Lobbying = Legalized Bribery

[JFN1]

Until We change the laws on this matter, We the People will always come in second to the moneyed interests running our economy, our politics, and our government.

So forget "bi-partisanship." This is only a buzzword fed to the masses.

And forget the two party system - there is no such animal in America any more.

And forget the concept of a "Christian" nation - look around you - THIS is the world our "Christian" nation has built.

And forget the Constitution - it has become a "quaint" document, since it has never accounted for Money, as political Power.

Just remember, as things continue to fall apart, as the planet is thrown deeper into irreversible warming, as the innocent are ground under the boots of Capitalism, WE could have changed it all.

But instead, WE chose to protect our own personal comfort, rather than choosing to risk it all for our children, for our country, for our planet.

If this were not the truth, things would have already changed. We would have stopped going to work, stopped buying cheap crap from Walmart, and would have flooded the streets of every town and city in this country, demanding change.

And do you know who our inaction serves? THE RICH AND POWERFUL, and their pet LOBBYISTS - who are NEVER quiet, who are ALWAYS out there getting their voices heard. Sure, they get an open door invitation to the back office, greased with loads and loads of campaign cash. SO WHAT?

We have sheer numbers. How could they possibly win against that?

[madokie]

1. In my view that is exactly what it is

We have to get two things right if we are to survive as a somewhat democracy. Lobbying and the Press

[JFN1]

14. And there is more

Lobbying is not just bad for our Democracy, but it has a particularly perverse and damaging side-effect: Corporate lobbying stifles innovation.

Think about it - if a corporation can spend a few million bribing lawmakers to alter existing laws, or create new laws, that protect the manner in which a corporation does business, then wherein lies the impetus to innovate? Why should a corporate polluter seek to do business in a manner which does not pollute, if all it has to do is take the easy path with Congress? A few bucks, and alla-kazaam! Polluting is no longer a problem, and the corporation can continue belching and spewing right along. However, if the laws could not be influenced, if the polluter found he must change his business, or end it, what do you suppose would happen?

LOBBYING IS WHY WE ARE NOT A GREEN PLANET ALREADY.

[Deep13]

2. +1

[Eric J in MN]

3. The maximum donation to the DNC is $30,400.

If that were lowered to $100, then politicians might care about the general public.

We need to lower the amount which one can donate to a party committee.

http://www.opensecrets.org/overview/limits.php

[JimWis]

4. K&R

[AndyA]

5. I have so often thought the same things.

Americans today drive their foreign cars to Walmart to buy cheap foreign crap. Then they complain that they're losing their jobs. They just don't seem to get it. They say their foreign car was "made here in the United States." Yet they refuse to look around to see what's happening...that "made in America" car doesn't seem to be helping to keep American jobs.

Multiply this by other industries, and you soon see the problem.

I've often wondered what America would be like today if our ancestors had been so selfish that they refused to sacrifice anything themselves, always expecting someone else to do it.

Americans have become a selfish, complacent people and because of that our rights and liberties are being taken away from us. Only when something impacts us directly do we think to complain, let alone actually get involved and do something about it.

Getting rid of the lobbyist industry would be a good move, in my opinion. Not all lobbyists are bad, of course, but the ones who work for the major corporations drown out the others because they have access to seemingly endless money. Perhaps not for profits should be allowed lobbyists, but no one else. :shrug: Time and time again, I see politicians leave office to become lobbyists...now you tell me where the money really is.

Until Americans wake up and get off their butts, this will continue. I thought we were heading that direction last fall, but it seems we may have been duped by someone promising change...I hope that's not the case, but time will tell.

[Rex]

6. Outlaw corporations from lobbying Congress.

I know I kid!!! That is like TERM LIMITS, why would we go and ruin a good thing!?! If anything, they can stop the lovefest between the Military Industrial Complex and Corporate America!

K&R!

[Cleita]

7. And it also can lead to criminal behavior on the part of the clientele

of the lobbyists, the corporations.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. You get no argument from me there.

[thecrow]

9. You got that right

What's the difference between lobbyists and the people who bribed Mrs. Conyers?

[Vidar]

10. I totally agree.

[cascadiance]

11. Make that "Legal Institutionalized Bribery"

Not only is it "tolerated" as bribery, it is an active part of the system that really is almost hard to avoid in order for politicians to be a part of our government now!

That is why it is so insidious. It is very hard for someone that wants to change the system to get elected and be a part of the change, as so many others now, no matter how they might advertise themselves as "progressive" are a part of this system, and know that to fight it, might mean fighting their future in our government too, without feeling a part of a big majority that won't "revenge" itself on its dissenters.

[Flaneur]

12. I call it institutionalized corruption.

[meow2u3]

13. PAID lobbying is little more than institutionalized, legally sanctioned bribery

Especially when the corporate lobbyists promise campaign contributions to politicians who do their bidding and threaten the representatives' careers when they try to stand up to them. I have no problem with citizen lobbyists who do not dangle money in front of their representatives, but when "one person, one vote" becomes "one dollar, one vote", there's a problem here.

I propose a national referendum outlawing and criminalizing the practice of paid lobbying, effectively shutting down K Street. I know the unemployment rates will rise, but who's being unemployed is more important for the good of the country then mere statistics.

[izzybeans]

15. We can start winning when we realize Lobbying is the name of the game

and always will be. it's not just the rules that need to change with regard to money, it's how we go about organizing ourselves as well. We must be the lobby. And we must be there to compete with the monied interests.

There needs to be a self-organized "people's lobby" that mobilizes public opinion directly and lays it on the table of the legislator.

With the models of Move On, the Obama campaign, and other online mobilization efforts, the ingredients are on the table.

There are periodic attempts to resurrect the "people's lobby". They've been, far too often, some group presuming to speak on the behalf of millions. there is no reason now, with our ability to create virtual community forums, why there can't be a deliberative community designed to create grass roots policy and generate the funding necessary to deliver it with figurative force (e.g. well paid connections) into the legislative process.

This forum would have to be non-partisan and have the ability enforce rules of deliberation in order to manage conflict (similar to what we have here, though more open, and more akin to Roberts Rules of Order for online debate). People should be able to submit policy briefs and draft legislation, edit them on like-minded teams, sort of like a Wiki, and vote them up or down in mass. The winners and losers can be presented to our legislators as options "on the table" along with whatever else they are considering as public matters. That requires a huge effort and tons of cash-because this process would have to compete with the "monied" interests who are not going to go away. In other words, the people would have to hire a high powered "people's" lobby. There are organizations who do such things, but they are tied to the beltway, and are only doing the "people's work" in spirit. The People for the American Way are an example.

The question to me is how to get beyond what we are already doing now? If we kill "lobbying" we kill the only method we have of influencing our legislators beyond our periodic right to vote them in or out.

[Psychic Consortium]

16. You are correct. America has been governed by corrupt leadership.

That is going to change as we move into the 21st century.

[Raskolnik]

17. So you don't approve of environmental groups, healthcare reform advocates, or anti-war organizations

lobbying Congress?

[libertypirate]

18. It's not as though those groups lobby for profit. /nt

[Raskolnik]

21. So its the profit you object to, not the lobbying? n/t

[Go2Peace]

28. Actually, NO group should be allowed to lobby, only unpaid individuals

There would still be plenty of power in the hands of people who care, in fact more. Think about it.. strip away what we have accepted, why in the world should any company or interest group be able to hire professional lobbiests? By it's nature it takes power away from the individual.

Imagine what kind of access you and I would have in such a world? We could actually get time with our congresspeople...

[harun]

30. I like the way you framed that

So one could say the root of the problem is being able to pay someone to go lobby on your behalf, whether you are an individual or a corporation.

How could you stop someone from having a title of accountant at a company just full time lobby for that company? I think you would also have to make it illegal to lobby for your employer. Maybe say if the corporation is a person then they get one person to lobby for them and only one.

[fascisthunter]

19. exactly... an unfair advantage on influencing politicians

over the notion that each citizen has one vote.

[Raskolnik]

22. You know that there are a ton of progressive groups/organizations that lobby Congress, right? n/t

[Go2Peace]

29. you can't have it both ways.

And I would suggest that we are so used to having organizations talk for us we think that our own voices cannot have power. In fact, organizations, by lobbying, reduce the power of individuals.

So groups like the Sierra club or ACLU would still be able to inform and energize people. There would be plenty of opportunity to express mass power through individuals working together.

[blindpig]

20. Catch-22

Who is going to vote for such legislation amongst a congress of whores?

It is against their private interest to do so, they will not kill the golden goose.

Sure, there's a handful of relatively untainted, that's what ya call plausible deniability. Majority rule.

[bluesmail]

23. Democracy did die when whatever idiotic court granted

Corporations person-hood status in the late 1800's.

[fascisthunter]

24. You are the grand winner on that one

Thom Hartmann has written about it. I wish I had a link, but if you go to his sight, I'm sure he has it somewhere there. If that doesn't work, just email him.

[wroberts189]

25. We were warned by Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson..

and even Eisenhower among others.

No for-profit corporations should be allowed to lobby ... if they want to lobby they can lobby as individual citizens like the rest of us.


knr

[ThoughtCriminal]

26. Buckley v. Valeo - legalized bribery

The court ruled that spending money to influence elections is a form of constitutionally protected free speech. It has been a money game all along because we can sell candidates like soap. And the more money you have, the more your "Speech" matters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckley_v._Valeo

[sarcasmo]

27. Lobbyist should be Outlawed.