Obama lacks votes for healthcare reform

[Rex_Goodheart]

Sure, fewer Democrats are, but there are a lot of pigs in both parties at the trough:

http://www.reuters.com/article/joeBiden/idUSN14133527

[Cleita]

1. Obama has to lean on those Dems beholden to the insurance and pharma

companies. It will be a test of his leadership to see if he can muscle this through Congress. Also, that votes excuse is getting old. Howard Dean said it only takes 51 votes to pass the Senate. It just isn't filibuster or veto proof. Let them filibuster and I don't think Obama will veto a bill that has passed both the House and the Senate.

[Marr]

2. Whose fault is that? He's got the bully pulpit. If he wanted those votes, he could get them.

The people of this country want national healthcare. This isn't like selling a war that most people don't want-- this is a national program that practically everyone wants. The political pressure a president could put on Congress would be immense.

[FrenchieCat]

15. It's the fucking media's fault, that's who!

IT appears that Obama could talk till he is blue in the face, and you'd still have Bill Maher calling him a "celebrity", and folks just loving it...while the media gets busy in disinforming the citizenry! :eyes:

[Dr Fate]

21. The media refuses to show Obama saying one thing or another on TV ?

I disagree- when Obama speaks, people listen- and he has no trouble getting on TV, and would have no trouble getting in the papers either.

The old "but the media wont play it if he says it" excuse was not an acceptable excuse for DEM inaction when Bush was in office- and it's certainly not a good one now either.

I'm not saying that Obama should take all the blame at all- but I disagree with you that "the media" could really keep ALL Obama quotes, speeches and press conferences from being heard. If Obama wanted to go on TV and take congress to task, he could do so.

He could easily get on ANY interview show, and could EASILY get any Op-Ed he writes printed, etc. When there is a will, there is way.

If Obama wanted to name names and target people in congress, the media would not really be able to keep him from doing it.

Sure- the media can lie- but Obama can get out there and tell the truth anytime he wants. He can even point out exactly where the media and the conservatives are lying, if need be.

I'm done with excuses- if the media is lying about Obama, then I need to here Obama calling them out, as opposed to all the old excuses that I've been hearing since Bush.

[madrchsod]

3. lbj found the votes...

obama should tell reid and pelosi to get the job done or step down. i don`t look for that to happen.

[OHdem10]

5. Our Leaders tell those Democrats they can vote their conscience

and vote their district.

IMO, if these Conservative Democrats really wanted to, they
could have serious meetings with their constituents and bring
the majority of constituents with them. These Conservatives
(Dems) are for the most part PRO-Business Democrats and I mean
more for Business than for their consituents.

As Democrats, we do have some responsibility to Business. However,
The GOP is the Party of Business. Therefore, Democrats should
be more concerned than some for welfare of the People.

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. Reid and Pelosi work for the Democrats in the Senate and House, not the President

[bertman]

8. Reid and Pelosi work for the highest bidders, not their constituents.

[mike_c]

9. exactly....

:puke:

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. As long as the majority of Democrats in the House & Senate are happy with them, they keep their jobs

[TahitiNut]

20. Wrong. Reid is selected by members of the Democratic caucus, BUT ...

... Pelosi is selected by the entire House. There's a DIFFERENCE between Speaker and Majority Leader.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. The Democratic Caucus met beforehand and decided that Pelosi would be Speaker:

Democrats elect Pelosi as first female House leader

AP, WASHINGTON
Saturday, Nov 18, 2006, Page 1

Democrats on Thursday embraced Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi as the first woman House speaker in history, then quickly snubbed her, selecting a rival as her lieutenant against her wishes.

Congressman Steny Hoyer was chosen as House majority leader in a 149-86 secret-ballot vote. Pelosi had pushed for Congressman John Murtha for the No. 2 post in the House.

The balloting marked a personal triumph for Hoyer, but also a snub to Pelosi, moments after the rank and file unanimously selected her to become speaker, or leader, of the House of Representatives when it convenes in January.

"Let the healing begin," Pelosi said after Hoyer had eased past Murtha, who is a prominent opponent of the war in Iraq.

more: http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2006/11/18/2003336811

[Dr Fate]

19. Reid, unless he agrees with the Republicans, needs to get off his ass and FIND the votes.

I dont give a crap what he has to do behind close doors to get it. Twist arms, threaten to expose their scandals, pull commitee postions, take away parking spaces- whatever it takes.

If he cant get the votes, then he is personally responsible. If Obama fails to use the bully pulpit to the max, then he is responsible as well.

If he can "find" votes for billionare bail outs and wars based on lies, then he better "find" some god-dmaned votes for the good guys too.

In other words, the worn out DEM excuses from the Bush era are useless, so I'm not sure why people are still straining to come up with them.

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. Perhaps the people he answers to, the Democrats in the Senate, don't want him to do so

[Dr Fate]

31. So much for being the Majority "Leader."

Then again-maybe you have a point-maybe he simply does whatever the lobby-rich, conservative Democrats tells him too- too bad for the majority of the public that disagrees with them.

[Dr Fate]

24. Reid and Pelosi *supposedly* work for voters, as does the President.

And nothing is stopping the President from an organized media campaign that leans heavily on either of them.

Excuses are not helpful or acceptable anymore.

I doubt voters will fault Obama at all if he were to use the bully pulpit more than he has, and I doubt that voters give a crap about any excuses that site parlimentary structure, etc.

[4lbs]

7. He's easily got the votes in the House. It's the Senate that's the problem.

.

[QC]

16. BHO ain't no LBJ. Johnson, for all his faults, believed in some things

and was willing to take risks to achieve them.

[PM Martin]

Same with Trudeau

[katandmoon]

4. Of course. This is his out.

[Toucano]

10. Funny. I thought he had 69,498,215 votes for health care reform.

Or do only corporations get to vote?

[ThomWV]

11. Make it a single payer system and I'll call my Senator, otherwise fuck it.

[Chisox08]

12. I'm sick of this line

We don't have the votes. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!
If we don't get single payer Health Care. The next time they are up for elections vote them out.

[QC]

13. Are presidents no longer allowed to lean on Congress?

i could be wrong, but I seem to remember them doing it in the past.

In fact, I seem to recall Obama twisting quite a few arms to get the investment bankers' welfare bill passed.

Why not on things like, oh, I dunno, health care.

[Dr Fate]

22. He is allowed to- but all you will get is excuses for why he can't or shouldn't.

Sure- Obama can get on TV or in the papers anytime he wants- he can name names and make threats if he wants- but dont be suprised if all we will get is excuses for why it wont happen.

It's clear that even after 8 years of Bush, many DEMS are still in the "let's make excuses for why we can't oppose conservatives" mode as opposed to the "Let's make it clear that we will no longer accept the same old excuses" mode...

We are so used to making excuses for why Republicans and conservatives MUST get their way that I doubt we will ever get out of it.

[QC]

23. We have to keep our powder dry! n/t

[Dr Fate]

25. Sure- or Bush/Cheney will black mail DEMS or send them anthrax!!!!

Or call them unpatriotic-or maybe the media will say mean things about us again.

We need to play chess, not checkers, it's not like we control the executive and legislative branch or something- we have to wait until DEMS are in power...errrr- wait....What year is this?

But seriously, as long as everyone keeps comming up with all these great excuses, the 2010 midterms will be a sinch!!!!

"Sure, we didnt get it done- but- look at all the great excuses we have!"

[QC]

27. I think the 2010 midterms might be an ugly shock.

To say nothing of 2012.

If Dems keep defending the status quo like this, climbing into bed with every monied interest that gives them a second look, they will pay a high price for it.

[Dr Fate]

33. It does not have to be that way...

...hope you are wrong.

My point on this thread is that we need to get out of the excuse mode of the Bush years. It was not even a good strategy then...

[dysfunctional press]

14. i guess that being fucked in the ass will remain a pre-existing condition for most americans...

and congress isn't willing to pay for any lubricants.

[Romulox]

18. This is an "enemy of my enemy moment".

Thank god there aren't enough votes for this insurance industry welfare bill!

[Better Believe It]

26. We need 51 votes. What's the problem?

[Freddie Stubbs]

30. Not all of the Democrats in the Senate support a public option

[Dr Fate]

32. Especially the ones who get those SWEET checks from the Health-Profit Industry.

Once again, the usual conservative Democrats locking arms with the GOP to fuck over the voters & the public.

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. Are there any Democrats in the Senate who have't recieved any money from the healthcare industry?

:shrug:

[Dr Fate]

39. That's our excuse? Obvioulsy I'm talking about the DEMS who oppose a public option...

...and agree more with the Republicans & lobbyists.

Democrats who would support a public option, are not a problem-it's the conservative DEMS who insist form the start that it be "off the table" who are the problem.

If a DEM takes money from a lobbyist, but still listens to and agrees with the voters, then there is less of a problem.

Some recieve more bribe-er I mean lobby money than others, some act on it more than others- but you knew that, and you certainly cannot refute it.

Interesting observation/excuse- but you did not refute that the Conservative DEMS seem to care more about what lobbyists want than what would benefit the majority of voters.

"All the Democrats take the Health Profit bribe money-what's the big deal?" will be a pretty lame talking point if we have to explain why DEMS did not get it done to moderates & swing voters.

[Individualist]

40. The problem is DLC

[Karmadillo]

34. Be patient. He's going to lead on this issue after he wins another

term. It's all part of the plan. Don't rock the boat and spoil things.

[LWolf]

36. He seems willing to pull of the gloves to get votes when it comes to war funding. nt

[Karmadillo]

37. But, but, but that's the paying attention to what he does fallacy. You're supposed to pay attention

only to what he says. He's said some nice things about health care. Isn't that enough?

[LWolf]

42. Of course; the nation runs on propaganda.

Actions mean nothing, as long as the soundbites are great, and your side is "winning."

[Echo In Light]

38. The difference is who benefits. Fuck morals when it comes to feeding the War Machine

[LWolf]

41. Interesting pattern to track.

When it benefits the powerful, and when it benefits the rest of us. Who is the bully pulpit supporting?