Canadian gives facts about "Canadians flood into the U.S. for medical care" lie

[Lydia Leftcoast]

One of the New York Times' many recent articles and opinion columns about health care elicited 16 pages of comments.

One of the most informative was by a Canadian responding to a right-wing poster who talked about "all the Canadians" who "opt to come" to the US for health care:


369. John #362: Your premise, often repeated by the lobby against single payer, is wrong. We do not come south for care and I doubt it would be any better that what we receive. The American Medical Student Assoc .tracked this down a while ago and found that exactly 20 Canadian in 2006 sought treatment or a procedure not recognized in their jurisdiction. There are upwards of 750,000 Canadian in the US at any one time, businessmne, vacationers or those fleeing winter, mostly retirees. The demographics demand that some of them will need to see a doctor or continue with therapy started at home, but if they really get sick, they head for home. For this we buy “outside Canada” insurance from private carriers, I always did when business took me stateside even for a day or two, I was scared to get sick,not by reason of care but the costs! Along the border the towns on the American side are much larger having facilities suited for a metropolitan area. The small town of Ft. Erie, Ontario would use Buffalo across the rver instead of transporting the patient to Toronto in emergencies ,and that is fully paid for by the Ontario Health Plan. In fact the Buffalo hospitals include ALL the smaller towns around them as part of their business plan. Recently a tanker blew up at the border and the closest major burn unit was 3 km away in Buffalo vs. 100 km Toronto, they went to Buffalo. I understand that in upsate Vermonters will go to Montreal, same reason. Having said that there are many instances where Quebec firefighters respond to calls in New York State or Vermont because of the facilities on the Canadian, this does not mean there is a shortage of firefighter in the US. The mantra is quality, timely care based soley on need and not the ability to pay,regardless of the jurisdiction.

http://theconversation.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/health-care-follies/?ref=opinion&apage=15#comments

[Spazito]

1. The comment is absolutely correct...

I, too, buy extra insurance when I cross the border due to the exorbitant cost of care there. VERY FEW Canadians cross the border and those are for the reasons stated in the post you used.

[AlphaCentauri]

2. My most right wing friend who used to live in Canada

would agree with the poster, he is a register republicans but recognized that the US needs a health care system similar to Canada's

[Lydia Leftcoast]

4. Yes, nothing teaches like experience

Years ago, Business Week, of all magazines, carried an article by a Republican businessman who developed cancer while on overseas assignment for his company in Paris. He was treated through the French medical system and reported receiving state of the art care, as well as careful attention from the doctors and nurses. After his cancer was in remission, he received a bill in the mail for the equivalent of $5. He couldn't read bureaucratic French well enough to figure out what it was for, but as he said, "It seemed like a bargain, whatever it was, so I just paid it."

I cited another example of Americans encountering European health care back in 2004, when I gave a link to an article about a couple who had a baby in Norway. Unfortunately, the magazine that I linked to went out of business, and the article is no longer online, but my DU post gives a sample:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x43244

[eridani]

8. There is now a website up for Republicans for single payer

http://republicansforsinglepayer.com/?p=1

At least we have some representation in our party--they have none.

[AlphaCentauri]

14. They probably are just a small minority

don't know what is that keep them in the GOP. They must be small business owners who see a chance to have their employees cover and healthy.

[Oregone]

3. Canadians wont so much as spend an hour in the US without solid travel insurance

:)

[YewNork]

11. When I worked in Canada, one of the benefits my employer provided was "out of country" health ins.

It provided the coverage to protect you if you got sick and needed to see a doctor outside of Canada.
Larger employers provided it as a benefit because it was pretty affordable, and if your employer didn't
you made sure that you bought it yourself.

[krispos42]

5. Brilliant!

Excellent.


So at any time, 2.7% of Canada's population is in the US.


Excellent point, indeed!

[Vinca]

6. When the Canadian healthcare system opts to send a patient

to the U.S. for a treatment, the Canadian healthcare system is footing the bill, not the patient. Republicans neglect to mention that.

[Canuckistanian]

7. Yup.

In my whole life (just turned 1/2 a century :(), I've never heard of anyone travelling to the States unless they had some very rare disease or condition that Canadian hospitals didn't treat.

And then there are the jetsetters (Conrad Black comes to mind) that get their healthcare in the best "boutique" hospitals in the US because they can AFFORD it.

But nobody NEEDS to go to America to get basic health care. Why should we?

[MindPilot]

9. Teh illegals are here for our great free healthcare too.

In wingerworld a Mexican who slips across the border without the blessing of la migra is eligible to receive services and benefits an American citizen could only dream of. It's why California is broke. :eyes:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. It's not so much that they have "free" healthcare by policy

It's that ER's can't turn anyone away and that illegal immigrants are untraceable for collections. By that definition, American homeless people get "free" health care, too. By the way and by law, illegal immigrants are not eligible for food stamps, SSI, or anything else that you actually have to apply for through an office.

In countries with national health care, there are definite policies about who is eligible. In Japan, you're not eligible unless you're either a citizen or legal resident. If not, you pay full price. In the UK, people who are not legal residents of the UK or a country that has a reciprocal relationship with the UK get true emergency care (stabilization after a heart attack, setting broken bones, etc.) but not routine care (sore throat) or follow-up care (physical therapy). I'm not sure what the rule is in Canada.

[YewNork]

28. In Canada the rules are...

that the only people who must be provided with health coverage are Canadian citizen who reside in Canada and legal permanent residents.
When you enroll in your province's health insurance plan you are normally required to bring proof that of citizenship, immigration status,
and residency in that province.

Some provinces also cover (or they used to cover) people who are in Canada on student visas or work permits. However, this coverage is
not guaranteed by the Canada Health Act, so not all provinces provide these people with coverage.

Visitors to Canada, including Canadian citizens who live abroad, and illegal aliens are not covered under the provincial health insurance
plans and would be required to pay for treatment. The amount charged would be the same as what the doctors would bill the province's
insurance plan.

In most provinces, Canadians who move back to Canada from abroad, and new permanent residents are not covered until the remainder
of the month in which they arrived has passed, plus two more months.

[YewNork]

10. How do they think these Canadians could afford to come here?

If it's so financially impossible for most Americans to afford medical treatment without insurance, then the people who claim that Canadians "stream" across
the border to be treated must think that the Canadians are very rich, despite the high taxes that these same opponents say must be paid to support their
insurance systems. Otherwise, how do they think that Canadians can afford to come to the US to be treated, especially with their dollar being worth 20-30%
less than the US dollar.

Yes, some Canadians do choose to come to the US and to pay for it. And others are actually sent by their doctors to US hospitals because they're geographically
closer or have quicker availability. And when their doctors send them, the costs are paid for - 100%. No deductibles, no co-pays. I don't view that as a failure of their system.

And still, millions of Canadians are satisfactorily treated in Canada every year, and they live with the peace of mind that they'll never lose their health insurance
because of the status of their employment or their ability to pay for the insurance.

[XOKCowboy]

19. One correction. The Looie is worth MORE than the USD...

I was in Toronto last week. I converted $100 USD into Canadian and got back a little under 95 Canadian. Thanks GWB!

[SidDithers]

21. If that's true, you got ripped off

Currently, 1 $CDN = ~0.88 $US

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CADUSD=X

Sid

[XOKCowboy]

23. Whoops... Fees

I forgot the cash conversion fees. Still when I was there in 2003 the exchange rate was about $1.65. In 2005 it was still around $1.35. Quite a bargain. Now not so much.

[SidDithers]

24. The loonie actully hit $1.10 agains the USD about a year ago...

when oil was at $140 / barrel. But you're right, Americans who are used to getting a big discount in Canada haven't been getting it lately. :hi:

Sid

[YewNork]

26. That was a period of just a few months. And the Canadian government didn't like it.

Because it made their goods cost more abroad.

[YewNork]

25. For years, except for a few months in 2008, the CDN$ has been worth less than the US$

[jazzjunkysue]

13. A friend of mine is surviving breast cancer in Kingston, Canada. She has no complaints.

And at least her family won't risk going broke to fund her care. She may be ill, but she knows her husband and kids will be able to carry on. Isn't that what a terminally ill person really wants?

"Just tell me this won't make my kids homeless and cost them their schools and friends. Tell me everything else will remain the same when I'm gone so they'll have other means of security."

I mean, that's "care."

[roamer65]

15. Here is the true solution...a US-Canada wide single payor system.

It should be setup just like Canadian medicare and cover everyone in the USA and Canada.

[SidDithers]

17. No thanks....nt

Sid

[ThomWV]

20. Why, so our Congress can fuck up their system too?

As the man said yesterday, all we've got out of this for certain is manditory insurance for everyone and a new round of "tort reform". Our Congress in action.

[SidDithers]

22. Exactly...

no way would I want fucknuts like Inohofe or Brownback having any say in my health care.

Sid

[Canuckistanian]

27. No. I don't want Republicans NEAR my health care, please.

It's bad enough I have to read about them here.

[elehhhhna]

16. I'd love to know what rates Ont. has negotiated with Buffalo hospitals.

THAT could be quite revealing.

[Bozita]

18. This is a most informative, timely thread. My thanks to all participants.