So, I finally found a new therapist and they're a "faith based" organization apparently

[shadowknows69]

I swear if I didn't have irony in my life I wouldn't know what to do with myself lol. The friend of mine who hooked me up with them goes to this therapist herself and she did tell me the woman is a licensed Reverend, but will complete her PHD and will be a full psychiatrist within the year. I was assured that her faith doesn't intrude upon her work, but as I finished answering the preliminary questions on the phone today the receptionist told me and I'm trying to quote exactly here:

"Well as you know we're a faith based organization and we love the lord here"

I pretty much stopped him right there and said, "Well frankly, I don't consider myself a Christian and I was told that wouldn't be a factor in my therapy. Is that a problem?"

I was assured it is not and that they don't try to force anything down anyone's throats, but now I'm wary. Like I don't have enough trust issues with Christians or Doctors for that matter.

I told the intake guy that my spirituality probably would be a big part of our discussions but I wanted assurances that they would be viewed objectively.

Don't even get me started on how it fucks with me how a person can be a Reverend and a Psychiatrist at the same time and not go insane themselves.

For those that don't know me here on DU I consider myself an eclectic pagan, having rejected a fervent belief in Christianity over 20 years ago. So what do you think? Should I wear fire retardant clothing when I go for my sessions? B-)

[billyoc]

1. You'd be better off with a bag of fortune cookies or a Magic 8-ball.

[shadowknows69]

2. Problem being is that they aren't admissable evidence in a disability hearing.

[imdjh]

9. They are if you throw them at the hearing officers n/t

[shadowknows69]

15. I may have to resort to that to win

I have no faith in my lawyer either, who hasn't returned my calls in about five months. I'm not even sure he still is my lawyer.

[billyoc]

10. But THOSE lot are?!

[shadowknows69]

16. Supposedly.

[KittyWampus]

52. It sure is great we have people like you dispensing therapeutic advice.

[shadowknows69]

56. Thanks for the defend Kitty but billyoc is ok by me.

I think his tongue was firmly in cheek and he definitely shares my cynicism about religion.

[billyoc]

75. Here to help.

[Whoa_Nelly]

3. Would have to wonder

if the therapist takes those "non-believer" patient issues to the congregation, or Bible study group, so they can all pray over it :eyes:

I'd be pretty skeptical about that particular therapist as well.

[shadowknows69]

8. If they want to pray for me let them knock their socks off I guess?

Can't hurt right? If they're praying I find Jesus, they might want to save their energy. Met him, liked him, his dad was kind of an asshole, so I had to stop going to his house.

[Whoa_Nelly]

14. I would be more concerned about breach of confidentiality

Personally, I would keep on moving along to find another therapist.

[shadowknows69]

18. I've run out of choices.

Everyone is either full or too expensive.

[VelmaD]

24. *snort*

I love that line. Gonna use it every chance I get. :)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

32. lol!

That sums up my reaction to Christianity to a tee!

:hug:
good luck :)

[Mopar151]

73. That's some sane words, there.

Im' wit'cha, brotha! I'm cool with JC myself, but the guys drinkin' in the old man's furnace room look pretty sketchy to me.

[TCJ70]

36. What makes this therapist any more likely...

...to breach confidentiality than a therapist who just attends a church? Or goes bowling? Or eats dinner? Or hangs out with friends? Or drinks? Or (insert any other thing people do here)?

Anyone can agree to confidentiality, but that doesn't mean they'll keep it. I know this is a pretty cynical thought process, but what guarantee is there, really, for confidentiality?

[Whoa_Nelly]

48. Am just wondering because

have had (former) friends who went this route becasue of the (cult) church they joined, and during the time that they went that direction in their lives, they told me proudly about how the reverend/therapist would help them pray over their client issues with other members of the church because only God and Jesus can give the ultimate guidance and answer.

While not a therapy issue, these friends took almost two months of praying over and discussing my marriage and separation from a very abusive husband before telling me they had difficulty in deciding to tell me that he had bought a gun, AND that they were letting him stay weekends with them while they figured it out. These were friends of over 20 years to me, and only knew my (ex) husband for about two years because I had married him. My spouse at the time hated guns, stated he would never have one, and then went and bought a .357 from a pawn shop when I decided to get a restraining order against him because of his abuse toward me and my son.
The final decision to finally tell me my life and my son's life was in danger was made after spouse began attending their church and the reverend gave his final word that Jesus did indeed need to intervene in this situation, and that I should probably be told with the hope that I would seek salvation through their church as well.

Was a pretty frightening moment in my life when they finally told me about him and the gun.
They also were no longer people I could trust as friends.
It was very sad as well.

That's why I bring up the possibility of breach of confidentialty.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I Think You Mean He Will Be A Full Psychologist Within The Year

A psychologist has a PhD. A psychiatrist has a M.D.

Psychiatrists are medical doctors with advanced education in psychiatry.

[shadowknows69]

13. My bad. She is working on her M.D. then.

She's doing her residency with another doctor I used to see, that I had to fire because of, in my opinion, an extremely negligent act on his part.

Yes, I live in the shit-storm belt of the medical community.

[Richardo]

5. Well, if every reference to Christianity is going to set you on edge, you might try elsewhere...

...seems like that would get in the way of open and honest discussion, even if it was just in the background. :shrug:

[shadowknows69]

19. Well, I'll give her a shot.

The minute she starts quoting the Gospels instead of Jung or Freud I'm out of there.

[VelmaD]

25. I'd be just as worried...

about her quoting Freud, frankly. That man had issues.

[shadowknows69]

31. Without a doubt, but I'm a firm believer that you can't treat the insane

If you don't have a screw or two loose yourself. In that respect a person who believes in the science of the mind AND floating winged sky beings might turn out to be the perfect combination.

[katandmoon]

6. Psychiatrists are MD's, not PhD's

[shadowknows69]

20. See post 13. I was uninformed.

[Arugula Latte]

7. I'd find another therapist if I were you.

As Mark Twain said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." Who knows what mythology will enter the therapist's thinking and influence your treatment.

Good luck. :hi:

[shadowknows69]

22. Bottom of the barrel. I don't get into therapy now my SSID case is screwed.

[jobendorfer]

46. food for thought

In my humble opinion, the *whole objective* of therapy is figuring out what mythologies have you.

The issue isn't so much "who knows what mythologies will enter" -- that is a given -- but "can your therapist point out when your (or his/her own mythologies have been activated?"

If your therapist can act with reasonable objectiveness towards your issues and mythologies, then you're in good shape. If they can't -- find another one.

I, too, struggle with a deep-seated skepticism that a psychological viewpoint ( by which I mean a viewpoint that takes *psyche* as its first principle ) is reconcilable with the Christian viewpoint.

Good luck.

J.

[Happyhippychick]

11. Uh...I'm a therapist and would consider it unethical to discuss my needs with a client.

I wouldn't go there.

[dgibby]

12. If they tell you handling poisonous snakes is part of the "therapy",

run, don't walk, to the nearest exit!:evilgrin:

[joeybee12]

17. Don't go...anyone who says "we love the lord here" on a PRELIMINARY phone call..

... is part of an organization that will really, really, really try to insert their beliefs into the therapy.

[get the red out]

21. I would be cautious

I have a therapist who is Christian and a deacon (I have gotten a strong feeling that he is quite politically liberal though), and I have made it very clear that I don't do Christianity. He is very good at what he does and was a Psychologist long before he was a deacon in his church, and taught Psychology at the local public university for years as well. He has been able to separate the two and I am comfortable discussing my massive lifelong religion problems with him.

I think for me a troubling signal would have been the comments by the Receptionist. That would have scared the life out of me. My shrink is in a secular business but has a personal religious belief, having neither be secular would make me somewhat nervous.

You can always go for a session or two and decide then. The vibes you get should be pretty clear if this Psychiatrist cannot separate her religion from her practice. One good clue is that she is a "she". In my area the hate churches don't allow women a voice at all, let alone allowing them to be a Reverend. Maybe she is of a less intrusive faith?

Best wishes in this. Finding good medical help can be very trying.

[shadowknows69]

23. My friend didn't know what denomination she was.

As you said, I'm going a few times at least to check out the vibe. I have a pretty good radar for when I'm being preached to as opposed to being treated.

[ColbertWatcher]

26. Are there no other doctors? n/t

[shadowknows69]

28. If you have 200+ bucks for an hour (usually 45 minutes at best). I don't.

[ColbertWatcher]

40. This doctor is working at some low-cost clinic?

Does this clinic get government money?

[shadowknows69]

42. I think maybe. Perhaps they were legally bound to disclose the Faith Based org thing.

[ColbertWatcher]

57. This is why I hoped Obama would have ended the faith based crap.

Maybe we need a Constitutional amendment that says--without equivocation--that the government is a separate entity from any church?

[shadowknows69]

60. Amen to that, but if it helps me in the short term

I guess I'll have to at least give it a "golf clap". Hopefully some genuinely good people are using these initiatives to actually help people with an open and objective mind. At the very least I'll be able to do a little "imbedded" reporting on it. If it gets weird and evangelical enough I'll expose the shit.

[ColbertWatcher]

66. If?

If it gets weird?

You got Jesused during the initial phone call!

The faith based crap was designed specifically to funnel cash to the preferred faith, because they weren't involved in defense contracts and the government still had money for the taking.

I hope you get the help you need, but I don't believe every law this country was founded on must get trampled to do it.

Of course, I don't mean you are breaking the laws, I mean the clinic.

The people at that clinic can perform therapy without resorting to superstition.

[shadowknows69]

27. I've decided. I get to me Mr. "We love the lord here" receptionist on Tuesday next.

I'm going to greet him with an enthusiastic "As-Salamu Alaykum!!! Allah Akbar!"

[stray cat]

29. If the person were an atheist, muslim or buddhist would you want fire retardant?

[shadowknows69]

33. Well historically Buddhists didn't kill many people

Some Muslims are into the whole beheading thing and I doubt an atheist would want to kill anyone for their religious beliefs. They usually just laugh at us. Christians, however, do have a precedent for lighting up the heathens.

[stray cat]

37. Muslims have a history of war as well - are you going to hold it against them for the last 1000years

People are individuals - meet with him/her if you don't like them find some one else. Don't lump everyone together because of a preconceived bias - all of any nationality, color or believe are not evil.

[shadowknows69]

39. Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been saying to people who say I shouldn't go

I made the "flame retardant" joke because of the burning times, and it was good ole Jebus followers that did that one. I told the guy on the phone I had no problem with what they believed, but I didn't expect it to be used as a tool in my therapy, because it isn't what I believe anymore, so I won't respond to it.

[Romulox]

43. Are you serious? Pol Pot was trained at a Buddhist monastery... nt

[shadowknows69]

44. I'm pretty sure they didn't teach him to be a tyrant.

Jesus told his followers to love your enemy and turn the other cheek and that hasn't worked out so well either.

[Romulox]

55. You said, "historically, Buddhists don't kill many people." Just false, and stunningly so...

[shadowknows69]

62. Ok, so I'm wrong. Care to educate me with a link or two?

Or are you just going to wallow in the glow of being smarter than me?

[KittyWampus]

61. Buddhists don't kill many people? You have no idea about current events do you?

[Sal Minella]

70. Could you please give me a current event to google so I can educate myself?

[spoony]

79. How about reading up on Sri Lanka

Here's some good material: http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0514/p08s01-comv.html

"But in 2006, after a Norway-mediated cease-fire collapsed, the hard-line Sinhalese leaders, backed by strident Buddhist monks, decided an all-out military victory over the Tigers was necessary."

Now that isn't the problem, per se. But read on:

"But the Sinhalese-led military has been too brutal and lacking in counterinsurgency tactics, while too many government leaders make anti-Tamil comments. Dissent is stifled and the government is suspected of the recent murder of a prominent (Sinhalese) journalist who criticized their tactics."

Now go read about more of the conflict's history, and you'll find plenty of violence on either side. And how the Tamil people caught in the middle live in terror.

And no, these things aren't a reflection on Buddhism, anymore than the nutters of any other religion condemn their whole religions, but they do happen to be Buddhists, which is what you were asking about.

[Sal Minella]

80. Thank you -- for the link and for the post.

[Sal Minella]

78. I'm still hoping for a link to a news story about Buddhists killing people.

Thank you for your anticipated response.

[Ignis]

50. Christians have a history of burning witches. (nt)

[shadowknows69]

53. Thank you. I tried to explain that. I don't call myself a Wiccan anymore

But I doubt a fanatic fundie who really takes that shit to heart would make the distinction. Not in anyway thinking this person will be like that, although she might want to check her phone guy. I expect to give this therapist a challenge that I'd bet she's going to need to consult more than the Bible to figure me out. Or she'll just declare me demon possessed on the first session's end. Could go either way lol.

[Ignis]

71. I understand your discomfort.

Personally, I wouldn't want to go into a situation where I'd feel "on my guard" like this faith-based setup you describe, but sometimes you need to see for yourself.

I hope it works out for you. :hi:

[napi21]

30. I suggest you find another therapist. The MOST IMPORTANT

thing in any therapy relationship is TRUST and CONFIDENCE. You already are suspicious before you even attend the first session.

FWIW, my cousin is also a licensed psychologist with his own practice, and a licensed minister. He has what he calls a faith based practice as well. As far as I know, he doesn't preach to his patients, but there IS a religious slant.

[shadowknows69]

38. I have no problem if she uses a religious slant

Some damn good lessons in Christianity. Paricularly about finding peace within yourself. Just the secular references better at least equal if not exceed the theological ones.

[stray cat]

34. I have had friends see a fully trained therapist for free or $10 per hour

at faith based centers - god didn't even get mentioned unless the client wanted to talk about it. How many other competent counselors will meet with a college student for $10 an hour.

[Dogmudgeon]

35. It might be an excellent experience

If you have "issues" with religion and religious people, you are in the perfect situation to work on them. Neo-Pagans in (allegedly) Christian societies have the same kind of difficulties as atheists; all who "oppose" the God of the multitudes are in a similar hell-bound handbasket.

I am, personally, an atheist. But I would have no trouble accepting such a therapist if s/he had any competence at all. Most of them actually do. There are many religious psychologists and psychiatrists who are neither evangelistic nor insane. I know that it's in fashion to proclaim that religious people are, categorically, mentally ill. I have not found that to be true, although religion-induced mental illness is a common tendency. And by the same turn, Christians often look at neo-Paganism as a kind of craziness. Literally all the Christian-oriented shrinks I've met understand this -- it's the whole "we are normal, they are crackpots" routine, to which Christians are no strangers -- Alienation writ as large and vulgar as a high-piled 'do for Easter Sunday.

If the organization starts foisting the religion on you, dime them out. You'll be a hero to the several movements that oppose mandatory Christianity, and you'll be doing the whole field of psychotherapy a great service. But most church-affiliated counselors are especially careful not to mix faith and therapy -- it's one of the golden rules of pastoral counseling. Even when the client is "properly" religious, there is a need to leave the church out of things. And religious counselors are usually good at working with clients with religious mania. Andrea Yates, a religious maniac who killed several of her kids, was in that situation, but was not getting counseling, and her pastor was aware that she needed it.

I wish you the best of luck. From the point of view of being non-religious now, religious belief can be painful on its own, and its craziness tends to hang on for years after it's rejected. And accepting new forms of faith, such as neo-Paganism, can raise all kinds of guilt. Getting over all that will come as a big relief. It took me about 15 years. I lost my zeal to bash religion, which I initially didn't like, but the enhanced ability to understand it more than makes up for that.

Being free from ANY kind of compulsion is damn near a religious experience itself!

--d!
Edited to improve the focus on neo-Paganism.

[shadowknows69]

41. As I said I had no problem knowing she is a Reverend going into this

I'm really just very thankful I can find anyone to see me right now at a semi-reasonable rate. $70 an hour, first session $110. I do find it very unprofessional of their receptionist to do what he did. It might be a law that they have to disclose that they're a faith based org., but the "We love the lord here" was definitely an embellishment on any such regulation and I probably will tell my therapist I thought it was mildly inappropriate and almost lost her my business.

[Dogmudgeon]

59. Yeah, that was a little over-the-top

Chances are that the proclamation of their love came because they thought you were there as a fellow believer.

I should have been clearer about the idea of working with one's religious issues. These days especially, a lot of people, even the religious, have a lot of angst for religion, even though they may have no problems with the people themselves.

I also edited my original -- I wanted to put a wider emphasis on it, though it's the same points.

--d!

[ellenfl]

45. if the 'front office' is any indication, i would find a new doc. eom

[peace13]

47. Don't waste your time or money!

IMO you will only aggravate yourself. Find someone who does not interject religion into the picture. You can debate religion here...for free! Peace, Kim

[sailor65]

49. Just a hunch here.....

"Problem being is that they aren't admissable evidence in a disability hearing."

"I have no faith in my lawyer either, who hasn't returned my calls in about five months. I'm not even sure he still is my lawyer."

"Bottom of the barrel. I don't get into therapy now my SSID case is screwed."

You might consider someone else for another reason entirely; a counselor who is a Christian, if genuinely so, is probably not going to be as likely to do for you what it appears you're looking for here.

If you have a genuine need and an honest case, how about dropping the fear card in the trash and give the counselor a shot, since he or she has to have the same credentials as any other counselor whose "Testimony is admissible."

Just a thought........

[shadowknows69]

51. I've said through this whole thread that I'm going to give her a chance.

I knew before I called she was clergy, just the whole preaching on the first call thing creeped me out.

[KittyWampus]

64. Well, one might come to the conclusion this thread wasn't about getting advice but trashing

Christians.

[shadowknows69]

67. Well, one would be wrong then wouldn't one?

But my circumstances being what they are, not Christian, I thought I'd just get a vibe from DU about it and if they thought I'd get fair treatment? Despite what looks like a slim majority saying I shouldn't go at all, I've decided to still give her a try.

[KittyWampus]

54. If they are "faith based" and getting govt. money they probably HAVE TO DISCLOSE THAT

on the first call.

[shadowknows69]

58. I'd say you're probably 100% right on that Kitty.

I think you'd agree the "We love the lord here" was probably off script though.

[Soylent Brice]

63. i wouldn't go. as an atheist, i don't see how spirituality can help solve anyone's problems.

to each their own, and no offense to those DUers who are religious, but for me personally it would be a waste of my time and theirs for even showing up.

there has to be more viable options out there for you.

edit: spelling. bleh.

[shadowknows69]

68. there has too be more viable options out there for you.

I really wish, and maybe with some looking there would be, but I have looked. I trust my friend mostly, so I'm giving it a shot.

[Soylent Brice]

72. i wish i could help. i know shit about what's in NY.

[Critters2]

65. First, a PhD is a psychologist, not a psychiatrist.

Secondly, I know several people who are ordained and have PhDs in psych. Some bring their faith into their work, some don't. One thing I'd ask is what denomination they are. If UCC, or maybe ELCA Lutheran or Presbyterian, they're probably okay. If Baptist, I'd want to know what kind of Baptist--American, Southern, or something else? American would be okay. Southern or other, not. Pretty much everybody else I'd stay away from.

I personally don't refer to any faith-based therapists, or anyone else with an agenda--feminist therapists, etc. The only agenda should be improving the life of the client. Anything else just gets in the way.

I wish you well!

[shadowknows69]

69. We cleared up my mistake about the PhD in earlier posts, she will be an MD within the year.

Don't know the denomination yet. By the way is that dog in your sig a Treeing Walker Coonhound? Looks just like mine.

[Critters2]

74. She's a beagle, but slightly oversized.

She stands 17 inches at the withers.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

76. I think you may have things mixed up. You have to have an M.D. already to even BE in psychiatry.

Seems to be some confusion in what you've posted.

You have to have graduated medical school (i.e. be a doctor already) with a M.D. (allopathic) or D.O. (osteopathic) degree to enroll in a psychiatry residency, which is 4 years of "postgraduate" residency training AFTER getting the medical degree.

So if this person is "about to be a doctor" and training with someone in your community, I'm guessing the most likely situation is that they are getting a Ph.D. in Psychology and going to be a psychologist.

[shadowknows69]

77. Actually I don't care if she's a Gypsy with a crystal ball. I just want a good therapist.

But it was my understanding from my friend that she was soon to be a full PSYCHIATRIST, whatever steps she may have had to take to get there. My friend is a mental health disability advocate so I take her word for it. As I said the error in terminology was my own ignorance.