Those who are denouncing Letterman's joke here need to remember this

[Ken Burch]

Whatever you think of that joke(and, frankly, Dave could've come up with a better one) if you think that you need to denounce it because "the other side could go after the Obama daughters if we don't", you need to remember this:

The Right will go after the Obama daughters or anything else(they'll probably find a way to bash his mother-in-law for living in the WH, too)NO MATTER WHAT.

The other side doesn't DO "fair play". They don't lay off just because we do.

So there's no point in even trying to appease them on this.

[katandmoon]

1. But they don't get CALLED on it.

[FiveGoodMen]

38. Because if they do, they just ignore it.

We need to stop worrying about criticism from the other side.

[madeline_con]

2. Everyone knew which daughter he was talking about.

It's been discussed that his writers should have researched how many daughters she had, and which were at the ball game. that was the real mistake.

He fucked up and the frightwing jumped on it.

[Bucky]

34. "should have researched"

If you're making topical jokes for a living, knowing the ground your jokes are covering is a pretty basic requirement.

[sandnsea]

3. They said Michelle's ancestors were apes

Helloooo?? Where's the 24-7 media coverage on that?

[kath]

13. It's been all over the news? Haven't you heard?

bitter, bitter :sarcasm:

my hatred for these right wing fuckers and their Noise Machine is boundless.

[Rebubula]

43. Heck...

....ALL OF OUR ANCESTORS WERE APES!!!

Michelle's, mine, yours, George W (OK...maybe not him, he is more akin to a lizard)...etc

[OhioChick]

4. You're right. n/t

[customerserviceguy]

5. All I've heard about Michelle Obama's mother living in the WH are

standard mother-in-law jokes, nothing particular to this situation.

At the point in time when the wingnuts go after the Obama daughters, you have a case. Until then, you don't.

[EFerrari]

14. How old are you? They went after Amy Carter and Chelsea Clinton.

They are, unlike Letterman, scum. He was joking; they wanted to hurt someone.

[customerserviceguy]

29. I don't seem to recall any sexual innuendos

regarding Amy Carter (yes, I'm plenty old enough to remember her, and the Johnson daughters, as well) and the only smears I remember about Chelsea Clinton were the ones on the right wing sites about Webster Hubbell being her "real" father. I don't recall any late night comedians picking up on that, however.

[EOTE]

37. Amy Carter didn't get knocked up at 17.

And if she had, you bet your ass they would have gone after her viciously. Chelsea Clinton didn't either, but that didn't stop them from smearing her like crazy. For Limbaugh, 13 wasn't too early to start going after her looks. Hypocrisy, thy name is GOP.

[customerserviceguy]

40. One thing Amy Carter had going for her

was that the Internet hadn't been invented yet. Yes, they did label Chelsea as homely, but there were not jokes about her sexual activity.

Let us hope that the Obama daughters fare as well for the next seven and a half years.

[EOTE]

41. There weren't jokes about her sexual activity because she didn't give them any ammo.

You can bet your ass that if Chelsea had gotten herself knocked up or provided even the smallest bit of fodder to use, they would have gone after her hardcore for that. Even as low key as she tried to play out her child hood, they still went after here. The GOP is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

[obliviously]

6. Non issue

Letterman apologized it is now irrelevant move on.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. K&R

you're absolutely right.

[Trocadero]

8. they need to remember this: I DON'T GIVE A DAMN about ANYTHING PALIN RELATED

[noamnety]

9. You could also look at it this way:

The left likes to present itself as some kind of champion for treating women with respect, and likes to portray the right as treating women in sexist ways.

When we defend sexism and misogyny, we become massive hypocrites. It's not that we expect the right to abide by a set of rules of what's "right" - it's that we claim we care about gay rights, racial equity, women's rights, but then we decide which ones to toss out the window for the purpose of scoring political points.

Quoting myself from a comment I made elsewhere once: "It takes a big leap for men to confront other men about sexism, because it’s one of the ways men bond, by objectifying or trashing women. It’s also a big leap for women to confront men over it. We risk losing our status as “one of the guys” if we speak out. Once we lose that status, we become one of the targets.

It’s an even bigger leap to confront it when the target is a woman we don’t respect or admire - one of those “enemy” women. That’s a tougher test of character, the willingness to speak out against sexism when we have absolutely nothing to gain from doing so - when we aren’t defending one of our own."

[Cresent City Kid]

10. I agree

Whatever values you have about sexism, racism, or anything else, apply them evenly. If you thought the joke was no big deal, or offensive, don't use the political party of the victim as a litmus test. Our humanity should trancend politics.

[emilyg]

12. +1

[EFerrari]

15. I need to be shown the page in the handbook where it says I need to have more respect for Palin

than she has for herself, for her daughters or for other women including me.

[TahitiNut]

18. That would be a fascinating handbook.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

19. Maybe mine just doesn't have that chapter about rewarding anti-social behavior.

:shrug:

[noamnety]

23. You needn't have any respect for her

just as you need not have any respect for Colin Powell to recognize that making ethnic slurs against him diminishes you more than it does him.

[EFerrari]

24. I have zero problem with Dave's accurate description of Palin.

It's her look, she's worked hard for it and deserves the full credit for it.

[earth mom]

11. Exactly. The rethugs play so dirty that it's a wonder they aren't literally covered in dirt 24/7.

:puke:

[notesdev]

16. That living with M-i-L thing is weird

Unless she's essentially playing the role of full-time babysitter, it's just damned odd. I don't know anyone who would voluntarily have their mother-in-law live with them, absent some desperate need.

[Hannah Bell]

20. i don't see anything odd about it. especially when they have such a huge house.

only americans think living with extended family is weird.

[notesdev]

22. This is America

... so if it's weird only to Americans, it is still weird when it happens in America.

[Heidi]

26. I'm an American. I don't find it weird at all, regardless of where it happens.

Do you find it odd that Latin immigrants to the US many times live together as extended families? I don't.

[Ken Burch]

21. It's only weird to you if you aren't from a cultural background that values extended families.

It a lot of African American, Hispanic/Latino American, Asian American and First Peoples' communities, it's common to have several generations living together. It's just that our previous presidents were all privileged white men so we hadn't been used to seeing this in the White House.

[Heidi]

27. :thumbsup: (nt)

[Heidi]

25. There's nothing at all "weird" about it.

And in all of the cases I know (here in Switzerland and in Italy), extended families has little to do with need but plenty to do with an appreciation for family, cooperation, raising the family's children together, that sort of thing.

If you don't know anyone who appreciates those values, perhaps you should get out more.

[madeline_con]

28. In much of the world, extended family members live together.

Would you rather they ship her off to a "home"?

Edited to add: Babysitter? As if the WH doesn't have enough staff to watch two girls. :eyes:

[polmaven]

31. To be fair...

Of course the White House staff is sufficient to watch the two girls, but I would imagine that, with all of the traveling their parents do, it is comforting to them to have their grandmother there with them...someone they know and love and someone who knows and loves them.

I find it not only not weird, but very impressive.

[notesdev]

36. But oddly enough

in this case, the extended family did NOT live together until they moved into the White House. They lived separately back in Chicago. This strikes me as someone opportunistically taking advantage of the situation rather than living out some traditional extended-family household.

[madeline_con]

39. They lived in the same city. When the Obamas moving to D.C.

I'm sure they didn't want to leave Michelle's mother alone.

[ColbertWatcher]

17. Well said.

Don't forget that this tactic is very similar to that Texas election that Rove was involved in where he planted a bugging device in his own office and blamed the opponent (Rove wasn't running for any office, but was an adviser of some sort).

The accusation had no basis in reality and was staged for the sole purpose of making Rove (or the candidate Rove was working for) seem like a sympathetic victim of someone else's bad judgment. Which is exactly what Palin is doing now.

[jasmeel]

30. just having this discussion is a win for asshat repubs

[noamnety]

32. just having the discussions might be a win for feminists

There have been a lot of times where I've wished someone would hold the lefties accountable for sexism, but we all knew the right wasn't going to do it. And the left - much as we complain about circular firing squads - rarely calls their own out for sexism.

I didn't do it, but there were times in the last 8 years when I daydreamed about logging into FR to ask them to hold DUers accountable for sexism, and post examples. (The one time I posted there on another topic I was banned after one post, I joined in a prayer thread for Bush, but I guess they didn't like my prayer. :) )

I still kind of like the idea of asking them to do that, though - to nail us (DU but also politicians and folks in the media). In some ways them running Palin had a potential silver lining because them running a woman brought out the worst in us, into the daylight where it can be seen and examined, and it gave them motivation to start examining their own ways of dealing with women in politics. Whether or not they learn from it remains to be seen, but I welcome someone acting as watchdog on that issue, if that makes sense.

[Bucky]

33. Here's a quick ethics lesson for you.

You don't avoid doing an unethical thing because someone might do it back to you in retaliation.

You avoid doing an unethical thing because it's wrong.

The reason to not act like Republican smear artists isn't that they might countersmear--as you say, they probably will. But crossing that line doesn't stop it, either. It merely drags you down to their level and surrenders the moral high ground.

[Apollo11]

35. It's not about appeasing the right-wing hate machine

It's about respecting our fellow human beings, and living by the standards we set for ourselves.

It's about not just saying that we are better than the right-wing hate machine. But proving it by our actions.

I bet Dick Cheney would say that there is no point in respecting the human rights of so-called "enemy combatants", because there is no way to appease Al Quaida.

Just sayin' ... :eyes:

[w8liftinglady]

42. let's not forget-mccain's joke about Chelsea

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html

[Orsino]

44. If the other side would limit their denoucements to a few Internet message boards...

...this thread wouldn't exist.

I don't think DU is in any danger of generating further support for these MSM memes.