Support for Ahmadinejad is not progressive

[Kurska]

The CIA is not funding the protesters, this isn't a american conspiray. Right now some very frightened kids are being beaten and murdered in college dorms and you're a hemisphere away from any danger.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/globe-freelancer-detained-beaten/article1181792/

[Oregone]

1. Who supports Ahmackmeadinabumeadhad?

I wouldn't spend two bucks to see him in a donkey show

I feel sorry for the kids caught in the middle of this mess. Too many are forgetting about them.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

35. He's annoying

[anonymous171]

2. If this were a CIA job Ahmadinejad would be dead already. nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

5. More likely Mossad than CIA

Because NuttyYahoo NEEDED Ahmadinnerjacket to stay in there to get the war he's been drooling over for years.

Except I don't see Mossad being so god damn sloppy in rigging an election. They would have made it less obvious.

[anonymous171]

15. Yeah, the rigging was way too obvious.

Seems more like desperate attempt to hang onto power by the current government than anything else.

[Oregone]

22. Ummmm....except the Supreme Leader can overturn election results.

They are symbolic to start with. If it was desperate attempt to keep power, it was not only sloppy, but not even necessary according to their constitution. The results aren't even binding in a normal situation

With that said, Ahkminamamisahotfuckdijah is still an asshole

[Just-plain-Kathy]

31. This morning on one of the Sunday morning news shows, they showed news clips

of the protests in Iran. They also showed a campaign rally for Ahmadinejad. Comparing the crowds were like comparing the crowd sizes of McCain and Obama's rally's.

Comparably few people were protesting.

[rollin74]

38. that might have something to do with

police and paramilitaries allowing people to freely express support for Ahmadinejad while brutally cracking down on people who are protesting. It's not exactly a level playing field in terms of risk to the participants.

demonstrate in favor of Ahmadinejad= authorities leave you alone and in peace
protest against election results= very real possibility of being beaten senseless by government thugs and/or arrested...or worse

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[Sebastian Doyle]

53. Anti-semitic, my ass

Anti paranoid lunatic determined to start World War III? Definitely.

Of course NuttyYahoo didn't win his election either. Still wondering how that piece of shit was allowed to get away with that when Livni had more votes.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

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[Sebastian Doyle]

57. Back off

I don't appreciate being called a fucking anti-semite, as I've never said anything that could remotely be considered as such.

I can't stand NuttyYahoo. I couldn't stand Chimpy either. Both are warmongering pieces of shit.
And yeah Mossad is a vile, evil agency that stirs up a lot of shit, but they're no worse than the CIA. Probably actually better at what they do, because the Bush Crime Family isn't running the show.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

59. I'm sorry. You're right. The Jews stole the Iranian election.

Please forgive me for doubting your wisdom.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

9. That depends, doesn't it?

[anonymous171]

17. On what? The CIA has a pretty good track record.

They also prefer military coups to democratic elections. This just doesn't fit their MO.

[EFerrari]

23. Neither of these guys is anything to write home about.

I can imagine national security arguments for supporting either of them. The so called reformer might shake up the status quo for a minuite, Ahmadinejad might spur destabilization. It really does depend on what your aim is. :shrug:

[JI7]

30. it's not about love of Mousavi, it's about getting rid of the guy in office now

Mousavi was the guy who was there that people turned to support in order to get rid of the incumbant.

[EFerrari]

33. That's your understanding and you may be right.

Yours may not be CIA's or State's or whoever.

[JI7]

36. i'm talking about the people of Iran

[EFerrari]

39. I agree with you that they are not being well served. That much is clear

[marmar]

3. But are people who suspect a CIA conspiracy "supporting" Ahmadinejad?

Isn't that a rather intellectually dishonest argument?

[Oregone]

8. You are with us or against us!

[marmar]

12. Yup. The OP had precisely that feel......

n/t

[JI7]

10. isn't the CIA conspiracy stuff dishonest ? there is nothing to show it

i think there are people who get defensive about Ahmadinjed because he is critical of America .

[Oregone]

13. One conspiracy theory is as valid as the next

[JI7]

16. well, yeah, that is true "as valid"

[Oregone]

25. Which isn't much at this point.

[Posteritatis]

11. Some of them certainly are, yes. (nt)

[EFerrari]

4. If you think your government isn't trying to turn this situation to its advantage

I don't know what to tell you. And you have no idea what CIA is funding, do you?

But knowing that business as usual is happening is not support for Ahmadinejad. It's just acknowledging that there is more than one thing happening here.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. ...

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[EFerrari]

29. I promise you, if I could possibly support this guy, you would know.

There would be no guessing. lol

[JI7]

14. it's the same thing, people want to look for conspiracy theories

because it makes them feel good .

[EFerrari]

18. I guess. But, it would be weird if CIA wasn't in Iran

it's their job to go into places like that especially at these moments.

Who knows how many fingers are in this pie. My bet is, a LOT. Not only CIA but also State and who knows who from neighboring states, Russia and from EU members like France.

[Oregone]

20. I feel like if they aren't behind this, I want a refund on my taxes,

Because they sure as hell aren't pulling their weight! What, are they too busy rigging the Canadian powerball lottery or something? Get those boots on the ground already.

Its not like I like their work. Its just nice to know they are working while on payroll, eh?

[EFerrari]

41. You don't have to invent a situation to exploit it n/t

[JI7]

24. does it matter ? you don't think people actually wanted change and voted for the other guy ?

[EFerrari]

28. No, not at all. I'm just pointing out that the Iranian people

probably have a lot of unwanted COMPANY right now. I'm not saying that's a good thing or that CIA or Rove started this. lol

[MADem]

6. The Midget Mayor of Teheran is an ASSHOLE. I have been saying this for years.

I've caught some shit here for that view, too. I wish my points didn't have to be driven home so violently, but what I've said has turned out to be true, on steroids--this guy is a shitheel-asshole. The venom of the snake!

Of course this isn't an American conspiracy. People are SICK of thirty years of BULLSHIT. They've had ENOUGH.

[Drunken Irishman]

21. He's the Middle East's Bush.

[JI7]

26. yup, both him and Bush needed each other to stay in power

the people actually like and trust Obama . the whole america is behind this isn't working without Bush or someone like him in power.

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. agreed! he even has the same smirking chimp look on his face!

There are two people in this world whose very countenance puts me in a bad mood, George W. Bush and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. OBVIOUSLY!! Much of my work and passion involves opposing U.S. policy in the Middle East

IT is the subject of at least 70% of my post and 70% of my entries in my Journal. But there is such a thing as intellectual honesty. Ahmadinejad represents some of the most reactionary forces in the region. This is reality.

He would be much more like the Middle Eastern Robert Mugabe than the Middle Eastern Nelson Mandela.

Still it must be said and said over and over again that nothing, absolutely nothing would harm the pro-democracy forces in Iran and strengthen the hardliners more than giving the impression that the pro-democracy forces are stooges for the United States. That would be the kiss of death for all those longing for democracy and reform in Iran and the Middle East. It would be about as helpful as the hardliner Iranian clerics endorsing President Obama and the Democratic Party - and would produce a very similar reaction from ordinary Iranians, who are after all a fiercely nationalist people.

[MADem]

32. Then the best thing to do is suggest he and Bush had a secret deal.

And he's taking dictatorial power so clumsily because Bush isn't around anymore to give him a foil, and Obama won't honor the deal where Mahmoud shakes his fist and Bush says "OOOOh, terra!" Someone should suggest that Bush paid him, they were secret allies, and then stick some money in a Swiss bank account, have the Swiss reveal that the account belonged to Mahmoud and it's now frozen because it's been determined to be "terra money."

That'll piss folk off across the Shi'a crescent! Paint the guy as a Bush Secret Spy!

Yes, it's far out, farfetched, silly.... you don't have to tell me. But it would be funny as hell to hoist the asshole on his own petard. And crazier things get believed in southwest asia.

[Hannah Bell]

55. no, it was reagan mousavi had a secret deal with.

"Mousavi was also involved in the secret "arms for US hostages in Lebanon" negotiations, sending Iranian envoys to meet with Reagan administration officials in the mid-1980s. These meetings, which congressional enquiries subsequently disclosed as part of the Iran-Contra affair are a chapter in U.S.-Iran relations that Republicans would like to forget as much as their Iranian counterparts."

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/6131

[MADem]

58. That makes him a hero, though--see, he made a good bargain with the

Great Satan, making him a wise and sharp trader, and lived to tell about it. It's not really a secret, either. The people are not upset about this, it wouldn't hurt him with them.

Bottom line: If Imam Khomeini said to do it, he was right. No one would dare criticize anything the Imam said to do.

But Khomeini wouldn't have (couldn't have) told The Dinner Jacket to cozy up with Bush. That's why a fantastic, Batboy story about Bush and his Iranian buddy would be so much fun. Enough people would believe it, that he and Bush had a deal where he shook his fist and Bush used the fist shaking to upset the American population. It would "fit" to them.

If you can't get rid of him, poison his reign.

I fear for the students--in three hours or so, we'll be hearing the crack of the baton on student skulls I fear.

[Hannah Bell]

60. right, hero.

there were plenty of people criticizing khomeni. now, & then.

[MADem]

64. Not in Iran there weren't. There still aren't.

I'm not talking about international opinion. They don't particularly care what the Great Shatan thinks about their Revolution. No one in Iran criticizes Imam Khomeini, outside of Evin Prison, anyway.

[scarletwoman]

34. I support telling the truth. The Western media is discrediting the Iranian election

for its own purposes. If people can't recognize by now how the process of demonization works ("Saddam is DANGEROUS!") then just watch, we will be herded into accepting an attack on Iran before long.

I'm sorry for those kids, they genuinely want more freedom, but Mousavi has served them very poorly by not calling on them to stand down. He's no angel, look up some history about him. He's part of the faction the wealthy elite -- why do you think our corporate overlords fawned over him so lovingly? Do you seriously think they give a shit about the Iranian people?

We only approve of democratic elections when they result in the "right" kind of winner -- someone who will cooperate with our imperial corporate government. If the people are so foolish as to vote for someone who displeases us, we will demonize the winner and discredit the result.

Why should we, sitting "a hemisphere away" assume we are getting the full truth about Iran from our OWN elites? Have we learned nothing about how this works by now?

sw

[JI7]

37. what does it matter what people outside of Iran think of Mousavi

the people there wanted him and voted for him.

i didn't see anyone here fawn over him . it's the iranian people who want him.

[scarletwoman]

44. Some people voted for him, more voted for Ahmedinejad.

No one here has one shred of proof that the election results were anything other than what the Iranian announced. Mousavi himself hasn't even filed an official protest asking for a recount.

[EFerrari]

45. I have no reason to believe the election results but look at this, sw.

The gun was photoshopped in. Look at the triangle between the gun barrel, the hand and the body.

Are we being diddled? Of course we are.

[scarletwoman]

47. Where is that photo supposedly from? I could swear I've seen it before, or one very like it.

In the photo I'm thinking of, the soldier was Israeli and the kids were Palestinian.

In any case, I just think that a bunch of Americans freaking out about the Iran election is of NO help to the Iranians whatsoever. Let them sort it out, it's not our country and it's not our place to approve or disapprove of how they conduct their elections.

sw

[EFerrari]

48. I don't know. It was posted here today with no link. n/t

[scarletwoman]

49. If that's the case, I call shenanigans. I'm pretty sure it's years old and that it's an I/P photo.

The Tehran police are beating up college kids with truncheons, not pointing guns at pre-schoolers.

sw

[EFerrari]

50. I looked at it in my graphics program. It's clearly photoshopped.

Look at the light triangle to the left of the hand. The gun was put into the shot.

[scarletwoman]

52. Yeah, I saw that. Like I said, I think it's an OLD photoshop. (nt)

[MADem]

65. Mir isn't "perfect" by a long shot, he's just better than Mahmoooooood.

Mir would open the nation to the west. Mahmoooooooooood would keep it insular, walled off, and in a perpetual state of agita--like Bush did.

[Douglas Carpenter]

42. the Middle Eastern media is pretty much saying the same thing as is almost everyone else

It would be hard to find more than just a very few of the strongest critics of American policy in the region who do not agree that the election was, at the very least riddle with fraud.

I've had Al Jazeera on constantly and they seem to think it probably was. I don't think that a news service that was twice bombed by the U.S. Air Force in two different wars are likely part of a conspiracy to spread anti-Iranian disinformation.

Actually there is almost unanimity among even the strongest critics of American policy that the election was most likely stolen or at the very least riddled with enormous fraud.

With only a few rare exceptions even the strongest critics of American policy in the Middle East are convinced this was a stolen election. What concerns some progressives most is that this stolen election will be used by the neocons and other reactionaries for retching up the rhetoric toward a military strike on Iran.

Absolutely nothing would harm the pro-democracy and pro-reform forces in Iran more than and play into the hands of the theocratic hardliners more than the appearance that the pro-democracy, pro-reform movement are stooges for the United States.

There was a good article today on Alternet by Steven Zunes. Also Juan Cole who strongly argued against and exposed the dishonest media propaganda that claimed that Ahmadinejad advocated launching a nuclear attack against Israel. Still Dr. Cole has come out very clearly in two different articles laying out the case that the election was likely stolen. Professor Cole has lived and studied in Iran and is fluent in Farsi and is an Iranian expert and a strong supporter of America establishing friendly relations with Iran.

Has the Election Been Stolen in Iran?

If it is true that Ahmadinejad's victory is fraudulent, it'll be a dream come true for those pushing a more confrontational approach with Iran.

By Stephen Zunes, AlterNet. Posted June 13, 2009.

Stephen Zunes is a professor of Politics and chair of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of San Francisco and serves as a senior policy analyst for Foreign Policy in Focus.

http://www.alternet.org/world/140626/has_the_election_been_stolen_in_iran/?page=1

"It is certainly not unprecedented for Western observers to miscalculate the outcome of an election in a country where pre-election polls are not as rigorous as Western countries, particularly when there is a clear bias towards a particular candidate. At the same time, the predictions of knowledgeable Iranian observers from various countries and from across the political spectrum were nearly unanimous in the belief that the leading challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi would defeat incumbent president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad decisively in yesterday’s presidential election, certainly in the runoff if not in the first round. This also appeared to be the assumption among independent observers in Iran itself.

So overwhelming were the signs of imminent Ahmadinejad defeat and so massive was the margin of his alleged victory, the only reasonable assumption was that there has been fraud on a massive scale. What polls did exist showed Mousavi leading by a clear majority and Ahmadinejad well under 40%, a margin roughly similar to what most analysts had suggested based on anecdotal evidence. Instead, the official results show Ahmadinejad winning by an overwhelming 63% of the vote. "

snip: "There are also more direct indications of fraud.

In past elections, there have been substantial variations in the vote of various candidates based on ethnicity and geography, but the official results show Ahmadinejad’s vote totals being relatively uniform across the country. Mousavi, an Azeri from the province of Azerbaijan who has been quite popular there, did poorly, according to official results. This is particularly striking since even minor candidates from that area had done disproportionately well in previous elections. Similarly, Mehdi Karoubi, the other reformist candidate and an ethnic Lur, supposedly fared poorly in his home province of Luristan. Nationally, Karoubi went from 17% in the 2005 election to less than 1% this year with no apparent reason for such a precipitous decline. Meanwhile, the much-despised Mohsen Rezaie, the other hardline candidate, allegedly got twice as many votes."

snip: "The stealing of the Iranian presidential elections is a dream come true for American neo-conservatives and others pushing for a more confrontational approach with Iran. It is imperative that we not allow the hard-liners of either country an illegitimate victory and give our support to Iranian democrats in their struggle to reclaim their country."

link to full article:

http://www.alternet.org/world/140626/has_the_election_been_stolen_in_iran/?page=1

Ahmadinejad reelected under cloud of fraud

By Juan Cole

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/06/13/iran /

"Obama administration officials were privately casting doubt on the announced vote tallies. They pointed out that it was unlikely that Ahmadinejad had defeated his chief opponent, Mir-Hossein Moussavi, by a margin of 57 percent, in Moussavi's own home city of Tabriz. Nor is it plausible, as claimed, that Ahmadinejad won a majority of votes in the capital, Tehran, from which he hails. The final tally also gave only 320,000 votes to the other reformist candidate, Mehdi Karoubi, who had helped force Ahmadinejad into a runoff election when he ran in 2005. It seems odd that he get less than 1 percent of the votes in this round. Karoubi, an ethnic Lur from Iran's west, was even alleged to have done poorly in those provinces.

The final vote counts alleged for cities and provinces, even more so than the landslide claimed by the incumbent nationally, strongly suggest a last-minute and clumsy fraud. A carefully planned theft of the election would at least have conceded Tabriz to Moussavi and the rural western Iranian villages to Karoubi."

snip: "The primary challenger to incumbent Ahmadinejad, former Prime Minister Mir-Hossein Moussavi, was widely thought to have a number of crucial constituencies behind him. Urban youth and women, who had elected a reformist president in 1997 and 2001, showed enthusiasm for Moussavi. He also showed an ability to bring out big crowds in his native Azerbaijan, where a Turkic language, Azeri, is spoken rather than Persian. (Azeris constitute about a third of the Iranian population.) It was expected that if the turnout was large, that would help Moussavi.

But not only did Iran's Electoral Commission announce that Ahmadinejad had won almost two-thirds of the general vote, it also gave him big majorities in major cities such as Tehran and Tabriz (the latter is the capital of Azerbaijan). These results seemed unbelievable not only to Moussavi supporters but to many professional Iran observers."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/06/13/iran /

Stealing the Iranian Election
by Juan Cole

http://juancole.com/2009/06/stealing-iranian-election.html

Top Pieces of Evidence that the Iranian Presidential Election Was Stolen

1. It is claimed that Ahmadinejad won the city of Tabriz with 57%. His main opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, is an Azeri from Azerbaijan province, of which Tabriz is the capital. Mousavi, according to such polls as exist in Iran and widespread anecdotal evidence, did better in cities and is popular in Azerbaijan. Certainly, his rallies there were very well attended. So for an Azeri urban center to go so heavily for Ahmadinejad just makes no sense. In past elections, Azeris voted disproportionately for even minor presidential candidates who hailed from that province.

2. Ahmadinejad is claimed to have taken Tehran by over 50%. Again, he is not popular in the cities, even, as he claims, in the poor neighborhoods, in part because his policies have produced high inflation and high unemployment. That he should have won Tehran is so unlikely as to raise real questions about these numbers.

3. It is claimed that cleric Mehdi Karoubi, the other reformist candidate, received 320,000 votes, and that he did poorly in Iran's western provinces, even losing in Luristan. He is a Lur and is popular in the west, including in Kurdistan. Karoubi received 17 percent of the vote in the first round of presidential elections in 2005. While it is possible that his support has substantially declined since then, it is hard to believe that he would get less than one percent of the vote. Moreover, he should have at least done well in the west, which he did not.

link to full article:

http://juancole.com/2009/06/stealing-iranian-election.html

[JI7]

46. yup, they closed down Al Arabya

[NYC_SKP]

40. Ahmadinejad:Khomeni = Bush:Cheney

both fuckbucket puppets of the real gameplayers.

[HarvardMed]

43. You guys are forgetting one thing

It's not what we want, it's what the Iranians want that matters. For a while I've been thinking that maybe most Iranians really do want Ahmadinejad in power, and he's guaranteed to have the support of the country's poor which are easily over 10 million - that is a quarter of Iran's population.

If the entire country - or atleast most of it- opposed Ahmadinejad and believed that the vote has been rigged, then surely the protests would be at a much larger scale.

[divineorder]

54. Protests take time to build

In addition, many people are scared to come out of their houses and march in the streets. They are asking for a General Strike on Tuesday. This will allow people to protest without marching in the streets and having to confront riot police.

[LeftishBrit]

61. Of course. He practically defines 'far right'.

[Prometheus Bound]

62. There is nothing in that article that says kids are being murdered in college dorms as you say.