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Locut0s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-16-09 01:01 PM
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Traveling in China 2
So as you know I'm traveling in China at the moment, unfortunately with my parents but it's better than not most of the time. Anyway I posted a running cometary / list of thoughts a few days back here:

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5825101

Just thought I'd add a few more. Oh and the primer is that I lived here for about 3 1/2 years when I was a toddler and I speak enough of the language to get around.

Please ask questions!

-Currently just got into Guilin after a torturous train trip. About 30 hours on the train with a 4 hours transfer stop in between. We had hard bunks on the train but they were not in their own rooms, 6 to a "cubicle". Fairly cramped but you get used to it after a while. Thankfully the trains were air conditioned as it's 30 deg C out with 100% humidity. Using the squat toilets on the train wasn't the most fun what with the overpowering smell of urine, dirty floors and what not. And of course like every other public washroom in Asia, no toilet paper or soap. If you come traveling anywhere in Asia plan on bringing your own soap and toilet paper with you (this isn't just in china). It was interesting to see the train personnel walking up and down the isles hawking merchandise like toys, bill counterfeit detectors and more. There was also an open food cart that went up and down the isles selling noodles, rice and more. At one point the people on the lower bunk light a cigarette filling the upper bunks with smoke. They were not supposed to smoke in the cabin but none of the employees stopped them (you will find in much of Asia that such rules and laws are followed far less strictly).

-Despite what I was saying in my first post above about the street food being largely safe to eat I am amazed at some of the stuff that locals buy. I can remember one lady selling assorted meats right out of a bucket on the side of the street (chicken feet, tripe, etc...) and I mean just a bucket. I haven't gotten really sick despite eating lots of street food and at all kinds of less than clean restaurants but I have developed a rather persistent case of diarrhea. Nothing too serious though. If I stayed here longer by GI tract would likely get used to it. But I would always stay away from the most dodgy looking stuff.

-If you travel outside the major tourist cities you will get stared at A LOT and talked about openly a lot. You will hear "Louwai" a lot. This is something that is hard to get used to. This largely stems from 2 things. (1) Traditionally the Chinese are an extremely unselfconscious people (I'm not saying this as a true negative) and hence things like staring are not necessarily considered rude out right. (2) Chinese people often have a very distorted view of westerners. We are more than something of a curiosity.

-Like I was saying above the Chinese are remarkably unselfconscious about many things. The primary thing you will notice would be bodily functions. Chewing, slurping, farting, spitting, going to the bathroom. All of these in the west are considered private matters and we try to hide them from public view. Much less so in China and you will see people spitting in the street, eating/slurping loudly, talking loudly, etc etc... This is FAR more the case with the previous generation than the up and coming younger generation who much more resemble the west in every way.

-The economic boom here is mind blowing. When we lived here 20+ years ago the country was just starting to open up and people still dressed in communist attire. Shops still sold a very small range of goods. Cars were just starting to spear in numbers. People rarely owned much in the way of property. Communications was a hit and miss affair as there were few land lines. Fast forward to now and every city of size has a skyscraper skyline. Buildings are going up at breakneck pace. China has a good highways system. Cars are everywhere. Everyone and their dog has a cell phone (even farmers). The pace of growth is so fast that they don't even clear away old buildings when they knock them down. They just clear away enough to build the new skyscraper leaving a shell of rubble next to it. How often have you seen large municipal works like highway systems, subways systems, major water works, damns etc being constructed? Seems to me every city we visit has something of this magnitude being worked on. Because of this virtual explosion there are literally 2 different China's. There's the China of the 20 something generation who you would be hard pressed to tell apart from westerners and then there is everyone else older than them. They saw their country go from rural third world sleepiness to modern bustling metropolis overnight and they still hang on to their rural upbringings which also explains the point above.
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Locut0s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 11:49 AM
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1. Bump
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:29 PM
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2. kick
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Locut0s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:48 PM
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3. Thanks :)
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 01:36 PM
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4. i wish more peopel replied, interesting account.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 01:39 PM
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5. was the air pollution as bad as described?
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Locut0s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 04:33 AM
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9. Depending on the day and the city it varies from God awful to rather bearable however...
It's never entirely gone. Cities like Shanghai on a bad day are tinted yellow. You can look straight at the setting sun through a yellow/orange haze. You will see a LOT of people in the major cities wearing masks as they go about their daily business. You will know why if you visit during a bad smog day, you can feel it in your thought. However if the winds pick up and the temperature is right you actually get to see blue sky, lol. In the smaller cities it's more a matter of the local pollution from poorly maintained vehicles than a matter of an all pervasive smog. There are other forms of pollution here though. Water pollution is a HUGE problem. I imagine that places in India and Africa are worse but one still wonders about the health of the people swimming, fishing and washing their cloths in the rivers. I'm talking about the rivers that flow through the smaller cities, no one is stupid enough to swim in the river in Shanghai. The concept of noise pollution doesn't really exist yet here, all such concerns give way to the demand for further growth. However there is a small growing awareness of these issues and the peoples impact on the environment at large. As time goes buy and the rising economic tide lifts peoples prosperity these issues will become more important to people.
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 01:56 PM
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6. thanks for these posts
What cities and areas are you visiting in China? What are the hotels like?
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Locut0s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Shanghai, Xiamen, Fouzhou, Gulien, Nanning. The hotels are by and large...
Edited on Thu Jun-18-09 05:23 AM by Locut0s
quit good and cheap though as always your millage may very. It's a good idea to plan your hotels out before hand. Don't trust and of the taxi drivers when they say things like "oh you don't want to go to that place, that's just a hole in the wall, I take you someplace nice". You don't need to stay in the large western chains and you will only waste your money doing so. Also avoid the big local tourist hotels. At the same time I'd stay away from the really cheap places. One suggestion I have is a Chinese hotel chain called Ru Jia which is essentially a copy of our best western. Clean washrooms, TV, free internet, air conditioning and a few other amenities for a little over 200 RMB for a double bedroom. That's about $30 US a night a nice deal :)
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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 02:06 PM
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7. I'm enjoying your commentary and thank you very much.
The first time I went to China was in 1979. It had just opened up to tourists from the US, but in order to go you had to be affiliated with an educational organization. My mom found a group going over from the University of Arizona Alumni Association. They needed a few more warm bodies to make the trip feasible and mom got us on it. I was 26 at the time and it was fascinating. The group got to go to Guangzhou, Nanning, Kunming and Beijing. While in Nanning, we got taken to the People's Friendship Store, a huge old concrete bunker of a place with no air conditioning and very few windows. The heat and humidity even at 7 in the evening were oppressive and mom and I along with several others in our group walked to the front door to get some air. A small crowd developed, everyone interested in looking at the foreigners. My mom who had blond hair as frequently followed in the streets as we walked around. One woman insisted that I hold her young son, which I did. Any car you saw was a party official. One of the major events was a trip to a pig farming commune. Young people starting out married life together desperately wanted the 5 bigs and usually had to make due with a few of the 5 smalls. The five bigs were a tv, a motor scooter, a refrigerator, a clothes washer and, some other appliance that I can't remember. The 5 smalls were things like a bike and a radio. The Mao suit was all you saw people wearing. It was truly eye-opening.

Fast forward to 2003 when my husband and I traveled to China to bring our adopted daughter home. This time private cars were all over the place. Neon was all over the place in the cities, as were McDonalds and KFCs. Jeans and t-shirts were on everyone except a few older women and men. No Mao suits to be seen. Cell phones were in everyones' hands. What a change! Keep up the reporting - it's fascinating.
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Locut0s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Yes the China of my childhood was just as you described...
though when we left I was only 5 years old. However I still remember the flavor of the place. Compared to today everything was like a sleepy village. My family and I distinctly remember the Mao suits you described which today are relegated to little more than curiosities to be sold to tourists at the street markets, along with other memorabilia of the cultural revolution of earlier. Though I don't personally member the "big 5" items that people were striving for I know the fact from having talked with my parents about the period over the years.

Similar to your situation we were affiliated with a University. My father taught English there. He had been studying Chinese for about 12 years by that point (he met my mother while studying Chinese) and was starting to become fairly fluent. He now teaches Chinese back in Canada and is almost fluent.
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Suich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Love reading your posts, LocutOs!
Sounds like a fascinating place!

Thanks!

:)
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Locut0s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Thanks! Yes it is facinating. NT
NT
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Locut0s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
13. I don't know if the comparison has ever been made but the Chinese strike me as being...
Edited on Thu Jun-18-09 05:21 AM by Locut0s
emotionally much like the Italians. They are both hot blooded, easy to anger easy to friendship. They can be extremely kind and helpful. Children here are fussed over and spoiled to no end. Peoples faces light up when they see a small child and will go out of their way to talk to the child and their parents. This reminds me very much of the Italian view of Children as "bambini". They too spoil their children to no end and often someones child will be a conversation starter. They are both a proud people often given to boasting about their accomplishments. They are both a very patriotic people.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours"
If I could give it double the rec's than the celebrity vs. celebrity kerfuffles seem to attract here I 3would do do. Sorry to be such a late reader, but thanks for posting another first hand observation that we are all human but we are not all identical.
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Locut0s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thanks I think :-) You are saying you tried to rec my thread right?...
Little trouble understanding what you wrote :)
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Locut0s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
16. Another money saving tip. Wash your own cloths in your hotel room....
Get some detergent and wash your own cloths in the sink. Laundromats are hard to find outside the bigger cities and hotels charge too much to do it for you.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
17. do you think the changes are positive for China ?
i'm sure many are, but everything ?

what you describe about China is kind of similar to when i visited India. although i had not visited there when i was young so i have no memories of it. it's like 2 different worlds. almost everyone seems to have a cell phone and satellite even if they live in old homes that don't look to be in great condition.

the staring thing is familiar also.

so what kind of things are you doing while there ? mostly sightseeing ?

why do you say not to listen to the cab driver if they say they will take you somewehre nice ? is it because they will take you somewhere expensive.

i mentioned before i would like to visit china and i will check out that hotel you mentioned whenever i do.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
18. also, where are you using the computer mostly ?
did you take one with you or are you using ones over there ? how available is internet access around the country ?
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