Given the rumors out of S.C. should Lindsey Graham resign from the Air Force Reserves (DADT)

[wndycty]

From: an interview with Linda Ketner http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/30/blue-america-meet-linda-ketner/

"I asked her if she thought being upfront about being gay, even campaigning with her partner of 9 years, Beth Huntley, impacted the race. "When you lose by such a tight margin, anything could have played a role." In focus groups she found that people didn't care about her personal sexual preference but respected her honesty. "We have more gay people serving in South Carolina than probably in anyplace in the United States; they're just not out of the closet. We have an awful lot of people in the closet-- Lindsey Graham, Glenn McConnell who's our Senate president pro tem, our Lt Governor... I obviously lost the conservative, religious crazy vote, but I would have anyway because I'm pro-choice... It got more national attention than it did local attention; it was no secret to anybody around here." She actually won in Charleston County."

I do think someone needs to ask Graham 1) to state his position on "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and 2) what his response to the rumors is.

So I must ask should Graham resign?

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. He only would legally have to resign if he admitted the rumors were true

[Lyric]

10. Wrong. If someone else reports on him, even if he denies it, he's gone.

You don't have to admit shit. There just needs to be one person willing to swear that you're gay--nothing else.

See the problem?

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. So, is there anyone who is willing to testify under oath that they know for a fact that he is gay?

:shrug:

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. No, if someone else gives evidence he is gay -

"cuz I said so" is not evidence.

Now, if there is a SECOND person who corroborates the first, THEN he's gone.

[Lyric]

15. Tell that to this guy:

http://www.2news.tv/news/local/46278087.html

BOISE - His entire 18 year professional career has been in the U.S. Air Force, most recently stationed in Mountain Home.

But now, Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach is being discharged for homosexual conduct.

Speaking only to CBS 2 Eyewitness News, Fehrenbach says he's gone through every single emotion imaginable, saying that being kicked out of the military has been "utterly devastating."

"I played by the rules," he said. "I did my part. I kept my private life private. Again, this wasn't voluntary. I didn't come out and challenge the law. In some ways the law challenged me."

...

Fehrenbach says he is a combat veteran of three wars. He says the investigation actually began a year ago after a civilian turned him in to Air Force officials. It wasn't until last week that he says he finally came out not just to his colleagues, but to his family, too.

He didn't admit anything, but they investigated him on the word of ONE civilian. One. And we all know that once it's to the point of an official investigation, you're already gone. They're just looking for paperwork fodder to make it legit.

[Staph]

14. One knowledgeable person can sink him.

Sexual orientation will not be a bar to service unless manifested by homosexual conduct. The military will discharge members who engage in homosexual conduct, which is defined as a homosexual act, a statement that the member is homosexual or bisexual, or a marriage or attempted marriage to someone of the same gender.

– quoted in "The Pentagon's New Policy Guidelines on Homosexuals in the Military", The New York Times (July 20, 1993), p.A14.

I read this to say that if any person has knowledge of Graham's engaging in homosexual conduct, and that person is willing to share that knowledge, then Senator Graham will be dishonorably discharged. Based on some of the cases that Rachel Maddow has been reporting on lately, he won't have any options.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

18. he was “outed” by a stream of anonymous e-mails ............

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14052513/

OHNSON CITY, Tenn. - A decorated sergeant and Arabic language specialist was dismissed from the U.S. Army under the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy, though he says he never admitted being gay and his accuser was never identified.

Bleu Copas, 30, told The Associated Press he is gay, but said he was “outed” by a stream of anonymous e-mails to his superiors in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, N.C.

“I knew the policy going in,” Copas said in an interview on the campus of East Tennessee State University, where he is pursuing a master’s degree in counseling and working as a student adviser. “I knew it was going to be difficult.”

[KamaAina]

2. Hell no!

DADT is stupid and obsolete. :grr:

Besides, if he resigns, he can't be called up and deployed to a dangerous combat zone in Afghanistan. :evilgrin:

[old mark]

3. IF he is gay, and a service member, the same rules that apply to everyone else

should apply to Mr. Graham. If they do not apply DADT to him, it should not be applied to anyone else ever again.
No one is above the law, even if the law is stupid.
It is stupid and should be changed immediately, but it is in effect at the moment, so he should be discharged.

mark

[wndycty]

4. I have a follow up question, what happens to service members who are presumed to be gay?

Are they questioned by superiors or is action taken only after they come out of the closet. I ask because I want to know if anyone has been forced out based upon suspicion/rumor/allegations.

[brendan120678]

6. I think it is called, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" for a reason...

They are not supposed to ask you, you are not supposed to tell.

[brendan120678]

5. I'm not sure what position Graham takes on DADT...

but his sexual preference is his business.

[Starry Messenger]

7. No. Bogus law is bogus.

People deserve equality. Even Republicans who might be gay. That's what this country is about. We don't get to pick and choose who gets equal rights.

[wndycty]

8. I would agree, however how do you feel about someone who could impact the law. . .

. . .standing silent and watching other folks having to deal with its consequences?

[Starry Messenger]

9. They shouldn't have their rights impaired.

My feelings shouldn't change that. If you have a different idea for how they should be dealt with, that would be a different poll.

[Hepburn]

17. Starry, I agree with you.

The law is bad regardless of who it impacts upon. That said ~~ Graham, IMO, most likely is gay and he is a hypocrite of the first order for what he is doing on this subject. I could not care less if he is or is not gay ~~ I do care, however, about having an asshole like this in a national office who is such a HUGE hypocrite. Dishonesty, total dishonesty, on this and that is why I find him offensive.

JMHO

[Starry Messenger]

19. Well, absolutely.

:) I agree with you as well. A little time at Camp Humility certainly wouldn't hurt him. But I wasn't sure where the OP was going with this. A lot of our politicians are dishonest, but I don't think meddling with their rights is the way to go. Except their "right" to be in office and to be publicly criticized if they are being hypocrites. That we can vote on and write about. :D I'm all for that.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

13. Seems like an investigation is in order

After all, even though we have DADT, it seems like the army is still conducting "witch hunts," which were supposed to be forbidden under DADT (or so we were told). Since an accusation of homosexuality has been made, the army needs to follow through, right?

[bluedawg12]

26. No the military needs to stop discharging gay service members.

The law needs to be changed and the President needs to stop the discharges of everyone, even Republican closeted gays.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

30. Well, I definitely agree with that

I was just trying to be a little snarky. There are few things in politics that I dislike than anti-gay gays

[Hepburn]

16. I could not care less if he is or is not gay...

... but he is an asshole of the first order and should not be allowed close to the human species for any reason.

JMHO

[dixiegrrrrl]

20. On the positive side...he won't re-produce !

[Hepburn]

25. Now THAT is a positive thought! n/t

[cboy4]

21. Definitely voted he should not have to resign, even though this is a question

based on a reckless rumor.

Civil rights (especially this evil DADT discrimination), should absolutely not be implemented, based and altered on political affiliation .. even if the person in question is a pathetic scumbag.

Why would you insinuate someone should lose their title based on a rumor?

I'm fiercely opposed to discrimination across the board.

[MrSlayer]

22. He'd have to "tell" and he hasn't. So, no.

Seems elementary.

[bluedawg12]

23. No one should be forced to resign from the military for being gay. n/t

[ecstatic]

24. I think this topic deserves a public debate

But is anyone bold enough to bring it up on TV?

[Thrill]

27. If Lindsey came out of the closet. He would need Secret Service protection in South Carolina

:)

[JI7]

28. i'm guessing because HE isn't the one "telling" nothing happens

and they aren't allowed to ask him.

[McCamy Taylor]

29. Sexual preference has nothing to do with combat readiness. If it did, a whole

lot of battles in ancient Greece would have turned out differently.

I am not convinced that Graham is gay, however. A lot of southern men who talk the way he talks are straight.