Why is MJ ripped apart by the media and woody allen is loved???

[brettdale]

MJ was found not guilty!!!! but the media still rips him a new one eevn in death.


While Woody Allen is loved by all!!!

Is it because Woody only got a Woody for a 12 year old asian girl and not a white kid.

[XemaSab]

1. I think they're both creeps

:shrug:

[Captain Hilts]

16. Exactly. That's why he started filming in Europe. He creeped folks out here. nt

[ChazII]

110. Agree with you 100%

Both are creeps or scum.

[Skittles]

2. why do you assume Woody Allen is loved by all?

I admire his work but he is loathsome for what he did to Mia

[SoCalDem]

4. No love here for him.. Creepy old dude.. n/t

[brettdale]

14. every interview with every actor

Every report on Woody Allen I see on TV is positive???

Its crazy, how he didnt go to jail!!!

Why would anyone work for him??

[Skittles]

31. what exactly would he go to jail for?

apparently Woody and that gal were both adults and since he never had legally adopted her, it wasn't incest. It still stinks to high heaven because he certainly had played a father role to her since she was 7 and had a long relationship with her adopted mother but technically there wasn't anything illegal about it

[brettdale]

62. the photos

He took of her, when she was underage.

[defendandprotect]

90. Amazing that so many think they know what went on . . . and they don't . . . !!!

When Mia found the pornographic photos of Soon-Yi it was obvious that the sexual

interest in her by Woody had been going on a long time --

However, the basis of the first hint that Woody was a pervert was his interest

in Mia's 3 year old daughter. And that sexual interest was observed by one or

more of Mia's employees!!! That was the event which created the lawsuit!!

[Gwendolyn]

82. It's doubtful WA has ever played father figure to anyone.

Throughout last doc, filmed throughout a trip to France and Italy, Soon-Yi did ALL the care-taking. I wouldn't be surprised if she checks out his bowel movements every day as well.

[defendandprotect]

89. There were two daughters . . . one 3 years old ... that's who he was accused of ...

sexually abusing in the legal case!!!

Lucky Woody that this story has gotten reversed.

There are newspaper reports from the time, of course, where you can get the

truth -- but the basis of the accusations was his conduct with the 3 year old

daughter of Mia Farrow. One of Mia's employees entered a room where Woody Allen

was with the young girl and observed some strange sexual behavior. As I recall

it, that employee or another had become aware of Woody Allen taking strange

opportunities to be alone with this child -- one time in the attic.

The 3 year old was also able to relate some of this info to Mia and it had been

on-going for some time!!!

LATER ON . . . Mia Farrow became aware that Woody was having a sexual relationship

with her teenaged adopted Asian daughter - Soon-Yi/? Mia found pornographic photos

of her daughter taken by Woody Allen -- and it was obvious that this sexual interest

had been going on for a long time before it was discovered.

Lucky Woody that so many people don't know all the details of this story!!!

[defendandprotect]

93. Again -- the lawsuit was about sexual behavior with a 3 year old daughter . . .

of Mia Farrow. Woody Allen was observed in a sexual position with that child.

That was the basis of the lawsuit.

At least one of Mia Farrow's employees noted this sexual behavior with this 3 year old.

Either the same person of another also noted that Woody was taking the child off to

isolated parts of the house -- the attic.

The 3 year old was also able to tell Mia Farrow something of what had happened.

LATER IT BECAME OBVIOUS THAT WOODY ALLEN WAS involved with the older adopted daughter --

an Asian named Soon-Yi. This came to light when Mia Farrow found pornographic photos of

her daughter taken by Woody Allen -- and it was obvious that his sexual interest in that

daughter -- and her visits to his apartment -- had been going on for a long time before it

was discovered!!!

[tishaLA]

98. Why did the NY Dept of Social Services find "no credible evidence"

and the baby sitter in question didn't note "sexual behavior"; she saw him kneeling before Dylan "in a way that bothered" her. Indeed, people have suggested that Ms Farrow concocted this whole molestation charge because she discovered his affair with Soon-Yi

[defendandprotect]

104. The baby sitter described him with his head oddly in the young girl's lap...

with her dress pulled up --

as I recall it.

You'll have to go to Mia Farrow's book --

and, yes, sexual abuse of young children is very hard to prove.

But, males are the sexual abusers of children -- and 100X of them hetereosexual!!

Meanwhile, Woody's sexual interest in Soon-Yi also began when she was a young teenager.

[tishaLA]

107. Soon Yi says it happened when she came back from college

which, I think, would make her at least 18.

And I'm sorry, but, as neurotic as Mr Allen is, I think Ms Farrow is a complete nut job. I find it hard to think of her as credible, especially when, by her own admission, she never even saw the incident!

[defendandprotect]

121. Again, males are our sexual abusers of children . . . and we have male-dominated courts . . .

Mia Farrow makes clear that this sexual interest in Soon-Yi began when she was a young

teenager -- by the time the pornographic photos were discovered the sexual interests/

relationship in this girl had been going on for some time past.

Would Soon-Yi now be attempting to incriminate her husband?

The young 3 year old did make some of the sexual abuse known to Mia Farrow.

Again -- this is male thing -- hetereosexual males are our child molesters.

[tishaLA]

124. If Ms Farrow were so concerned about her child...

she should have reported the thing that made her babysitter, but not her, uncomfortable when it happened. Instead, she waited until she found out about Mr Allen and Ms Previn. If a woman--a woman with means, no less--is willing to let her child be molested (or at least have things happen that make the babysitter uncomfortable), that says a good deal about her, indeed.

[defendandprotect]

134. Mia Farow dealt with the sexual abuse immediately . . .

in all the various ways that a parent would -- including filing a lawsuit.

Again, Soon-Yi was a young teenager when Woody Allen began to show sexual interest in her --

including taking pornographic photos.

And you're obviously more interested in salvaging Woody from his own perversions

than dealing with reality.

[tishaLA]

152. Again, she filed the lawsuit after her relationship with Mr Allen ended

it is very sad to think that, if she really believed the charges against Mr Allen, Ms Farrow waited until then. But if the alleged molestation happened when the child was 3, and the charges were filed when the child was 7, what else can one think?

But it's not surprising, really. Ms Farrow has long been regarded as unstable.

[defendandprotect]

186. Mia took public action when Woody tried to gain custody of some of the children...

I'm not sure how old Dylan was when she told Mia about the abuse --

spontaneously.

But I could see the preference for not making this public had Woody cooperated in

not seeking custody.

[FatDave]

158. I'm not about to say that Woody Allen isn't a scumbag...

But it sure sounds like you've convicted largely on the basis of his gender. He was accused, he fits the profile, so he's guilty?

[defendandprotect]

188. Actually, the statistics convict hetereosexual males -- not me ....here they are . . .

And glad you asked . . .

And here you go --

Right-wing Family Research Council confirms that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by males" . .

From "same-sex -- marriage in the United States
Focus on the Facts" -- Sean Cahill, PH.D
Lexington Books -- 2004
See: Footnote

A 1998 Study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual.

Research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are less likely than heteeosexual to sexually abuse children.

Perhaps the most egregious and damaging claim promulgaed by anti-gay groups is the claim that homosexuality is intrinisically linked to pedophiia and child sexual abuse.
The social science research on sexual orientation and child sexual abuse clearly disproves the claim that homosexuals are more likely to molest children. A 1998 study in the Journal of the American Medical Assocation found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual. One researcher explained this statistic by noting, "Gay men desire consensual sexual relations with other adult men. Pedophiles are usually adult men who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. They are rarely sexually attracted to other adults. In fact, research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are LESS likely than heterosexuals to sexually abuse children. Two studies that examined the sexual orientation of convicted child molesters found that less than 1% in one study and 0% in the other were lesbian or gay. One psychologist reviewed the existing social science literature on the relationship between sexuality and child sexual abuse and found that "a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children." Further, "cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent."

Gay rights activists, like all advocates for children's welfare, oppose child sexual abuse and support equitable age of consent laws that help prevent and punish such abuse.

At least 110,000 children are waiting to be adopted in the US. Approximately 588,000 children are currently in foster care. Barring gay men and lebians from adopting or foster parenting decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Children who remain in foster care for much of their childhood, as do tens of thousands of American children, are more likely to have emotional problems. Some children in foster care live in 20 or more homes by the time they reach the age of 18. Barring gay men and lesbians from adopting or foster parenting is not simply unjust and unethical; it also decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Research shows that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are not disadvantaged vis-a-vis their peers raised by hetereosexual parents.

Footnote 65 -- p.123
A review of 352 medical records of children evaluated for sexual abuse during a 12-month period at a Denver chidlren's hospital found that less than 1% had been abused by a gay man or a lesbian. Of 269 adult perpetrators of child abuse identified among the 352 cases of abuse, only two were gay or lesbian. The vast majority of the children in the study (82%) "were suspected of being abused by a man or a woman who was, or had been, in a hetereosexual relationship with a relative of the child." And the review concluded that in this sample, " a child's risk of being molested by his or her relative's heterosexual partner is over 100X greater by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual."
Jenny, C., and Roesler, T.A. (1994)
Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics. 94(1).p.44.
In an earlierstudy of convicted male child molesters in Massachusetts, none of the 175 men were found to have an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation orto be primarily attracted to other adult men.
Groth, A.N., and Birnbaum, H.J. (1978).
Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons.
Archives of Sexual Behavior.7(3).pp.175-181.

Also : The right-wing "Family Research Council" notes/confirms findings that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."

[Johonny]

49. you might need to watch more TV

because Woody Allen jokes about is very odd relationship are very, very common and generally don't show him in a positive fashion.

[roguevalley]

182. crazy he didn't get jail, huh? if michael hadn't been made of money he

would have been jailed. so would anyone one of us for less than what faced him because we don't have his money and fame. woody is a sleaze butt just like Michael but both had talent and entertained. It is awful in this country that the rich walk and the rest of us do the time.

[DesertRat]

3. Woody Allen is loved by all?

Since when? :shrug:

[LisaL]

8. I don't love him. So it's a guarantee he isn't loved by all.

[DesertRat]

53. Me either

I think he's a turd for what he did to Mia.

[imdjh]

5. You got me. I have never liked Woody Allen.

Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex was mildly amusing, but I was something like 12 years old when I saw it, so anything having to do with sex would probably have amused me.

[PSzymeczek]

41. The only movie of his I'll watch

is "Take the Money and Run".

[salguine]

59. "Sleeper" and "What's Up Tiger Lily" were great.

[Hugabear]

6. Do you really have to ask that question?

I think many of us know the answer...

[ZombieHorde]

9. I don't, please share. nt

[Hugabear]

Honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with racism

First of all, I didn't take the OP to be directed at DU, but at society in general.

All you have to do is listen to any radio talk show or read any message board, and you'll see racism spewing out regarding Michael Jackson. Despite the fact that he was never found guilty of any crime, the fact that he's a black man accused of a crime is enough for too many people in this country.

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. Yeah, that... and the whole "entire-premise-is-bullshit" thing. n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

51. Right.......

....because no one ever says bigoted stuff about Jews......

[proteus_lives]

73. Michael Jackson was black?

Funny, I thought he spent 20 years trying get rid of his AAness. Hell, by the time he kicked he was whiter then my old granny.

Hey I think Woody Allen is a sleaze too but he didn't have "sleepovers" with little boys. Maybe that's why he went from accolades to being a pariah.

[lukasahero]

88. Racism, sexism and homophobia

All 3 play a role. Black man accused of having sex with underaged white boys versus white man having sex with underage Asian girl. Hmm, is there really that much to think about?

[Laelth]

111. Bingo!

MJ threatened established norms of race, gender, and sex. Was he white or black? Was he a man or a woman? Was he straight or gay? People become very threatened by those who disrupt their safe, black/white categories.

That, imho, is the source of the "ickyness" a lot of people feel regarding MJ.

:dem:

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--sloppy proofreading.

[spoony]

11. I don't know the answer, because I don't believe the question. nt

[Kaleva]

7. I don't love Woody Allen

His work, along with MJ's, is very creative but that doesn't mean I care much for either.

[medeak]

10. no love here n/t

[MrModerate]

12. Many people despise Allen, and he's flirted with pariah-land ever since . . .

He dumped Farrow for her ward.

To be fair, Jackson's (alleged) indiscretions were more numerous and much more baroque than Allen's (natch), and Allen hasn't turned out to be a serial offender. Many people thought Jackson was.

[Catherine Vincent]

13. Who is Woody Allen?

:)

[Captain Hilts]

15. Woody Allen is not loved. nt

[Tangerine LaBamba]

17. Who loves Woody Allen?

He made some great movies a long time ago - like Jacko made some great music a long time ago - but I wouldn't pay to see anything he did now............................

[Captain Hilts]

19. His movies never made a lot of money except for Annie Hall. He kept costs down and

used his friends in all his movies so that they were affordable.

Films on a budget. They never made a lot of money.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

21. After Annie Hall,

his films just got wordier and more NY angst than I could bear. It just made my head ache. If I want to listen to self-involved Upper East Siders prattling about their lives, I'll go visit my agent....................................

[KittyWampus]

35. you must have not seen "Purple Rose of Cairo"

[Tangerine LaBamba]

45. I did, and, you know,

I must correct myself. That was a lovely film.

Thanks for catching me up on that. I completely forgot it.........................

[defendandprotect]

94. Love that movie and Broadway Danny Rose . . . both with Mia Farrow . . .

However, I can't watch his movies any longer --

And, it's really shocking that so many people here don't know the truth --

that he was accused of sexually abusing the 3 year old daughter of Mia Farrow.

This was observed by one or more of her employees.

Also the young child was able to tell Mia something of the abuse.

That was what the lawsuit was about.

LATER WOODY ALLEN'S SEXUAL INTEREST IN THE OLDER DAUGHTER SOON-YI was discovered

by Mia Farrow when she found pornographic photos of her adopted Asian daughter taken

by Woody Allen obviously over a long period of time when she was visiting him in his

apartment, unbeknowst to Mia.

[Captain Hilts]

37. "Manhattan" made me declare him a pervert. Gross! nt

[defendandprotect]

95. I agree --

[seabeyond]

80. half hour into the movie i walked out. the only movie i left in a theater.

i was teenager, with a friend and i dont remember what it was about the movie that so turned me off, bored, whatever. but it is the only movie i have ever left....

[Midwestern Democrat]

163. Actually, Woody was considered "commercial" before 1980.

He was popular enough to make the Quigley exhibitors' poll of the Top 10 Box Office stars five years in a row (1975 through 1979) - something many major stars have never accomplished - and all of his comedies from "Play it Again, Sam" through "Manhattan" were considered solid box office earners. However, starting in 1980, he seemed to go in a more "arthouse" direction - and with the exception of "Hannah and Her Sisters" - his box office never went back to his 1970s levels.

[jazzjunkysue]

18. Because Woody Allen is about as enticing as pocket lint.

He didn't use his electric personality, charisma, and fame and sex appeal, and his own amusement park to lure in random kids for sex.

OK. His step daughter was a little too young by our standards, but, 100 years ago, or in Utah....


It's not even close. That's why.

[pkdu]

22. For those looking for the answer...this pretty much nails it. n/t

[jobycom]

20. Homophobia. Racism. nt

[ColbertWatcher]

32. I was going to suggest the same thing. n/t

[ContinentalOp]

61. Homophobia for sure.

I'm surprised how little this has been mentioned in all of the MJ hysteria. 13 or 14 year old girls sleeping with David Bowie or Jimmy Page is somehow a totally different story. http://www.stryder.de/rest/Groupie_Central_Lori_%20Maddox.html

[FreeState]

151. Homosexuality DOES NOT equal pedophilia

The vast majority of pedophiles that molest members of the same sex are married to a member of the opposite sex.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180).

Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases (Jenny et al., 1994).

In yet another approach to studying adult sexual attraction to children, some Canadian researchers observed how homosexual and heterosexual adult men responded to slides of males and females of various ages (child, pubescent, and mature adult). All of the research subjects were first screened to ensure that they preferred physically mature sexual partners. In some of the slides shown to subjects, the model was clothed; in others, he or she was nude. The slides were accompanied by audio recordings. The recordings paired with the nude models described an imaginary sexual interaction between the model and the subject. The recordings paired with the pictures of clothed models described the model engaging in neutral activities (e.g., swimming). To measure sexual arousal, changes in the subjects' penis volume were monitored while they watched the slides and listened to the audiotapes. The researchers found that homosexual males responded no more to male children than heterosexual males responded to female children (Freund et al., 1989).

Science cannot prove a negative. Thus, these studies do not prove that homosexual or bisexual males are no more likely than heterosexual males to molest children. However, each of them failed to prove the alternative hypothesis that homosexual males are more likely than heterosexual men to molest children or to be sexually attracted to children or adolescents.

[jobycom]

165. You see anyone claiming it does?

[beachmom]

141. Pedophilia does not equal homosexuality. Completely different things.

Do we have to go over this again, after fighting the Catholic Church on it?

[lukasahero]

160. I don't think the poster is suggesting it does

I think they are suggesting that it's (stupid) people's fear of homosexuals that that increases the negative reaction to a man sleeping with boys over that of sleeping with girls. That's why he/she used the word homoPHOBIA and not homosexuals or pedophelia.

[jobycom]

164. Your comment is completely unrelated to what I said.

:shrug:

The media is more upset about a man molesting boys than a man molesting girls because our society is homophobic.

[emulatorloo]

23. Per this article she was in her twenties, not 12. They married in 1997 and are still married

At the time of their relationship she was in her twenties, not a child.

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9712/24/woody.weds/

Woody Allen marries Soon-Yi in Venice

December 24, 1997

<SNIP>

Farrow and conductor Andre Previn, while on a trip to Korea, adopted Soon-Yi when she was about 8 years old.

Farrow later dated Allen for more than a decade and starred in many of his films. She discovered his relationship with her daughter after finding nude pictures of the girl, then 21, in Allen's apartment.


--------------

From WIKI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Allen#Soon-Yi_Previn

Despite assertions from Previn that Allen was never a father-figure to her,<51> the relationship drew much public and media scrutiny. At the time, Allen was 56 and Previn was 22.

Allen and Previn married on December 24, 1997 in the Palazzo Cavalli in Venice, Italy. The couple have adopted two daughters, naming them Bechet and Manzie<52> after jazz musicians Sidney Bechet and Manzie Johnson.

====



Not defending woody allen, but as you can see the story is a little different than the way you remember it.

ON EDIT ADD WIKI LINK

[TahitiNut]

26. When the facts don't support a zealous hatred, just change the "facts."

:shrug: That's how it is in the wonderful court of public opinion.

[emulatorloo]

29. Thanks for replying -- everybody else seems to be ignoring it! n/t

[TahitiNut]

43. It's called "Confirmation Bias"

Confirmation bias occurs when we selectively notice or focus upon evidence which tends to support the things we already believe or want to be true while ignoring that evidence which would serve to disconfirm those beliefs or ideas. Confirmation bias plays a stronger role when it comes to those beliefs which are based upon prejudice, faith, or tradition rather than on empirical evidence.

For example, if we already believe or want to believe that someone can speak to our deceased relatives, then we will notice when they say things which are accurate or pleasant but forget how often that person says things which are simply incorrect. Another good example would be how people notice when they get a phone call from a person they were just thinking about but don’t remember how often they didn’t get such a call when thinking about a person.

The confirmation bias is simply a natural aspect of our personal biases — its appearance is not a sign that a person is dumb. As Michael Shermer stated in the September 2002 issue of Scientific American:

(more)

http://atheism.about.com/od/logicalflawsinreasoning/a/confirmation.htm

Several reputable studies describe how we 'filter' the available information to support our biases. When the 'anchor' to that bias is some social taboo/dogma, it's nearly impossible to dislodge. (Read my sig.)

[Coventina]

77. Thank you! Everyone seems to forget that Soon-Yi was an adult.

Woody Allen was investigated for the accusations made against him by Mia Farrow, and there was no evidence to arrest him or pursue the matter further.

End of story.

[defendandprotect]

96. The lawsuit dealt with Woody's sexual abuse of Mia's 3 year old daughter . . .

that's what the lawsuit was about!!!

There was at least one employee of Mia's who had seen odd sexual behavior by Woody

towards the three year old child. That employee or another also noticed that Woody

was taking the young child off to isolated areas of the house -- the attic.

The young child was able to tell Mia something of the sexual abuse.

LATER ON . . . Mia Farrow discovered pornographic photos of her adopted Asian daughter

Soon-Yi which had been taken by Woody Allen during visits by this daughter to his

apartment over a long period of time.

[wolfgangmo]

113. It's called an unsubstantiated allegation.

Anyone can make them.

For example I have seen you in the playground by your house looking at the little kids and rubbing yourself while cackling and drooling.

But none of that matters because my statement is unsubstantiated.

[defendandprotect]

122. Unfortunately for Woody his behavior was observed . . . and there are pornographic

photos of Soon-Yi, as well, taken when she was a young teenager.

Again, those who sexually abuse children are males -- hetereosexual males 100X of the time.

I'm sure you know that...

[Codeine]

137. Any link to back up your assertion

that the pictures were of a teen Soon-Yi?

[defendandprotect]

142. Soon-Yi was adopted as a street child - no real knowledge of her age --

and there was little documentation on her history -- and she was thought to be

several years younger than her official age.

Evidently at the time she was supposedly 21, Mia considered her to be 19.

However, the explicit nude photographs of Soon-Yi which Woody Allen took of her

while in a relationship with her mother and their children certainly suggest that

it was an on-going relationship -- and exactly when the seduction of Soon-Yi began

is unknown.

Further, Woody Allen would have known Soon-Yi as Mia's daughter and one of

Mia Farrow's children from the time she was 10.

[Codeine]

174. So no evidence whatsoever, in other words.

Thanks.

[defendandprotect]

185. Right .... probably Soon-Yi doesn't even exist . . . if you discount Mia's evidence of that --

Dylan didn't exist either -- especially not alone with Woody or in attics with him!!!

[Chulanowa]

157. Except when they're school teachers

You know, fucking thirteen year old boys or something.

[defendandprotect]

189. RW Family Research Council "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by males" . . .

RW Family Research Council confirms that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by males" . .

From "same-sex -- marriage in the United States
Focus on the Facts" -- Sean Cahill, PH.D
Lexington Books -- 2004
See: Footnote

A 1998 Study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual.

Research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are less likely than heteeosexual to sexually abuse children.

Perhaps the most egregious and damaging claim promulgaed by anti-gay groups is the claim that homosexuality is intrinisically linked to pedophiia and child sexual abuse.
The social science research on sexual orientation and child sexual abuse clearly disproves the claim that homosexuals are more likely to molest children. A 1998 study in the Journal of the American Medical Assocation found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual. One researcher explained this statistic by noting, "Gay men desire consensual sexual relations with other adult men. Pedophiles are usually adult men who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. They are rarely sexually attracted to other adults. In fact, research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are LESS likely than heterosexuals to sexually abuse children. Two studies that examined the sexual orientation of convicted child molesters found that less than 1% in one study and 0% in the other were lesbian or gay. One psychologist reviewed the existing social science literature on the relationship between sexuality and child sexual abuse and found that "a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children." Further, "cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent."

Gay rights activists, like all advocates for children's welfare, oppose child sexual abuse and support equitable age of consent laws that help prevent and punish such abuse.

At least 110,000 children are waiting to be adopted in the US. Approximately 588,000 children are currently in foster care. Barring gay men and lebians from adopting or foster parenting decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Children who remain in foster care for much of their childhood, as do tens of thousands of American children, are more likely to have emotional problems. Some children in foster care live in 20 or more homes by the time they reach the age of 18. Barring gay men and lesbians from adopting or foster parenting is not simply unjust and unethical; it also decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Research shows that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are not disadvantaged vis-a-vis their peers raised by hetereosexual parents.

Footnote 65 -- p.123
A review of 352 medical records of children evaluated for sexual abuse during a 12-month period at a Denver chidlren's hospital found that less than 1% had been abused by a gay man or a lesbian. Of 269 adult perpetrators of child abuse identified among the 352 cases of abuse, only two were gay or lesbian. The vast majority of the children in the study (82%) "were suspected of being abused by a man or a woman who was, or had been, in a hetereosexual relationship with a relative of the child." And the review concluded that in this sample, " a child's risk of being molested by his or her relative's heterosexual partner is over 100X greater by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual."
Jenny, C., and Roesler, T.A. (1994)
Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics. 94(1).p.44.
In an earlierstudy of convicted male child molesters in Massachusetts, none of the 175 men were found to have an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation orto be primarily attracted to other adult men.
Groth, A.N., and Birnbaum, H.J. (1978).
Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons.
Archives of Sexual Behavior.7(3).pp.175-181.

Also : The right-wing "Family Research Council" notes/confirms findings that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."

[Chulanowa]

195. So 10% aren't men

To say nothing of the vast majority of either sex who never once abuse a child.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

24. Reminds me of the Mos Def song:

"You can laugh and criticize Michael Jackson if you wanna/Woody Allen molested and married his stepdaughter."

[MajorChode]

25. I wouldn't piss in Woody Allen's ear if his brain was on fire

Or Roman Polanski's, either.

Does that make it OK for me to think MJ was a creep and a pedophile?

[rpannier]

27. Maybe that there was more than several accusations

and the pay-offs

And as someone said, Woody Allen did not use his celebrity and charisma to attract multiple numbers of children (allegedly)

I have no interest in either of them, throw in Roman Polanski into that mix.

[xchrom]

28. what a morbidly fascinating thread!

:wow: :popcorn:

[madeline_con]

30. Woody Allen loved by all?! Don't make me...

:puke:

[ailsagirl]

150. He WAS popular-- before the debacle

I liked him a lot and was flabbergasted when the news broke about Sun Li.
After that, my opinion of him plummeted...

Now, whenever I hear his name or see his face, I remember. Fair or not.

[MannyGoldstein]

33. Where Do You Get 12 From?

I'd appreciate a link.

It was a little creepy in that she was sorta kinda his step-daughter. But I believe she was 18 or older.

And I do love Woody - he's brilliant! I also loved MJ.

[MajorChode]

46. She was 21 when the affair became public

That doesn't mean she was of age when it started. It became public because Mia found nude pictures of Soon-Yi so it's anyone's guess how long it had been going on. Rumor has it Soon-Yi was getting acquainted to Little Woody about 12 or 13. They adopted her when she was 8 so conceivably it started around then. Mia also accused him of fondling their very young son, but he was never convicted of anything. Regardless of which story you choose to believe, he's still a sick bastard for porking his step-daughter.

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. 12?... 21?... it's all in how you look at it. n/t

[MajorChode]

52. Blame it on dyslexia

That'll work.

[MannyGoldstein]

54. Link Please?

And she's not exactly his step-daughter.

[MajorChode]

56. www.google.com

OK, she was the daughter of the mother of 3 of his children. Does that sound better? I don't think it makes Woody Allen that much less of a sick fuck, but if it makes you feel better, go for it.

[noiretextatique]

155. it makes him a really sick fuck

i don't care if she was 21 when he married her.

[defendandprotect]

99. Woody was sexually abusing Mia Farrow's 3 year old daughter . . .

that's what the lawsuit was about -- !!!

There was at least one employee of Mia's who had seen odd sexual behavior by Woody

towards the three year old child. That employee or another also noticed that Woody

was taking the young child off to isolated areas of the house -- the attic.

The young child was able to tell Mia something of the sexual abuse.

LATER ON . . . Mia Farrow discovered pornographic photos of her adopted Asian daughter

Soon-Yi which had been taken by Woody Allen during visits by this daughter to his

apartment over a long period of time. And she was a young teenager when most of that

was going on.

Amazing how so many think they know what happened -- !!!

[FiveGoodMen]

146. I don't think you've made that point enough times yet.

[verges]

168. Just learned how to cut and paste. nt

[defendandprotect]

190. As long as people post misinformation ....

ie that the scandal/disdain for Woody is based on his marrying a 21 year old adopted daughter

then I'll be replying with the info about 3 year old Dylan.

[verges]

167. She was not a step-daughter.

She was the adoptive daughter of Andre Previn and Mia Farrow. They adopted her when they were married. Andre Previn is Soon-Yi's adoptive father . Not Woody Allen. Woody Allen and Mia Farrow were NEVER married. I don't think they ever even lived together, in spite of their long-term relationship.

[defendandprotect]

191. Yes, however , Soon-Yi lived in the homes of Mia Farrow not Previn.....

and, therefore, Woody Allen would have known Soon-Yi as Mia's adopted daughter

from the age of about 10.

Mia Farrow also feels that Soon-Yi was probably several years younger than her

stated age. She was adopted as a street orphan in Seoul with no information

about her available.

[KittyWampus]

34. She wasn't a 12 year old. So how about you either correct yourself and apologize

or/and ask the moderators to lock this thread.

[paulsby]

40. exactly

woody allen was accused of nothing illegal. i realize mj was never convicted of anything illegal, just suspected.

what woody allen did was kind of creepy, but nowhere near the creepiness factor of what mj was ACCUSED of (i am not saying MJ *is* guilty).

polanski is on a whole other level. he drugged and raped a 13 yr old girl.

that guy is complete scum.

[MajorChode]

55. Not exactly

Woody Allen was accused by Mia Farrow of molesting their 7 yr old daughter, although no charges were ever filed. So it really depends on who you want to believe. A sick bastard who married his 35 yr younger step-daughter, or Mia Farrow. Although Mia Farrow did perhaps have self serving motives at the time, I tend to believe her. Call me crazy. A prosecutor at the time also tended to agree, but wouldn't indict Allen because their daughter was terrified of speaking about it and would have made a good witness (as is common in such cases). So just because he wasn't convicted, doesn't mean he didn't do it.

[paulsby]

63. true enough

i did forget that farrow did accuse him of molesting the daughter.

otoh, look at her motivation. that's a big factor in weighting witness testimony.

he leaves her for the stepdaughter. iow, he dumps her.

THEN, she makes the claims of molestation.

that's a bit... (shades of church lady) "convenient..."

we see this all the time in cases where people are going through a divorce. all of a sudden all kinds of wild claims are made about child abuse, molestation, etc. because people want to win money and custody.

i'm not saying mia was lying. i'm saying she had ample motive to lie, and the claim came at a convenient time. iow, it was self-serving.

[MajorChode]

72. It didn't go down that way

Mia found nude pictures of Soon-Yi that Allen took and dumped him, not the other way around.

At the time, I thought that the most suspect thing on her part was that she said she caught Allen jerking off over their 7yr old daughter, and she didn't leave him until she found the pictures of Soon-Yi. However, it's not unheard of for women to put up with some measure of vile actions before they have enough. It doesn't do a lot for her credibility, but Allen has even less.

[paulsby]

130. how old was she?

how old was she in the nude pictures. if she was 14,15 etc. i'd have a problem with it.

if it's a little kid, that's par for the course with parents.

[MajorChode]

131. Just because you're a pedophile, doesn't mean you're an idiot

And just because there isn't photographic evidence Allen diddled his kids, doesn't mean it didn't happen. You can say a lot of things about Woody Allen, but stupid is not one that comes to my mind. I wouldn't expect him to leave a paper trail if he did commit a crime.

Many people have this concept that pedophiles are drooling morans, but that's far afield from reality. There's just a larger percentage of the morans that get caught. I've known pedophiles and quite often they are very intelligent people. Quite often, they are never brought to justice. Even rape of adult women has a minuscule prosecution rate. Do you think it's better for pedophiles? Sadly it doesn't happen. Mostly they prey on those who are very close and they are very devious and clever about it. There are pedophiles in your neighborhood and probably your family. They sit next to you at work and on the bus, and chances are they will live their entire life and never spend a day behind bars or even be found out by anyone other than their victims.

[paulsby]

153. first of all,

i've investigated and helped to prosecute at least a dozen pedophiles. so spare me your pedantry.

regardless, a parent taking nude pictures of their young child =/= pedophilia.

[MajorChode]

166. Who (besides you) is talking about a parent taking nude pictures of their young child?

I could give a day old dog shit about whatever alleged experience you're going to claim. You obviously don't know shit from beans about what anyone else is discussing, so perhaps you could use a bit of pedantry, no?

[paulsby]

173. woody allen allegedly did

read the thread for pete's sake.

[MajorChode]

176. Fraid not, Perry Mason

Woody Allen DID take erotic pictures of Soon-Yi when she was a young adult. There's no "allegedly" about it. Allen himself admits it.

Try and keep up.

[paulsby]

179. the allegation was that he took pictures of her

when she was a child and the word pedophilia was used. THEN, it was clarified that she was in fact of age, when the photo was taken. try TO keep up (try AND keep up is grammatically suspect, even though often used that way). hth

[MajorChode]

180. Fraid not, Perry Mason

First, you're the only one rambling on about pictures of a "little kid", not anyone else. So let's not pretend otherwise. Fair enough?

Next, the allegation of pedophilia was made by Mia regarding their 7 yr old (at the time of the allegation) daughter named Dylan. This allegation was enough to convince a social worker that examined the child and a prosecutor, although never proven by a court. Any claim that he diddled Soon-Yi before the age of consent is simply a notion (although not without at least some foundation).

Finally, you've revealed your true nature even more by coming up with a cheese dick grammar flame.

I'm done with you, Perry. I have no interest in debating someone who wants to spew bullshit and ignorance and then try to be deceitful about it when it's in black and white for all who care to work their way back up the thread. Feel free to have the last word as such things have always mattered greatly to you.

Have a nice day.

[paulsby]

181. translation...

waaaaaaaah!

[anigbrowl]

138. 21

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9712/24/woody.weds/

[paulsby]

154. ok, well that supports the claim that woody didn't do anything illegal

or suspect even.

[leftynyc]

87. Did Ms. Farrow make the charge

before or after she found out about Mr.Allen and Ms. Previn? If not before, I don't find her a particularly good source.

That said, there is a serious ick factor when any man marries someone that much younger than they are.

[tishaLA]

109. After. nt

[MajorChode]

126. The question is, do you find Allen a better one?

One of them is lying. The question is who.

Did Mia have reason to lie? Perhaps, but the case for that is extremely thin. It doesn't really fit with her pattern of behavior before or since. She was married twice before to famous people, and neither ended in a particularly ugly fashion, despite her being essentially dumped by both, and she left Allen, not the other way around. Mia essentially ended her career to devote herself to her children while Allen kept working. There's absolutely no reason to suspect she would have any problems retaining custody of them. She was and always has been the epitome of motherhood and even Allen with his crooked lawyers and investigators couldn't manage to demean her character. This also wasn't a casual allegation made during divorce proceedings. Mia filed the complaint and cooperated with the prosecution. That doesn't sound like the behavior pattern of someone who is lying.

[leftynyc]

177. Is she didn't charge him

with molesting her child before he hooked up with Soon Yi then I think she's lying (or a terrible mother).

[defendandprotect]

192. The sexual abuse issue has to do with Mia's 3 year old daughter, Dylan . . .

Dylan spontaneously told Mia about this on tape -- evidently she regularly taped

the children talking about things.

And someone in her employ reported to her that Woody Allen was taking Dylan off to

isolated parts of the Connecticut home -- including the attic.

He was also observed in a room alone with Dylan where he had his head oddly in the

child's lap and her dress raised up.

I don't remember all the particulars right now -- Mia Farrow did cover this in her

book -- however, presumably Mia was trying to handle the sexual abuse privately --

however, when Woody Allen was requesting custody of these children -- including Dylan --

as I recall, then Mia made the sexual abuse issue public.

[leftynyc]

194. Why on earth did she

wait until then? I'm not saying he didn't do it (or that he did - I simply don't know). If I thought anybody was abusing my children (or any child), I'd call the cops simply to stop myself from killing the bastard. Waiting until a custody battle reeks of revenge.

[MajorChode]

193. From what I can gather...

She just considered his behavior towards Dylan odd, and she did notice that the child would run and hide when he came over. I suspect that after she found the pictures, that led her to believe that he was capable of far more. And it's not just her word. The child was examined by a social worker who recommended prosecution to the DA's office. This is a person that does such evaluations routinely. The prosecutor was also convinced, and they deal with people who lie routinely.

[NashVegas]

114. Mia Farrow Was a Hypocrite of the Highest Order

Did Woody molest Dylan? I don't know.

I do know that Mia Farrow appeared in a documentary and presented apologia for Roman Polanksi's forcible rape of a 13-year old: "but she looked so much older."

[Liberal_in_LA]

58. I recall Allen talking about when he first noticed the girl, she was very young..13/14

[defendandprotect]

100. The lawsuit brought by Mia was for sexual abuse of her 3 year old daughter .. . !!!

There was at least one employee of Mia's who had seen odd sexual behavior by Woody

towards the three year old child. That employee or another also noticed that Woody

was taking the young child off to isolated areas of the house -- the attic.

The young child was able to tell Mia something of the sexual abuse.

LATER ON . . . Mia Farrow discovered pornographic photos of her adopted Asian daughter

Soon-Yi which had been taken by Woody Allen during visits by this daughter to his

apartment over a long period of time.

[Rebubula]

140. 3rd or 4th time...

..that you have posted the same thing.

Would you mind linking to a reputable place where this information can be seen?

[defendandprotect]

143. Yes, because I've responded to a number of different

posters who evidently didn't know this --

If you look around the internet you'll find info on it --

Actually, while Mia was finding out about the sexual abuse of her 3 year

old daughter, I think she wanted to handle it privately by keeping Woody

from her -- but in the meanwhile Woody was seeking custody of a few of

the children.

You can also refer to Mia Farrow's book on all of this -- probably at your library.

[verges]

170. Mia's book?

That's certainly an unbiased source of what really happened.

[defendandprotect]

178. Well, I'm sure that Woody Allen's statements are also an "unbiased" source . . . !!!

If you're interested in what Mia Farrow did, what she was thinking,

what assistance she sought for Dylan, age 3, what Dylan told her spontaneously

about the sexual abuse . . . then try Woody on that!

[MichaelHarris]

36. Woody Allen

sucks the balls of hairy spiders.

[Joe Bacon]

38. Woody Allen hasn't been funny in years.

Ever since Broadway Danny Rose, his movies have gone way downhill.

[applegrove]

39. What? Woody is not loved. Some of us hold our noses as we go and see his flics.

Sometimes we even don't go and see his flics.

[kskiska]

42. Let's clear something up

Some people are confused.

Soon Yi was TWENTY TWO years old when the romantic relationship with Woody Allen started. 22. She was an adult. They were two consenting adults.

Woody Allen and Mia Farrow were never married and they never lived together. Soon Yi was never, in any sense, a step daughter to Woody Allen.

What you have here is a consensual relationship between two adults. Is it unorthodox, uncommon? Yeah. It is. But stop pretending that something illegal is going on. She was 22 years old for crying out loud and of no relation to Woody Allen whatsoever. It's none of our business.

[defendandprotect]

101. First, Woody was accused of sexually abusing Mia's 3 year old daugther . . .

There was at least one employee of Mia's who had seen odd sexual behavior by Woody

towards the three year old child. That employee or another also noticed that Woody

was taking the young child off to isolated areas of the house -- the attic.

The young child was able to tell Mia something of the sexual abuse.

and the rest of what you're saying isn't accurate either --

LATER ON . . . Mia Farrow discovered pornographic photos of her adopted Asian daughter

Soon-Yi which had been taken by Woody Allen during visits by this daughter to his

apartment over a long period of time. It was obvious that this sexual interest in this

daughter also began when she was a young teenager.

[MajorChode]

123. You're the one who is confused

You pretend to know exactly what happened and there's no way you can know.

Allen's relationship with Soon-Yi was discovered when she was a young adult. Do you honestly expect Allen to admit that he started porking her at 13 if that is indeed the case? So all you have to go on is his word and that's hardly anything to base a concrete conclusion as you pretend, especially when so many others like Mia, therapists, and housekeepers have said they strongly suspect otherwise.

Mia may have never married Allen, but they adopted two other children together and had another biological child. Does that sound like two people that just said hi to each other on the street now and again? Andre Previn was out of Soon-Yi's life by 1982, never to return. Allen was the only father figure she ever knew. Allen's biological son Ronan considers Soon-Yi his sister. How do you reconcile that with she was "never, in any sense, a step daughter"?

[Codeine]

44. Because Soon-Yi was an adult. He married her.

He wasn't banging her when she was a kid.

[defendandprotect]

102. It was the 3 year old daughter of Mia's that Woody was accused of sexually abusing--!!!

The lawsuit brought by Mia was for sexual abuse of her 3 year old daughter .. . !!!

There was at least one employee of Mia's who had seen odd sexual behavior by Woody

towards the three year old child. That employee or another also noticed that Woody

was taking the young child off to isolated areas of the house -- the attic.

The young child was able to tell Mia something of the sexual abuse.

LATER ON . . . Mia Farrow discovered pornographic photos of her adopted Asian daughter

Soon-Yi which had been taken by Woody Allen during visits by this daughter to his

apartment over a long period of time. This sexual interest in Soon-Yi began when she

was a young teenager.

[TahitiNut]

50. Some people just hate Woody Allen because he's Jewish.

:hide:


(It seemed like time for a Jiacinto Memorial Post.)

[salguine]

60. Woody Allen is Jewish!? Next you'll be telling me Mel Brooks is Jewish. Or Carl Reiner.

[Captain Hilts]

68. Good one. I 'got' it. nt

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

171. nah. I hate Woody Allen because he's unfunny and fucking annoying

and has an ego the size of the Titanic.

[kskiska]

57. Frank Sinatra married Mia Farrow when she was 21 and he was 50

Four years later she went on to break up 41-year-old André Previn's marriage and married him.

BTW, Woody, Soon-Yi, and Mia are speaking again. Woody called her when her daughter died of AIDS a few months ago.

[defendandprotect]

103. This is about sexual abuse of Mia's 3 year old daughter . .. . not May/December affairs...

The lawsuit brought by Mia was for sexual abuse of her 3 year old daughter .. . !!!

There was at least one employee of Mia's who had seen odd sexual behavior by Woody

towards the three year old child. That employee or another also noticed that Woody

was taking the young child off to isolated areas of the house -- the attic.

The young child was able to tell Mia something of the sexual abuse.

LATER ON . . . Mia Farrow discovered pornographic photos of her adopted Asian daughter

Soon-Yi which had been taken by Woody Allen during visits by this daughter to his

apartment over a long period of time.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

135. The daughter was found to have very little credibility

and it looks like Mia put her up to it out of a desire for revenge.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/04/nyregion/doctor-cites-inconsistencies-in-dylan-farrow-s-statements.html

"...The doctor who headed the Connecticut investigation into whether Woody Allen molested his 7-year-old daughter, Dylan, theorized that the child either invented the story under the stress of living in a volatile and unhealthy home or that it was planted in her mind by her mother, Mia Farrow, a sworn statement released yesterday says.

Dr. John M. Leventhal, who interviewed Dylan nine times, said that one reason he doubted her story was that she changed important points from one interview to another, like whether Mr. Allen touched her vagina. Another reason, he said, was that the child's accounts had "a rehearsed quality." At one point, he said she told him, "I like to cheat on my stories."

Dr. Leventhal said: "We had two hypotheses: one, that these were statements that were made by an emotionally disturbed child and then became fixed in her mind. And the other hypothesis was that she was coached or influenced by her mother. We did not come to a firm conclusion. We think that it was probably a combination." ..."

[kskiska]

161. Good catch!

That's the one I've been looking for. Mia presented tapes of the child being questioned and it was obvious the girl was being coached .

Aside from that, pedophilia is a lifetime affliction. There's absolutely no evidence of Woody being the least bit interested in, or seeking the company of children in his life before Mia, It's not something that begins late in life.

[Dorian Gray]

64. I don't think that's true at all

I think both are/were criticized by some and loved by others.

[rocktivity]

65. The media hasn't loved Allen lately, either.

He hasn't done anything worth talking about since Hannah and Her Sisters.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Seedersandleechers]

120. I don't agree

I loved Mighty Aphrodite, and Vicky Christina Barcelona (To which Penelope got best supporting actress)

[Lagomorph]

66. One of them is not like the other. nt

[eShirl]

67. I don't care what you say, I'm never taking down my Woody Allen posters.

[BoneDaddy]

69. Assumptions

Woody Allen is not loved by all. Stop trying to turn this into a racial issue to suit your own drama.

[scheming daemons]

70. Woody Allen is just as much a sick fuck as Michael Jackson was

Why you assume Woody Allen is loved is beyond me.


Woody Allen will be in the cell next to MJ in hell when he croaks.

[shadowknows69]

71. Equal scum in my eyes

But I also confess to still watching some of his movies and enjoying Michael Jackson's music (Well mostly Jackson Five stuff)

Genius and insabe go hand in hand a lot. Hopefully, genius, insane and sick is rare.

[WI_DEM]

74. for one thing the allegations against MJ aren't quite the same as with WA

Jackson has been accused of molesting children. Allen started dating a 22 year old who was the adopted daughter of Mia Farrow, the woman Allen dated for years, but never married.

[defendandprotect]

85. No -- Woody Allen was seen with an odd sexual interest in Mia's 3 year old adopted daughter ...!!!

LATER Woody moved on to her older Asian daughter --

Mia found pornographic photos of her which Woody had taken!!!

[joeybee12]

75. Um, she was 18 when Woody started the relationship....18...

...still creepy, but harly illegal.

[defendandprotect]

86. It was Mia's 3 year old daughter who Woody was accused of sexually abusing . . .

LATER he took a fancy to anothere adopted daugther of Mia's - a young

Asian girl -- and Mia found out about that because she found pornographic

photos of that daughter taken by Woody!!!

Wow -- how can so many not know the truth of all this???

[wolfgangmo]

115. And how can you know the truth?

Are you blessed with the second sight? Are you a swami?

Does God talk to you?

I don't know the truth of this the same way you don't. the difference is that I am not blinded by my prejudices.

[MajorChode]

136. Few can say definitely either way

Even though people on both sides of this issue have claimed as much.

However, there is such a thing as forming a reasonable opinion. My opinion is that Allen diddled his kids and there's plenty to base that on, and I don't think it's unreasonable or has anything to do with prejudices. I do think those would claim definitely that he didn't are more than just a bit naive.

[Paladin]

76. Woody Allen's Actions Don't Excuse Michael Jackson's Actions.

Jackson's not guilty verdict was clearly attained by huge payoffs to the parents of the boys involved.

The Woody Allen matter is similar to the Roman Polanski situation, which a I brought up a couple of days ago. My question to you MJ apologists remains the same: to what extent are you willing to allow a brilliant artist's work to excuse reprehensible behavior? And if you're going to (quite rightly) trash Allen and Polanski, why are you cutting MJ all this slack?

[seabeyond]

78. who says woody is loved. he lost a lot of lot of admiration for what he did

and i dont think he has recovered.

the basis to your argument is flawed and certainly not based on any valid info

[reflection]

79. I hardly think Woody Allen is loved.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

Although 'Love and Death' is one of my very favorite movies...

[Politicalboi]

81. When children can describe your penis

And Michael himself talked about sleeping with children, and he had to pay millions of dollars in the 90's I think he is guilty. Giving the kids alcohol and calling it Jesus juice. Yeah I think he's guilty, and Woody Allen is a creep too.

[defendandprotect]

84. Agree on both --

And evidently the parents are gaining custody of MJ's children--!!!

The same father who supposedly sexually abused his own children--!!!???

[wolfgangmo]

117. But luckily you don't engage in unnecessary punctuation to express ...

... your moral outrage and superiority!!!???

Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

[defendandprotect]

159. Of course, punctuation is much more important than pedophlia . . .!!!

or beatings of children, cruel behavior towards them .. .

Jackson first spoke openly about his childhood abuse in a 1993 interview with Oprah Winfrey. He said that during his childhood he often cried from loneliness and would sometimes get sick or start to regurgitate upon seeing his father. In Jackson's other high profile interview, Living with Michael Jackson (2003), the singer covered his face with his hand and began crying when talking about his childhood abuse. Jackson recalled that Joseph sat in a chair with a belt in his hand as he and his siblings rehearsed and that "if you didn't do it the right way, he would tear you up, really get you."

In her 1991 book LaToya: Growing up in the Jackson Family, LaToya Jackson openly and poignantly accused her father of physical and sexual abuse. She said in the book that Joe had sexually abused the oldest daughter, Reebie.
Joe and Reebie denied LaToya’s claims. Latoya, whose singing career was short-lived, later recanted her claims.

http://voiceofwomenindia.blogspot.com/2009/01/michael-jackson-wacko-jackos-rise-and.html

[defendandprotect]

83. I don't watch Woody Allen movies anymore --

and, yes, I do think that the reports of his perversions with the three year old

adopted by Mia Farrow are likely.

It was LATER that Woody moved on to the other adopted daughter . . . Soon-Yi

Mia found pornographic photos of her by Woody.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherine Vincent]

125. You need to remember that you can't take what's posted on this board personally

That is a personal attack and you should retract.

[Romulox]

91. MJ's death is being treated like the death of a demigod. Don't understand the premise of the OP. nt

[cemaphonic]

129. yeah, seriously

DU flamewars aren't "the media." We took my boy to a Muppet exhibit at the Experience Music Project at the Seattle Center over the weekend, and not only were there two different PA systems blaring different songs of his, inside the EMP, they were showing that mid-80s Jackson 5 concert video on a 30 foot high screen.

[JVS]

92. Because as much of a weirdo as Allen is, MJ is like a Citizen Kane of fucked up former child stars

Allen's weirdness is straightforward. Jackson's story is a epic of the bizarre.

Oh, and Allen isn't loved, although it seems that people do like working with him. People also liked working with Jackson.

[WeDidIt]

97. Woody Allen is a prick

I despise Woody Allen.

He's creepeier than Michals Jackson ever was, and that's saying a lot!

[Laelth]

105. MJ threatened established gender, sex, and race roles.

Was he a man or a woman? Was he gay or straight? Was he white or black? People often react badly to those who bend and stretch established categories.

I still think his music is awesome, and I know MJ had an enormous impact on the world (much greater than many give him credit for).

:dem:

-Laelth

[cagesoulman]

106. Hey, how about you put up links and evidence for the Woody Allen thing?

The only real proof of Allen's evil and his feelings about getting away with it occur in "Crimes and Misdemeanors" (1989), where his protagonist gets entirely away with murdering his wife and spends the last scene enjoying his daughter's wedding, telling a wedding guest (to whom he has just revealed the murder and the getting away with it) that "the sun still shines" when he gets up in the morning.

With Jackson, we have the descriptions of the acts, the trials and the payoffs. With Allen, we don't have as much. It was a one-time set of accusations during a divorce. I'd like to know more?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

108. I didn't see any fellow entertainers bashing MJ

There were still plenty of people who wanted to work with him, just like there are plenty who want to work with Woody Allen.

[wolfgangmo]

119. Let his work stand alone.

If like many great artists, his work is truly great then his work will live long after his passing.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

112. I love to watch Allen's films but that doesn't mean that I think he's

a great human being. In fact, I think he's rather odd.

A past friend of mine did contracting for his upper east side apt and while she was there with the crew, he sat haunched in a corner and was totally unresponsive to them.

As to him and Soon Yi, I found it at first reprehensible, later saddening, but there was nothing illegal about it at all.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

116. How about Thomas Jefferson, John Kennedy and William O. Douglas?

Seeing as how the sex lives of celebrities are the hot topic today.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

127. I love Woody Allen's films

I think he's one of the very greatest. As far as his personal life is concerned, I don't consider that any of my business, unlike some of the perenially-outraged holier-than-thous on this website who look for any opportunity to witch-hunt someone over their pet issue, whether they have a scintilla of proof or not.

[earth mom]

128. I haven't watched a Woody Allen film ever since. That slimeball is a pervert.

:puke:

[LynneSin]

132. Because Soon-Yi was 22 when their relationship started

probably why

[madmom]

133. I can honestly say I never cared for either one.

[Bluzmann57]

139. Michael Jordan is much loved

Oh you mean Michael Jackson.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

172. except for those who hate him for endorsing sweatshop products

since you bring him up, even in jest

[travelingtypist]

144. I don't love him.

I haven't watched a movie of his since that happened. I thought it was disgusting what he did. He was in the parent/father role for that girl. Eeww.

[progressoid]

145. YEA!!! Another Michael Jackson thread!

This is almost better than when the Pope croaked.

:banghead:

[RufusTFirefly]

147. I think that's a fair question

Although I think you are overplaying your hand by suggesting that "Woody Allen is loved by all."

Nonetheless, it touches on what I call "the Wagner issue."
Should an artist's personal life influence the way in which we view his or her art?

[Norrin Radd]

148. Quite a lot of rock stars have had sex with underage girls.

[ailsagirl]

149. self-delete

[Hydra]

156. Woody Allen is hardly "loved"

And as someone rightly pointed out, Jackson is being treated as a demigod, rather than a rather troubled artist that was wildly successful at one point.

Allen is NEVER going to get that kind of adulation, and thus, his bad habits are merely a reminder of how gross he is.

[Mike 03]

162. Woody Allen was disgraced. Where have you been?

You don't call this an outpouring for Michael Jackson?

[maglatinavi]

169. the media mj and wa

both are disgusting... i cannot understand the people's tastes ...

[LittleClarkie]

175. Who loves Woody Allen?

Don't include me in your "all"

I thought many still saw him as a creep

[Deja Q]

183. Jerry Lee Lewis boned his first cousin too...

[Blue_In_AK]

184. I don't love Woody Allen.

I think he's a creep, and I did even before the thing with his stepdaughter.

[HughMoran]

187. I don't buy your premise

Woody Allen is not loved by me or anybody I know. He's a creep too BTW.

[laststeamtrain]

196. Maybe it's because Woody never dressed up as Sergeant Pepper? n/t.

[endarkenment]

197. Allen is tolerated as was Jackson

then again there were no serious accusations against Allen of actual child abuse. Both of them, despite their personal lives, continued to receive due praise for their artistic talents.

Artists are frequently very odd people.

[CBGLuthier]

198. Your "facts" are in error

In 1992, when the affair was discovered she was 22 years old.

I suppose the fact they have been happily married for 12 years, that she was never, ever his daughter and that she wasn't 12 doesn't mean anything.

And wasn't it classy how Mia Farrow accused him of molesting their son? She deserves a special place in hell for that.