JP Morgan hires oil tanker to STORE OIL!!!!!!!!

[uponit7771]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL365078320090603

These people are BASTARDS!!!!

Some a-hole will be telling you in less than a month that the reason gas is at 5$ is because of "supply"...

eom

[RB TexLa]

1. Do you believe there is something that requires someone to sell oil they own?

I have enough of a working interest in some wells on my land to do this, and guess what, I haven't been selling my at the prices offered until recently.

[uponit7771]

2. DK, I do believe they're gonna run up the price of oil before the summer ends.

...eom

[SoCalNative]

4. Then YOU are a part of the problem as well

eom

[depakid]

52. Nah, he just has some and YOU want it

not only that, but you in SoCal created an utterly unsustainable and wasteful lifestyle, wholly dependent on petroleum.

In other words- get ready to see a LOT of things that really suck as gas prices rise.

[JVS]

6. Do you think that it serves the interest of the public to bestow personhood on a group that would...

use its power to embargo the country?

The right to property is not absolute. If I buy a house, I cannot use it as a factory. Nor am I allowed to use an automobile in public as a cigarette lighter by rigging it to catch fire from which I can then light the cigarette.

[RB TexLa]

9. Do you think you should be required to sell that house when the market is down for houses?

And that you are "part of the problem" if you don't wish to sell the house when the market is down?

[JVS]

16. As an individual such a decision would not matter. But if a large enough entity gamed the market...

it can and should be broken up.

[Hannah Bell]

18. If you were holding a major chunk of the housing supply, yes.

But housing is not a very concentrated commodity - unlike oil.

And the speculative market for oil makes collusion & cartel driving prices highly possible, unlike housing.

[JVS]

20. Oh one more thing. There is a limit on how far into the future a futures contract can be bought.

I see no problem with extending the limits to material goods rather than the paper representing those good. If JP Morgan doesn't want to sell oil for a long period of time, perhaps they shouldn't be buying it to put in storage at all.

[RB TexLa]

27. Exactly how is a company buying something and holding it until there is a better price "bestowing

personhood" on them?

[Sebastian Doyle]

28. When it's a CRIMINAL Wall Street bank that's already destroying the economy for self gain

I'd say that anyone trying to justify their theft is as vile as they are.

JP Morgan is burning in Hell, and his descendants (biological and otherwise) should all go there

[RB TexLa]

29. What have they stolen?

They have paid for the product and own it. They are going to hold it for a better selling price. How is that stealing?

[Sebastian Doyle]

31. In the first place it should be FUCKING ILLEGAL for a bank to own anything connected with energy.

The last thing we need is the two most corrupt industries on the planet combined.

Nationalize the banks. Nationalize the oil. Take out the Wall Street Criminals Louis XVI style.

And yes, I'm completely serious. Fuck these criminals. It's time they got what they deserve.

[Sebastian Doyle]

38. Oh, and by the way.....

They "bought" that oil with STOLEN money from the US taxpayers.

[RB TexLa]

39. They have tried to pay the government it's money back and they won't let them

They have let smaller banks pay back the government money but have yet allowed any of the larger banks who want to pay it back do so.

[girl gone mad]

42. Nonsense.

[RB TexLa]

44. They met the terms and then the government changed the terms.

June 3 (Bloomberg) -- Federal Reserve officials surprised bankers in the past week by demanding they raise specific amounts of new capital before repaying taxpayer funds, applying a more stringent assessment than the stress tests in May.

JPMorgan Chase & Co. and American Express Co. were told they need to boost common equity, less than four weeks after being informed they had enough to withstand a deeper economic slump. Morgan Stanley was directed to raise more funds after already selling stock to cover its stress-test shortfall. One firm was told June 1, people with direct knowledge said.




http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ajQ3cx_jGULI

[Hannah Bell]

54. They've bought it specifically to game the so-called "free market".

and because they control beaucoup capital, they're able to act as a price maker.

it's price manipulation by virtue of concentrated capital.

more than 12 billion from the US taxpayer.

That's how they'll "pay it back," by raping them a third time.

[JVS]

33. I DON'T ANSWER STUPID QUESTIONS FOR YOU!!! Fucking Christ, your last post looks like an Eliza line.

[Chulanowa]

47. Large corporations were bestowed "personhood" back in the 80's

What this means is that they have the rights of an individual. Property rights, first amendment rights, even to some degree, political rights. of course a corporation is not really a person, it's several very wealthy people. it also have numerous tax shelters and loopholes not available to any person.

Now, you ask, "what's wrong with speculating with my property"? Well, are you talking an oil tanker or two full of oil, or just, what, a couple dozen barrels? it may surprise you, but there's quite a difference.

You see, your couple dozen barrels of oil aren't even a drop in the overall supply. Your possession of them causes no injury to either the market or the consumer. Your possession of some oil doesn't cause the market price to go up. Instead it's something you're holding on for when the prices do go up. That's an investment, and it's perfectly sound.

However. JP Morgan is squirreling away a few million barrels of the stuff - and I'll bet there are several other companies doing the same. They aren't waiting for the price to go up, they are causing the price to go up. It's a form of price fixing, and if you tried something similar with your business, you would have the feds up your ass faster than a proctologist who loves his job.

[RB TexLa]

48. Just a quick question. If "Defiance is a virtue" as it says in your signature line

wouldn't someone defying the government's price fixing rules be virtuous?

[Chulanowa]

50. Heh. I can always tell when someone has no better argument

They always ask why I'm not a sweet, saintly, kindly little meek dude like my avatar, or start up the "WOLVERINES! RAT-TATATATAT!" act about my signature.

Thank you, Mohandas and Wu Kong, you're both very handy for this. Maybe I should switch back to Sitting Bull and the Marx / Lennon signature.

To answer your question, no. Blind defiance is not a virtue, just like blind faith is not. The rules against price fixing are in place as consumer protection. You might as well be asking me if defying the law by going around mugging people is a virtue. Your question is inane and borderline idiotic.

[RB TexLa]

51. Wasn't part of an argument, I just found it slightly humorous.

No big deal.

[Taverner]

17. Individuals, no. Corporations, yes

Honestly, we need to stop treating corps like they are people

[girl gone mad]

41. It's called..

eminent domain. People are forced to sell their land all of the time if the county or state believes it can be put to better use.

As Iraqi's oil minister said recently, future generations can benefit more from use of the oil. Storing it in tankers is a waste of resources, not to mention dangerous.

[peacetalksforall]

3. Self delete - dupe.

[peacetalksforall]

5. The barons are revealing themselves. Take our money - over and over and over and over.

We are so screwed.

[uponit7771]

8. Yeap, this isn't an OPEC driven drive up in gas prices either. Gas storage is at an all time high

...and the only reason we're seeing higher gas prices is because of refinery closings.

These people are sons of Satan no doubt.

I watch gas futures and there's NO REASON why we should be over 1.25!!!

[JVS]

7. I hope pirates sink them

[NightWatcher]

10. that would be an environmental disaster. I'd prefer pirates steal the oil and start

Pirate Oil and Gas

Fill-RRRRRRRRRRR-Up

[uponit7771]

14. Yeap, refine the oil into kerosene and sell it to airlines for super cheap...

...and tank the gas commodities!!

[uponit7771]

12. They'll use that as an excuse to run prices up more!! I work in financials and can see

...gas storage is at an all time high and so is oil storage because ....folk aren't driving as much!!

gas futures are up because of cuts in refinery production!!!

These people are sons of satan!!

[Romulox]

11. Remember when the Obama admin said they were going to step up enforcement of anti-trust laws?

Well, the entire oil industry is built on the concept of a "cartel", but not a peep from AG Holder... :shrug:

[uponit7771]

13. The CFTC was sent to .............LONDON, yeap the Bush admin sent the CFTC to London

...and the Obama admin has to work to get the SEC back from a laughing stock to something that'll enforce securities laws.

You can see daily trading metrics were the big banks break laws out in the open but there's no one there to enforce them.

Yes, the DEPTH of how much we were screwed due to "free market" bastards is just coming out.

[Junkdrawer]

15. Wonder if they have a heads-up on an event that will send oil through the roof...

Say an Israeli attack on Iran? :scared:

[ieoeja]

19. They believe prices only went down because the economy collapsed.

And that, when the economy recovers, prices will go back up to those pre-collapse record levels. So they are buying up oil at $75/barrel today expecting to sell it at $150/barrel in a year.

If it does not, then JPMorgan-Chase will need another bailout....

[JVS]

21. They're going to choke off the economy's ability to recover.

Everything is already fucked up, we don't need the insolvent banker shits using all the money to make energy more expensive instead of easing credit markets. This kind of bullshit is exactly what justifies Stalin's economic policies. For them it was with food. See Scissors crisis.

[ieoeja]

22. Bankers would have to be pretty stupid to do that. As someone who once worked for a major bank...

I can assure, they have some of the least brilliant minds in the world. There is every way they could be so obtuse as to do something this incredibly ignorant.

[JVS]

23. Never underestimate the greed and stupidity of the people who gave us this banking crash.

[uponit7771]

25. The value of the dollar also drives up oil prices and that's most likely right now...

...sense Bernanke has shot his last bullet at treasuries and we're not going to buy any of the back.

The chinese buying gold was a tell tale of the US economy in up coming months.

[uponit7771]

24. DK, but dollar losing value is something that drives up oil prices since...

...they drill it then sell it on open market

[Igel]

26. It's not oil. It's gasoil.

Read the article.

Gasoil (or 'gas oil') is not crude oil, nor is it gasoline.

Gasoil cannot be refined to gasoline, or at least you'd have to crack it (if it's possible even then, given commercial technology).

"Gas oils include diesel fuel, heating oil, and light fuel oils." So there's diesel, heating oil, and light fuel oils (probably kerosene, but that's a guess and I'm not going to dig to check if I'm right). Notice what they are: The fractions that aren't in high demand now. What's taken out? Gasoline, asphalt, and other things that can be sold. Presumably the gasoil is being stored there because that's about the cheapest place to store it, and the supply will be put on the market come fall when heating oil is in demand.

In any event, it's not driving up the cost of gasoline.

[Occulus]

30. Could it drive up the cost of heating oil in six months' time if this behavior becomes

a fad amongst these corporations?

Are we going to see another winter with people freezing for lack of affordable heating oil?

This isn't a matter of national security or market stability- the affordability of heating oil is a matter of life and death for many people in the Midwest and the New England states. IMO, that makes it worse than if they were hoarding gasoline.

-Occulus, who would have froze when he was ten after an ice storm but for inexpensive natural gas so his parents could heat the house

[JVS]

34. Storing in tankers is like parking trucks on a highway. It slows the flow of fuel from companies...

willing to sell at current market prices by taking tankers out of action. We're being blockaded by the banks we pay taxes to keep intact and some twunts think that it's ok for corporations to do whatever they choose because it's their oil,

[A HERETIC I AM]

35. How dare you read the article and then post a reasonable summation.

You are supposed to jump up and down with a sense of utter indignation because :::GASP!::: a company in the business of making money actually did something that might make them money.

It is probably very close to Kerosene, as that is essentially what jet fuel is and it's very close to Diesel. Airline traffic is down, truck traffic is down, it's warm in the Northern hemisphere and heating oil use is down and there is obviously a glut of this fuel in the European market.

A fall in oil demand this year has forced oil companies to store crude oil and middle distillates, mainly gas oil for heating and jet fuel, in tanks on land and tankers anchored at sea.

The bulk of middle distillates stored in tankers have been held in floating storage in Europe, where oil demand has been falling more sharply than the rest of the world...

It's probably one tanker in a sea of them in the Med.

I'm curious if the outrage would be so pronounced if it was found out JPM was storing 5 million bushels of wheat in Kansas or holding 200,000 head of cattle in a feedlot somewhere.

[anigbrowl]

45. I'm not even that sure they're going to make money on it

There's a glut at present; the US has 57 days' supply of oil reserves, which is unusually high. There is no supply shortage, just the usual summer demand peak. The price of gas goes up every damn summer because people drive more in the summer months (and will do so more than usual this year, given the cost of flying somewhere for a vacation vs traveling locally for a shorter period). Most likely it would have cost JPM more to roll over the contract than to take delivery and park it somewhere while they look for a buyer at the market price.

[havocmom]

32. blaming price surges on market demands, then controlling the market...

Could RICO apply to this racket?

[TwixVoy]

36. One oil tanker

will have just about zero impact on gas prices. I don't think you realize how much oil is flowing around the world compared to how much can be stored on one tanker.....

[L0oniX]

37. If it was hash oil I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[unblock]

40. much better to let the saudis store it underground, i suppose?

[Subdivisions]

43. Ummmm...if JPM is creating a supply shortage because they're storing oil...

wouldn't the reason for $5 gas be because of "supply"?

:eyes:

[anigbrowl]

46. There is no supply shortage

and even if there was, the amount of oil in a single tanker is not enough to impact the price significantly. In fact, prices of oil are going down due to oversupply. Gas prices always go up in spring and early summer, just as prices of fuel oil are always highest in fall and winter.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world_business/view/433734/1/.html

[Kansas Wyatt]

49. Remember when gas went sky high, right before the banks needed a bailout?

Well guess who has been telling everyone that they do not need the government bailout money anymore and want to give it back?

The very same fucking bastards driving up gas prices today. Ill gotten gains is the same as theft, yet our alleged government does NOTHING, nor do our alleged representatives.

[w4rma]

53. JP Morgan should have been allowed to fail. Unfortunately, they are still here scamming us. (nt)

[Angleae]

55. Just how much do you people think this will raise prices?

That tanker carries 2 million barrels. The US burns through 20+ million barrels daily. They're hoarding about 2.25 hours worth.