a dog would have done him a world of good.

[Triana]

74. OMG I LOVE this video. How sweet! n/t

[EFerrari]

85. I'm so glad they were friends.

[cboy4]

17. And naturally, look who's standing right next to him

:eyes:

[patrice]

28. Oh Al!!! Just when I was starting to get really proud of you!! : - (((((((((((

There ARE lines we shouldn't cross just because we can.

[MNDemNY]

34. Is Al ill?

[a la izquierda]

63. My husband and I wondered the same thing.

We're originally from NJ, and have watched Al our whole lives...he looks terrible.

[Catherine Vincent]

68. When Chris Matthews asked him about the weight loss, he told him it was the recession

:)

[checks-n-balances]

71. take away the hat, j jackson looks like a woman with a moustache

total gross out, knowing what we know about him

[ejpoeta]

20. i often wonder what michael jsckson COULD have been were it not for

what he went through as a child. It is one thing when your child wants to be famous. Doesn't every kid. But even if he ever wanted it for himself, his father seemed to have turned it into some ugly thing... a lot of parents do that. Turn a kid into some kind of gravy train. There are so many things wrong with that.... A parent's job is to help their child succeed, sure... but what is success.... as a parent I see my job as giving my children the tools to get by in this world and the desire to be something.... anything. I encourage things like a thirst for knowledge and a love of reading. If my daughter wants to do some extracurricular activity, I will do my best to help her be able to do that. We can't always afford it, but we'll try. I would never push them into anything though....

My husband had expressed sorrow for Michael Jackson at the shed where they keep all their parts for his job... (they don't have an office or anything.) the other guy was like, why, he was rich!! Well, that solves everything, doesn't it. Frankly, if that is rich, I wouldn't want it. My dad died surrounded by his children. And no one was jockeying for position. No one was trying to get at his money. We were all just trying to do what HE wanted... what he would have wanted. It sounds like michael jackson is set to be victimized again by his own family. I can't imagine if his childhood was so awful, how he would want his parents taking care of his kids. At the very least his father...

Yes, Jackson may have been very wealthy in money.... But he lacked so many basic things that many of us take for granted. As far as I am concerned, no amount of money or fame is worth all those little things... the little lessons I have forgotten over the years, but still remain as part of who I am today. And I didn't have the greatest childhood either.... but I knew my parents loved me.... and I loved them... and I got to go do stupid stuff kids do and learn and grow.... and I bet that is something michael jackson never got to have.

[patrice]

30. You have to wonder that about all oppressed children - even those who aren't beaten.

or those who appear to "have it all".

[niceypoo]

32. The main thing that MJ lacked in life...

...was people willing to say, "No," to him.

In my internship we resettled several, 'lost boys,' from the Sudan. Many of them were on their own from age five or six. They wandered in groups for thousands of miles over a period of years with little adult contact and no adult guidance or supervision. They were exposed to thirst, war, famine, being hunted like animals and a million other deprivations. The ones that we resettled here came out as hard working and responsible. They were the most psychologically traumatized kids that have ever came out of a war, according to experts, but most of them emerged as grateful adults.

Jacko's dad may have been a prick, but MJ was an adult, and as such, responsible for his own actions.

[ejpoeta]

36. sure we all make choices. and certainly we are ultimately responsible for our

own behavior. i still feel bad for him and what happened to him.... and the vultures that seem to be ready to attack to get a piece of what's left. and those kids... i hope they don't end being the rope in tug of war... not because of what's best for them, but whatever money having them involves.

[eilen]

24. It's my suspicion that his father did worse to him than he was

willing to admit. MJ as a child was the gravy train with that voice. A voice that interestingly did not change.

[MNDemNY]

31. Better singing through chemistry?

[niceypoo]

45. Eunuch?

Sometimes I wonder if Joe didn't have Michael castrated.

[YOY]

66. And a constantly feminine appearance. Even before the plastic.

His brothers don't look like that at all.

Then again...sometimes people just naturally turn out with features strongly resembling the opposite gender.

[Catherine Vincent]

69. I think the voice thing runs in the family

Michael's older brother, Jackie, had the same voice tone.

[WolverineDG]

26. That's what happens when you see your kid as a meal ticket

and not a kid. :grr: It seems that with all the child-labor protections, we still have the same problems that Jackie Cooper had--parents totally controlling everything a child performer does & the money they make. I think we've reached the point where I think parents should be banned from being the child performer's manager/publicist/employee.

It sickens me that Joe & Katherine made money off the kids they were abusing, & now they're seeing nothing but dollar signs in Michael's estate.

dg

[patrice]

27. Wow! That guy's a piece of work . . . going to an awards dinner 3 days after his son's death!

Someone should write a poem or a song about the irony of that behavior.

Michael "had it all" and he HAD nothing and Joe worships still at the altar upon which Michael was sacrificed.

Wow, just fracking-Wow!

[bdamomma]

35. Michael's father did not give a crap about Michael.

just a money grabber and he is on TV talking about a record company!!! It was also mentioned how he did not know Janet was going to speak at the BET awards show, those kids have nothing for their father, understandably so.

[patrice]

42. Wouldn't business associates wonder if he would use them too?

Maybe they WANT to be used. Maybe that's what they're all aboout?

Seems to me that real trust would be an important element in those kinds of relationships, successful one's anyway, by any HUMAN measure.

[Lancer]

33. We all saw this coming.

Joe Jackson is a monster.

Everyone, everyone grieves in his or her own way, and it's not appropriate for others to question it. But what I have seen from Joe Jackson in the past few days is not grief, it's pimping out his dead son for profit. Personally, I don't think the senior Jackson has the business acumen to run a lemonade stand, much less a record company.

And he says he's running a "boot camp" for hip hop artists? Now there's truth in advertising.

Joe Jackson seems to have ruled the family by fear and violence. Many families don't know how to get help for a member in their midst who has emotional and mental health problems. In this case I think everyone was terrified of him. In other cases family members simply don't know or understand that their loved one has a real mental disorder that can be tamed and managed. Instead they blame themselves: "I'm a bad person, I'm worthless, or he wouldn't be treating me this way."

The Jackson family is a Greek tragedy, down to Michael and his children wearing masks.

[bdamomma]

39. the whole situation is sad.

let his father keep on talking it will show to the public what an arrogant ignorant POS his father really is. That man is not grieving for his son.

[Jennicut]

37. I have worked with abused children. Its never leaves them, its always there.

Some were able to overcome it but many of the kids I worked with were haunted by the abuse. I was scared for what they might turn into as adults. They had been beaten, sexually abused and/or neglected. I was afraid for many of them. They had nightmares, threatened to kill themselves at 7 years old. One little boy actually tried to touch me inappropriately. He was 10 and I was 24 and he did not understand why it was wrong. And these kids were in a boys home and had limited contact with their parents, former caretakers. Michael Jackson never got away from his father. Its very sad. Yes, he was an adult and the responsibility to get over his past was ultimately up to him but the situation was never good for him. He had plenty of money to have enablers around him once he got older and no one ever confronted him (except reporters) or helped him or were able to get through to him. Joe Jackson was a total monster and his press conference where he talked about his music label while it should have been about his son's death was terrible. He is a monster.

[bdamomma]

40. the BBC special that they have been showing Living with Michael Jackson

was very sad. I hope his father pays dearly what was done to them all.

[Jennicut]

50. Yes, it was. Its sad to me that this man was looking for his childhood his whole life.

He was looking for any kind of happiness which is why I think he decided to get surrogates to have children for him.
His father is just a retched human being. I am actually not too happy the kids will go live with his parents. I know they are elderly but still, it does not seem right. With one of his brothers or sisters might be better in my opinion.

[bdamomma]

52. Michael's kids need some sort of stability. I hope Joe stays away from them.

yea, Michael and his siblings really never had a childhood, just shoving them around doing appearances in different cities and places it can definitely scar a person.

[rocktivity]

58. DING DING DING! Jennicut, you're our grand prize winner!

...(Micheal Jackson) was looking for his childhood his whole life.

Yep--the Neverland Ranch, the sleeping with children not his own, the "arranged" marriages, the ridiculous names for his own children, the obsession with McCauly Caulkin. I don't quite buy the stories of his vitiligo and breaking his nose--I believe his self-image was such that he would have bleached his skin and gotten all that plastic surgery anyway. Michael "avenged" his father by 1) no longer being the person who Joe had created, and 2) trying to take a mulligan on his childhood. Throw some religion-induced sexual insecurity, and it's hard to imagine Michael's story having a different kind of ending.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Raschel]

79. I believe he had vitiligo. I would like to know what caused his fingernails to turn

brown though. I believe that's why he started wearing gloves and taping his fingers.

[Lancer]

56. I never saw this when it first aired,

but I watched it Sunday. One of the saddest documentaries ever made. What I took away from it was that MJ really was a gentle soul, but horribly lonely and tragically regressed sexually. He says he wanted to adopt a boy and a girl from each continent because he loved children, and I believe that. I don't believe he wanted to pay for prey. He really believed he was a child among other children. He says he *was* Peter Pan.

He didn't seem to have any adult friends, except for mother figures like Elizabeth Taylor, (and Liza, and Diana Ross; other stars who also had no childhoods).

I also saw that he tried to buy happiness (spending $6 million in a store in Las Vegas that seemed to sell nothing but big Greek urns). He just bought things without even looking at them. (Like Charles Foster Kane.)

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. All I can think about, is how much better he might have been if Joseph

had been a different father. We're all assuming that the father is responsible for Michael's greatness, but, what if the man was just so gifted that even under a tortuous childhood would not deny his talent?

[bdamomma]

49. maybe we should just have a forum about Michael Jackson

the next couple of weeks or months there will be alot of news coming out. I am very curious about the Toxicology report.

[Sweet Freedom]

53. Jackson's dad aced out of will

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/jacksons-dad-aced-out-of-will/

Michael Jackson signed a will in 2002 providing for his children and his mom, but leaving nothing to daddy Joe -- this according to the Wall Street Journal.

[bdamomma]

54. read that,

and very understandable.

[rocktivity]

57. I read that the will also says Paul McCartney gets his Beatles publishing rights back

I hope that's true, since I'm sure Michael never doubted he'd outlive Paul...

:evilgrin:
rocktivity

[troubledamerican]

83. MJ sold half stake in those rights to Sony for $$ whilst he burned money

Sony in turn was keeping him afloat with financial aid. It's said Sony chose not to sue in fear of a worldwide Sony boycott if they "attacked" Michael.

[spanone]

59. ad nauseum

[shadowknows69]

62. I think we've covered just about everything.

[Mike Daniels]

67. It's said that it's a tragedy when a parent outlives a child.

However, in this case I think "travesty" best describes fate allowing Joe Jackson to outlive Michael.

[okieinpain]

72. parenting is a really delicate thing, I know people that did nothing but

cater to their kids, and they are just as screwed up as mj appeared to be. hell sometimes I wonder where the hell my kids get some of their thoughts from.

[ejpoeta]

77. kids need boundaries. they need you to tell them no. i know people who give their kids everything.

their kids have all the toys and never want for anything.... but they don't seem very happy. my daughter wants things all the time... but she doesn't get them. i can recognize what that is... at least when the people I know do it... they feel guilty because they are working all the time or whatever.... the things become how they show love.... the kids don't want that, but they seem to learn that those things equal love so that is what they want... then they can't figure out why they are not happy.

[Imagevision]

78. Joe Jackson stays true to his character right to the end..."I'm starting a new record label" c'mon d

[marshall]

81. Joseph: "Michael cried all the way to the bank"

I recall seeing an interview with Joe Jackson where he said this. Basically he was taking credit for Michael's success, saying that the abuse made him try harder.

[ronnykmarshall]

82. Joe will be setting up merch booths at the funeral.

and charge people $10 for an "Offical" picture with MJ in the coffin.

[troubledamerican]

84. Sounds like a Republican. Seriously.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

86. Joe Jackson is a creep

He seemingly messed up most, if not all, of his kids Yes, you can credit him with instilling drive and a passion for perfection and success in Michael Jackson, but you can do all that without being an abusive, sadistic, perverted, idiot-excuse for a father. And, frankly in Michael Jackson's case, I actually think that any benefits that Joe Jackson provided to Michael Jackson as a father was far outweighed by the emotional damage that he did to him

I was watching a tribute to Michael Jackson on one of our local tv channels and they were playing hits from his younger days in the Jackson 5. And it was just agonizing to watch this sweet, young, charming boy with such a warm smile and a beautiful face and to know that, even as he was singing his little heart out and smiling for the cameras, he was probably shuddering in fear inside that he'd screw up somehow and get a beating or a verbal thrashing from his father for it. And it sent chills down my spine to think that, at the time this video was being made, the foundations for the train-wreck that Michael Jackson's life would become was going on behind the scens. As a devoted Michael Jackson fan, part of me just wanted to reach in there and stop it! OK, I know that sounds crazy but that was how I felt

It worries me that Michael Jackson's kids are going to live with the grandparents. I'm sure the grandmother is a wonderful person but the fact that the grandfather will be a constant part of their lives -the same grandfather who effectively played a big role in destroying their father's life -is not encouraging and quite scary really