I don't normally say "lock 'em up and throw away the key" for an 18-y/o

[Tab]

Mr. Weinman, 18, appeared in court on Monday by video uplink, looking less like a killer than a bored mall rat. He had already smirked for the mug shot taken after his arrest on Sunday, and he smiled again when the judge said he should be kept separate from other inmates because he might be a danger to others or himself.

The rest of the time, Mr. Weinman shuffled his feet. He looked around as if tuning out a school principal. His only words were a greeting of “good afternoon.”

“It’s the kid next door,” said Katy Sorenson, the county commissioner who represents the area. “It adds another level to the disturbing nature of the crime.”

Mr. Weinman has been charged with 19 counts of felony animal cruelty — carrying a prison sentence of up to six months each — along with 19 counts of improperly disposing of an animal body and 4 counts of burglary. The judge ordered him held for psychiatric evaluation and set bail at $249,500.

Officials from the Miami suburbs of Cutler Bay and Palmetto Bay, where Mr. Weinman’s divorced parents live and most of the cats were found, said he seemed to enjoy the chase. Some of the carcasses appeared after residents had started nighttime patrols and after the cable TV network Animal Planet began interviewing them about the killings.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/us/16miami.html?ref=global-home

I don't normally say "lock 'em up and throw away the key" for an 18-y/o

and this isn't "even" about violence against humans... yet.

At a minimum I hope they psychiatric-evaluate him for a lonnng time. This is how sociopaths start out. Easily a potential Ted Bundy in the making. Not only was he "acting out" but he was not a whit bothered about his arrest.

Cats today, but likely women tomorrow (or homeless vagrants or whomever). If he is let go, he needs to be on the tightest leash imaginable. There's something seriously wrong in his head. I'm sure he needs help, but I'm also sure I wouldn't dare release him and just have him see a therapist twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays. If you think he was in the news now for cats, just release him and give it a few years. I'll bet it won't be long before we find he's "graduated" to bigger and better prey.

[opihimoimoi]

1. Clearly a psychotic needing a prolonged rehab or treatment by doctors of the mind.

He should be put in a stockade...locked in...and peeps can throw eggs/rocks at him...

[Heidi]

2. It's being reported that he's a member of the "Catch the Cat Killer" facebook group.

If it's proven that he committed these crimes, I hope he gets the help he needs. The fact is, he's 18 years old and even if convicted, he's gonna eventually be released into a community somewhere.

Weinman was known in his community as an animal lover, according to United Press International. He even belonged to a Facebook group called "Catch the Cat Killer," and authorities intimated that his writings about the crimes on Facebook and MySpace caused them to become suspicious. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleashed/2009/06/teenager-charged-with-animal-cruelty-in-florida-cat-killer-case.html

[vadawg]

4. looks kinda like the fireman who lights fires, strange case.

probuably wouldnt lock him up i think he needs psych help. Mayby some probation as well.

[hobbit709]

3. He's got those eyes

There is no conscience behind the eyes. Junior grade Bundy or BTK is right.

[armyowalgreens]

7. How scientific...

"Those eyes"

Spare me the "witch trial" bullshit.

[hobbit709]

58. How many true sociopaths have you encountered?

If you've ever dealt with one you would know what I'm talking about. I've run into several, including one that killed five people before he got caught.

[armyowalgreens]

75. So please, explain to me how his drivers license photo shows

"Those eyes"

What does that even mean?

[Doremus]

55. My thought also.

I find the look in his eyes rather disturbing.

[Bucky]

5. Total sociopath. Sadly, in most jurisdictions, he's only guilty of property crimes.

[kedrys]

6. My first reaction was worse

Along the lines of "kill him before he breeds". I'm a cat lover, and I couldn't even read past the headlines in this case, but I don't think I need to.

[brendan120678]

8. I don't get it...

Why do so many people here claim to hate and oppose the death penalty under any and all circumstances...unless it is something like a cat or a dog that gets killed?

That really really makes no sense.

[armyowalgreens]

10. I'm confused as well.

It seems quite hypocritical.

People hate killing guilty people, but want to kill psychopaths with no understanding of true "harm".


It doesn't make sense.

[vadawg]

13. lol oh oh, it is strange how people will call for death if you kill animals

but kill a person, especially someone they disagree with politically and its a different story, i guess everyone has their own buttons and causes and it will always be so.

[MicaelS]

43. Me neither

Suggest the death penalty for a premeditated murder of a human, and it's "get out the handkerchiefs" and "Google the Innocence Project" and "they're just a victim of society." Kill an animal, ESPECIALLY a cat, it's "no trial needed, just execute him" or some extreme variation of punishment. One cat zealot right here on DU said they would stand on the chest of a person who shot one of their feral cats and shoot the persons eyes out with a BB gun. That is flat sick. The only conclusion I can arrive at is some people here think animals, specifically cats, are more valuable than people.

[rockymountaindem]

49. Did you see the thread where about 50% of the respondents said they'd save their pet instead of a

stranger if they could only save one from a fire? That really reduced my opinion of humanity. Save Whiskers-the-cat, but let some other person burn alive. Ugh.

[MicaelS]

50. No I did not

And THAT is pretty sick. Reduces my opinion of humanity also.

[superduperfarleft]

54. I'd gladly save my cat over some person I don't even know.

I'd gladly save my wife over a complete stranger as well. Allowing my cat to die in order to save some complete stranger is a complete betrayal of the trust my cat places in me. Not sure why you find that so horrible.

[rockymountaindem]

59. Because a cat is not a human being

Human beings are far more important to me than animals, period. Other than that I'm not going to engage in this "debate" because it's so enraging.

[superduperfarleft]

60. Well, that's like your opinion, man. n/t

[MicaelS]

61. Justs remember what goes around comes around

Just imagine how you would feel if you were drowning and some person favored their animal over you.

[superduperfarleft]

63. If this is a choice that comes up daily for you...

You must lead a pretty exciting life.

[alcibiades_mystery]

65. The most comical trope on this board is "I usually oppose the death penalty, but in this case..."

Needless to say, every possible case could be worked up into an exception to the "usual" opposition. I immediately discount the intelligence or ethics of anyone who says this.

[konnichi wa]

72. Simple. Because cats and dogs almost never deserve to be killed.

...

[mitchum]

9. He should be put out of his misery

See, I'm compassionate

[armyowalgreens]

11. You assume he is miserable.

So no, you aren't compassionate.

[mitchum]

17. Okay, maybe he's just a little piece of shit who needs to have his head kicked in

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[armyowalgreens]

18. Don't be such a prick.

People with mental illness don't understand the reason why bad things are bad. They live in a completely different world than you or I.

Suggesting that this kid is an asshole that deserves to die is just being an asshole yourself. Get a fucking clue. Please.

[mitchum]

21. Out of the mouths of babes...

often dribbles nothing but pablum

[armyowalgreens]

22. I will again say...Out of the mouths of old angry people

often comes nothing but hatred and contempt.

Own it.

[mitchum]

23. Repeating it...

still doesn't make it witty. Maybe halfwitty, though...

[armyowalgreens]

24. I'm not trying for wit.

Sorry.

[mitchum]

26. Good... you at least know your limitations

[armyowalgreens]

29. Wit doesn't substitute for lack of substance.

Make all the funnies you want.

[mitchum]

68. And a bleeding heart doesn't substitute for a brain

[konnichi wa]

73. One can be softhearted without being softheaded.

:-)
(agreeing with you)

[izquierdista]

38. Out of the mouths of the crazy

Dribbles nothing but foam

[mitchum]

67. Y'know, Che had no problem with permanently removing those...

who pose a threat to society. Nor do I.
You might want to get another "cool avatar"

[cali]

25. oh how I love rich irony.

you lecturing others about compassion is amusing, after you advocated that you believed infants and others who aren't "self-aware" should be subject to euthanasia. And the kicker? I agree that wishing for this kid to die is a bit much.

[armyowalgreens]

27. I argued for a utilitarian view of "right to life."

Bring some substance to this argument at least. Cheap shots are useless.

I argued that non self-aware beings do not necessarily have an automatic right to life.

That has nothing to do with compassion. Sorry.

[cali]

31. not at all a cheap shot. and yes, of course advocating-

and that's precisely what you did- that infants, the profoundly retarded, mentally ill and others should be subject to euthanasia, demonstrates a profound lack of compassion. Hell, you even argued that infants aren't self-aware.

[armyowalgreens]

33. Gross misrepresentation of my views.

Thanks for the distortion.

I said that non self-aware beings are not afforded the "right to life" that we enjoy. That means that they can be euthanized if no parties with a vested interest object. But if someone wishes to keep that being alive, I would never force euthanasia.


There is also evidence that very young infants are not self-aware. But as I have stated before, the evidence is not strong enough for me to be okay with euthanizing infants. So I would not make that legal at this point.

[cali]

35. no it's not. Why don't you post that comment here and let everyone else decide?

And yeah, you're lacking in compassion. Hopefully that will change.

[armyowalgreens]

36. I don't even know how to access those posts. You brought this up...

You find the damn posts.

I am going to bed because I have work in 8 hours.

I will be on later to read and respond.

[cali]

37. I'm going to work.

do a search. it really isn't hard.

[superduperfarleft]

52. There's medication that could probably help you, cali. n/t

[rocktivity]

12. DING DING DING! Tab, you're our grand prize winner!

...this isn't "even" about violence against humans... yet.

That's why it's so important to catch these guys as soon as possible--this is EXACTLY how Jeffery Dahmer got started. And that guy who taped himself raping drugged women--it would have been only a matter of time before he grew "confident" enough to move on to dead ones.

Hopefully the judge will make like OJ Simpson's and run his sentences consecutively.

:mad:
rocktivity

[Captain Hilts]

41. This is an 'entry' crime before going on to much worse. nt

[AngryOldDem]

14. Clearly a sociopath

Put him to good use and let science study his brain so maybe there can be answers as to why some people turn out this way.

And yes -- he needs to be locked up, FAR FAR away from any living being.

[vadawg]

15. yup a sociopath, but remember we are talking about cats

yes people love their pets, yes its a sign he may go on to kill other things, but lets not get all pitchfork and fire on his ass.

[armyowalgreens]

16. The shit people spew in DU really pisses me off sometimes.

"he needs to be locked up, FAR FAR away from any living being."

Yes let's isolate him from any possibility of every feeling love or human companionship. That is the best for a human being. After all, he doesn't deserve the best life possible or anything.

I agree that he should be closely monitored, but isolating him for the rest of his life is just a terrible thing to want. Simply terrible.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dorkulon]

20. I'd just like to point out that's not his mugshot, as was reported on some blog.

It's his driver's license photo. So all the "look at his lack of remorse" comments on these threads are not accurate. Of course the kid's fucked in the head regardless, just wanted to let all know.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

28. Thanks for that information

the photo has been misrepresented, and I think a lot of folks have jumped to conclusions because of that.

[tomreedtoon]

30. Star of the next horror/slasher movie.

You do realize that the bastards who make sadistic horror movies use these guys as heroes, right? Robert Bloch found out about Ed Gein, a man who killed and skinned many people and kept a corpse in his basement, and used it as the basis for the book Psycho which became the popular Hitchcock movie.

Child killers, rapist murderers and cannibals have become America's movie heroes. Freddy Krueger, Jason Voorhes, the Terminator and Dr. Giggles. And this kid knows that right now, someone out there is basing the next horror franchise on HIS life. Of course he's smiling.

You can put the kid in jail or sentence him to ten years of swimming the Mississippi while wearing fifty pounds of chains. It won't matter, because you cannot kill him. Hollywood, and the sadism inside every one of you, will keep him alive forever.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

32. Maybe not throw away the key

but get him to a psychiatrist and give him help right away! This behavior could be the result of mental illness or it could be a cry for attention as the young man tries to sort out the ramifications of his parent's divorce. Could also be learned behavior-- do others in the family show a low regard for the lives of animals and pets? We just don't know. But I think the judge was wise in this case to get him a psych evaluation. If the eval comes back saying this kid has mental or emotional problems, I think the sentence should be to place him in a mental facility until such time as these problems can be eradicated. If it is found that they can't, perhaps he can be taught methods of control--and then placed on close supervision when released back into society.

[SOS]

44. Good points, but does psychiatry have limits in cases like this?

Dahmer was killing dogs in his teens and killed his first human victim at age 18.
Had Dahmer been caught in 1978, would a psychiatric intervention have helped?

These are very difficult issues. Clearly our society should try to help someone like this, but in cases like Dahmer and Bundy they may be simply irredeemable.
It's so hard to come to a productive solution. On one hand we should try to help and rehabilitate this kid. One the other hand, you don't want your daughter going out on a date with him either.

Maybe a secure psychiatric facility is the place for him until they can determine if he's capable of reform.
If not, they'll have to keep him there to protect the rest of us.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

71. And your points are good as well

They must give this young man a thorough examination so they can determine if he is just badly mixed up because of divorce issues, or if he is a potential serial killer.

[old mark]

34. If he is indeed found to be a sociopath, locking him up IS the

main "treatment" available. I worked with several adult sociopaths - murderers found guilty but insane- who were institutionalized for most of their adult lives. Some were pending release to a lesser institution, but they will never be out of a locked and constantly supervised situation, and they will be given injected medication for life.

They don't "get better", not ever.


mark

[izquierdista]

39. Psychiatry is a backwards science

They don't even understand what they are talking about, much less how to treat it. Internal medicine has pretty well got cause and effect figured out when it comes to the other major organs, but with the brain, it's like a bunch of apes pawing at a monolith -- they are a LONG way from understanding.

[old mark]

69. Sociopathy is thought to be a defect in the brain itself rather than a

disease.
I have worked in different institutions with sociopaths for about 13 years. There really is as little to be done to "cure" them as there is to "cure" serial rapists. The "treatment" for the latter consists of group therapy and continuous supervision, possibly with some medication.
Sociopaths about the same, but they don't seem to respond well to group therapy, in my view. They are completely manipulative and always looking for victims.
It is not so much science's fault - there is really little to do with these people, and they have no desire to cooperate with anything that may change them.

mark

[izquierdista]

70. Devil's Island?

If there is no cure, then isolation is probably the best thing to do. There have to be some uninhabited islands someplace to put them -- ones where they can't get off.

[old mark]

74. There is also the de-institutionalization movement aimed at setting a

maximum time limit that any person can be kept in an institution. They seem to be applying this reagardless of any criminal acts. There are places in "the community" which means in the real world that will take sociopaths with serious criminal backgrounds, usually provided they are placed on injected medication for some time with good results berore they are discharged from the hospital.
Usually this is a large house in the country - sometimes in the suburbs - with a live-in staff apartment, and 24-7 staffing, with 4 "consumers" or more depending. They usually also have a central office with an on-call staff in case of emergency.
I worked in a similar house with a different type of clientele - it sucks. I had days when I was the only staff person in the house, or when the other guy was 4 hours late, or when no one answered when one of the clients attacked another client's visitor.

But again, these rules are made by politicians in the various state legislatures, and I am sure they have everyone's best interests in mind...

mark

[Captain Hilts]

40. Don't forget the young woman in NYC who baked the cat. nt

[LiberalFighter]

42. The Dog Whisperer needs to work on the guy.

Cesar would be most effective using the bite on the kid and also the kick. Since it is a human Cesar would have to have bite and kick harder.

[SKKY]

45. Self-deleted dupe

[SKKY]

46. I once worked for a guy who had this bumper sticker on his truck...

..."Cat. The other white meat." When I see something like this, I half expect it to be him.

[MicaelS]

51. Seen that bumper sticker, too

It's a way some folks tweak cat zealots. Cat zealots being those who think cats are equivalent to, or more important than humans. And before you ask, I don't have ANY bumper stickers on my car. That way I don't have to worry about pissing off some loon.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

47. He definitely needs to spend some hard time to think about what he did.

Felt the same way about the kids who went around beating up homeless people and videotaping it, with one of them being beaten to death.

[msongs]

48. sounds like a good candidate for the war in Afghanistan nt

[superduperfarleft]

53. Why is it that whenever animals are tortured and killed...

the main concern seems to be whether or not they will soon move on to humans, and a lot less about the fact that the poor cats he skinned suffered horribly before they died? I'm more sympathetic to the cat he actually did kill than an imaginary human he may or may not kill at sometime in the future.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

57. I am sad about the cats too

[MicaelS]

62. I think you're more sympathetic to animals that humans, period.

A signature tells a lot about a member. Yours says volumes. :puke:

[superduperfarleft]

64. Your concern is noted.

Hope you feel better soon.

[Mari333]

76. humans are animals. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. It's also a weird kind of mythology to make the automatic connection

Everybody, of course, is an "expert" on the so-called category of the "sociopath." Thanks, Investigation Discovery, for your contribution to general pseudo-scientific nonsense!

[islandmkl]

56. let the judicial 'process' take care of this punk...in the meantime maybe the judge will re-think...

"...and he smiled again when the judge said he should be kept separate from other inmates because he might be a danger to others or himself."...and let the little bastard deal with some boys in the jailhouse until his evaluation period gets completed. I mean, after all, why should this kid have preferential treatment? He should be OK in the general population, shouldn't he? He's going to be out in the public general population soon enough...let him experience the society of incarceration at its fullest.

Yeah, i know...that will not help him get 'cured'...just like some cancers...some things have to get cut out...

if anyone doubts the basic psych problem here, consider not only torturing and killing of the cats, but his participation in the 'find the killer' website...there was a lot more going on there than just joy-killing little animals...

like i said the other day, send him down here to St. Croix and just put him in a room with some centipedes...he'll have to sleep...sometime....

[Common Sense Party]

77. He's more of a dog person, I guess.

I hate people like this. We had a case here locally a couple years back where some jackass put his girlfriend's weiner dog in the oven. They need serious penalties, as do child abusers.