Please don't tell me that the 2000 election was stolen

[CreekDog]

and then defend the current Iranian election and expect me to believe anything you say.

do you see the contradiction?

:rant:

[get the red out]

1. agree!!!

We were just too busy watching sports and reality TV to act up about it.

[FLAprogressive]

2. it seems that the outrage is the other way around. People who thought 2000 was legit are upset over

Iran.

[Lerkfish]

5. at least as far as repukes go, yes.

[CreekDog]

6. what about DU'ers?

lots of DU'ers that dispute the 2000 election are also not convinced the Iranian election was fair.

[Bicoastal]

7. What are you trying to say?

Which people here on DU, or which Democrats currently in power, are claiming that either the 2000 US election or the 2009 Iran election is fair?

I think you're just preaching to the choir, frankly.

[CreekDog]

12. one example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5855548

[EFerrari]

18. That OP is not a defense of a bad election process.

It's a theory about the deep politics. That's something else entirely.

[Lerkfish]

3. I haven't been, but I would point out that I trust no election completely

anywhere.

that having been said, If the neocons use this allegedly misrun election as a reason to regime change Iran, then that is a worse evil by far.

[liberalmuse]

4. Man, I miss all the good stuff.

I haven't seen one single post here on DU where people are actually defending the legitimacy of the Iranian election or Ahmadinejad. Is my filter that clogged up? (hits side of head hoping to dislodge ear wax).

[monmouth]

8. Hahaha, actually my head sort of hurts after reading that....n/t

[CreekDog]

13. here:

"everyone on DU should watch this documentary. It shows the wide spread of support amongst the poor for amahdhenaj (sp)? the wealthy, intellectuals and young was for the Mousavi. However, Iran is a very poor country. I don't know, I have doubts now. I think the people Iran really voted for this guy."

[lpbk2713]

9. You'll never hear me deny that an election can be stolen.

I was a Floridian then just as I am now and I know better. If an election can be
successfully stolen and covered up for years in the USA it can happen anywhere.

[Old and In the Way]

10. Thanks for stating the obvious.

Seriously, you're not going to find an argument with this post. I infer from your statements that you're pretty much prepared to believe anything we (the DU community) tell you.

[CreekDog]

14. my post should tell you that i don't believe anything DUers tell me

and that i get mad when people try to tell me stuff that flatly contradicts other stuff they say.

[Old and In the Way]

16. "i don't believe anything DUers tell me"

Then please share with us why you post here. :rofl:

[CreekDog]

17. i don't automatically believe anything DUers tell me

how's that?

[Old and In the Way]

24. Much better!

:-)

[JDPriestly]

11. I'm in the undecided column on Iran.

I was watching the election here on the ground in 2000 and reading the election laws of Florida. I know that election was stolen. I could make a judgment because I had enough, if not all of the facts. My judgment was confirmed on September 11, 2001 when the newspaper consortium that reviewed the election results published them.

But, I don't know the facts about the Iranian elections. And frankly, I don't like either candidate. I don't have a favorite, and even if I did, I have heard a lot of opinions and seen some plausible arguments suggesting the election was a fraud, but I don't have enough clarity on it yet. Show me the real facts about the election results and not just one poll but all the polling done before the election. I have heard that some pretty unbiased polling numbers show that the announced result could be correct.

With Bush/Gore 2000, the election results were incredibly close. With this 2009 Iranian election, however, the results show a near landslide for Ahmadabad. It should be easier to find where cheating occurred if it did. And then if it is determined that there was cheating, the problem will be whether the fraud could have made enough of a difference to change the outcome.

As I recall, it was evident in the Bush/Kerry 2004 election that there were irregularities in various states in terms of the election procedures but the question was whether the irregularities were significant enough to change the outcome. In this Iranian election, the irregularities would have to be massive to have achieved this result. So it should be relatively easy to figure out what the scam was if there was one. If there is no real evidence of a scam, the announced results are probably accurate.

[CreekDog]

19. You're saying an election is innocent until proven guilty?

when you say: "If there is no real evidence of a scam, the announced results are probably accurate."

which is kind of ridiculous because there are various ways of holding an election so that it is legitimate. if you nullify those controls as was done here, you won't have evidence of a flawed election which is why you won't have evidence of a clean one either.

your standard is in short --preposterous.

[JDPriestly]

25. I have since learned that the results were announced in a very short

time after the election although the ballots were allegedly counted by hand. I also heard that the results were announced with only a portion of votes counted but that the percentages of the votes for each candidate did not change when the rest of the votes were counted. If those facts are true, then there was fraud.

[Arkana]

15. The Iranian election theft was even more blatant than Bush's.

But we CANNOT do anything. It's a foreign election and we can't interfere, especially seeing as how it's a) Iran, and b) part of a region where most people hate our guts.

[EFerrari]

20. Most Iranian people do not hate our guts.

That's RW bs.

But, I'm glad the president is being measured. He's hitting exactly the right notes, thank goodness.

[Arkana]

22. Not necessarily Iran--but would you agree that the US isn't popular in the region?

i.e. the Middle East?

Doing anything that might unnecessarily inflame tensions there would be bad.

But he's already indicating that he's going to react the right way, so I'm not worried.

[EFerrari]

23. There is a lot of anomosity there, yes.

And given that our government has been killing people right and left, can you blame them?

Iran is not Pakistan. We have had the good will of the Iranian people even long after that idiot Bush started to trash them. And who knows why.

There is good feeling that Obama can build on and it's so great to see him doing exactly that. :)

[Rex]

21. The 2000 election was stolen, sucks but did happen.

And I didn't defend the current Iranian election. Repukes suck and have to steal things in order to get their way, doesn't matter what country they are in.