Abercrombie and Fitch is pure evil (in case you didn't know that already)

[Merryweather]

How any company can get away with this is unbelievable. :grr:

A girl was told to work in the storeroom of A&F and had her self-esteem given a good kicking because she has a prosthetic arm. Apparently, it doesn't fit in with their 'look policy'. As we all know, anyone who's not white, stick-thin, and all-American doesn't fit their so-called look. Now we can add handicapped to that list.

http://jezebel.com/5289492/abercrombie-banishes-girl-wi...

I can't believe they even have a frickin' handbook telling employees what they can and cannot look like. Surely they're breaking some law somewhere? If not, who in their right mind would want to work for a company like that?

A&F have been sued in the past for discrimination - but the problem is that all the cases ended up being settled out of court. People allowed themselves to be bought off. The girl in this case, Riam Dean, is also suing, and I hope she does take it to court and sues their asses off. Maybe getting taken to the cleaners will make these assholes get the message that discrimination of any kind is completely unacceptable.

[YOY]

1. But just look at this picture...clearly the girl is not fashionable or attractive!

:sarcasm:



For a nice sum of A&F google the Mad TV takes on them. Granted they make them appear to be narcissistic non-effeminate rude little bisexuals (the kind that will sleep with anything that cinches with their style and level of attractiveness)...but it is funny.

[imdjh]

7. That was funny. nt

[YOY]

16. And furthermore...yowsa! if I was young and single.

n.t.

[madrchsod]

2. a&f clothes are cheap and overpriced....

of course their customers are so vain they do`t know they are being ripped off.

this young lady is better looking than most of the a&f employees i`ve seen.

[Bucky]

3. I've never really noticed Abercrombie before. They're like a bleached out Benetton.

After much surfing, I finally found me some Ab&Fitch black people. Damn, that was hard work.

no, the next one



Okay, now everyone go put your shirts back on.

[imdjh]

10. Been around forever

When I was a kid there was this one store that had a front show window with really nice stuff, Dunhill and Abercrombie stuff, really high quality stuff. I used to love to go in there just for the smell and touch of the place.

[NashVegas]

15. More Like 'Benetton For the Over-privileged'

It used to be just there for the Brooks Brothers crowd, but in recent years they've tried to hip up.

[Stevenmarc]

4. Abercrombie and Fitch has gone downhill since Limited Brands bought it

I remember the old store on Madison Ave where you could buy a pair of chinos and a canoe and the salespeople didn't have to be Ford Models

[imdjh]

5. Stupid, and yes people should get fired for this.

Looking at her picture, I'd say that she doesn't have "the look" and her arm has nothing to do with that, but clearly her arm was the issue, which is why the "look team" should get fired. Obviously, a local manager decided to hire this person and the "look team" should have known that to humiliate her and banish her to the back was not only wrong but actionable.

I fully support AF's right to have a look. This is fashion merchandising. I was shocked to read that there was some problem with them requiring or pressuring employees to wear their clothes, I felt certain that Saks and others required it.

If I were an AF manager and Riam Dean applied, I'd say, "Your hair and make-up need to be updated to our look (and show her a picture of my expectations). If you are willing to get and maintain these standards then you are hired." Her missing arm wouldn't be a factor unless it rendered her unable to do routine tasks.

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. I'm shocked that they hired her in the first place

[Merryweather]

8. That's what I thought

As awful as their stupid handbook and 'look' rules are, why hire someone who doesn't conform to them just to kick her around when it becomes a problem? This girl would have been spared the humiliation of having her appearance knocked, and her life must be hard enough as it is with only one working arm.

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. They simply could have said they weren't going to hire her because she isn't pretty enough

[tammywammy]

20. Me too n/t

[That Is Quite Enough]

9. I feel so weird that I'm wearing some of their clothes while reading this.

Feel sorry for that poor girl.

[imdjh]

11. Would you feel bad driving your car because some asshole at Ford did something wrong?

[That Is Quite Enough]

12. Nah, not really.

Point taken, I suppose.

[Blue_Tires]

13. hell, i've know they and almost all of their ilk were evil back in the 90s

check out the track records of some of these faux high profile shopping mall clothing stores, and you'll see a long history of them sticking to a 'certain' kind of look and style

[imdjh]

17. Why is it evil to have a brand and a look? Seriously.

When I go into Hot Topic, I don't see Sally Sorority working there- everyone has the Hot Topic look, ie more or less goth/emo/tatoos/piercings/1980's hair band hair or the alternate acceptable styles ( ie Suburban Reggae) .

When I go into Bamboo Shit Company, the employees all look malnourished, washed out, and as faded as their jeans.

When I go to Gold's Gym the employees look like they work out.

The leaders at Weight Watchers cannot exceed their agreed upon maximum weight or they will lose their meeting.

[NeedleCast]

18. It's not evil to have a brand or look

However, it is wrong to discriminate.

[Blue_Tires]

19. i was referring more to monochromatic advertising and

crappy service, including but not limited to racial profiling in stores (back in the 90s, it seemed like there was a major story every couple of weeks about bad treatment in the stores -- I would just stay out of them altogether)...

also in the mid-90s as young black americans began to co-opt the styles, there was also a controversial interview with one of the CEOs (Timberland? Tommy Hilfiger maybe?) where he said in so many words that blacks were not the "ideal" customers to be wearing his label...

[tammywammy]

21. You're thinking Hilfiger and he never said it

http://www.snopes.com/racial/business/hilfiger.asp

[Blue_Tires]

22. ok.... memory can mix fact and myth sometimes....

but the profiling stories are true...

[tammywammy]

24. Oh, I know there's profiling

That we agree no, I just hate seeing internet falsehoods keep spreading. :)

I shopped at A&F once back in the late 90s when I was in high school. I had plenty of money, but apparently my shirt and jeans weren't "in" enough and I was snubbed by the sales staff. Fine, I never went back, and I proceeded to blow a few hundred at Express instead that day. I was the A&F "look" as well, white, size 0....it must have been cause I have red hair and not blond. It's overpriced crap anyways. They wanted like $80 for a pair of jean shorts!

[imdjh]

26. And that is precisely what is supposed to happen- vote with your feet and your wallet.

My favorite is getting treated like crap at the health food store because I am overweight. Or is it because I am old? Or is it because I don't have a ponytail and a cool t-shirt? Either way, if they weren't the only place that sells no-salt tortilla chips I would never go there. By and large they are adolescent assholes and psychedelic relics.

[tammywammy]

27. Yep, I agree

And I've never been back, why would I shop somewhere where I'm not treated right? :crazy:

[imdjh]

25. That's a pretty complex set of issues to condense to a singular statement.

I wear baggy clothes, not hanging off my ass baggy, Babu the genii baggy. I get followed by Walmart security on a regular basis. I get ignored in some high end stores. I get treated like a king in baggy clothing stores (aka Big and Tall). Electronics stores is a roll of the dice, but they practically fawn at the Apple store, presumably because fifty year old men don't come in at Christmas time to shoot the breeze. So apparently I fit the profile of a shoplifter at Walmart, but not at Nordstrom.

Sometimes what people perceive is happening and what is actually happening are two different things. No black customer who is a regular buyer at Nordstrom would be offended by a Nordstrom employee racing to her side and offering assistance. It's what they do. But we have read that some black people feel that helpful store staff are actually following them around and watching them as potential shoplifters. So their reports of profiling would not reflect a reality, merely a perception. Moreover, since one group cannot possibly experience what another group experiences, I can't say that black people aren't often treated badly in stores simply for being black, but I can wonder if those complaining have ever truly been able to assess their treatment in light of others. For example a black person complaining that Asian storekeepers watch him like a hawk when he is in one of their stores, does he notice if that same storekeeper is watching everyone like a hawk or it he simply focussed on what he thinks is happening to him?

[Blue_Tires]

31. if it's happing too many times in too many places to be written off as coincidence

or simple misinterpretation of employee actions, then it is a problem...

and sometimes the store security can go WAY over the top (see the 1995 Eddie Bauer incident in Maryland for just one example)

[imdjh]

32. "The jury ruled that the guard did not racially single out the youths"

In 1995, a jury awarded three African American teens $1 million because a security guard at an Eddie Bauer warehouse sale detained them after falsely accusing one of them of stealing the shirt he was wearing--which he had actually purchased at the sale the day before. Although the jury ruled that the guard did not racially single out the youths, Eddie Bauer got a lot of bad publicity over the alleged discrimination.

Indeed, given the location of the store, it would be absurd to think that this store's clientele would be anything other than majority black.

How about something more recent- the case where the troop of young black males brazenly robs upscale stores in Washington DC walking out with thousands of dollars worth of merchandise? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlwM_P_7iRc It would not be surprising for such stores to keep their door locked and use a doorbell like jewelry stores already do. In a world where perceptions often override reason, should they be charged with discrimination if they don't want to admit 9 young black males in a group after what they have experienced? Should these stores not have a right to protect themselves?

If someone offends you, as an individual, you don't do business with that person. If they offend you as a group, you organize to not do business with them. You don't need proof or the force of law to do this- you are free to assume what you like. But if you do use the force of law, and you use it to harm someone for trying to protect his property then in my opinion what you are doing is unjust.

The idiocy of refusing or discouraging business based on race is a thing of the past. Businesses as a rule effect policy on their experience, not their prejudice.

[Blue_Tires]

34. to answer your questions

In a world where perceptions often override reason, should they be charged with discrimination if they don't want to admit 9 young black males in a group after what they have experienced?

Of course...


Should these stores not have a right to protect themselves?

Not at the cost of singling out an entire group...

[imdjh]

23. Is there a giant bullshit machine someplace, cranking this stuff out and reviving every ten years?

I am amazed at what passes for "common knowledge" most of which defies common sense.

[Blue_Tires]

30. yeah, you'd be surprised

Mother Jones did a story a couple years ago on some well-connected GOP nutbar who writes the smear e-mails and gives them to the right people for distribution...it is a highly effective system...

and like all good urban legends, it is plausible enough and gets in your head and you cannot remember where...did i read it in a book? see it on the news? did a friend tell me in passing?

[mtnester]

28. Because Les is obsessed with "appearances"

so much so, he married a WOMAN

Yeah, I have been to his house

Yeah, I have spoken to him

Yeah, his wife is nice (and she really is, however nice you can be by agreeing to a sham marriage)

Yeah they have some (lab) children

Yeah, I am sure they have a double secret prenupt with very specific terms unusual to most marriages

Yes, he has a boyfriend(s) (thank GOD not my son, but he regularly hangs out WITH some of his boyfriends through the years)

You don't work for the Crombie unless you look young..you will NEVER see a 40 something in the retail stores..they get to work VS, or in his household staff or real back office stuff...nor will you see anyone not really attractive...this has been a known given for more than a decade

sigh

[imdjh]

29. Did anyone notice that Riam is a LAW STUDENT? Does it change our collective perception?

Might we now suspect that like some other law students, Riam has decided to cut her teeth on a personal crusade?

I live next door to a law school, and I wouldn't rent to a law student if he paid double.

[Ignis]

33. You've got to hand it to A&F...

Just when you think they can't get any worse, they pull a stunt like this.

[kimmylavin]

35. Anorexic Bitch strikes again...

Charming folks.

(Edit to add: That is - and has always been - my name for A&F!)

[JuniperLea]

36. One word: Hooters

Apparently it is ok to tell people how they must look in order to work in certain establishments.

[imdjh]

37. Of course it is. Really.

Think about it.

Strip clubs hire dancers who they think will appeal to their customers. Sometimes that doesn't say much for their customers, but that is a matter of taste.

Move producers aren't going to cast Queen Latifah as the Grand Duchess Anastasia in the tenth remake, and they aren't going to cast Brad Pitt as Shaka Zulu unless Mel Brooks is producing.

A person with severe acne will not be hired at Georgette Klinger.

In some businesses, that which is presumed to be undesirable is actually known to work. Overweight people make good sales people for certain kinds of products, because for some reason people open up to overweight people and trust them. I think this is because most people don't view overweight people sexually. If someone is nonsexual, then he is more trustworthy to many people.