My opinion of Chavez was declining for awhile, but I can say I am DONE with him now

[ButterflyBlood]

Openly backing Ahmadinejad and the mullahs, some of the most reactionary fucks on Earth is basically crossing a point of no return. The real progressives are out there on the streets of Tehran fighting for freedom and Chavez is speaking support of the jack-booted thugs and one of the most reactionary regimes on the planet.

Fuck Chavez. It should be obvious by now that he is no progressive, he just got lucky and got a PR boost thanks to stupid scapegoating by Bush.

[ecstatic]

1. hmmm

:popcorn:

[marmar]

7. I got extra butter......

:popcorn:

[bbinacan]

2. I've been done with him

for quite a while.

[EFerrari]

3. LOL!

:rofl:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

37. Just out of curiousity.....

Does a light similar to the Bat Signal go up every time someone posts something negative about Chavez so you can run in to defend him?

[EFerrari]

39. No, I'm just reading DU. But, thanks for asking.

:)

[Billy Burnett]

44. Whatever, a much needed ray of sunshine appears when she does post.

No bat sig needed, the stench is usually enough to get my attention to most of the DU Chavez bashing threads.

[PM7nj]

4. Just one dictator supporting another. nt

[reggie the dog]

106. Chavez is no dictator

he was democratically elected in an election observed by international observers who found no evidence of fraud.

[Waco83]

175. Hitler was elected too....n/t

[Billy Burnett]

177. Welcome to DU

Looks like you'll fit right in w/the Hugo haters here. :dunce:

[Petals]

178. Yes welcome Waco!

History is often a casualty when people feel the need to vent.

[DavidDvorkin]

5. Has he actually come out in support of Ahmedinajad?

[Drunken Irishman]

6. Yes. He called Ahmedinajad his greatest ally.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. I remember reading that somewhere but can't find it. Here's a quote from today.

"In a telephone conversation with the Iranian president, Chavez said, “The victory of Dr. Ahmadinejad in the recent election is a win for all people in the world and free nations against global arrogance,” Iran’s Presidential Office reported. Chavez usually uses the term “global arrogance” to refer to Venezuela’s arch-foe the United States."

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=196646

[Occam Bandage]

38. Here's an endorsement of Ahmadinejad by Chavez from a day before the election.

"Speaking to supporters Thursday, Hugo Chávez called Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ''a courageous fighter for the Islamic Revolution, the defense of the Third World, and in the struggle against imperialism'' -- a reference to the U.S. government's foreign policy."

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/venezuela/story/1093987.html

[ButterflyBlood]

10. He was the first world leader to call Ahmadinejad and congratulate him on his "victory"

and said that he was "fighting for a better world." or some bullshit like that.

[EFerrari]

17. Do you have a link for that or did he say that on his way to deploy Big Foot

against the freedom fighters in Iran?

lol

[ButterflyBlood]

18. Here you go:

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=196646

And no, I don't believe the bullshit pajamas story, you can quit bringing that red herring up.

[EFerrari]

28. So, your link is to a state owned outlet?

Nothing from Venezuela? Chavez isn't shy about dissenting.

[Occam Bandage]

33. Here's one from the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/5526721/Iran-elections-revolt-as-crowds-protest-at-Mahmoud-Ahmadinejads-rigged-victory.html

Here's one from France 24:
http://www.france24.com/en/20090614-west-iran-caution-concern-ahmadinejad-election-european-union-nuclear

[devilgrrl]

43. Oh. the TORYgraph!!!!!

That's settles it!!!!!!

[Occam Bandage]

46. Yes, their editorials can be pretty slanted. I don't recall them making up quotes. nt

[Garbo 2004]

53. From Venezuela's gov't site, the presidential press release:

http://www.presidencia.gob.ve/action/noticia/view_ver_mas?id_noticia_web=2969

[MADem]

67. Well, that's a bit problematic for the huffers and puffers who insist he'd never do such a thing.

That release is quite clear--Chavez is thrilled that his good buddy in jackboots has prevailed!

[EFerrari]

88. That's from Saturday morning, describing a Friday night phone call.

The EU also had a pro forma notice up and they pulled it. I know because another DUer gave me the link and what was left is a page error.

Who else do you think called Tehran on Friday?

[Garbo 2004]

99. You asked if there was any source from Venezuela and there is: the President's own web site. n/t

[EFerrari]

111. Yes. And the link provides the context of a pro forma call

to an ally on Friday, before any of this dispute started.

[MADem]

148. That wasn't pro-forma; that's fulsome praise. NT

[MADem]

65. Yep, he has--maybe he'll send him one of his Penis Phones so they can chat!

http://salem-news.com/articles/june132009/iran_electtions_6-13-09.php


The Hamas movement praised the results, saying they proved the "success" of the incumbent government and were a victory for Iranian democracy. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez telephoned Ahmadinejad to congratulate him.

The victory "represents the feeling and commitment of the Iranian people to building a new world," Chavez said in a statement.


:puke: He can't POSSIBLY believe that line of bullshit. I guess the feelings and commitment of the majority marching in the streets and being beaten by riot police don't count. I suppose dictators have to stick together....



The "Penis Phone"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/11/chavez-venezuela-mobile-phone-vergatorio

Chavez launches $15 mobile phone with a name to make his mother blush
Venezuelan president predicts the Vergatario will be a bestseller worldwide

Rory Carroll in Caracas guardian.co.uk, Monday 11 May 2009 17.15 BST Article history

It is perhaps the world's cheapest mobile phone. It is the latest offering from Hugo Chavez's socialist revolution. And its name is derived from a slang word for penis. Behold the Vergatorio.

Venezuela's president launched the handset on his TV show with a Mother's Day call to his mum and predicted it would conquer all rivals. "This telephone will be the biggest seller not only in Venezuela but the world," he said. "Whoever doesn't have a Vergatario is nothing," he joked.

Priced just $15 (nearly £10), the phone has a camera, WAP internet access, FM radio and MP3 and MP4 players for music and videos. And it has that name.

Why the president chose it remains unclear, but he enunciates each syllable with a grin. Some laugh, others are affronted.

Verga is slang for penis and vergatario is a newly minted word which signifies excellent but retains connotations from its root.

[Duer 157099]

8. link? n/t

[donco6]

9. No fan of Chavez, but you're not reading that Pajamas article?

Because it's a BS site. Got something else?

[Drunken Irishman]

12. No. I think it's from a quote where he called Ahmedinajad his greatest ally.

And then congratulated him on his 'victory'. :eyes:

[donco6]

13. Oh. I saw that, too.

The pajamas one says Chavez is sending troops. Who knows? They're both nuts.

[ButterflyBlood]

20. Linked above

I know that story is bullshit and am putting no stock in it.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=196646

[donco6]

22. Thanks - yes.

Sorry, just saw a bunch of people going off on the other thing.

But this doesn't surprise me at all. I seriously wonder if Chavez popped a screw loose.

[Deja Q]

11. I might have liked one of his actions, once, but the day he

said Obama made a great speech but if he didn't get ___ and ___ and ___ then all Obama said was empty and fake... Well, because Chavez decided to go all antagonistic, don't expect Obama or anyone else to cave in to any demands. :dunce:

Backing Ahareallybigmentallyderangedjackass isn't helping Chavez either...

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. Source, other than pajamasmedia? n/t

[Occam Bandage]

27. Tehran Times, a pseudo-state-run newspaper from Iran.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=196646

[MADem]

68. Look upthread at the VZ government press release. He's OVERJOYED. nt

[anonymous171]

16. Meh. It's called international politics. Chavez is short on allies against America

[ButterflyBlood]

19. What exactly does he have to fear from America?

I really doubt Obama is sitting in the Oval Office now plotting against him. Or that he ranks very high on Obama's list of concerns.

[reggie the dog]

108. imperialistic capitalism

which has fucked over latin and south america for about 150 years.

[backscatter712]

21. Is there a real source on this story? Otherwise, I'm calling bullshit. n/t

[ButterflyBlood]

24. READ THE THREAD

Again: http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=196646

[backscatter712]

26. Tehran Times: Hmm, an Iranian mainstream outlet still publishing after Bushmedinajad's coup?

Why do I not trust that source?

They will publish what Bushmedinajad wants to have published, including glowing endorsements of him, be they true or not.

[Occam Bandage]

30. That's pretty desperate as far as denial goes.

But I'm sure Chavez will come right out and set the story straight.

[MADem]

69. Why don't you look at the Government of Venezuela press release.

It's five or six paragraphs of felicitations and happiness. There is no question that Chavez is fulsome in his praise for that little fucking shithead dictator.

[Garbo 2004]

47. How about the press release on Venezuela's President's website?

http://www.presidencia.gob.ve/action/noticia/view_ver_mas?id_noticia_web=2969

English translation here: http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/chavez130609.html

[Occam Bandage]

48. Thanks. That completely settles it. Right from the horse's ass.

(The translation is from a respected socialist magazine, so I trust 'em.)

[ButterflyBlood]

51. Really the denial and excuses here remind me of creationism

Going to be tough to deny on this though.

[MADem]

70. Many of the usual exhorters are giving this topic a miss

I'm not terribly surprised. Kinda hard to back a guy who's backing a thuggish, dictatorial asshole. Birds of a feather, and all that.

It doesn't surprise me, though. That's just Hugo being Hugo--the total asshole that he is.

[reggie the dog]

109. please

the USA is great friends to China, which lets kids work and does not allow much dissention.

[MADem]

142. You're missing the point. They're Birds of a Feather.

But then, you're doing that deliberately, because you find the Benevolent Serfdom under Chavez somehow charming, for reasons only you know. But let one of those serfs work his way out of poverty, and next thing ya know, he's the enemy of the state.

[reggie the dog]

154. one is demoncrratically elected

in elections observed by the international community, the other has a huge scandal about fraud.

[MADem]

161. I'll agree with that "demon" crratically view! NT

[reggie the dog]

163. what are you getting at?

is Chavez a demon because he nationalized oil companies? He is loved by a large majority and has gotten between 55 and 65 percent support in most elections. Elections which were observed by international organizations who said they were honest.

[MADem]

166. Chavez is a dictator who keeps the serfs happy--so long as they remain serfs.

It's not hard to convince uneducated people who have nothing that if they get something they're better off.

Let any of the poverty stricken find their way out of the slums and into middle class society, though, and they become the enemy of Chavez.

Anyone who doesn't see through his "noblesse oblige" method of absolute rule is delusional.

[reggie the dog]

170. I hardly think that people who get out of slums

thanks to wage redistribution will become the enemy of Chavez. how is he a dictator again? he does respect the country's constitution after all.

[MADem]

173. Yeah, he rewrites that constitution anytime it says something he doesn't like.

And so far, he hasn't given any of those serfs enough money to get out of those slums, "Vergatorios" notwithstanding.

[reggie the dog]

184. when did he rewrite the constitution?

The people vote for the changes in the constitution there. They voted no to one of his proposals and yes to another. Meanwhile, here in France we voted no for the european union constitution and the governement promptly voted yes in our place!

[MADem]

187. He gives people a spare day off to vote the way he wants them to.

He bribes his serfs. He tells them what to do on his stupid Oprah-ish talk show, and he comes up with gimmicks, bread and circuses, like the Vergatario, to keep his name in the news. Sorta like Mahmoud does--or tried to do, sending money to poor people who write to him begging, dispensing treasury money like it is a personal charity fund-- in Iran. Birds of a feather.

Didn't France dump the guy at the helm who wanted, but "lost" the referendum for the EU constitution? And isn't the guy in charge now the one who is to be blamed or praised for whatever happened with France subsequently vis a vis EU? I don't know--I admit I haven't kept up. I thought Sarkozy wanted "EU Lite--and no damn Turkey" but I haven't followed the story arc very closely at all, I admit.

[reggie the dog]

188. Sarkozy

was all for the EU constitution. He was angry that we voted no. So he, along with other traitors from both the major left and right parties changed the French constitution permitting the govt. to vote on an EU constitution, before our French constitution stated that the people would vote for adopting an EU constitution. After they changed the French constitution they adopted the new "treaty of Lisbon, which is basically the same as the EU constitution. Seeing as the left and the right fucked us over it had little effect on the outcome of the election for president which Sarkozy won. At least the people in Venzuela got to vote again. Has the majority of French people voted for the EU constitution a second time around I would not be as angry as I am.

[MADem]

189. I think Sarkozy's a tool. I "sorta kinda" followed that election, and I liked the

woman who was running much better. But I am no expert on politics in France and won't pretend to be--I've only been there a few times, passing through, pretty much. I just thought Sarkozy was a petulant little martinet. That new wife of his must either be stupid, blind, or working that dude for a payday.

[reggie the dog]

190. Ségolène Royal

the Socialist was much better, but lots of working class people voted to help the rich.

[MADem]

191. That's the one! I thought she was plain-spoken, sharp and made sense.

Of course, that's from a distance. Like I said, I didn't track the issues closely, she simply appealed to me more on TV and in print.

[reggie the dog]

192. she was and she did

but a large chunk of the working class prefered to vote for the right wing, they prefered to make it harder on themselves for the benefit of the middle and upper classes. I voted to help them, they voted for the guy who gives you tax rebates of the interest you pay on your home. In other words, people too poor to buy, voted en masse for the guy who gives people like me, wealthy enought to get a home loan, a tax rebate. As a result the state pays my wife and I 500 euros this year and people poorer than me have to pay taxes.

[roody]

182. How about a DU meetup in Venezuela? I like to see for myself.

[reggie the dog]

185. that would be cool

I have a friend from Venezuela who goes back every two years or so.

[Waco83]

176. Hitler was elected too.... n/t

[EFerrari]

94. That press release was posted Saturday morning

about a Friday night event. The EU also had one up.

I guess they're in on it, too! lol

[MADem]

149. Gee, I knew there was a BIG PROBLEM on Saturday morning.

Didn't poor Chavez have anyone to tell him that there were problems with the results?

What are you saying? That Chavez is stupid and doesn't follow world events, particularly when they concern one of his closest allies and OPEC pals?

Come on. You're spinning so hard, you've got to be close to vomiting. Just STOP. Acknowledge the obvious--the fat little despot is supporting his OPEC buddy, the skinny little despot. Birds of a feather.

Lol.

[peacetalksforall]

23. I somehow do or want to believe that there is distortion in the alleged

statement. I want to hear it and see his lips move on a video. It just doesn't sound right. He doesn't seem to be bowing to a many who bows to clerics and ultra radicals. I'll wait for awhile.

There are people on DU who don't hide their opposition to Chavez. Yes, I'll wait.

[MADem]

71. There is no Santa, and Hugo is an asshole who backs a dictatorial thug

http://www.presidencia.gob.ve/action/noticia/view_ver_mas?id_noticia_web=2969

Unless, of course, the Government of Venezuela website, controlled by that red-shirted dictator, is somehow making poor Hugo look bad and inventing these fulsome congratulations?

People on DU are opposed to Chavez because he's a thug and an asshole, too--just like Ahmadinejad.

[reggie the dog]

110. how is he a thug and an asshole?

Is Obama an asshole and a thug because he considers Israel a US ally even though they make the Palestininas live in ghettos?

[MADem]

141. Line up for your Vergatario, then, and don't forget to watch El Presidente's tee vee show, now!

And have another glass of Kool Aid.

[reggie the dog]

155. like Berlusconi does not control the media in Italy

and like the French president does not have a lot of conrol over French TV, not to mention friends that run the private TV chains.

[MADem]

162. Uh, Berlusconi is a fascist. Using him to prove your point probably wasn't a strong move.

And Sarkozy is a conservative rightwinger, too.

So gee--Hugo's a lot like those guys, eh? Authoritarians, hardliners?

I rest my case!

I never buy the "But, but...THOSE guys are just as bad!" argument, anyway. It's not a very good excuse for poor behavior.

[reggie the dog]

164. How is Berlusconi a fascist?

the fascist party exists in Italy and Berlusconi is not a member of it. Again, he is a democratically elected leader of his country. I do not like that he is right wing economically but other than that he is supported by a majority, be it razor thin, of his population. I would also hardly qualify Sarkozy as an authoritarian or a hardliner. There is a big difference. Berlusconi and Sarkozy use their influence to convince the masses that it is in their best interest to vote for them when in fact their best interests would really be in voting for a left wing party. Chavez uses his influence to convince people that 21 century socialism is the way forward for Venezuela, south and latin america, and is good for the vast majority of the people there, which is not at all a lie. Using the media to get a messege out is fine, hell controling that media is fine, so long as you do not lie to and manipulate the people. How is what Chavez and the democratically elected legislature of Venezuela a lie or manipulation?

[MADem]

165. OhhhhKay.... fine! Silvio's a pot smoking liberal hippie, then who doesn't steal from the treasury

or consort with organized crime, or engage in thuggery, bribery or control, with an iron fist, the media in Italy.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I don't need a label to tell me what I know to be true.

You might want to check your sources, too. He wasn't "elected by a majority." He had to first, collect signatures like Darryl Issa did to oust Gray Davis to pry Prodi loose, and then, form a coalition to shove himself back into power (he couldn't do it on his own steam)--and many members of that erstwhile coalition want nothing to do with him.

But hey, he gets the Comorra vote!

I'll agree that Silvio has a lot in common with Hugo--they're both authoritarian crooks!

"Using the media is fine, and controlling the media is fine?"

Wow. I guess that part about the lying and manipulating the people is negotiable with you? Because that's exactly what happens when the party in power controls the media. Only a naif would think otherwise.

Let's just let Rupert Murdoch buy up everything, then, shall we? Fair and balanced, after all...because he says so!

[reggie the dog]

171. when does Chavez lie

and abuse his people on state tv? Berlusconi, like I said, has a razor thin majority. Coalition governement is how it works in most EU countries.

[MADem]

174. You apparently missed the riots last year? You know, where he sent

the cops out into the street to crack the heads of students? You remember, when they went out into the street to protest the closing of the ONLY "opposition" TV station?

Put chadors on the women, and it looked like Iran.

:eyes:

This is counterproductive. You've had a double heaping helping of KoolAid.

:hi:

[JackRiddler]

129. Soon Obama will be issuing congratulations to Ahmedinejad, too.

Watch & learn.

[cali]

131. Don't hold your breath for that.

Watch and learn.

[JackRiddler]

132. As your track record is impeccable, I defer!

[cali]

135. thank! well, not impeccable, but pretty damn good.

[MADem]

140. You're funny nt

[question everything]

25. But.. but.. Chavez can do no wrong on DU

after all, he is anti Israel. This should qualify him a welcome guest on DU, perhaps even an honorary membership.


:sarcasm:

And why should you have ever considered him "progressive," after clamping down on free press and practically declared himself dictator for life?

[EFerrari]

32. You forgot the part where he eats the hearts of tabbies on television.

[peacetalksforall]

134. Anti-Israel or Anti-Israle policy towards their neighbors and their obnoxiously and deathly

takeover of lands? There is a difference in the concept and precedence for Israel and their horribly rotten policies of today. Palestinians. Gaza Strip. Lebanon. Intrustion in other countries. Trade status for the movement, therefore proliferation and profit, of atom bomb supplies and technology. Their partnerships in take-outs (assassinations, if it has to be spelled out). They are not your nice neighbors. They are the worst, except for those who want peace side=by=side with me.

Please make distinctions between Israel and Israel's policies.

Has anti-semite claims been replaced with anti-Israel. Do we have to list both when we try to say we are for Israel, but not their politics and stinking policies towards others?

Someone sets the goals for peace and it isn't the leaders of Israel. And it hasn't been for over half the time since the country was established.

[devilgrrl]

29. I heard that Hugo Chavez backs Michael Vick and that cat killer kid in Florida!!!!!

His repugnance knows no bounds!!!!!!

THIS IS ALL TRUE!!!!

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

31. I heard he's sending samba bands to Iraq to seduce the people with maracas.

[Occam Bandage]

35. There are like dozens of major media outlets reporting this.

Denial ain't pretty.

[devilgrrl]

40. Are these the same media outlets that are doing an amazing job covering what's happening in Iran?

I bet it's TWEW!

[Occam Bandage]

41. Chavez backed Ahmadinejad in public before the election.

It really isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that Chavez would congratulate the guy he said he wanted to win.

[devilgrrl]

42. You got that on tape and interpreted by someone you trust?

:popcorn:

[Occam Bandage]

45. Yes. I trust the Associated Press to accurately translate the speeches of heads of state.

Given that Mr. Chavez has not publicly disputed the translation provided by the world's largest wire service, I am inclined to believe the AP.

Especially since it's completely in character for him. He's long been appreciative of world leaders who stand up to America.

[Garbo 2004]

52. The press release re: Chavez congratulating Ahmad is on Chavez's official gov't website.

http://www.presidencia.gob.ve/action/noticia/view_ver_mas?id_noticia_web=2969

English translation here: http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/chavez130609.html

[devilgrrl]

81. I stand corrected.

Yep, what a schmuck.

[EFerrari]

95. The EU are schmucks, too then, because they also recognized the results

on Friday.

[MADem]

151. Well, the Socialist Workers think they are schmucks--oh, and racists, too.

http://socialistworker.org/2009/06/12/europes-right-rise

.....But the biggest news was the success of the far right, which won breakthroughs in one country after another. All told, neo-Nazi and far-right parties will hold more than 40 seats in the new European parliament.

Four of those seats are from Holland, where the Islamophobic Freedom Party led by Geert Wilders won 16.4 percent of the vote countrywide. In Austria, two far-right parties shared a total of 18 percent of the vote.

In Hungary, the viciously anti-immigrant Movement for a Better Hungary--which has a paramilitary unit whose uniforms resemble those of Nazi youth organizations during the Second World War--won some 15 percent of the vote, giving it three seats in the parliament. The Greater Romania Party, which spews its vilest rhetoric against the Roma minority, won two parliamentary seats.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

BY COMPARISON, the right's gains in Britain were actually less sweeping--but still extremely alarming.

In moving into second place in the national vote, the UKIP gained further legitimacy for positions it claims are non-racist, but which thrive on right-wing propaganda against immigrants. The party's chief selling point is opposition to British membership in the European Union, and it blames "uncontrolled immigration from the former Warsaw Pact nations of Eastern Europe" for the crisis in Britain's public services.



Yep, I'd say they're schmucks, too. To put it nicely.

[a la izquierda]

133. lol

seduce them with maracas...hehehehe

[Billy Burnett]

34. Hugo Chavez is a Somali pirate.

[EFerrari]

36. LOL!

[Odin2005]

49. Chavez is dead to me.

He can go fuck himself.

[Prometheus Bound]

50. I don't get this. Why wouldn't Chavez congratulate Ahmadinijad?

Iran is a very important strategic partner. (So is Israel for that matter.) Both are self-described revolutionaries, and perceive themselves in a common fight against imperialism and hegemony. Iran provides much needed oil exploration expertise. Both countries have worked together within OPEC to limit production to raise oil prices. Iranian companies are helping to develop Venezuelan oilfields. Both countries reject US interference. Venezuela supports Iran's peaceful civilian nuclear program, as well as Iran's right to determine its own affairs. For sure they have major differences -- religion, culture, attitude towards unions, democracy -- but it is a very successful strategic partnership, not so much about Ahmadinejad personally. former President Khatami was treated just as well.

It would be rather surprising if Chavez didn't congratulate him.

[Kurska]

54. Hmm I don't know, the murder of college kids and burning of ballot boxes might be a reason

What rock are you living under?

[Prometheus Bound]

57. And how many college kids has Ahmadinejad murdered then?

[Kurska]

84. Couples of hours ago I saw the Bloody body of university kids and bullet holes In dorm doors online

I guess his security forces might have killed more since then.

What the hell is wrong with you? How can you defend him? He is setting police on protesters what kind of progressive are you?

[Prometheus Bound]

87. OK, so you don't know anything. You're just making this shit up. Very helpful.

[Kurska]

112. Pictures of aftermath of police raid on University of Iran

http://entesabat88.persianblog.ir/post/2/#

Is that good enough for you?

[Prometheus Bound]

121. You seem to be trying a bit hard to find dead bodies but there are none there.

Thank goodness!

[Kurska]

126. The kid in the first pic is supposedly dead now

You're pathetic, you really are, how can you defend this? Are you a troll?

[EFerrari]

89. None of that had happened ON FRIDAY n/t

[reggie the dog]

113. how many college kids did chavez kill?

how many ballot boxes did he burn?

[Garbo 2004]

56. You're being logical. Others however apparently are "shocked, shocked" that Chavez is a politician

and not a freedom fighter on behalf of the Iranian people against an oppressive regime.

[leftstreet]

66. Good points n/t

[JackRiddler]

130. Wait until Obama issues congratulations too - that should blow a few minds.

[Kitty Herder]

136. Hey, stop making sense.

You're interrupting a perfectly good hate-fest.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. Of Course He's Not A Progressive. He's A Scumbag Piece Of Fucking Dictator Filth.

Fuck chavez indeed.

[Prometheus Bound]

58. Not as bad as one of the other candidates

Rezaei went on to threaten Israel, claiming that he was capable of neutralizing the Jewish state with "one strike," a possible allusion to an attack on Israel's Dimona nuclear complex.

http://www.voanews.com/english/Africa/2009-05-26-voa30.cfm

[Hannah Bell]

64. unlike, of course, the noble mousavi, who as ayatollah khomeni's prime minister, enforced this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_executions_of_Iranian_political_prisoners

[MADem]

74. Wow, that's a bit of a desperate stretch.

If you think there's a single person in government in Iran over the age of fifty with "clean hands" from that period of time, I've got a bridge for sale that's right up your alley.

You should see how many executions the Dinner Jacket has supervised, overseen, and ordered. He's a real charmer, especially when it comes to Crimes Against Morality and Crimes Against Chastity. Hell, the Dinner Jacket likes to hang gay kids and "loose teenaged girls" from drott cranes in the town square. Warning to others, and all that.

Yeah, he's the sort of guy Chavez can understand. Birds of a feather.

[Hannah Bell]

103. i don't think there's a single person in any government with clean hands.

unlike some folks.

[MADem]

139. Which folks would those be? nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

85. I'm wondering why none of the Chavez supporters on this thread mention the coup of 1992

Planned and orchestrated by none other than Hugo Chavez.

[killbotfactory]

102. Because the Venezuelan people elected him after it happened

Apparently the Venezuelan government at the time was extremely corrupt, and didn't shy away from massacring it's own citizens, otherwise no majority would have voted Chavez in after the fact. If you want to know why you should read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracazo

[reggie the dog]

116. a coup d'état can be justified you know

when the government in power is in power by fraud, or works for foriegn investors instead of the people of a country. Besides Chavez lost that and came to power later on legally through elections.

[MADem]

138. .....

:rofl:

Father Knows Best!!! Long Live the King!

[reggie the dog]

156. When there was a coup in 1776 it did not degenerate

into a kingdom again.

[MADem]

167. That wasn't a coup. That was a REVOLUTION.

Of, by and for the people. The people joined together and pushed the Brits into the sea.

A coup is when an asshole takes control of the military and seizes control of the government by force. No one co-opted the British military and turned them against the King.

You have a problem with definitions.

[reggie the dog]

172. ok, no one co opted the british military

but the third of americans who wanted to kick out the british did use the armed militias, which were originally supported by the british to fight against french, and indians.

[Petals]

179. not precisely true...

Many pre-existing colonial militias were disbanded by the British and new ones were raised in there place. This was true for both sides of the conflict. It is more accurate to say that many veterans of the French and Indian wars ended up serving in either the new continental army or the new loyalist militia. But I know what you mean.

If you are looking for an example of a coup from that era Oliver Cromwell's efforts against Charles of England, or perhaps the execution of Louis XVI come closer. Both were also regicides.

In any case, Hugo Chavez is no paragon of populist or democratic virtue. And it is certainly none of our (USA) business. Last time we got involved there we ended up having to run Panama.

[reggie the dog]

115. how can you call someone who won fair elections

observed by international observation groups a dictator?

[Petals]

181. It's quite easy actually....

...Although I doubt President Chavez constitutes even a weak example of the breed, democratic elections are not an inoculation against dictatorship. In fact the dictator was a Roman innovation used in times of emergency to take total control of the military and the state very similar to the modern concept of Commander in Chief. Like the word Tyrant, Dictator has come to mean repressive and abusive of that power.

I think it can be argued that the Venezuelan people should take strong measures to guard against his potential abuse, compared to the newly selected and clearly repressive President of Iran, Senor Chavez has a bit farther to go to earn that moniker. The night as they say, is young.

Abraham Lincoln also had a questionable track record with respect to dissenters in the North during the American Civil War. I doubt history will be as kind to either of these Presidents.

[Prometheus Bound]

59. Indonesia welcomes Ahmadinejad`s victory

Monday, June 15, 2009 10:04 WIB | National | | Viewed 69 time(s)

Jakarta (ANTARA News)- The government welcomes the victory of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the Iranian presidential elections and is ready to continue the existing bilateral cooperation with Indonesia, a foreign affairs ministry spokesman in Jakarta said.

"We welcome the victory of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and are ready to continue our cooperation," Teuku Faizasyah, said here on Sunday.
http://www.antara.co.id/en/view/?i=1245035060&c=NAT&s=

[Prometheus Bound]

60. Syria welcomes Ahmadinejad win, looks to stronger ties

13 June 2009

DAMASCUS - Syrian President Bashar al-Assad on Saturday congratulated Iranian counterpart Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on his landslide re-election victory, calling for stronger ties between the allies.

Assad sent Ahmadinejad a cable in which he also expressed his “best wishes for progress and prosperity” to the Iranian people, state-run SANA news agency said.
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/darticlen.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2009/June/middleeast_June352.xml§ion=middleeast&col=

[Prometheus Bound]

61. Iraqi President Congratulates Ahmadinejad on Re-Election

Sunday, June 14, 2009

BAGHDAD — Iraq's president on Sunday congratulated his Iranian counterpart Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on his re-election, becoming the second head of state to offer support for the hard-liner.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526266,00.html

[Prometheus Bound]

62. Karzai congratulates Ahmadinejad in phone call

un 14, 2009 16:18
Afghan President Hamid Karzai called Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Sunday to congratulate him on his victory in his country's presidential election, Karzai's office said.

Karzai lauded the large turnout and congratulated the Iranian people "for making a decision about their destiny," according to a statement from the presidential palace.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1244371093896&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Prometheus Bound]

63. HH the Amir congratulates Ahmadinejad on winning presidential elections

Politics 6/13/2009 6:55:00 PM

KUWAIT, June 13 (KUNA) -- His Highness the Amir Sheikh Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah on Saturday sent a cable of congratulations to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on the occasion of the latter's winning presidential elections for a second term.

HH the Amir, in the cable, praised good relations enjoyed by the two friendly countries and peoples, wishing the Iranian president all the best and hoping that bilateral relations would witness more development.
HH the Crown Prince Sheikh Nawaf Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah and HH the Prime Minister Sheikh Nasser Al-Mohammad Al-Ahmad Al-Sabah sent two similar cables. (end) hb KUNA 131855 Jun 09NNNN

http://www.kuna.net.kw/NewsAgenciesPublicSite/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=2006860&Language=en

[ButterflyBlood]

72. I'm not sure what type of point you're trying to make

A bunch of fellow despots are also congratulating Ahmadinejad. So what?

[Prometheus Bound]

75. The Indonesian government is a despot?????

[ButterflyBlood]

83. President is a former Suharto-supporting general who served in East Timor

May not be an actual dictator but hardly a nice guy.

[EFerrari]

92. The EU also recognized the election results ON FRIDAY.

Why aren't you slamming them?

lol

[MADem]

147. The EU, a powerless bunch of asswipes in the big scheme, recently elected a bunch of rightwing

racist, ethnocentric, throw-all-the-brown-folk-out crowd to their parliament. Yeah, they're all for Truth, Justice, and the European (Great White) Way!

Why are you holding up the "EU" as an entity to emulate? No one votes in those fucking elections--the Boy Scouts have more real clout.

Lol...

[EndersDame]

73. Absolute power corrupts... I used to be a fan too

I thought he was pretty cool in the beginning as well but as the saying goes Absolute power corrupts...Absolutely. A left wing dictator is still a dictator

[reggie the dog]

117. how is he a dictator?

according to the international monitors in Venezuela for the elections he has not cheated to win. He lost a constitutional referendum and then put another referendum up to the people and won. Here in France the govt. gave us a referendum for the EU constitution and did not like that we voted no, so they changed the French constitution to give the govt., and not the people, the power to vote an EU constitution and then voted yes. Where was your outrage in the USA when that happened?

[Petals]

183. He may not be....now

I think the concern lies in the centralization power and the potential for abuse. People are drawing parallels to the rise of other dictators and are disheartened by the similarities in the Chavez regime (for example suggesting an amendment to extend his term in office). I suspect they also find you naive or willfully blind in your defense of him. Again this is an internal Venezuelan issue they will have to work out for themselves. Perhaps he will end up more like FDR than Castro, Pinochet, or Fujimori.

[Baikonour]

76. Not to sound condescending..

But it took this to realize that Chavez is a wingnut?

[EFerrari]

93. That doesn't sound condescending.

lol

[MADem]

150. Not everyone needed this push. A few, though, were solidly camped in either the

"He can do no wrong" venue, or the "He has his reasons" justifications for pure assholery.

I always thought he was a despotic little shit. I know VZ has trouble, but I don't think that power-grubbing little tyrant is the man with the plan to solve their woes. Anyone who has to make it "All About MEEEEEE" never has the best interests of the people at heart.

[yurbud]

77. he is merely making our favorite foreign policy error: the enemy of my enemy is my friend

or the asshole that does my laundry is okay with me.

It is more defensible in Chavez case because he has the world's sole superpower on his case, and can't afford to blow off any potential allies.

Nice try though. You earned you nickel for that post.

[Prometheus Bound]

78. Turkish President and Premier Congratulate Iranian President

ANKARA (A.A) - 15.06.2009 - Turkish President Abdullah Gul and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan congratulated Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who was elected the president of Iran for the second time.

They called Ahmadinejad on the phone and congratulated him for his success in the election.
http://haber.turk.net/ENG/2288464/-dip--Turkish-President-and-Premier-Congratulate-Iranian-President

[yurbud]

79. this is a great thread for all the PR shills to pat each other on the back and collect their nickel

per post, but fool no one.

[scarletwoman]

80. Whoever said was Chavez was a progressive? He's a socialist and a populist.

And the fact is, Ahmedinejad is considered a populist in Iran -- a man of the people.

Chavez and Ahmedinejad have been on friendly terms for years, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Hugo would extend his congratulations.

I swear, people can be SO damn naive about how international alliances and geopolitical strategy work.

sw

[eridani]

100. Ahmedinejad is a fake populist,--a lot like George Bush

Sort of looks like Chavez has to wait his turn in line with all the other congratulators, though.

[Kitsune]

82. If true, this is tremendously disappointing. *nt*

[ecstatic]

86. Well done. His most vocal supporters are speechless and/or resorting to jokes

Chavez did some things right but he jumped the shark long ago.

[EFerrari]

91. Not really. It's just tiring to constantly be pointing out the obvious.

Chavez, along with most world leaders in all likelihood, called Tehran ON FRIDAY. But, because The Chenis is all powerful, it's only being reported NOW to inspire a little Chenis hate amount the gullible.

lol

[Garbo 2004]

119. Well it's not news that Iran has had a repressive regime before Friday.

Iran's gov't has not been a bastion of progressive democratic ideals and human rights. It's not as if the gov't only just recently turned repressive.

And Chavez has a relationship with Iran. It's not merely a matter of pro forma diplomatic politeness from one President to another. It's about bidness and strategery, not ideological purity. It's not as if Ahmad was a 'good guy' before Friday and only now is a questionable ally.

[EFerrari]

123. Are you kidding? Of course it is about business.

Good grief.

Why aren't you ragging on France or the EU or the Arab League or China? They all called and they all recognized the election and it's all about business. What is your problem?

I love these threads that accuse Chavez of acting like a head of state.

lol

[Garbo 2004]

143. Exactly, it's bidness and just like any other politician that supercedes ideology and values. Which

is precisely my point. And yet some here apparently are "shocked, shocked" that Chavez would support such an oppressive regime, when he's already been an ally of Iran for some time. That's what's bizarre...that people are surprised at all.

I'm not "ragging" on Chavez. I just posted a link to confirm that Chavez had indeed congratulated Ahmad since some here apparently had refused to believe that he had done so.

First you yourself seemed to doubt media reports that said Chavez had congratulated Ahmad. (Why would you doubt that when as you now say, such congratulations are "pro forma" among heads of state?) Then when presented with the statement on his own website, you said oh, but that was on Friday, before the unrest and the gov't's overt acts of repression. As if Ahmad and the Iranian gov't---a gov't with which Chavez is allied---were any less an oppressive, undemocratic regime on Friday than they were on Saturday or Sunday. Or as if the regime's actions this weekend, had they occurred on Friday, would have made a substantive difference in Chavez's alliance with and support of the regime. He's got mutual interests and business with the regime. Regardless of who was declared the President or how.

Chavez is a politician and engages in realpolitik. A fact that evidently seems to surprise and disapppoint some people who apparently have lionized him into some kind of superhero and defender of democracy and the oppressed at home and abroad.

I don't lionize politicians. Or trust them. I get realpolitik and don't unrealistically believe or expect that they will act consistently with beneficent purity, because even the best of them don't and won't. Realistically they can't even if they were so inclined. So I don't have a problem---no reason or need to doubt that Chavez had congratulated Ahmad, no need to justify, defend or condemn it. Evidently some of his supporters do.

Adding: reportedly Chavez's most recent comments: "'Ahmadinejad was re-elected after a great victory in Iran. Congratulations to him and the Iranian people. It was a great victory but it is already being clouded by imperialist spokesmen,' said Chavez during his weekly radio show Alo Presidente on Sunday." http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Politics/?id=3.0.3427665323

Alo Presidente's site won't load for me so perhaps someone else can confirm that Chavez just reiterated his support for Ahmad after all that recent unpleasantness. Not an entirely unexpected response as I previously said. http://www.alopresidente.gob.ve/

[EFerrari]

153. Because I didn't have the context. There were at least three OPs here

that implied the congratulations were given AFTER all of this started as if to endorse whatever actual repression is going on there, which still has to be determined. And that in a day full of rumors, such as that Chavez had sent riot police to Tehran, lol.

Alo Presidente isn't loading for me either but I am now curious and will keep checking today. I think the initial statement from Saturday morning that I found last night has been pulled but will have to find my link to make sure. ETA: The press release hasn't been pulled but only replaced by a more current topic.

These threads are exactly like the Freepers having vapors over Obama "bowing" to the Saudis. And it's sort of hilarious because the elections in Ven couldn't be more different that what just seemed to happen in Iran and Chavez has taken a lot of cr@p for not using measures like riot police on student demonstrators. But, he is the Chenis and has to be dragged into everything apparently.

[Prometheus Bound]

90. Ahmadinejad to meet with Presidents of Russia and China this week.

Ahmadinejad due in Russia on first trip since vote
Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:43am
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev plans to meet Ahmadinejad on the sidelines of the summit to discuss bilateral ties and Iran's nuclear program, a Kremlin source said. Russia has supplied nuclear fuel to Iran for a civilian nuclear reactor.

Chinese President Hu Jintao also has a meeting scheduled with Iran's president in Yekaterinburg, a Chinese official said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE55E1DS20090615

[EFerrari]

96. I'm sorry I didn't get back to this thread sooner but

it gets really tiresome. I swear, if the UN voted to invade Mars, the headlines would be "Chavez to Attack Outer Space!"

lol

[Prometheus Bound]

97. There's something about leaders who want to spread the wealth that drives a certain crowd crazy.

Curious.

[EFerrari]

98. Americans in particular like cartoons more than they enjoy real foreign leaders.

[reggie the dog]

120. we cannot let such ideas of wage redistribution

and spreading the wealth come to the USA. So the left (Democrats) must have Democrats working for the capitalists to convince the voters to be "moderate" which just means to accept that the rich are getting more rich each year whilst the poor are getting poorer.

[killbotfactory]

101. Chavez isn't in charge of Iran

Venezuela has had ties to Iran since before Chavez became a political force.

The future of Iran is up to the Iranians who are willing and able to confront the worst of Iran's repressive forces.

What the leaders of other countries say is irrelevent, unless the ruling forces in Iran can use them to justify cracking down on the protesters as acting in the interests of foreign agents.

[Kickin_Donkey]

104. Yawn ... I'm sure Chavez was waiting ...

on pins and needles for your announcement.

[reggie the dog]

105. so did the leaders of the EU, so did the leader of France

so did most world leaders.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

107. Why, that guy Chavez is downright unAmurkan!

[shadowknows69]

114. He kind of lost me when he was made Presidente for life

A benevolent monarch is still a monarch

[Prophet 451]

118. At least that works

hey Shadow,
I'm not a big believer in democracy and I figure a benevolent monarch or dictator would actually be a damn sight better than democracy in many ways but I wasn't aware that Chavez had actually been declared Imperator.

But yeah, he kinda lost me too.

[shadowknows69]

152. That will be enough out of you ya freakin limey!

j/k, nothin but love, you know that. :toast:

[EFerrari]

122. Except that didn't happen. They lifted term limits.

He still has to run and they have a better election system than we do.

[Jester Messiah]

124. Events in Iran can be followed as they happen, follow #iranelection on twitter.

Anyone who supports the butchers in Tehran is a worthless, evil bastard.

[Jester Messiah]

125. The university of Tehran was attacked by pro-gov't forces.

Pics: http://25khordad.wordpress.com/

[EFerrari]

127. And anyone who listens to hysterial ignorant smears like yours

probably deserves your company.

[Jester Messiah]

137. I hope you're being paid well to say so. [nt]

[BolivarianHero]

128. Chavez is wrong about Iran...

But he's also the only Venezuelan leader of the past generation to make any real progress with regards to women's rights.

[Vidar]

145. Welcome to DU.

[Vidar]

144. He's wrong about Iran & right about most other things.

[blindpig]

146. They are both anti-imperialists, what's so hard to figure out?

They rightly see US imperial power as the greatest danger to their nations and are united in opposing this. Who could blame them?

[cali]

158. Ahmadinejad is a religious nut and a bigot.

but hey, you want to celebrate his "anti-imperialism", go for it.

[blindpig]

159. I wouldn't dispute that..

He is nonetheless a nationalist who wishes to keep his country free of US domination, and ya can't blame him for that.

Perhaps if US intent towards Iran weren't so transparent he wouldn't have near the following that he does have. It is hard to overestimate the effect that overbearing US policy has on strengthening the appeal of hard core Islam.

[MADem]

169. He's not an anti-imperalist, either--ask the Lebanese! Among others... nt

[MADem]

168. What? You seem to be ignoring Ahmadinejad's imperialist designs on

Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and the Holy Places, Afghanistan, and Lebanon...and Palestine....and that's just for starters.

I guess Persian Imperialism is softer, gentler, fluffier? I don't need to hear the "US is just as bad" argument, either. We're not talking about the US, we're talking about Iran.

Most nations in the Arab world are not happy about Iran's adventurism in the Arab world either--because Persians are NOT Arabs, their language and culture is separate and distinct, and their meddling in Arab societies harks back to ancient days of Persian Imperialism, which are still sources of historical resentment across the region.

[reggie the dog]

157. it is about oil

When Chavez and his country nationalized their oil operations they lost many experts. Their ally against american economic imperialism was and still is Iran. So Iran sent over many oil experts to help Venezuela keep the oil flowing. It is politics.

[blindpig]

160. Stop making sense. n/t

[subcomhd]

180. hasn't

the EU recognized him too? I hope they drag the fucker in the streets and kill him - but I'm not trying to conduct the foreign policy of a specific country - with all the complexities that brings. Chavez sucked up to the Ayatolas because they were enemies of the US (specifically the Bush regime) - which tried to cancel Venezuela's election and deposed (briefly)their democratically elected leader. But why single out Venezuela of all the other countries that have recognized Ama-dicknot as the winner?

[JVS]

186. People are missing the obvious on this one. If Iraq and Iran are both knocked out of the...

"Axis of evil" then what two countries get promoted to numbers 2 and 3 after North Korea? Such a situation would be bad for Chavez