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John Culhane: A Few Further Thoughts on the DOJ’s DOMA Brief ('not enough gays to matter')

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:35 PM
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John Culhane: A Few Further Thoughts on the DOJ’s DOMA Brief ('not enough gays to matter')
The anger and disillusionment continue unabated from the Department of Justice’s (”DOJ”) brief filed in the Smelt case. The case challenges (among other things) the Defense of Marriage Act (”DOMA”), and DOJ just moved for dismissal. As I wrote yesterday, the brief will stop you in your tracks, as it recites terrible homophobic cant. For example: DOMA doesn’t discriminate, as gays and lesbians can marry – just not members of the same sex.

The fact that this story has gotten any traction at all — it’s a legal brief, hardly the stuff of blogosphere excitement, and it’s competing with the minute-by-minute implosion in Iran — is a testament to two related facts:

(1) The contents of the brief (more than the decision to file such a motion) betray an astonishing tone-deafness to the LGBT community. With a few exceptions, most measured legal academics have taken pretty much the position I set forth last night: Defend DOMA if you have to, preferably on procedural grounds, but there’s no need to make arguments against gay equality that it will be tough to walk back from. Art Leonard, one of the founders of the legal gay rights academic movement, is a real voice of reason here. I recommend reading his entire post, which provides a clear analysis of the other (more defensible) grounds for the DOJ’s arguments. But on the substantive arguments:

for dismissing the case, according to the Justice Department, is failure to state a valid legal claim. They argue that every legal ground presented by the plaintiffs for attacking DOMA is so lacking in any possibility of winning that the court should just dismiss the case. Here is where the trouble comes, and why all of the LGBT litigation groups have blasted the Justice Department (and the Obama Administration, for after all the buck stops with the President for every act of his administration, regardless whether he was specifically aware of it). Some of the arguments made are so specious and prejudicial that they sound atrocious coming from this administration.

“The one that bothers me the most is the argument that there is no anti-gay motivation behind DOMA, merely a desire by Congress to pursue a policy of “neutrality” with respect to the issue of same-sex marriage in a situation where some states might allow such marriages while others would oppose them. This is absurd.”

(2) On a more cosmic level, the brief seemed to have blown into the open a dormant suspicion that Obama isn’t really much of friend of the gay community, after all. He’s done little or nothing so far (face it, Kool-Aid drinkers1), and this latest action is likely to cripple the argument that he’s simply being smart and strategic. His (atypically) halting comments on marriage equality during the Brian Williams interview might now be seen as a kind of prelude to this filing.

And as much as it pains me to admit this, we ignored at our peril his decision to retract his early-stated support for marriage equality: In 1996, while running for Illinois State Senate, he’d filled out a questionnaire stating that he supported same-sex marriage. Then he backed away, further and further. Here’s a Windy City Times reporter on the issue:

“In a January 2004 interview I conducted with Obama at the Windy City Times’ office, Obama clearly stated that lack of support for full marriage equality was a matter of strategy rather than principle, but in even more recent comments, it appears he is backing off even further, saying it is more of a religious issue, and also a “state” issue, so he favors civil unions.”

Conveniently (for whom?) this story didn’t break until shortly before the Inauguration, but it should have concerned us more. Well, we’ve been here before (see Clinton, William J.) Husband political power by throwing us overboard. I don’t think it’s even necessary, as a political matter, to do this, but why take any risk at all? Apparently, there aren’t enough of us to matter.


http://wordinedgewise.org/blog/2009/06/13/a-few-further-thoughts-on-the-dojs-doma-brief/
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WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. At what time has this been a dormant suspicion of yours?
I think you've been pretty up front about believing this all along.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. with good fucking reason
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. kick his ass girl lol
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. I've had it, PT
this shit is fucking outrageous :mad:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You're right. But I was told Donnie McClurkin was only singing one song.
And Rick Warren was only saying one prayer.

What's your point?
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. you're being uppity, PT, tossing the truth around
you need to be tempered
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WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. And you still obsess about the meaningless distractions
Like McClurkin and Warren when there are serious issues to discuss.

And I mean serious gay issues, not just the war and economy things.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. whatever
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 09:52 PM by Bluebear
As though you care about serious gay issues.
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WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Like organizing to prevent the "people's veto"
from stripping gay marriage rights in Maine this fall. Yeah, you're right, I'm not doing anything at all for gay rights.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Good for you. Now kindly leave me out of it.
Comment on the article but I don't welcome any more personal comments about me from you.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. you're funny --
:rofl:
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Those "meaningless distractions" turned out to be signs of things to come. n/t
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. Uh bluebear didn't author that blog post.
Read a little more carefully next time before you kneejerk. The grown-ups like to discuss these articles.
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Great article. Thanks. n/t
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Does anyone here ever comment on the articles,
or do they just go straight for the ad hominem?
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I actually just used it in an ongoing discussion in another thread.
Sorry, kinda busy with other things.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. No, I wasn't talking about you.
I was talking about how any article that expresses doubts about Obama's actions or policies garners some variation on the response in Post #1: the old "YOU DON'T LIKE HIM AND YOU NEVER HAVE!1!!!!!!11" bullshit.

It would be nice if people would do a bit of discussion now and then.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Oh THAT.
You were right the first time on that.

Even if I think I disagree with something, at least I will read the article and try to comment on its merits (or lack thereof). But you can always tell a cheerleader, because they never do that. It's right to: PUMA, you never liked Obama, racist (yes, we had that one just the other night), would you have rather had McCain?, you should have voted for McCain (and other variations of that), and so on and so on. It gets tiresome.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Yes, I just got the one about how I need to vote for a Republican.
Now why would I go and do that?

I was voting Democratic when most of these mewling, puking little ninnies were struggling over their potty training.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Me too.
And somehow, through it all, I managed to remain somewhat objective toward my chosen politico. But I see where many here believe that to be a fault of some kind. Odd.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Yeah, I somehow avoided the urge to worship a politician as a deity.
Some of these people around here, well, if they had been in Spain in the 30s, they would have been Falangists, and if they had been in Argentine a few years later they would have been Peronistas, etc.

It's all about the strong man on the white horse.
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