Well he gave everyone hope and the change took a dose dive into hell

[William769]

I will start by saying that this thread is not going to be about DOMA or DADT, just that when you add those two to what I am about to say Is why part of the title is " change took a dose dive into hell".

My next door neighbor Christine, signed up for school last month under a program that was set up to get displaced housewives back to school in the stimulus economic package. She is 45 years old and has been a housewife all her adult life. When she signed up at school she was told she had to fill out student loan papers as standard operating procedure, but the money in the program will pay for her school.

Her Husband Charlie's Unemployment benefits ran out this month and is now on the extended unemployment package which will run out in a shorter amount of time than his regular unemployment. He is also 45 this is his first time ever collecting unemployment and they are both scared.

The plot thickens, Christine went to school this morning and she was told that the Federal Government has decided not to grant the money for the special program for displaced housewives but not to worry her student loans plus a check from her for $250.00 a month will pay for her schooling. Needless to say she went into a panic. They can't meet their bills now and now she is expected to shell out an additional $250.00 a month for school which she would have never done in the first place. So her only option is to drop out of school have her student loans come due for this semester and default on them. Needless to say she is not happy about any of this and has apologized to me for what she considered all the "whining" I did about Obama his Administration and their broken promises.

I should not say this, but I am actually happy that it's not just the GLBT community getting screwed, but the trickle down effect is hitting home with Gay and Straight.

A little less cheer leading, and allot more diligence in holding this Administration accountable for what it says and does is in order.

[960]

1. We got played. Obama is nothing but Bush 3.0. Oh well, we're fucked.

[rvablue]

5. I don't think you got played on anything. I think you're the one playing games!! n/t

[960]

29. No, I think we did.

Obama ran to the left of Hillary. Ha! right.

[MineralMan]

50. Did you have anything to contribute to the actual subject

of this thread, or are you jut Obama bashing on general principles?

[Jack_DeLeon]

37. Yep...

another n00b with no experience.

I like about his other plan to save the government money, he gave people $25 extra in unemployment which then made them ineligible for hundreds of dollars in food stamps.

[tridim]

48. Naw, he's already worse than Hilter.

Get on the bandwagon man!

[Javaman]

69. Nice post, Himmler! nt

[mkultra]

2. what program do you speak of

I'm not aware of any program in the stimulus like this. If your referring to the Hope program, its a tax credit.

[William769]

6. Can't remember the name of the program but here is a link to what some of it is about.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05292009/news/regionalnews/timulating_way_to_learn_a_trade_171496.htm

[mkultra]

7. yeah, those are city programs. again. what are you talking about.

[William769]

8. I just asked Christine she said it's called the WorkForce Investment Act.

[mkultra]

11. the WIA is from 1998

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workforce_Investment_Act

[William769]

19. Heres the original article, it's from April so it took awhile to find.

http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=28570&z=3

[mkultra]

23. nothing in there about pulling funds. The money is in place

Does your friend live in Florida or NY?

[William769]

26. Florida, and the money never arrived

That article is from April so of course it would not say anything about pulling funds, they just found out today the money is not forthcoming.

[rvablue]

32. She found out today the money isn't there. Okay, so either she took the loan

already -- meaning she signed the paper work, they cut a check and she deposited -- or she didn't.

Which is it?

You can't default on a loan you haven't accepted. Why did she take the loan money then before finding out if the public financing would come through?

You and your friend also need to realize this is state-administered program and has nothing to do with the Obama administration.

[MineralMan]

38. So, find something about pulling funds. So far you've offered

nothing to indicate that the funds were pulled, other than third-hand information. Pulled by whom? Did the fine state of Florida divert the funds somehow? Did your county or city decide to use them in a way not specified?

All you've done is show that the funds were coming. You've offered no solid information to the contrary, nor any details about why your friend isn't going to get the training.

I'm not carrying pom poms of any kind. I just like to have all the information before placing blame.

[William769]

43. Well the paper trail has to start someplace

And it just happened today. So I am sure we will be hearing more about it. Untill then I will be sure to tell Christine That before she places blame she needs to see it in the news. I am sure that will reassure her.

[MineralMan]

47. Just happened today. I see.

So, what's the name of the school? Is it a privately-owned school. Perhaps they were blowing smoke up the dresses of their prospective students in hopes that their program would be approved by whomever distributes the funds.

The approval didn't happen, so the students are hosed. You see, you don't provide any real information, and that's the problem.

So, name the school. Name the local administration that handles these funds. All you have is third-hand information that someone said that the feds pulled the funds. People lie. If the school is privately-owned, the whole thing could be a scam, designed to fool people into filling out the loan docs to get them enrolled.

So, give us all the information and I'll bet we can find out what really happened, rather than what you suppose happened.

[Dr.Phool]

74. I could be off on this, but I had a similar experience in 2002-2003.

I qualified for retraining under the Trade Adjustment Act and another program in early 2002 (March). I applied in Ohio, but by the time my application was processed, in May, the program was out of money for the year.

I moved to Florida in January 2003, and reapplied. I was told that Jeb Bush had decided against funding the (federal) program. Apparently the money was given as part of a block grant, instead of an earmark, and he kept the money to spend on something else. Like cutting wealth taxes.

I don't know about your friends situation, but I wonder if Charlie Crist is playing the same games.

[Horse with no Name]

85. Florida has a republican governor

I am not sure, but did Crist turn down any of the stimulus funds?

[csziggy]

56. Hmmm, StimuluWatch has nothing for WIA in their projects for Ft. Myers

http://www.stimuluswatch.org/project/by_city/Fort%20Myers/FL

Searching StimulusWatch for WorkForce Investment Act gets ZERO results - it is not in the programs.
http://www.stimuluswatch.org/project/search/WorkForce+Investment+Act

The Florida State Workforce Investment Plan - revised May 19, 2009 - says:

Use of WIA Title I Funds to Leverage Federal, State, Local and Private Resources
The Governor’s vision in Florida for increasing training access and opportunities for
individuals is anchored in state statute that requires that fifty percent (50%) of the
formula funds for adults and dislocated workers must be allocated to individual training
accounts unless the local board obtains a waiver from WFI. This requirement affirms the
vision of the Governor that a majority of funding must go for direct training related costs.
Costs that qualify under the 50% rule will include all customer service costs associated
with the ITA program such as tuition, fees and materials, ITA performance payments,
and the costs of assessment, career planning, and case management. This rule will apply
to both regular formula and ARRA funding. The vision of the Governor is that the
additional funding resources result in more individuals getting training and obtaining
employment. {Page 46}
http://www.workforceflorida.com/news/reports/WIA2009/Master_DRAFT_1-YearWIAPlan2009-2010rev3_5-19-09.pdf

The only place in this document "stimulus" is mentioned is "However, local
discretion will be employed in the selection of service providers for delivering stimulus
funded summer employment and training, as well as year-round activities for eligible
youth."

The woman discussed needs to go to the state agency and read up on the state administered programs.
http://www.workforceflorida.com/index.htm

[MineralMan]

59. Thanks for the research. I'm still hoping to hear the name of

the actual school. I'm betting it's a private school that blew some smoke up someone's leg.

[MineralMan]

66. Here's the FL State page on WIA Funds disbursement

At this point, the distribution of available fund was still to be decided, so no information on funds for Lee County is available on this state site:

I could not find any info on WIA funds for Lee County in 2009 other than this.

http://flarecovery.com/about/state-and-local-projects/jobs/workforce-employment-and-training

[MineralMan]

68. And here's information about the State's Requested Waivers

on how these funds are to be handled for 2009:

http://www.workforceflorida.com/news/reports/WIA2009/SummaryWaiverRequest%20_AbbreviatedRequestandNewWaiver.pdf

Based on this information, it's clear that, if any funds were pulled, they were pulled by the state or local administrative bodies.

End of story.

[MineralMan]

72. And here's a list of approved training institutions for

Lee County, Florida

http://www.floridajobs.org/etpl/Selections.asp?area=Lee&area_code=04000071&map=Counties

[MineralMan]

73. Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing. All sorts of factual

information is available for situations like this one. There's no need to operate with third-hand, word-of-mouth information. A guy can go look things up and find out that WIA is administered by the state, which disburses funds to different parts of the state, where they are disbursed to individuals and schools.

It seems that President Obama is not involved in this process, but that there are lots of state and local people who have control over the funds.

If I had time, and enough interest, I could probably dig up the agency or individual who bollixed up this woman's funds. I don't have time or interest. Perhaps the OP would be interested in exploring further, using Google and other tools available to anyone on the web.

Or, perhaps not. It's a lot easier to just blame Obama and be done with it.

[rvablue]

78. Hmmm, MM....do you think the OP will actually respond to such clear cut research and facts??

Doubt it.

He and his friend seemed convinced it is because President Obama wants to screw people over! Facts be damned!

[MineralMan]

80. No, of course not, but I wanted to show just how easily

he/she might have discovered he/she was wrong. Oh well.

[csziggy]

81. Ah, but it far easier to come on a Democratic forum and bash a Democratic President

Than actually research the issue and find out the facts.

[gizmo1979]

67. It works in combination with

FTAA.Combined they pay 100 percent of college expenses,books,uniforms,tools,even mileage.

[rvablue]

16. Looks like a law that was passed in the Clinton administration and is state run.

Therefore you should let your friend know that this has nothing to do with President Obama.

The stimulus package was directed at certain areas, but the money was given to the states and ultimattely Governors and legislatures are going to decide exactly how it is spent.

Congress and the President didn't sit down and write a dollar for dollar allotment on how this money was going to be spent, but rather defined broad areas where it was to go.

[William769]

20. See this link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5861389&mesg_id=5861595

Like I said she is 45 and first time in school she is in panic. No it is from the Obama Administration.

[MineralMan]

17. And so...what does that have to do with President Obama?

I don't believe he was President in 1998. Putting things onto Obama that have nothing to do with him is a GOOPer thing. Why are you doing it?

[William769]

See post 19

For the correct information.

[MineralMan]

33. I did read that. It is a locally administered program. Check

with the local administration. Obama has nothing to do with deciding who gets the training, you know. He's a busy guy. That's why it's administered by a local authority.

Just yesterday, someone was blaming President Obama for her kids not being able to find work. Blaming Obama seems like the thing to do these days. You've jumped on that bashwagon, it seems.

[William769]

36. The money never arrived.

[rvablue]

21. Yeah, it was under Clinton and it's a decent program. One can also not blame Obama as it is a state

run program.

The state gets the funds and then decides how they are used.

There a multitude of reasons why this lady didn't get access to the funds. There are a lot of people out of work. Maybe the demand was too high. Maybe she didn't qualify.

But to use this as some kind of measure that Obama has failed the people is simply ludicrous!




ed: mssp.

[William769]

24. Because the Money never arrived to the State of Florida.

[MineralMan]

25. It was the state or the local jurisdiction that pulled the funds,

not Obama. Stop blaming the President for what others do, OK. Thanks.

[William769]

28. And you know this how?

The school was informed that the money would not be coming to the State a promised.

Get a new pair of pom poms!

[dionysus]

34. pom poms are stale, why don't you throw in a messiah or two as your attempt to blame this on obama

has miserably failed.

[William769]

39. Your attempt to deflect is what has failed miserably.

[dionysus]

41. no, you are disingenuously blaming obama for shit he has absolutley nothing to with. try harder next

time.

[William769]

44. You have yet to explain how he " has absolutley nothing to with"

He promised the money it didn't show up.

I will add you to the squad of chherleaders for Obama, oh wait you have been there all along.

[dionysus]

52. mkultra, mineralman, and rvablue demolished your argument upthread.

:shrug:

[William769]

53. Only for the cheerleading squad.

[dionysus]

57. i guess facts mean nothing when you decide to make shit up eh?

[MineralMan]

54. No, you know....it's the person who makes the charge who has

the burden of proof. You're the one making the case. So far, you have not done so.

[mkultra]

75. The stimulus package has already passed through congress and Obama

Its not like anyone is waiting on a 31 million dollar check that's in the mail. These funds are already allocated. If your state or local school is not getting the money it wants, its at the state or local level at this point.

The money has been provided. Past tense.

[konnichi wa]

3. Le plus ca change le plus ca le meme chose

:shrug:

[lamp_shade]

4. Feeding Frenzy.... 4... 3... 2... 1...

[rvablue]

9. You lost me at this statement:

"So her only option is to drop out of school have her student loans come due for this semester and default on them."

If she just signed up last month and wasn't yet in the program, why would she be defaulting on anything?

This doesn't add up. Sorry.

[William769]

13. It's simple she will have to drop out

Once she drops out the loans will be come due and she won't be able to afford to pay them so she will default on them.

[MineralMan]

18. Again, what does this have to do with President Obama?

You haven't made the link yet.

[William769]

31. He's the one that said the money was forthcoming when in fact it was not.

No I doubt he would have hand delivered it if thats the type of link your looking for.

[rvablue]

51. OK....President Obama said the funds was "forthcoming" to this particular program.

Can you please direct us to that quote?

[MineralMan]

55. No, he can't.

Nor can he tell us much of anything else, it seems. I've asked for the name of the school, the name of the local program that administers these funds. That way, we could actually look into this. So far, we have third-hand stuff being fed to us, piece by piece.

This isn't happening to our poster, but to someone else, who heard something from the unnamed school about something. No facts have been presented.

[ecstatic]

63. Absolutely nothing. Just another nasty post with no facts nt

[rvablue]

27. This isn't meeting up with my standards of simple logic.

You said she signed up last month.

She decided to take the loan after finding out the public funds weren't there?

How is this Obama's fault?

[William769]

35. From the original post.

"When she signed up at school she was told she had to fill out student loan papers as standard operating procedure, but the money in the program will pay for her school."

He promised the money and never delivered.

[rvablue]

40. William, filling out paperwork and actually accepting the loan are two things.

Either she took the money or she didn't.

And it's quite obvious that you don't want to listen to reason or fact.

This program receives federal funds and is administered by the state. Yeah, it's likely it is eligible for stimulus funds, but it was up to Crist and the Florida legislature to distribute the funds within the state according the broad parameters given by the federal government.

To place the blame on this on President Obama is fantastically ridiculous.

[mkultra]

76. The school promised her the money

Not Obama

[zalinda]

49. Can't you read?

He said that she signed up, and was told that When she signed up at school she was told she had to fill out student loan papers as standard operating procedure, but the money in the program will pay for her school. Then he said The plot thickens, Christine went to school this morning and she was told that the Federal Government has decided not to grant the money for the special program for displaced housewives but not to worry her student loans plus a check from her for $250.00 a month will pay for her schooling.


So, to sum it up. She was told that the funds were there, but needed to fill out forms as a sop. She went to class and then found out, the money won't be coming. And, since she attended a class, she is now liable for the student loan.

All those classes are crap anyway, just ask all those who took IT classes in the 90's because they lost their manufacturing job. Those computer classes were supposed to prepare them for good jobs. And, now those jobs are in India, and it doesn't look like Obama is going to stop outsourcing any time soon.

zalinda

[MineralMan]

58. All of this is third-hand information. We don't even know the name

of the school. Scams run by private schools are commonplace. They promise students that federal funds are available to pay for their training, but get them to fill out loan papers...JUST IN CASE...

Then, when it comes time for school to start, suddenly they tell the student, "Oh, the feds pulled the funds, but it's OK, since you got the loan. You can start tomorrow."

You haven't heard of these scams?

I've asked for the name of the school, but haven't gotten an answer. Someone will have to call someone, since this is all third-hand information.

We can read, but the content isn't there for us to make a reasoned judgment.

[rvablue]

60. Sorrry, Zalinda, try again.

It says she filled out the paper work.

If she accepted the loans, then she accepted the loans.

You don't by default accept loans by "attending a class." You must sign forms accepting the check either electronically or by paper.

And the lack of funds has ZERO to do with Obama. The program is state run. There have been no reports that the federal government has rescinded previoulsy promised funds from Florida, so the only other explanation is that this school played William's friend by promising money that was never coming or the state redirected the funds elsewhere.

Ergo, this about Crist and the Florida legislature at best and has absolutely nothing to do with the federal government.

[mkultra]

77. Yeah, we can read. Can you?

His post says the school promised her federal funds which turned out to not exist. The stimulus money DOES exist though. so in effect, the only person who made a bad promise was the person who told her "she had to fill out student loan papers as standard operating procedure, but the money in the program will pay for her school."

Any questions professor?

[Horse with no Name]

87. schools cannot promise federal funds without a FAFSA. n/t

[mkultra]

89. which is probably why there is a problem in this case

Its clear from the description that this is exactly what happened. Someone promised her federal dollars that turned out not to exist when they saw her previous income.

[marmar]

10. Matinee time.....

Butter in the middle and on top, lightly salted for me....


:popcorn:

[mkultra]

12. its going to be a horror flick

[LWolf]

14. He didn't give those paying attention any hope. nt

[gizmo1979]

15. What about a Pell grant?

No income coming in Pell should cover school and some living expenses.Also the husband should look into Free Trade adjustment,that's what I'm on they pay for all school costs including mileage and you get unemployment for 2 years.

[William769]

22. Said her husband made too much money in 2007.

[gizmo1979]

42. Do you mean 2008 ?

Why would 2007 matter?It sucks being unemployed at least my wife still works.My sympathy goes out to them.I don't think any of our elected idiots really have a clue as to what is going on in the real world.

[William769]

45. no I mean 2007, we are still trying to figure that one out.

[dionysus]

30. my cat shit his carrier on the way to the vet. i hold obama personally responsible.

[ecstatic]

64. Everything is Obama's fault!!!11 Series!!11

[graywarrior]

46. Based on threads like this, I've decided to take a break from DU and

actually walk the walk--you know, try to DO something about what I think is not completely working in my favor. I'm volunteering to work for health care on June 27 instead of sitting here posting about what I despise about the guy I voted into office.

[Number23]

88. Love that idea. And taking a break from DU when stuff like this becomes the norm is good advice too.

[bvar22]

61. In the 60s and 70s.....

...it was possible to attend a State University and graduate debt free if one was willing to work part time.

It was also possible for a non-college educated "blue collar" parent to:

*Raise 3 children in health & comfort

*Provide adequate Health Care for his entire family

*Buy and Pay Off a decent suburban home

*Buy a new car every few years

*Save for retirement

*Take a real vacation every year.

The above was The NORM*. (*If you were male and white)

The above would be possible today if there was a Political Party that represented Working Americans.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[nashville_brook]

65. this needs to be its own thread. great post.

[zalinda]

82. Yup, that's what I remember, and lived.

Poor people were still struggling, but they were making it. They could actually afford to go to the doctor. I know, because we were able to go, and we were poor enough that we got Thanksgiving and Christmas food baskets from the church, as well as food commodities from the government. We also were able to go to the dentist, not to get cavities filled, but teeth pulled.

Back then we had real Democrats, not these new want-a-be's. We actually believed that our government was there for our protection.

zalinda

[Berry Cool]

83. Of course, if you were a white FEMALE "blue collar parent"

raising your kids alone, with the help of only sporadic child support, not so much.

I still count myself lucky as the child of such a person, because I was able to complete a master's degree and my entire higher education cost me $15,000 out of pocket. Which took me only 12 years to pay off.

[bvar22]

84. Could you do that today?

Probably not.
A Political Party that represents Working Americans would help make it possible again.

[DefenseLawyer]

62. I can't believe I read this whole thread.

It sounds to be like your friend got taken by a financial aid worker at the community college. If you qualify for a grant it is not "standard procedure" to sign a note and take out a loan. Either this person was an idiot or he was conning your friend into signing the loan papers with some promise that a program would pay off her loan. I am going to jump out the window now. Good luck with everything.

[Kaleva]

70. I think she got conned by the school

From the posts I've read in this thread, I don't see what Obama had to do with your friends situation.

[whistler162]

71. wrong thread

[mkultra]

79. im sure that Flordia is just waiting on the $39 million check to clear.

[Horse with no Name]

86. Some of this doesn't make sense

I am not calling you out--but IF this was for FEDERAL money, the ONLY way you can get FEDERAL money is to fill out a FAFSA. Do not fill out FAFSA, do not pass go, do not collect $100. FAFSA is the gold standard of financial aid in reputable colleges/universities. They NEVER ask for more than last years tax information.
So you fill out your FAFSA, then jump the hoops that your local school financial aid office lays out there, THEN they send you a letter telling you what financial aid you qualify for, then you sign it and return it to the school. It is a promise they make to you.
I have seen this with my schooling, my kids schooling, my friends kids schooling...I've never seen the procedure deviate when FEDERAL funds were involved.
It sounds to me, the most likely scenario is that this is some sort of private school...who possibly lied to her. I have never seen ANYONE require tax returns 3 years old.