Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Are we seeing the results of US covert destabilization ops in Iran?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:51 AM
Original message
Are we seeing the results of US covert destabilization ops in Iran?
Interview on US ops designed to destabilize the Iranian government...

Covert Operations In Iran
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92025860



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. God, I hope not.
We really need to get out of that game. It's wrong and we get blowback every single time we fuck with other countries like that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. No matter, It's all Obama's fault anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'm pretty sure this is still the fault of...
President Clinton :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yeah. Bush kept us safe from war with Iran.....He thought they were Iraq...nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Try to hang on
The WAAAAAH-mbulance is on its way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Oh, do you need one???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Even the strongest critics of U.S. Middle East policy seem to think the election really was stolen
I've had Al Jazeera on constantly and the seem to think it probably was.

Actually there is almost unanimity among even the strongest critics of American policy that the election was most likely stolen or at the very least riddled with enormous fraud.

With only a few rare exceptions even the strongest critics of American policy in the Middle East are convinced this was a stolen election. What concerns some progressives most is that this stolen election will be used by the neocons and other reactionaries for retching up the rhetoric toward a military strike on Iran.

Absolutely nothing would harm the pro-democracy and pro-reform forces in Iran more than and play into the hands of the theocratic hardliners more than the appearance that the pro-democracy, pro-reform movement are stooges for the United States.

There was a good article today on Alternet by Steven Zunes. Also Juan Cole who strongly argued against and exposed the dishonest media propaganda that claimed that Ahmadinejad advocated launching a nuclear attack against Israel, still Dr. Cole has come out very clear in two different articles clearly laying out the case that the election was likely stolen. Professor Cole has lived and studied in Iran and is fluent in Farsi and is an Iranian expert and a strong supporter of America establishing friendly relations with Iran.




Has the Election Been Stolen in Iran?


http://www.alternet.org/world/140626/has_the_election_been_stolen_in_iran/?page=1

If it is true that Ahmadinejad's victory is fraudulent, it'll be a dream come true for those pushing a more confrontational approach with Iran.

By Stephen Zunes, AlterNet. Posted June 13, 2009.

Stephen Zunes is a professor of Politics and chair of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of San Francisco and serves as a senior policy analyst for Foreign Policy in Focus.

http://www.alternet.org/world/140626/has_the_election_b... /

"It is certainly not unprecedented for Western observers to miscalculate the outcome of an election in a country where pre-election polls are not as rigorous as Western countries, particularly when there is a clear bias towards a particular candidate. At the same time, the predictions of knowledgeable Iranian observers from various countries and from across the political spectrum were nearly unanimous in the belief that the leading challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi would defeat incumbent president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad decisively in yesterday’s presidential election, certainly in the runoff if not in the first round. This also appeared to be the assumption among independent observers in Iran itself.

So overwhelming were the signs of imminent Ahmadinejad defeat and so massive was the margin of his alleged victory, the only reasonable assumption was that there has been fraud on a massive scale. What polls did exist showed Mousavi leading by a clear majority and Ahmadinejad well under 40%, a margin roughly similar to what most analysts had suggested based on anecdotal evidence. Instead, the official results show Ahmadinejad winning by an overwhelming 63% of the vote. "

snip: "There are also more direct indications of fraud.

In past elections, there have been substantial variations in the vote of various candidates based on ethnicity and geography, but the official results show Ahmadinejad’s vote totals being relatively uniform across the country. Mousavi, an Azeri from the province of Azerbaijan who has been quite popular there, did poorly, according to official results. This is particularly striking since even minor candidates from that area had done disproportionately well in previous elections. Similarly, Mehdi Karoubi, the other reformist candidate and an ethnic Lur, supposedly fared poorly in his home province of Luristan. Nationally, Karoubi went from 17% in the 2005 election to less than 1% this year with no apparent reason for such a precipitous decline. Meanwhile, the much-despised Mohsen Rezaie, the other hardline candidate, allegedly got twice as many votes."

snip: "The stealing of the Iranian presidential elections is a dream come true for American neo-conservatives and others pushing for a more confrontational approach with Iran. It is imperative that we not allow the hard-liners of either country an illegitimate victory and give our support to Iranian democrats in their struggle to reclaim their country."

link to full article:

http://www.alternet.org/world/140626/has_the_election_been_stolen_in_iran/?page=1





Ahmadinejad reelected under cloud of fraud


By Juan Cole

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/06/13/iran /

"Obama administration officials were privately casting doubt on the announced vote tallies. They pointed out that it was unlikely that Ahmadinejad had defeated his chief opponent, Mir-Hossein Moussavi, by a margin of 57 percent, in Moussavi's own home city of Tabriz. Nor is it plausible, as claimed, that Ahmadinejad won a majority of votes in the capital, Tehran, from which he hails. The final tally also gave only 320,000 votes to the other reformist candidate, Mehdi Karoubi, who had helped force Ahmadinejad into a runoff election when he ran in 2005. It seems odd that he get less than 1 percent of the votes in this round. Karoubi, an ethnic Lur from Iran's west, was even alleged to have done poorly in those provinces.

The final vote counts alleged for cities and provinces, even more so than the landslide claimed by the incumbent nationally, strongly suggest a last-minute and clumsy fraud. A carefully planned theft of the election would at least have conceded Tabriz to Moussavi and the rural western Iranian villages to Karoubi."

snip: "The primary challenger to incumbent Ahmadinejad, former Prime Minister Mir-Hossein Moussavi, was widely thought to have a number of crucial constituencies behind him. Urban youth and women, who had elected a reformist president in 1997 and 2001, showed enthusiasm for Moussavi. He also showed an ability to bring out big crowds in his native Azerbaijan, where a Turkic language, Azeri, is spoken rather than Persian. (Azeris constitute about a third of the Iranian population.) It was expected that if the turnout was large, that would help Moussavi.

But not only did Iran's Electoral Commission announce that Ahmadinejad had won almost two-thirds of the general vote, it also gave him big majorities in major cities such as Tehran and Tabriz (the latter is the capital of Azerbaijan). These results seemed unbelievable not only to Moussavi supporters but to many professional Iran observers."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/06/13/iran /





Saturday, June 13, 2009

Stealing the Iranian Election
by Juan Cole


http://juancole.com/2009/06/stealing-iranian-election.html

Top Pieces of Evidence that the Iranian Presidential Election Was Stolen

1. It is claimed that Ahmadinejad won the city of Tabriz with 57%. His main opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, is an Azeri from Azerbaijan province, of which Tabriz is the capital. Mousavi, according to such polls as exist in Iran and widespread anecdotal evidence, did better in cities and is popular in Azerbaijan. Certainly, his rallies there were very well attended. So for an Azeri urban center to go so heavily for Ahmadinejad just makes no sense. In past elections, Azeris voted disproportionately for even minor presidential candidates who hailed from that province.

2. Ahmadinejad is claimed to have taken Tehran by over 50%. Again, he is not popular in the cities, even, as he claims, in the poor neighborhoods, in part because his policies have produced high inflation and high unemployment. That he should have won Tehran is so unlikely as to raise real questions about these numbers.

3. It is claimed that cleric Mehdi Karoubi, the other reformist candidate, received 320,000 votes, and that he did poorly in Iran's western provinces, even losing in Luristan. He is a Lur and is popular in the west, including in Kurdistan. Karoubi received 17 percent of the vote in the first round of presidential elections in 2005. While it is possible that his support has substantially declined since then, it is hard to believe that he would get less than one percent of the vote. Moreover, he should have at least done well in the west, which he did not.

link to full article:

http://juancole.com/2009/06/stealing-iranian-election.html


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Unlikely
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 12:21 PM by kenny blankenship
The Revolutionary Islamic Supreme Council of Fucktards that govern Iran are trying to maintain an inherently unstable system of government. It's a religious despotism that regularly overrules and kicks aside democratic institutions that it allows to exist mainly for show. It's also a Revolutionary government that is trying to restore a medieval social order on a country that has a substantial 21st century modern, educated, urban population living in its most important cities, doing its most important work. This core of educated people are thwarted by Iran's backward looking, heavy handed government and its unending friction with the rest of the world. Iran's anti-modern revolution is almost 30 years old now and headed for the compost heap.

There's quite enough internal contradiction and frustration tearing at Iranian society to produce the earthquake we're feeling now.

Watch The Circle to get a feel for how the Islamic Revolution breeds loathing for its authority. You might think it's mainly a feminist narrative, but anyone male or female living in a liberal democracy should be able to relate to the fear that the women characters feel for the omnipresent police.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Of course
It's well-known by all DU savants that the US is behind every instance of internal dissent against adversary regimes.

After all, those dissidents would have nothing to complain about without guidance and direction from the CIA, USAID, and the Peace Corps.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. Poor Ahmadinejad. Why is America making people dislike him?
These MFs have long belonged on the dungheap of history.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. I don't think so
Not this time.

I actually think it may be a military coup.

I have a feeling the Ayatollah was going to go with the election results. That even *he* was told what to do.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. why would they be mutually exclusive?
All Things Considered, July 2, 2008 ·

This week's New Yorker magazine reports on increased covert operations against Iran. The U.S. says no talks with Iran are possible before Tehran suspends its nuclear program. That is unlikely to happen, leaving Washington's plans open to question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. Because those brownish people can't do anything themselves.
We don't win a damn thing with destabilization, except increase the chances of nuclear components falling into the nuttiest possible hands.

Imagining that nothing can happen in this world without a white anglo saxon man in a suit pulling the strings is RACISM.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yep, it seems like even many so-called "progressives" think the world revolves around us.
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Not at all. So called "progressives" can fathom that there's more than 1 thing
going on here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. sure it is....the fact that not one single regime change in iran has occurred without us, british or
other western "help" for 100 years is totally irrelevant. *this* is a first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. another US-sponsored coup?
That first one worked out so well...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. The US has been encouraging Iranian dissidents -- but this seems different
The US seems to have been inciting Baluchi terrorists, promoting those Iranian exiles who are prepared to hang out with the Neocons -- many of them from wealthy families that had prospered under the Shah -- and attempting to train Iranian "pro-democracy" activists. All of that is undeniable.

But this doesn't feel like it's connected with any of that. Mousavi is certainly not a US puppet, and his supporters are not in the pay of the CIA. The US didn't incite Ahmadinejad to steal an election in order to destabilize the country.

In fact, a strong, democratic Iran is the last things the regime change guys and the Israelis would like to see. They want Iran weak, fragmented, and backwards. If they could slice off the Baluchis and some of the other ethnic minorities (particularly the oil-rich provinces on the Persian Gulf) and leave a much-reduced and nearly land-locked Iran under a corrupt government with no ambitions to be a significant player in the region, that would make them as happy as clams.

What's going on now doesn't seem to trend in that direction. No doubt there are those in the US who would like to exploit it to their own ends, but I don't see all that much of an opening for them to do so. Continuing chaos as in the Balkans is their most likely game plan -- but at this point, that looks like the least likely outcome. Iran is no Yugoslavia, and the deep divides just aren't there.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. No and Sy Hersh has been dead wrong about pretty much everything Iran related
Sy Hersh has done some great reporting on a vast number of subjects. Iran is not one of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. It sure has the look of another NED Regime Change Special -- "Color Revolution #9"
It works to the Iran hawks' advantage to get the Iranian people riled up and throw the country into chaos. The hardliners will crack down on the hapless students and reformers who have no idea how they're being manipulated, the Western liberals will shriek in dismay, and the push for war is made that much easier by everyone believing that the election was "stolen" -- and therefore Ahmedinejad is an illegitimate leader who can not be dealt with on principle.

It's really fascinating to watch.

Color Revolution ingredients:

- insertion of operatives (check)
- "color" (check)
- facebook, cellphone, fax, email, students (check)
- NGO's (check)
- polarization (check)
- street protest (check)

Yes, the educated and wealthy Iranian elites despise Ahmedinejad, just like the wealthy Venezuelan elites despise Hugo Chavez. Yet Chavez wins his elections by 60% also. That's because the elites are outnumbered.

I'm sorry Ahmedinejad won, but it's not really surprising. He is, in fact popular in the provinces despite what the Western media would have you believe.

sw


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yep. Also: - preprinted placards with english protest slogans (check)
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 05:40 PM by Billy Burnett
Ran across this just now...



From this Iran protests slideshow http://www.flickr.com/photos/mousavi1388/show
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I also saw one last night with Ahmadinejad's pix that said
"I love you forever"

lol

I'd be surprised if we weren't stirring sh!t up in Iran right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I'll be sure it to add it to the list (which I copped from someone else at a different site).
I really wish people would learn to be skeptical about what they perceive to be "good" as well as about what they perceive to be "bad".

There's way too much binary thinking going on about this. Thanks for the OP.

sw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. This is impt and it should be an OP. Nails it - I just said that I'm waiting for the incubators
And all this chaos will be the excuse for a brutal crack-down, all to the advantage of the hawks.

I just hope the slavering morons of all political stripes who lapped up the crap about Iraq don't do this (yet) again, all over (yet) again. I remember in 2003, if you tried to point out that an invasion and war would only make the lives of the most vulnerable Iraqis -- as well as the social fabric of the society as a whole -- worse, god help you.

I hope I'm wrong -- I want to be wrong very badly. But I've noticed too that it seems like a checklist. I'm watching very carefully what the War Lovin' Corporate Media says in their op-ed pages in the next couple of weeks. I hope I don't start seeing calls to "take action."

The bloody cycle continues, the players wearing the masks just change...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC