Doctor tried to find working phone for 30 minutes while Michael Jackson was dying, lawyer says

[undeterred]

Michael Jackson's doctor scrambled for 30 minutes to find a working phone to call 911 as the superstar lay dying in his palatial Bel Air mansion, the doctor's lawyer revealed Monday.

The land lines in the rented mansion were all shut down for "privacy reasons," and Dr. Carlton Murray didn't use his cell phone to get help because he didn't know Jackson's address, the lawyer said.

Amazingly, Murray called for security, but no one answered. The doctor finally had to run downstairs to get a chef to summon help for the dying King of Pop.

"This entire time, with the exception of him running downstairs, he was performing CPR on Michael Jackson," Edward Chernoff, Murray's lawyer, told CNN.

It wasn't immediately clear whether the stunning phone snafu contributed to Jackson's death on Thursday, but every moment is critical when reviving a patient in cardiac arrest like Jackson.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/michael_jackson/2009/06/29/2009-06-29_doctor_frantically_tried_to_find_working_phone_while_michael_jackson_was_dying_l.html#ixzz0Js4d8RO6&D

:wtf:

[Skittles]

1. this "doctor" sounds like an epic fail

when I take care of neigbhor's HOMES when they are on vacation I have the address / phone on me at all times

[RobinA]

20. I Dunno...

I cat sit several places and I don't know the addresses. I'd like to think that I would describe the place, but it's hard to know how one would react if a person were arresting in front of them.

[Skittles]

22. you should know the address, have it on hand

really, you'll be grateful if an emergency ever arises

[undeterred]

24. Well if you're a frickin' cardiologist

you should be at your very best when someone is arresting in front of you.

[lindisfarne]

45. The phone is a small issue - he should have had staff deal with that while he did CPR on the FLOOR!

The medical board needs to examine this issue - he shouldn't be practicing if he doesn't know the basic stuff. (any MD should know this)

[adamuu]

124. you mean bed n/t

[TorchTheWitch]

132. I think lindisfarne is saying it should have been done on the floor

and not on the bed where it was said to have been done. MJ should have been moved onto the floor for CPR and was certainly light enough for the doctor to move him there on his own. One of the big reasons most believe he was dead when found and no CPR actually took place until the EMT's arrived.

[siligut]

151. A bed will give way when doing compressions.

Even in a hospital the person needing CPR is moved onto a hard board.

[moggie]

153. Right, and those two situations are completely the same

Cat-sitter, cardiologist: it's uncanny how similar the two professions are. :eyes:

[napoleon_in_rags]

40. Well cell phones have GPS positioning anyway.

when you call 911, so they can find you. And even if it DIDN'T, he still should have called 911 and see if they could find it!

[sunnybrook]

91. that was my first thought

this is the best they can come up with?

[WillyT]

61. Your Neighbors Let You Take Care Of Their Homes When They're On Vacation ???

:hide::scared::hide:

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

2. WTF?

My doctor carries her cell phone in her pocket all day long... and it lays on her bedside table at night. Same with my veterinarian.

Sounds like bullshit.

[undeterred]

3. The article says he had his cell phone

but didn't know the address. That wouldn't have stopped me from calling 911. If you have an accident in the middle of nowhere, you still call 911.

[kestrel91316]

9. Hell, in this town all he had to do is say "I'm somewhere in Holmby Hills at

Michael Jackson's house" and probably anybody on any street corner in the area could have pointed the way to the paramedics. They could have asked the star map guys.

[TorchTheWitch]

42. All he had to say he was at the house Jackson was renting

Everyone in the town would have known exactly which house it was. Michael Jackson doesn't go unnoticed. They probably would have had to have even brought in additional police support just for Jackson and his minions when they first arrived. There is no possible way that Michael and his minions came to town and set up housekeeping without every single person in town knowning everything about it whether they wanted to or not.

[JPZenger]

142. If he knew the street, the paramedics could have started rolling

If he knew the street name, the paramedics could have started driving to the location, and then he could let them know a few minutes later when he found out the house number.

[Nikia]

34. I agree

A lot of times they can track you. If they can't, they can usually work with you to figure out where your location. I assume that he got there somehow originally and maybe even went out of the house occaisionally.

[Freddie Stubbs]

74. How did he know how to get to drive his car to Jackson's house if the didn't know the address?

:shrug:

[JuniperLea]

143. Yep...

You'd think a doctor would know how to react in an emgergency.

[liberalhistorian]

6. I agree, this makes no sense whatsoever. Even if he really

didn't know the address, which I very highly doubt, most people would at least have used their cell phone to describe the location. This smells like bullshit and I think this "doctor" is simply covering his ass.

[JuniperLea]

145. Yep...

Flimsy excuses... I'm sure he was running his "story" through his head before calling. I think every doctor who gave him drugs, every pharmacy who had records of an abundance (several bags full in evidence) of drugs being prescribed, and every plastic surgeon who took it a cut over the edge should be locked up. Greedy bastards.

[mike_c]

13. cell phone service won't provide the address to 911 dispatchers....

I can understand his motive, even if his actions were not the most effective. But not everyone reacts like a champ during desperate emergencies. I can see myself making the same mistake-- knowing that a 911 call over a landline will provide instant location information to emergency dispatchers, so he became fixed on that solution. It's a common problem when you have to make split second decisions under emergency conditions.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. It does where I live

I called 911 from the highway once when I saw an accident. The dispatcher was able to tell me which mile marker was the nearest.

[mike_c]

32. interesting-- it's one of the arguments folks here use for keeping a land line....

:shrug:

Anyway, I certainly was under the impression that the cell would not show up on the dispacher's location readout-- maybe the doctor thought the same, even if it is erroneous.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. And I can't tell you if it works that way from my house

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

57. Here:

http://www.hearusnow.org/phones/13/

By order of Congress, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has instituted rules to make sure that wireless 911 tragedies like those listed by the National Emergency Number Association (NENA) no longer occur, but there is much more to be done.

The Wireless Communications and Public Safety Act of 1999, also called the 911 Act, took effect in October of 1999 and called for the prompt deployment of a nationwide communications infrastructure for emergency response. The 911 Act directed the FCC to establish 911 as the universal emergency number for all telephone services. In order to carry out this mandate, the FCC has set forth the following relevant rules for the development of Enhanced, or "E" 911:

* Phase 1 Deployment: Phase I requires that, when you call 911 from your cell phone, your wireless provider pinpoint your location to the nearest signal tower. This information isn't terribly accurate, because the nearest tower may not be very close to you. Phase I was supposed to be completely implemented by April 1998 or upon request by a Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) or dispatcher – whichever came first. ComCARE Alliance (Communications for Coordinated Assistance and Response to Emergencies) in their 911 factsheets that most wireless subscribers are not yet covered by Phase I. However, Dispatch Monthly reports that according to the Department of Transportation, as of October 2003, 65% of PSAPs have put in place Phase I service. It also reports that, because of the considerable cost associated with upgrading equipment to meet Phase I standards, a number of wireless providers are choosing to skip Phase I and move straight to Phase II.

* Phase II Deployment: Phase II requires that, when you call 911 from your cell phone, your wireless provider can determine your exact location (longitude and latitude on a map). Phase II is supposed to be implemented by December 2005. Phase II deployment appears to be coming along, though there is a growing gap between states with large communities that are Phase II-ready, and states with small communities that aren't. For the current status of Phase II deployment, see National Emergency Number Association fact sheets. Phase II will be expensive (NENA estimates costs at $8 billion for nationwide deployment), since equipment displays will have to be sophisticated enough to display caller location information.

E911 deployment efforts will only be minimally useful, however, until proper testing and reporting procedures are established and enforced. Right now, the FCC requires that providers report on their E911 status and success twice a year. Unfortunately, many providers are failing to meet this obligation, or denying that the obligation exists at all. And some providers, concerned with profit, are refusing to provide accurate 911 coverage information.
How do Emergency Personnel Locate Callers?

Just because you have a voice signal does not mean you can be located by your provider if you dial 911. For a voice call, you only need one tower to pick up your voice and transmit it. When you call 911, it is different. The two methods that providers currently use to locate you are satellite and tower triangulation. A satellite can provide a more accurate location, but satellites are blocked by bad weather — a common factor in emergencies. Tower triangulation is less accurate, because providers can only approximate your location by connecting three towers and determining approximately where you are between them. Triangulation is especially problematic in rural areas, because the towers are placed along the roads, in straight lines, making triangulation difficult or impossible.

[mike_c]

62. thanks-- so as I read that, one should NEVER assume that cell 911 calls...

...currently provide the accurate location information that land lines offer. That's pretty much the impression I had. They might provide approximate location, but "to the cell tower" in a city like LA is not nearly enough information for emergency response.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

35. The guy's a freakin' cardiologist. He's not even a GP etc. It's his JOB to "react like a champ"

during desperate emergencies. Seriously. Like cardiac arrests.

I don't have all the facts, but this story smells like this guy has whored out his medical license to administer Jackson with the narcotics he was addicted to. That job probably comes with big money and big risks. The big risk is, if MJ dies of an OD or for any other reason, the fishy circumstances of his "medical care" become known to the world, and the good doctor's license and freedom are at risk.

I don't know that any of this is true but that's the scenario I'm smelling here.

[mike_c]

38. that may very well be true....

I'm just saying that I can understand how it might not be. No reason to rush to crucify someone before we examine the facts, AND try to imagine the stresses in play during the situation. The doctor was evidently engaged in CPR the whole time, and might have been pretty freaked out. I certainly would have been. Training only goes so far, and not everyone has the intrinsic leadership ability to solve dire problems outside the box on the first iteration.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

54. The fact that the guy kind of made himself scarce in the immediate period of Jackson going to the

hospital, and didn't show himself again until lawyered up, gives me a not so good feeling about the situation. It could be completely on the up and up, but it just doesn't have that flavor to me.

[sunnybrook]

95. I think you have a great sense of smell!

"this story smells like this guy has whored out his medical license to administer Jackson with the narcotics he was addicted to."

What cracks me up is how his lawyers were stressing that he gave up working in his regular medical practice, with alot of patients, etc... to care for Jackson. As if this were an act of charity, a real "Mother Teresa" move, as if working for Michael Jackson came with no particular perks! These people are unbelievable!

[JuniperLea]

140. I caught a whiff of that myself...

And the way his comments have been worded. He never gave or injected MJ with these two specific drugs the day he died. Ok. What about the day before?

[RobinA]

147. The Difference Being

that few to no doctors are trained to react like a champ in someones house with exactly zero equipment around. Unless the guy was in a war or started out as a paramedic (or even if), I seriously doubt if he knows how to save a person in cardiac arrest using common household supplies. Thsi wasn't a TV show.

[JuniperLea]

138. Yes it does

Most of them do. In fact, while setting up my phone several years ago, it was one of the prompts... location finder all the time, or just for 911. I had forgotten about the function, and was shocked when I had to call the police about a shooting and then got angry because they never asked my location... they said they already knew, and read it back to me, down to the unit number. You can even get phones that will report back to you the location of our spouse, kids, whomever has their phone info in your contact list and has given permission for you to track their whereabouts.

[RobinA]

141. Thank You!

Apparently many people commenting on this thread have the experience to know that they would remain calm, cool and collected when facing a life and death emergency and could be counted on to do the rational thing in an environment fairly unfamiliar to them.

I admire them all, because studies on human behavior in this type of emergency indicate that MOST people will do all kinds of irrational and downright bizarre things. This is an exceptional group. Or a deluded one.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

4. I would take the good doctor's story with a grain of salt. Whatever he's selling, I ain't buyin'.

[dana_b]

144. CPR on the bed, no narcan, didn't even try the cell

phone... I do understand being nervous in an emergency and making some mistakes, but those seem like such basic functions to me that I can't quite comprehend his thinking.

I'm a nurse and have had to initiate CPR once by myself. It's not easy but you have to just go back to your training and think through the basics.

[undeterred]

165. I found a patient who had arrested when I was a nurses aide

working on a medical unit. I had been trained in CPR and how to page for a code. In the moment that I was standing over this patient I felt really uncertain and the phone was on the other side of the bed. I didn't call the code or initiate CPR. BUT I yelled I NEED HELP, I NEED A DOCTOR and there was somebody in the room (a physician) taking charge of the whole situation within 5-10 seconds.

Then a whole bunch of people came in the room with a crash cart. I took the patients wife down the hall and sat with her in another room. That part I was really comfortable with.

I felt really stupid afterwards because I had been trained in what to do and I didn't act on it but the nurses I worked with said it was much better that I did what I did instead of trying to be heroic. The really important point is the urgency. Ask for help instead of trying to do it all yourself.

[high density]

5. Didn't know the address?

What?? It's not like this guy just stopped with a flat tire outside of MJ's house.

[obliviously]

7. Yeah that was it the phone killed him.

It couldn't have been the narcotics.

[PSzymeczek]

14. Two more plastic grocery bags

of prescription drugs found today. Can we all say "stockpile"? I knew we could.

[latebloomer]

8. He didn't use his cell phone because he didn't know MJ's address?

Yeah, like the local police had NO IDEA where Michael Jackson lived. :eyes:

Think up a more convincing load of crap, would you?

[undeterred]

15. If its a rental home he was living in for a short time,

maybe not. But somehow the doctor knew how to get there so he must have known about where it was.

[latebloomer]

27. Somehow I think the police

would know about it.

[undeterred]

33. When you have a life threatening emergency

you call for help ASAP. Until you do that you're just wasting time. Either this doc is a real dufus or there is a huge cover up of what really happened to Michael Jackson.

[latebloomer]

43. I'd vote for number 2

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

67. See my post #35 above. My theory is that they are covering up an OD.

[eShirl]

127. all of the above

[sunnybrook]

97. but they were extra careful to not use his name

We have a 50 year old male that is not breathing... the whole 911 call, never the mention of who he is. Why do you think that is?

[MilesColtrane]

118. Could have been so the EMTs didn't have to fight their way through the inevitable....

...paparazzi scrum.

[sunnybrook]

130. good point

I think it is probably hard for any of us to imagine the extreme isolation he had to live under his whole life

[Obi Wan Jesus]

10. hmmmmm

something smells fishy with this story.

[riderinthestorm]

11. I thought most phones were equipped with GPS locators now, aren't they?

Why do I have some weird idea that cell phone locations can be tracked down via GPS, and that most phones are equipped like that?

Couldn't the doctor have called 911, left his phone on, and the emergency crew located him through that (assuming I'm correct on the technology, which it's possible I'm not... :silly: )

[Fumesucker]

18. I have a Blackberry Flip that does not have GPS..

This is a fairly recent model but it is one of the smaller cell phones around.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

59. See my post #57 above.

[Selatius]

12. What the doctor is saying. This smells like bullshit.

[kestrel91316]

16. Oh, and the good doctor didn't need a frickin' address. All he had to do is

give the dispatcher specific instructions for how to get there, turn left on this street, right on this street, house/gate looks like this, etc. Don't tell me he was living someplace he not only didn't know the address, but also couldn't give directions. Where the fuck did this assclown buy his medical degree? Was HE maybe on some of those drugs, too? Maybe that's why he disappeared for two days - he had to dry out.......

[undeterred]

19. Well, the doc obviously had to find himself a lawyer.

But any fool could have called 911, or asked someone else at the home to call.

[TeeYiYi]

131. Bingo... hair follicle test. nt

TYY :thumbsup:

[no_hypocrisy]

17. Three lines of doubt.

1. No GPS in the cell phone for satellite location?

2. The police couldn't trace the location of a cell phone call?

3. The doctor never bothered to learn the address of the house? Even a 12 yo babysitter has that information.

[kestrel91316]

23. They were paying this guy HOW MUCH a month to be MJ's personal physician

in the home and he couldn't be bothered to learn the physical address where he and his patient were??

I think he is a lying douche and is hiding something very bad/inappropriate/inexcusible.

[rainbow4321]

28. $150,000/month.

Is what he was expecting to get. Contract was never signed by MJ himself so the promotion company is basically telling him "get it from MJ's estate because we paid MJ upfront"...doc & his lawyer claim that he is still owed for 2 months.
Given the circumstances...the last thing this guy needs to do is bitch about not getting paid yet.

[kestrel91316]

47. For $5k a day, I'd make a point of knowing the address where I was living

and working. ESPECIALLY if I had worked 2 months without getting paid yet.

Doubleplusgood assclown........

[sunnybrook]

99. ESPECIALLY

considering what he was hired for... a PERSONAL cardiologist? This would seem to indicate that perhaps you need to be near in case there is an emergency, specifically with his heart! Might want to have your ducks in a row then, moron, like where the hell am I? Of course this assumes that he was there in his role as a physician and not a drug dealer with a degree...

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

105. Ding ding ding - I'm smellin' what you're cooking, and I agree.

See my other posts. I suspect "glorified dealer with a degree" is the scenario, and that's why this guy beat feet and laid low until he could get lawyered up.

[htuttle]

21. How did he get there if he didn't know the address?

That is the stupidest story I've ever heard. I bet he's spinning to cover up the fact that Jackson had probably been dead for longer than he was supposed to have been by the time the EMT's got there. But why?

[TorchTheWitch]

137. sleeping at the wheel

Same thing with Anna Nicole Smith... no one wanted to be blamed for being asleep at the wheel while she died alone right under their noses. Murray wants to make it appear that he was right there when he arrested and tried valiantly to save his life when he more than likely went to check on him and found him already quite dead... his career relies on people believing his BS. Unfortunately for him, all of his actions coupled with what his attorney is saying just serve to work against him and even make him appear even more guilty than he may actually be.

[rocktivity]

25. You couldn't call out of the house? He's lived there two weeks and didn't know the address?

And is he aware that 911 could have tracked him easily?

:eyes:
rocktivity

[dana_b]

146. maybe I'm wrong but

I thought that you could pick up a "dead" phone, call 911 and get a response. Is that a myth?

[nightrain]

26. probably more like a respiratory arrest....

If some of the reports are true or close--MJ had a pulse when found. Overdoses with opiates like Demerol and oxycontin, mixed with the other reported drugs would lead to a respiratory arrest.

Too bad the MD didn't have Narcan available to reverse the effects of the opiates... or maybe it wouldn't have mattered.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

29. No phones in the house?

No land lines? With three kids in the house?

"For privacy reasons"?

Kids are on the phone ALL the time.

Well, normal kids are. Jackson's kid - who knows?

If Jackson died because an employee didn't know the address of the house, that's got to be one of the most bizarre - and, admit it, funny - incidents in our history.....................

[Canuckistanian]

103. Jackson was famous for changing phone numbers often

And, as such was probably often without a working landline. He probably relied on people around him with cell phones.

Unfortunately in this case, he relied on the wrong person.

[TheCowsCameHome]

31. How did the doctor get there if he didn't know where he was going?

This is getting better and better............

[undeterred]

36. Maybe the paparazzi dropped him off.

:shrug:

[TorchTheWitch]

37. Shades of Anna Nicole

Stupid asscovering excuses to try to disguise that Jackson was already stone cold dead when the doctor found him. Even the same excuse of not knowing the street address and bullshit about him getting CPR while still on the bed. Same as Anna Nicole... nobody wants to admit the celebrity died while no one was paying attention.

The article got his name wrong... it's Conrad Murray not Carlton Murray.

[spanone]

39. he should have called on his cell, they would have found him.....

[ThoughtCriminal]

41. Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard...

[lindisfarne]

44. Wasn't the guy a cardiologist? and he did CPR in a bed? The medical board needs to examine this -it

goes beyond MJ.

As for finding a phone, well, sometimes I can't find mine, but he should have been ordering the staff to call, and doing CRP on the floor. It's not like MJ was too heavy to pull to the floor.
(And even if he wasn't a cardiologist - every MD knows this).

[undeterred]

46. According to another report MJ collapsed on the living room floor.

No idea how he ended up in bed, or who summoned the doctor.

[lindisfarne]

53. Shows how bad rumors can be.n/t

[TorchTheWitch]

81. Doc himself said the bed

and so did whoever it was that made the 911 call. Dr. Murray even said he did CPR with one hand behind Jackson supporting his back... so he did inadequate CPR inappropriately on the bed.

BULLSHIT. Doc found him stone cold dead and everybody wasted a lot of time panicing and deciding what to do to cover their asses before calling 911. Just like Anna Nicole Smith. Nobody wanted to be accused of being asleep at the wheel while the celebrity died under their nose.

[cherokeeprogressive]

48. I don't put much stock in what "lawyers" say. They are bound by the need to be advocates for their

clients.

The doctor's lawyer said this? To me that's just CYA in action.

[rocktivity]

123. DING DING DING! Cherokeeprogressive, you're our grand prize winner!

The doctor's lawyer said this? To me that's just CYA in action.

Pre-trial jury tampering, I call it. Chertoff (any relation to Skeletor?) knows he has to come up with an explanation for the 911 call. It would have helped if he came up with a logical one.

Wasn't the doctor living there? If not, didn't he know how to drive there? And what difference would it have made what kind of phone they used if they didn't know the address.

x(
rocktivity

[ecstatic]

49. His lawyer was stumbling tonight on Larry King

Guess it's hard for him to remember all the lies. :eyes:

[undeterred]

50. Took 2 days to make 'em up.

[LisaL]

51. How did this doctor get to the house if he didn't know the

address?
He is an adult, not a little child.

[mike_c]

63. I have been driving to my girl friend's home for nearly a year...

...and I cannot resolve the address any closer than the town she lives in. I don't know the name of the street or the house number. Of course, I had that information the first time I visited there-- but once I knew the way, I lost the address because I no longer need it in order to find the house.

I'd say that's pretty common. How many places do you visit regularly that you don't know the street address? How about your grocery store? Know their actual address off the top of your head? How about the closest hospital? The closest elementary school?

[undeterred]

66. So you wouldn't call 911 if your gf had a cardiac arrest?

[mike_c]

68. that's the most illogical non sequitor in a thread that's pretty devoid of logic....

Please explain how you got from A (I can find my way to my GF's house without knowing the address) to B (I'd let her die without calling 911).

Stunning logic. Please elaborate for those of us who find utterly no connection between those two assertions!

[LisaL]

71. Let's say her landline isn't on and you need to call 911

using a cell phone. What are you going to do, you don't know the address?
Do tell.

[mike_c]

75. it's not an entirely bogus question....

She does not have a land line. I do not have a cell phone, and I know in advance that emergency services in my county cannot yet use cell phones to locate 911 calls in unincorporated areas. There is no possible way for me to deal with the situation you posit except by doing the best I can do at the time, probably running to a neighbor's house or something while her heart and brain died. The point is, we've never practiced for that particular scenario and until you posed it, I had not planned how to respond. I suspect that's pretty common, actually.

While Los Angeles is not Rio Dell, Humboldt County, it is similar in many respects because of the anonymity of scale.

[LisaL]

76. I suggest you learn her address.

It's a good idea even for little children to learn their address in case they are lost.
You never know when you might need it.

[mike_c]

80. there really aren't places you go regularly but don't know the street address...?

I guess I'm pretty amazed, and not a little abashed. I didn't know people did that sort of thing. Kudos to you for having such awesome knowledge of your world. Seriously. I'm in awe.

[LisaL]

83. I am an adult. I don't think it's that amazing that I know where

I am at.

[tammywammy]

109. I'm the same

I know where my friend's houses are but don't know their address, even though I go to their houses all the time.

[LisaL]

69. So what's gonna happen if your gf has an emergency?

Are you gonna run around for 30 minutes not knowing how to summon 911? By the way most people aren't given the address of their grocery stores. But if I don't know the exact address of my grocery store, I sure could describe where I was in case there was an emergency in a grocery store and nobody else could call 911.

[mike_c]

77. see #75

My point is that it's not at all far fetched that one might not be able to tell emergency services where they are with sufficient accuracy to guide responders to the address.

[undeterred]

110. The doctor was at work.

Have you ever had a job where you would have been unable to call 911 because you couldn't identify the business you were at or where it was?

Years ago when I lived in Chicago there was a fire in an office building late at night. There was one woman working in an office and the power went out before she knew the building was on fire. She dialed 911 and told them the name of the company. Unfortunately it had a "vanity" address so the firemen didn't find it as quickly as they should have.

She had half an hour of panic, and time to call her father to say goodbye. She could not find her way out of the building and died of smoke inhalation. I'd say knowing where you are at is pretty important.

[mike_c]

113. but it wasn't a business, it was a home, on a street with lots of other homes...

...in a neighborhood with lots of other streets, and so on. In Los Angeles. A megalopolis.

Yes, I think it's entirely feasible to not have a clear sense of how to SPECIFY an address to an emergency dispatcher who was probably miles away under those circumstances.

I'm clearly in a minority in this thread. I'm beginning to think I'm really dumb. Does EVERYONE know the street address where they are, all the time? I don't. I admit it, and I can empathize with others who don't (although, judging by this thread, we're a small minority).

[moggie]

139. Are you her doctor?

No? Then I don't see how the comparison is relevant. The guy was under contract to Jackson, in a profession where, as a matter of routine, he needs to be equipped to deal with emergencies. This is not remotely a "do you know the address of your grocery store" situation: it's his job to be prepared for trouble, and he'd have been given the address when he took the job. He could even have it stored in his phone: there's no real excuse not to.

This is either incompetence, or dishonesty, or both.

[SOS]

52. The doctor most likely found a phone...

And he was on the line with his lawyer.
"Michael Jackson is dead. What the hell do I do now?"

[ColbertWatcher]

56. Interesting point.

I wonder what calls they would find on his cell phone bill for the period of time he was "caring" for Jackson.

[Flabbergasted]

89. Yeah that's true. nt

[HughMoran]

58. Fucking, fucking, fucking, fucking, fucking, fucking, fucking, fucking lamest excuse ever.

What a fucking moron.

[omega minimo]

60. His address was "Michael Jackson's house." How hard is that?

:wow:

[mike_c]

64. it's LOS ANGELES....

Bit of a big city, you know?

[omega minimo]

65. He makes the call with location and SOMEBODY sorts out the house. Bit of BIG CELEBRITY

you know.

[mike_c]

70. do you seriously think that emergency dispatchers in a city of what...,

...nine or ten million people know where all the celebrities live? Hell, there are only a few hundred people in my town, and I don't know the street addresses of the most prominent citizens. How about you? Do you know the street addresses of your county commissioners, off hand? How about your mayor? Your congress persons?

Come ON. I live in California. Until he died, I didn't even know Michael Jackson was living in the U.S. again, let alone that he lived in Los Angeles! Most people don't know that sort of thing, even about celebrities in their own town.

[LisaL]

73. So he doesn't know the address, he doesn't know the street,

an intersection, a description of the house, he has no idea of a location where he is at?
He can't possibly summon help.
I get it.
By the way the brain turns to toast after like 10 minutes of heart stopping.

[bettyellen]

85. no, but I am sure they can get the info in less than a minute if they make a call or two..

because cops or EMS people would jump when they heard it was Michael, they;d find out,

[mike_c]

90. OK, now imagine you're the doctor giving Michael Jackson CPR...

...and you know there's a pretty good chance he's either dying or dead. I got into this thread because I tried to make the point, up thread, that in that position many people would fixate on the solution they know to be tenable-- call 911 on a landline-- and avoid the course that would only complicate matters further-- call a dispatcher on a cell phone and try to describe a location you're unsure of, in a city of 9.8 million, and invite the dispatcher to flail away with you. While you're trying to keep your patient alive-- something that demands a LOT of your attention.

I suspect that you're right-- the best course would have been to call on the cell, if for no other reason than that locating the residence would at least partially become someone else' problem, but if you're inclined to reject solutions you think are unlikely to succeed in favor of solutions that should be a sure thing, and in a desperate emergency? I cannot fault the doctor, at least not with the information I've heard so far. Maybe he could have done better. Maybe not. But I'm not ready to crucify him like so many in this thread seem to be.

[LisaL]

94. The guy is a physician hired to take care of MJ.

And yet he doesn't have any idea where he is at? Wouldn't it be prudent to know where he is at in case of an emergency?

[mike_c]

98. well of course it would have been prudent....

I've simply tried to point out that it's not so unheard of to NOT know, or to assume that there are straightforward means of finding that information if you need it. We've already established that YOU always know the street address of everywhere you are, all the time-- something I'm utterly in awe of-- but I still don't think it's as outrageous that this doctor didn't as most others in this thread seem to believe, but I'm speaking from my own experience, which we've also established is pretty lame, at least compared to the example you set.

[bettyellen]

106. apparently they were right off a big famous street... and he;d worked with michael for six weeks....

under the hollywood blvd sign. i just don't think it;s a plausible fear, that he wouldnlt be able to direct people there. no other contacts in the jackson household to call and ask? . if it;s true, he;s a huge panicy idiot, and a negligent one.
but if EMS called the LAPD they;d have MJ's address in moments and be on their way on double time. maybe i know this because my brother the sargent is arried to a former EMS worker, but yeah- these guys don't know where everyobody is, but they know who knows- and can find out in a jiff.
i'd think a heart doctor of his age would have more sense,

[mike_c]

111. I can't believe I'm still in this thread, but DAY-UM....

Bettyellen, you've nicely illustrated EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make:

Doctor (calling 911 dispatcher): "OMG! Michael Jackson is having a heart attack! I need an ambulance!"

Dispatcher: Sir, what is your location?"

Doctor: "I'm not sure. It's down some big famous street. It's in Bel Aire. A big house-- a mansion, really."

Dispatcher: "A big house on a famous street?"

Doctor: "Yes!"

Dispatcher: "In Los Angeles? A big house on a famous street in Los Angeles?"

Doctor: "Yes!"

:shrug:

You've had a chance to research this-- the doctor was up to his elbows giving CPR to a dying man-- and you can't do any better than "a big famous street" where Michael Jackson lived? That is precisely my point.

[LisaL]

112. That would have been better than not calling 911 for 30

minutes, don't you think? Remember your brain will turn to toast within minutes after your heart stops.

"Brain death and permanent death start to occur in just four to six minutes after someone experiences cardiac arrest. Cardiac arrest is reversible in most victims if it's treated within a few minutes with an electric shock to the heart to restore a normal heartbeat. This process is called defibrillation. A victim's chances of survival are reduced by 7 to 10 percent with every minute that passes without CPR and defibrillation. CPR can double or triple a cardiac arrest victim's chances of survival. Few attempts at resuscitation succeed after 10 minutes. If someone becomes unconscious, call 9-1-1 immediately. They may be suffering from sudden cardiac arrest."


http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4741

[mike_c]

114. Lisa, he is a physician-- he is better qualified to deal with an MI than the EMTs...

...who respond to 911 calls, although not necessarily better equipped. We don't have any data about that, however.

[LisaL]

115. Oh that's ridiculous.

Did he have a defibrillator with him? Seems rather obvious he didn't, or he would be using it instead of doing CPR, and we would have heard about it by now.

[mike_c]

116. I'm done with this thread....

What part of "not necessarily better equipped" was unclear?

G'night! :hi:

[LisaL]

117. Then what good does it do that he was better qualified than EMTs?

CPR isn't enough to keep someone alive for a prolonged period of time.

[omega minimo]

162. For $150,00 a month, you'd think he'd be prepared for emergencies............

:think:

[undeterred]

120. Highly educated and qualified for a medical emergency

except for the common sense part.

There's nothing magic about having a heart attack in the presence of a cardiologist. He had to know as soon as he saw MJ collapsed he would benefit from being in a medical center where they would have all the proper equipment to give him a fighting chance ASAP. The best thing he could have done for his patient would have been to evaluate the patient, call for emergency help, and then give as much medical aid as he could.

[RobinA]

149. I Would Disagree

I'm not sure a hospital-based doctor would be better eqipped OR able to handle this kind of problem IN THE FIELD than paramedics, who are taught to function in the field, while doctors are taught to function in a fully equipped hodpital with dozens of staff.

[undeterred]

119. 911 gets calls from young children

and from people who've just been shot and can hardly speak. In a true emergency they aren't going to mock someone for not knowing the street address- it probably happens a lot. Its not like ordering a pizza for delivery. They are trained to get as much information as possible from the caller, keeping the caller on the line. They have other ways of getting the location info than asking you for it.

Shit, even service dogs call 911.

[bettyellen]

126. and pets!

[bettyellen]

125. I'm saying he had better friggin know the name of the big street he worked off of for 6 weeks

and had been driving to himself...BTW, if he could convince the EMS it was truly Michael Jackson, the EMS coud make one or two calls and get the location- the loclal police pct would absolutely know. 1-00% they would know. police work close with EMS and yes, they know that kind of stuff, and can find out in a jiffy.. it's a shame for MJ that I have more common sense than his doc, and apparently, you. mj needed a defribulator not one handed CPR on a bed the guy is a fucking idiot, or hiding something.

[omega minimo]

161. I thought you let go of this stupid point

There would be enough landmarks to get things rolling and firm up the exact location. The dope knew what street he was on, at least.

BettyEllen confirmed what I said (to you) before, almost verbatim, about the police dept.

The story is BOGUS!

[omega minimo]

158. The house was also right next to the freeway, FWIW

Thanks for confirming, in LA

"but if EMS called the LAPD they;d have MJ's address in moments and be on their way on double time.... but yeah- these guys don't know where everyobody is, but they know who knows- and can find out in a jiff."

Really odd that there was any emergency procedure set up inside the household and that the security supposed disappeared?

[omega minimo]

92. It may look incredible from up in Humboldt, but yes, it would have gotten sorted out

Given who he was, given the tight security he had, probably some awareness by law enforcement, given who knows Who's Who in LA. Yes.

[mike_c]

101. but I would not have known that, or anticipated that it would be so...

...because as you noted, it would be pretty incredible where I live. My point was simply that there is ample precedence for the doctor reacting to that possibility the way he did. At least one DUer in this thread has pointed out to me that some people-- herself, at least-- always know where they are at all times. I simply never knew that was possible.

[omega minimo]

102. Yes, the whole story is so convoluted, impossible to know anything, except what a strange delay

Wonder where the security were. Or why the story puts them unavailable...........

[Retrograde]

79. For LA? Maybe

But "big celebrities" are thick on the ground down there, and Michael Jackson is a common name, and anyway I doubt the local police keep track of who's where when.

Now, it does sound a little fishy to me, but I've never been in a house with a dying celebrity who was my patient, so I don't know how panicked I'd be.

[omega minimo]

93. He could have said turn left at the big palm tree and look for a white castle surrounded by trees

:eyes:

[JI7]

87. even in a big city you can give details like street names, landmarks etc

he couldn't say Holmby Hills ?

[WolverineDG]

156. And the EMTs go to Neverland Ranch nt

[Flabbergasted]

72. This guy is lying and I'm guessing he will get caught. nt

[rainbow4321]

82. It makes me SICK to think that he was running around the house

Looking for someone to tell him the fucking address instead of GIVING CPR...what are we going to hear next: "Uh, he told someone ELSE to do CPR while he ran around the house"??


The ABC article said that the lawyer claimed "CPR was done for 25 to 30 minutes before emergency officials arrived".

Ok...so, per reports from that day, the ambulance arrived 3 minutes after they got the initial call.

The lawyer said that CPR was given 25 to 30 minutes before EMT got there. So MJ collapsed (or "was found in bed" if you go by the doc's side). Going by his timeline, they waited 22 to 27 minutes before calling 911? Does that 25 to 30 minutes include the "running around the house" time? Was the 25 to 30 minutes continuous or was there a "running around the house" intermission???

Way too many questions emerge as we find out more and more details..should be LESS questions as we find out more info.

I'm making up times here but this is what we are looking at using the lawyer's timeline:

12:30 collapses or "found"
Add 30 Minutes of CPR get you to 1 pm.
Took 3 minutes for ambulance to arrive so they would have been called at 12:57 (roughly).

Why not call them at 12:30??

[Flabbergasted]

84. And still no one has asked why he left his car at the house? nt

[LisaL]

86. The whole business with the car is strange.

If he did leave his car at the house, presumably he drove to that house. How did he drive to the house since he had no idea what the address was? How did he leave that house without his car?

[kickysnana]

135. Rode in the ambulance to the hospital with MJ. n/t

[Flabbergasted]

152. Is that what happened? nt

[bdamomma]

133. or why it took so long to find this Dr.

alot of unanswered questions.

[TorchTheWitch]

166. it had to be impounded

so he wasn't allowed to use it. Police said it had to be impounded in case it contained any medications, etc. for MJ.

[sunnybrook]

104. It shouldn't make you sick

You are giving the "doctor" and his "lawyer" far too much credit. The assumption that ANY of this story is true.

[rocktivity]

128. According to the transcript

the call came in at 12:21.

The doctor is claiming that it took him 30 minutes to find a working phone, and that he couldn't use his cell phone because he didn't know the address. Did it take him 30 minutes to find someone who knew address????

:think:
rocktivity

[blonndee]

78. No way.

This makes no sense. This stinks, badly. I would bet every penny I have (which isn't much) that there is some funny business going on. I just wonder how bad it is.

[rainbow4321]

96. New tidbit..the doc said he was giving MJ "child CPR"

and that is why he left him on the bed..he chose child CPR because MJ was 112 pounds.

OK...too bad the AHA recommends child CPR for KIDS UNDER 8 YRS OLD. and even then...the child is to be on a HARD surface.

http://www.firstaidweb.com/child.html

http://www.firstaidweb.com/child4.html

Theres only a few differences between adult and child: You use one hand on a child and two on an adult and you don't push down as deep. Again, still need to be on a hard surface.

[dana_b]

150. what?!

where did you hear this?? if this is true, he should have his license revoked.

[rainbow4321]

155. It was reported during the last 5 minutes

of Rachel Maddow's show last night. A local reporter was interviewed for updates and he quoted the doc as saying he used the defense that since MJ was 112 pounds he chose to give child CPR with MJ in his bed. As a nurse, hearing this excuse, my head promptly exploded. Basically said that MJ's weight and the firmness of the mattress made on the bed CPR ok.

[dana_b]

163. yeah -

I'm a nurse too and find this incredulous. CPR on a bed, wrong technique, didn't even try the cell phone... and no narcan or AED available and he was being paid as a cardiologist to overlook this man's health?? fuck!

[sunnybrook]

88. what a concocted bunch of bullshit!

All written as a "response" i.e. let's get our story straight... I read that he performed CPR while supposedly holding his back with one hand. Of course this is in "response" to questions like what idiot of a doctor performs CPR on a bed. And what pisses me off about our press corps is the headlines they choose.... "Doctor did not prescribe Demerol," or "Jackson still had a heartbeat,".... DUH this is what the attorney said! Of course the attorney said that! :mad:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

100. They would have been better off being quiet than trotting out this line of bull.

[tuckessee]

107. Was the good doctor a kidnap victim?

That's the only reason I can think of for a sentient, sober adult to not know where he is well enough to at least attempt to guide emergency responders, even if only by vague landmarks.

Maybe Jacko's secret army of goons snatched him off the street, knocked him out with chloroform, blindfolded him, stuffed him in the trunk and drove around for hours before finally taking him to the secret hideout.

[LisaL]

108. Apparently doctor's car was left at the house.

So presumably he drove there somehow, not having any idea as to what the physical address was?

[DaveinJapan]

121. For the folks arguing that "L.A. is a big city"

that doesn't fly. Not in this case, anyway. Perhaps the doc didn't think things through, but it would have been simple as hell to locate Michael Jackson even if he weren't at home.

Doc calls 911, dispatcher calls cops, cops call random newspapers/tabloids/tmz (probably better to stick with "legit" papers to avoid the inevitable paparazzi stampede, which would happen anyway but still...) until one is found with a photographer on scene (duh).

Problem solved, probably in less than 1 minute.

[TorchTheWitch]

122. they likely knew before he arrived

THE Michael Jackson doesn't move into a neighborhood without everyone knowing about it. His arrival with his minions alone would have been known long beforehand. The guy went nowhere without making damn sure the mobs of fans are lining the streets screaming for him and waving signs. They likely had to bring in additional police support just to deal with his arrival alone. As freakish as he was about security and privacy, there is no way that the police, firefighters, area hospitals, and anyone who is anyone in the area wouldn't have known long before his cavalcade rolled into town.

This "I didn't know the address" crap was stupid enough with Anna Nicole Smith, but with MICHAEL JACKSON it's complete absurdity.

[Junkdrawer]

129. Translation: The doctor will be charged, there will be a trial....

and his lawyer is trying to broadcast his story to the jury pool.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

134. wouldn't the doctor have a some contact number on his cell

to call MJ's house/security and tell them to call 911 if in fact no one was around. the dr must have had some number to get in touch with MJ.

[bdamomma]

136. did anyone hear that this Dr. was asked to stay in Jackson's room

to sit by Jackson's bedside while he slept, I think that was reported by the Dr.and he reported he left the room for a moment.

[flvegan]

148. "...the doctor's lawyer revealed"

I'm not saying he's lying, just doing his job of pointing out issues his client may have had through no perceived fault of his own.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

154. The doctor's an idiot... Just say, "I'm at MICHAEL JACKSONS mansion."

The 911 operator could google that shit in about 30 seconds. No reason he should not have used his cell phone.
Heck, the cops probably have Jackson's address on file and available.

[tammywammy]

159. I believe it was a rental house n/t

[Ganja Ninja]

157. What doctor doesn't have a cell phone on him? n/t

[Imagevision]

160. And Michael thought it advantageous to have a live-in Doctor?

[Politicalboi]

164. Could afford $100,000 a month rent, but no land line?

I think they are lying. I think the doctor wasted too much time and then it was too late. Hell it would have been quicker to just drive him there. There's something fishy about the whole thing. Granted Michael was a druggie and he may have played musical doctors and telling each one different stories. If anyone in the house was familar with the surroundings they should have given that info and waited outside the house for help to arrive, and they may have found an address. With cell phones all over the place it's really hard to believe that was the problem.

[TorchTheWitch]

167. EMT's said he was cold to the touch

If he was, Jackson was quite dead when he was found, the doctor knew it, and 30 minutes passed while the CYA plan was arranged.