Should people on the U.S. terrorist watch list be allowed to buy guns?

[onehandle]

This is the current question on CNN.com. I wonder how DU will shake out on this?

[zanne]

1. Are you #$^#@$%$# kidding me? nt

[onehandle]

3. It's the current question on cnn.com

I'm wondering how DUers will shake out.

[beevul]

31. This man should have been denied the ability to purchase a firearm...

Because he was denied a flight due to the "watch list...right zanne?



:rofl:

[bigwillq]

2. CNN poll (nt)

[TahitiNut]

4. What's the "due process" involved in placing a name on the terrorist watch list??

:eyes:

[Uzybone]

5. my question as well

and I'm a hardcore gun control person. No reason they should be denied access to their constitutional rights.

[spanone]

6. this poll and it's replies must be a joke.......you've really got to be kidding..

[Towlie]

26. Spanone, nobody has any way to tell what your position on this issue is.

Your post above tells us essentially nothing, except that you don't communicate very well.

[armyowalgreens]

7. I'm assuming all you have to do to get on the terrorist watch list

is say you don't like the terrorist watch list.

[BlooInBloo]

8. hahaha! Don't want black folks to have guns? Just put them on the watch list! Done, and done!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Gawd the idiotic ideas people come up with.

[Blue-Jay]

9. No vote. The watch list is bullshit and so is this poll.

[me b zola]

20. +1

:thumbsup:

[Selatius]

10. How does one get on the terrorist watch list? It's an important question to ask.

If you are simply an anti-war protester and ended up on the list because you were an organizer of one of the anti-war events, would that put you on the list? If you were somebody like Dr. Martin Luther King, would you be put on the list? If they simply put people on the list with whom they disagree, then it shouldn't prevent the person in question from purchasing a handgun, unless the person had a prior felony conviction.

[TahitiNut]

15. Indeed. Furthermore, how does one get a name identical to someone on the watch list?

After all, it's not like they're accurate in identifying the SINGLE individual having been targeted.

[timeforpeace]

11. They probably already have all the guns they need. How did they get on the list?

[havocmom]

38. Some by being vocal against bush

Some by being famous Senator

Now, I did read about a 15 month old boy who turned up on the list. Maybe he shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun, but not for the watch list reason.

[billyoc]

12. Yes, of course.

[Egalitariat]

13. I say yes. If they're really terrorists, you can't stop them from getting guns

If they aren't terrorists, then all you've done is infringed on their 2nd amendment rights.

[Ikonoklast]

16. Who says they are terrorists? You? Some guy in a cubicle?

If I am denied due process, I am not going to relinquish any of my rights without a fight.

How about I infringe on your 1st amendment rights, just because one of your neighbors is pissed at you and turned you in?

No free speech for you, because your dog pissed in her yard.

You either support ALL of the Constitution, or none of it. NO pick and choose.

[zanne]

34. This just proves to me that you gun nuts are really blind to reality.

You automatically side with the right to bear arms, no matter what. You don't even think about it. It's making you sick.

[havocmom]

39. gun nuts? as opposed to what? Control freaks who don't deal with reality?

Fact: the watch list has been shown to be completely bogus time and again. Just ask Senator Ted Kennedy.

No due process involved with that watch list. Not much evidence that due diligence was involved for much of it.

Sorry, but one doesn't have to be nuts about guns to be enamored of civil rights and law based on the Constitution.

If the world is so scary to you that denial of due process looks good, you, too, may qualify for being called 'gun nuts' cuz it seems the very idea of guns makes you lose sight of realities.

[Ikonoklast]

43. If you think I am a 'gun nut', you are sadly mistaken.

I support the Constitution, even the parts I find distasteful, because it is the basis of our Republic, and the cornerstone of Democracy.

If you want to curtail the rights of others, you must be willing to curtail your own. I am unwilling to do so for some perceived notion of 'safety'.

It is the very same argument used by Republicans against laws they don't like. They are all for Free Speech as grand ideal, until someone that they disagree with exercises that very same right.

Then they are all for censorship.

[rucky]

27. If they're really terrorists, why haven't they been convicted?

and just on a "watchlist"

[MichaelHarris]

14. being

on a list doesn't make you guilty of any crime. The list is no different that Joe McCarty's "list." I voted yes, you should be able to buy guns and you shouldn't be on any list unless convicted of a crime.

[iamtechus]

17. Has anyone on the TWL ever committed a gun crime? nt

[armyowalgreens]

18. On the CNN poll: 89% oppose them be allowed to purchase firearms.

[zanne]

36. Yes, but that poll was comprised of normal people. nt

[havocmom]

40. of FAUX watching sheep

Ever notice how most TVs in airports are set to FOX?

[DBoon]

19. Since when does a free society have "watch lists"?

Sometimes I wonder who really won the Cold War.

[baldguy]

21. Please note: The FBI's Terrorist Watch List is *NOT* the same as the TSA's No-fly List.

The Terrorist Watch list has people who are actually suspected of being terrorists, or suspected of supporting terrorists by the FBI. It is intended to try to keep track of people like Timothy McVeigh and Mohamed Atta. There are published criteria for getting on this list, and the FBI has procedures in place for a person so listed to get off this list.

The No-fly List has people who may be wearing the wrong t-shirt, or reading the wrong book, or may actually know what the Constitution says all of which is considered "suspect" by the TSA. It is intended to harass people like Ted Kennedy, John Lewis, Nelson Mandela and Denny Crane. The criteria for getting on this list is secret, as are the procedures - if any - for getting off.

[Statistical]

25. Please provide the specific procedures for getting on and off the list.

Along with method I would use to check if I am on the list along with the oversight body that ensure wrong people don't go on the list.

[baldguy]

29. On the FBI website

FAQs
http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/counterrorism/faqs.htm

Can I find out if I am in the TSDB?

The TSC cannot reveal whether a particular person is in the TSDB. The TSDB remains an effective tool in the government’s counterterrorism efforts because its contents are not disclosed. If TSC revealed who was in the TSDB, terrorist organizations would be able to circumvent the purpose of the terrorist watchlist by determining in advance which of their members are likely to be questioned or detained.

Homeland Security Presidential Directive/Hspd-6
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/hspd-6.html

Redress Procedures
http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/counterrorism/redress.htm

The Department of Homeland Security Traveler Redress Inquiry Program (DHS TRIP) provides a way for travelers to express concern when they believe they have been incorrectly delayed, denied boarding, identified for additional screening, or have otherwise experienced difficulties when traveling or seeking entry into the country. DHS TRIP allows travelers to submit a redress inquiry in a single request via a secure website. DHS TRIP works with the Department's component agencies, such as U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Transportation Security Administration, and other Government agencies including the Department of State and the TSC, as appropriate, to make an accurate determination about any traveler who has sought redress.

Please see the DHS TRIP website to review frequently asked questions or file a request for redress related to your travel screening.

and the orwellian DHS website:
http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/programs/gc_1169673653081.shtm

Step 1: Should I Use DHS TRIP?

* When Should You Use DHS TRIP?
* When DHS TRIP Does Not Apply
* More About Screening and Watch Lists
* Foreign Students and Exchange Visitors

When Should You Use DHS TRIP?

DHS TRIP can help travelers work to resolve travel-related issues, when

* You feel that you were discriminated against by an officer of the Federal government OR an officer of the Department of Homeland Security based on race, disability, religion, gender, ethnicity or national origin
* You believe the U.S. Government’s record of your personal information is inaccurate or has been misused
* You believe you were unfairly detained during your travel experience or unfairly denied entry into the United States
* You were not able to print a boarding pass from an airline ticketing kiosk or from the Internet as a result of some type action taken by Homeland Security
* You were denied or delayed boarding
* A ticket agent “called someone” before handing you a boarding pass
* You were told
o your fingerprints were incorrect or of poor quality.
o your photo did not match the travel document
o your personal information was incomplete or inaccurate
o you are on the “No Fly List”
* You want to
o Amend a traveler record because of an overstay as a result of not submitting the required I-94 when exiting the U.S
o Ensure your biometric record created in US-VISIT is removed from DHS systems.

[benEzra]

33. You're right, it's just one of several Bushco secret blacklists.

That changes the nature of this BS, how?

[rustydog]

22. Infants are on the terrorist watch list

[havocmom]

42. Well, I do sort favor banning infants from buying guns

But not because they turn up on some silly list

[Statistical]

23. There are 3 million (MILLION) people on terror watch list.

Nobody can even say what the process is that puts you on there.
No citizen can even check to see if they are on there.

We are going to deny a civil right based on a secret list the govt compiles that nobody knows how you get on or off?

Really?

This is even a question?

[bigwillq]

24. When are we going to get rid of the watch list?

That's an even better question.

[Towlie]

28. Please support my thread criticizing the position of Ed Schultz on this issue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5901211

[demosincebirth]

30. Sure, Why not?

[Irreverend IX]

32. Yes. The terror watchlist is totalitarian horseshit. nt

[zanne]

35. The issue is about "terrorists"; not people on the watch list. nt

[X_Digger]

41. "The issue is about "terrorists"; not people on the watch list."

??? Your poll question is- "Should people on the U.S. terrorist watch list be allowed to buy guns?"

Not about actual terrorists, just those on a secret list.

(I voted yes.)

[aikoaiko]

37. I'd need to know a lot more about how the list is constructed and due process involved.

Does anyone have any documentation on how the list is created, under what rules, what safe guards exist, what recourse do people have, what level of evidence is required, etc?

Can I even find out if I am on the list?