Carlin on Michael Jackson

[charlie]

This is amusing, I've never heard it before. Didn't know George felt this way. (Anybody who gets the vapors when Jackson's "kid problem" is mentioned should maybe skip this. Carlin, being Carlin, gets to it first thing.)

"Michael Jackson is the greatest entertainer who ever lived, bar none... Michael Jackson buries them all."

"Elvis was a bogus white guy... fuck Elvis."

"Sammy Davis Jr... nice try."

"Sinatra... arrogant... mean to ordinary people... fuck him."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uC8LSV-j2g
(1 minute 7 seconds)

[hlthe2b]

1. So now: sanctimonious & angry DU Mobs gather......

for a most-mortem lynching of Carlin..... (and anyone else who says anything nice about Michael Jackson).... Seems they will be quite busy for some time, but that's the "cross they bear" having been blessed with all knowing, moral perfection.... Such busy little beavers are they...











:sarcasm:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Why Did He Need To Bring Elvis Down To Elevate Michael Jackson?

The young Elvis was cool and breathtakingly handsome.

[hlthe2b]

7. He didn't.....

I think he was being hyperbolic to make his point.

We've had some phenomenal talents over time including many who will never make the superstar list...

All were flawed human beings, however (as are we all). On that we can be assured

[Medusa]

18. and he was the first Rock Star

Elvis is...Elvis. Everyone else are mere imitators.

[JackRiddler]

35. Not by a mile!

He wasn't even the first white "rock" star! (Fine, I'll accept a characterization of him as a rock-and-roll star; rock came later, and Elvis was not pure rock-and-roll, but anyway, granting that...)

[Butch350]

38. Evis style was formulated after the black soul singers before him.

Elvis music style was taken from the early black singers - cause it wasn't cool
for white folks to openly listen the black artists.

My point...Elvis career was built of the backs of black artists as the same with the Beatles
of course the beatles admitted it. (find your own f-in link to disprove my point)

[Number23]

65. To quote the genius and force that is Chuck D (Public Enemy)

"Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant shit to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain
Mother fuck him and John Wayne"

http://www.publicenemy.com/index.php?page=page5&item=10&num=33

Crude, but I think we can all take his point. :)

I don't think Elvis was a racist but there's little doubt that he built his fortune standing on the shoulders of previous and some would say far greater (black) artists. Seems like I remember him even admitting that...

[BuelahWitch]

27. If John Lennon said nice things about Michael, we'd best be on suicide watch

The haters won't be able to take the praise of TWO DU icons!

[wyldwolf]

2. Eddie Murphy had a couple of funny ones, too

A little vulgar... NSFW.. but he and Jackson were friends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQXddCgDxjk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfP7XyMDyCw

[charlie]

3. Bet I already know them

"Tito... get me a tissue." :)

[wyldwolf]

6. LOL! Yep, that's one. The follow up was Jackson confronting Murphy at a party about the joke

[BuelahWitch]

24. "Why don't you make fun of Prince & his high heel boots"?

Was that it? And then didn't two of Prince's "ladies," Shiela E. & Appolonia, come after Eddie?

[BuelahWitch]

23. That was hilarious!

And yeah, they WERE friends

Made a music video together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yoIkQFuF6g

Michael presenting an award to Eddie on the Arenio Hall Show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLe71rT03Gg

[Heidi]

4. Dave Chappelle, re: Michael Jackson (pretty graphic)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEHVR9Hj_b0

[charlie]

8. Yeeps

Funny stuff. If you need me though, I'll be waaaay over there --->

[Heidi]

9. I know.

I think Michael Jackson was a consummate entertainer, and I don't believe it was ever proven that he harmed any kids, but he did choose to be a public figure, thus opening the door to commentary on his life, so I don't find it (too) offensive. :hi:

[Karenina]

31. He did NOT CHOOSE to be a public figure.

[Heidi]

33. Oh, really? Anything he did after 18 was by his own choice.

If you'd like to argue that with the money he earned until then, he had no other choices and knew only entertainment, I'd be willing to listen.

ETA: I'm well aware, based on my own childhood experience, that healing is a process, but as much as I loved and still respect Michael Jackson (and don't believe for a moment that he ever harmed a child), he had every resource in the world to expedite his own recovery from a childhood of well-documented abuse. If a man with those resources can't do it, what hope is there for the rest of us, many of whom never had vast riches, not to mention medical insurance covering therapy and/or psychiatric care?

Do you really believe that with all those resources, Michael Jackson had absolutely no choice about whether to live his adult life as a public figure?

[Karenina]

46. He was a professional child, Heidi.

So long since programmed.

[Heidi]

50. I'm not arguing with you. I agree he was programmed and abused,

and I don't for one second believe he did the shit he was accused of doing. Twelve jurors acquitted him on ten counts. His is one of the greatest losses of my generation (which straddles Dylan to present day). Perhaps I'm just angry that he didn't use his resources to save himself. I'm as an imperfect a judge as anyone else of Michael Jackson's soul -- which I don't believe ANY of us should be judging, anyway.

[Karenina]

53. I've watched this movie SO MANY TIMES IRL.

There is nothing to do, making attempts notwithstanding. I am grateful that he and we were spared the spectacle of him collapsing on stage while untold numbers watched. Many might argue he didn't "deserve" such a merciful death, I wish peace for those so affected.

The highest of the high and the lowest of the low were embodied in his tragic figure. He attempted to "save himself" in the ways that resonated in his own brain, not anyone else's and had the means and enablers to do so.

I listened to some BBC programmes today. The moderators all took the stance: Let's talk about his contributions now, there will be plenty of airspace (oops, bandwidth) on his transgressions once the body is buried. It was quite refreshing. ;-)

[Heidi]

54. I don't disagree with you.

He left all of us a great gift, and I believe his primary transgressions were against himself.

[Karenina]

56. Danke, Heidi. BINGO.

Brought on by the circumstances into which he was born. He never had much "choice" about when to show up for rehearsal. He never had much choice about his stage dress, the lyrics he sang or a single hotel room where he could escape the soundtracks of his brothers banging groupies.

[troubledamerican]

68. Let's apply this criteria to Dubya: He was programmed & abused. Not HIS fault.

At some point, Michael Jackson is responsible for reprehensible behavior when he brought NEW children into the world and claimed parental responsibility for THEM.

Read "Bush On The Couch". Dubya's upbringing was horrible. Read about Dubya's sister's death.

Bush deserves to be hung at the gallows. I'm sure Dick Cheney & Donald Rumsfeld had horrible childhoods. SO DID I.

Still think Michael Jackson has no blame?

Read this:

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/381773/Mother-of-Michael-Jackons-children-Debbie-Rowe-confesses-he-was-not-their-father.html

[Heidi]

73. News of the World????

Page not found
Sorry, the page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is unavailable.

[Politicalboi]

51. Good old Dave

I wish he would come back and play Obama. LOL! Here's the clip of jury duty of Dave

http://www.videovat.com/videos/929/dave-chapelle-jury-duty.aspx

[Karenina]

58. Perhaps Dave has the consciousness to SAVE HIMSELF

that Michael never had any chance of developing.

[Lilith Velkor]

80. Katt Williams on MJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h1euQKJsr4

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lancer]

11. I just never really thought of MJ as a black entertainer

And it's not because he looked whiter than Sinatra by the time he kicked. And it's not because I'm a WF.

Don't know why; we're the same age (or at least I thought we were until I learned Berry Gordy shaved two years off MJ's age to make him seem cuter) so we lived through the same times.

Maybe it's because the only thing militant about MJ was his pseudo military uniforms.

One of Carlin's litmus tests is "growth as an artist." That's where the Osmonds could never touch the Jacksons.

[xfundy]

12. Yeah

White folks just can't get a break.

Dammit. And dagnabbit.

[WillyT]

48. LOL !!! - Yeah... Those Poor Downtrodden White People...

:rofl:

:banghead:

[islandmkl]

13. did you forget the 'sarcasm' smilie...and we are still lobbying for the 'bullshit' one...

the Osmonds compared to the Jacksons? yeah, the Osmonds had some groundbreaking efforts...like, first Mormon hitmakers since the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

If there wasn't a hugely successful 'family' group like the Jacksons (and don't start with the Cowsills and Partridge Family comparisons, please...they were TV 'fantasy' bands) NO PRODUCERS or RECORD LABELS would have even given the Osmonds even minimal promotion...

yeah, good old Donny Osmond...just as great as Michael Jackson...only white...

all the hits that Donny (and Marie, too) penned just escapes me for the moment....

[GReedDiamond]

52. The Cowsills were a real group, started by four brothers...

...and later joined by a fifth brother, and their sister and mother.

Here is their Wiki entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowsills
...it's actually pretty interesting.

But, yeah, the idea that The Osmonds were disadvantaged because they were "ridiculed" (because they were "white" and/or Mormon?), or that the two groups had comparable "amazing ability" is ludicrous.

[Th1onein]

14. Riiiiiiight!

Those poor white people. They've had it so rough, right?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. Yeah, especially if they're Christian!

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

15. Supposition and conjecture as substitutes for facts and valid reasoning ....

... are always the refuge of bigots and imbeciles. :shrug:

[Binka]

22. Fucking AMEN Nut!

This one lists her hobby as shoes. Maybe she should go gaze at a pair, or better yet play with them on her hands. Fucking ridiculous.

[TahitiNut]

34. (grin) Well, Imelda must be bored to sign up for DU.

:rofl:

[fishwax]

17. .

:crazy:

[Cali_Democrat]

19. Oh those privileged black people.....

They just don't know how easy they have it!!!

:wtf:

[DaveinJapan]

20. This is a joke post, right?

Please tell me you're not serious. I really don't want to have to bust out the rotfl smiley if I don't have to.

[Binka]

26. Bust It Out Dave

Shoes as a hobby? A quick search reveals much more erudite thinking from "shoe girl." Fuck all. As my great Dad would say "you have got to be shittin me."

[DaveinJapan]

67. k.

:spray:



:D





:rofl:










:yoiks:

[BuelahWitch]

25. The Osmonds were ridiculed b/c they wore their religion on their sleeve

They would change the lyrics of pop songs to fit their morals.
While both the Jacksons and the Osmonds were talented musicians (yes, they played instruments as well as sang), and were known as wholesome in their time, the Osmonds pushed the wholesomeness too far and made a parody of themselves. The Jacksons did not.
Edited to add: I was a big Osmond fan for many years, so I'm not bashing them. I'm just telling it the way it was.

[Heidi]

45. And because they were safe caricatures of US.

The Osmonds didn't break out of anything, like the Jacksons broke out of Gary, Indiana. The Osmonds represented what was "safe" and expected/respected for/by many Americans of my generation: white, moral, perfect teeth, perfectly slim, Vitamin D teens. Times SEVEN. And you're absolutely right: at some point, the Osmonds KNEW they were caricatures of themselves and they actively marketed their squeaky-clean brand, while many of us in the lower half of the country were feeling okay about cute-little-Michael but still decidedly threatened by big, black, Jackie Jackson.

By the way, thanks for having through through all of this. It seems few have.

:yourock:

[RagAss]

29. Oh......... the hatred.

[Batgirl]

36. If only we lived in a just Universe, such Osmond classics as "Where Does an Angel Go When She Cries"

would have occupied their rightful place alongside "Thriller", in heavy rotation on MTV in the 80s.

How tragic that the Osmonds could never transcend the color barrier at that time when MTV and Top 40 radio seldom aired the work of so many sadly overlooked White artists.

[RagAss]

44. LOL !

[Heidi]

39. Charlie Chaplin's legacy would beg to disagree.

Read more and with a discerning mind. It'll do ya good.

[JVS]

40. Wrong. While the Jackson 5 can be compared with the Osmonds, Michael's solo work was a step up.

[RagAss]

42. This post belongs on the wall of the Museum of Natural Cretins !

[HughMoran]

47. Would you mind clarifying your remarks...

Because if you weren't joking, you're a racist.

[JVS]

49. Geraldine Ferraro here at DU?

:wow:

[Number23]

66. LOL!

Damn! Now I REALLY wish I had seen that post before it was deleted!!

Geraldine Ferraro here at DU?

:rofl:

[Lilyeye]

71. I was thinking the same after seeing all the replies.

I'm curious now lol.

[charlie]

72. In short

If Jacko was as weird as he was and white, he wouldn't have made it, because white talent can't catch a break. Case in point, the Osmonds were as good as the Jacksons and they were treated like a joke.

It was the typical angry white male stuff you'd see at certain other sites. Oddly, it wasn't from a disruptor who signed up recently.

[Lilyeye]

79. Thanks for letting me know.

:rofl:@ at the Osmonds being as good as the Jacksons. Yeah it does sound like your typical "white males are being discrimination" against crap if someone is actually wondering why the Osmonds weren't bigger than the Jacksons.

[fishwax]

21. I don't think the "fuck those kids" is Carlin's best moment

and it's ironic that in the same rant he knocks Sinatra for being mean to ordinary people :rofl:

But a good rant, aside from that ...

[JVS]

41. Wanna start 132 threads about George Carlin being a child molestation apologist?

:rofl: The flamewars would be fun.

[fishwax]

59. lol, that would be epic

but after my Carlin-on-Obama thread blew up last summer, I'm a little gun shy on Carlin threads :rofl:

[JVS]

62. If not you, who?

[NYC Liberal]

76. I just wonder how many flamewars Carlin himself would have gotten into

if he was a member here!

All he'd have to do is post some of his bits as "real" posts here and ....

[JVS]

78. Banned as a disruptor

[jberryhill]

70. "...and their greedy parents"

It sounds as if Carlin is expressing skepticism about the accusations being a money grab which, after all was said and done, seems accurate IMHO.

[fishwax]

74. in part, yes, but only in part

he says he doesn't care whether Jackson did it or not, and the "fuck those kids" follows right after that, so it isn't all skepticism, though skepticism is definitely part of it.

[KG]

28. Fuck Carlin!

wait, what? :P

[Butch350]

32. I don't think you were Carlins type. SORRY!

[UndertheOcean]

30. Thank you Carlin ! for not being mediocre!

Mediocrity is the greatest sin of all.

[JVS]

43. I dunno. I've met a lot of mediocre people and I'm happy I didn't get molested by MJ instead.

Score one for the mediocre folks out there!

[greguganus]

55. But mediocre molesters can't pay out the big bucks! n/t

[JackRiddler]

37. The insights on MJ relative to the other artists he mentions are spot-on...

I wish he wouldn't make a joke of child molesting, however.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. He's not

The hysterical people he is taking to task are in fact making a joke of it. They do not understand that, but they are.

[EFerrari]

61. He's not. That's hyperbole, often used in comedy to make point

and often to diffuse a forbidden topic, right?

[EFerrari]

60. Man, charlie, I miss Carlin this weekend.

[charlie]

63. I'm telling ya

In a way many of MJ's fans are probably discovering for themselves, I was chagrined to realize how much I took Carlin for granted in his later years.

The man didn't do ironic distance, he really was a fish out of water. His near-paranoid instincts so closely paralleled my own, he didn't just make me laugh, he made me gleeful. A word or two from Carlin through this high drama silliness would've been good... for everybody.

[EFerrari]

64. I'm so down with that.

Like biting into a good steak. Biting. lol

[Ex Lurker]

69. that doesn't sound like George Carlin's voice n/t

[Echo In Light]

75. His name carried a lot of weight, hence some tried to pass off counterfeits as a means of...

...aligning Carlin's credibility as a no-bullshit guy to whatever willy-nilly view they're trying to seed the public mind with. His website used to offer updates on the various nonsense that quacks would try to pass off as being attributable to him, most notably the "Bad American" email bit.

While Carlin was a self-dubbed 'bad American,' it wasn't for the bullshit, pussy reasons put forth in that particular piece.

I don't know if this is legit or not as I can't listen to it at work.

[redqueen]

77. Heh.

:)