Scott Roeder is an example of why I am against the death penalty.

[Smith_3]

Prosecutors say they will not be seeking the death penalty for him. I'm not saying that he should get the death penalty, but if he was a black guy and his target had been a fundie priest, I bet they would be seeking it. I believe there is no way on earth the death penalty can ever be "fair", in the sense that prejudices do not enter into the system. I don't think governments or human beings in general are capable of being that fair. I am therefore for abolishing the death penalty completely.

[aquart]

1. See, and I'm for hanging him high in a public square.

[Uben]

4. With barbed wire!

I have no sympathy for vicious criminals. They chose a life that has no regard for others, therefore they have no place in society.
Putting them to death is the correct solution, when there is irrefutable evidence of their guilt. They are just like a vicious dog that attacks a baby....you put them down so it will never happen again. There is no chance of escape with the death penalty. It is "final reckoning", just like they gave their victims. It's not cruel, it is just.

[aquart]

5. Nice touch.

[demnan]

2. And the irony is

that most of those who are against abortion are for the death penalty, which is institutional killing, far more than abortion is.

[dsc]

22. that is just baldly false

Catholics who are easily a third of all pro lifers are against the death penalty too. Also more than a few Protestant pro life groups (Quakers) to name one are both anti abortion and anti death penalty. I would be very surprised if people who are against abortion aren't more likely to be anti death penalty than the general population.

[EFerrari]

31. That sure isn't my experience. I wonder if there are stats anywhere. n/t

[cali]

3. agreed. that's a good example.

[zbdent]

6. bet he is one of those Old Testament "an eye for an eye" types ...

[KharmaTrain]

7. Justice Yes, Retribution No

First...let him stand trial...a fair trial. Let our justice system do its thing and present a full picture of what motivated this terrorist act and show the dark side of the wingnut world. If he's convincted, then all I care is he no longer is on the streets to kill again. If the judge deems life, fine with me. Let him rot in a cell and spend the rest of his wretched existance outside of society.

[frogcycle]

10. "Let him rot in a cell and spend the rest of his wretched existance outside of society."

How is that not retribution?

While I can respect the opinion that fairness is impossible, I don't buy the "line in the sand" that not killing someone is somehow more humane than permanent incarceration.

Unless you allow some sort of "quality of life," which I would oppose for the worst of the criminals, killing them is not that different.

[KharmaTrain]

12. It's Not My Call...It's The Judge's

If he/she and a jury decides that death is a just punishment, thus is the law of the state. I'm not going into a death penalty debate on this. My point is that as long as he is no longer allowed to be a part of society, as deemed by the jury, that should be acceptable. Many want blood...vengance. That doesn't solve a thing, it makes martyrs on the other side.

[ejpoeta]

8. i was surprised to hear they weren't seeking the death penalty. considering that this guy

must have premeditated this. but he felt justified in committing a murder because he felt this doctor murdered babies. what kind of message do we send when we murder people who murder others? I am always torn about the death penalty, because there are some pretty sick folks out there that do really bad things. And for some, like scott peterson,i think the prospect of spending the rest of their lives in prison is worse than death. But I see what you are saying... no matter what we try to make our courts, what with all the hulabaloo about using our own life experiences and such... we all have our preconceived notions and unconsciously may do things. i think the biggest fear about life in prison as a sentence is.... they may get out someday.

[elocs]

9. It's cases like this which expose the hypocrisy of those who claim to be against the death penalty.

It's easy to be against the death penalty when it does not involve one personally, or their beliefs and another matter entirely when it does. It reveals those who are kind of against the death penalty depending on whether it suits them or not.

[Bonn1997]

11. I'm against the death penalty because I'm against forced death

(except in self-defense and some wars)

[DrDan]

13. government should not be in the business of "killing"

[davidpdx]

14. Agree with you in general

but disagree with your reasoning....I think he should rot in prison for the rest of his life. One reason he shouldn't be put to death is it would make him a martyr with the wackjob prolife fundies. I have increasingly become anti-death penalty over the last few years as I'm not comfortable with the fact that some people who are truely innocent have their lives taken. I think this guy would be the exception to that rule as I think he will easily be found guilty when he does have his day in court.

[abluelady]

15. While I Understand and Agree

I would prefer our system work and Scott Roeder be put to death because he is guilty of such a heinous crime. Too many people get put to death, imho, who shouldn't and too many people, imho, walk free who shouldn't. I believe there are certain instances where the death penalty should be used, but our system must work correctly, first.

[madokie]

16. The main reason I'm against the DP

is it's too easy for the bad guy/gals to find jeebus and go on to their death looking forward to it. I say throw the sob's in the slammer so far that we have to shoot beans to them. Keep them alive as long as medicine can so they can reflect on why it is that they are where they are. but thats just me

[backscatter712]

17. Toss him in a supermax for the rest of his life.

Let him spend 23 hours a day in sensory-deprivation hell. Make sure he can never see a ray of sunlight ever again. Make sure he can never talk to a human being ever again. Make sure there is nothing in his cell, not a TV, not a single book, not nothing, to help him pass the time.

After a while, when he has nothing to do but talk to the walls of his cell, they'll start talking back...

OK, someone's going to say that supermaxes are torture. So they're torture. Scott Roeder fucking earned it. I'm all for subjecting this sack of shit to decades of mental torture and systematically destroying his psyche. Don't like it? Don't murder people in cold blood, and it won't happen to you.

[Morrisons Ghost]

18. For killing one person?

There are serial killers and child molesters and killers with multiple victims over a long period of time who don't go to a Supermax! Abortion providers are not a protected class! At the end of the day Scott Roeder is really only guilty of murder....if he is found guilty that is.

[backscatter712]

20. And engaging in terrorism.

There's a reason why hate crime statutes and terrorism statutes are on the books.

Essentially, two crimes were committed that day. One was the homicide of Dr. Tiller, which was bad enough, but the other was using this killing as an act of intimidation against people who are pro-choice. So yes, the punishment should be a lot higher than a garden-variety murder, especially since Roeder has a history of terrorist activity.

That, and I personally believe in a two-track penal system. One track is the rehabilitation track - you get a relatively short sentence, rehabilitation services, to try to reintegrate you into society. The other's for the ones that can't be fixed. Scott Roeder is a psychopath. He had his chance to rehabilitate - this isn't the first time he's done time, and he went and committed an act of murder and terrorism. He can't be fixed. So he goes in the other track - life sentence, no parole, make him fucking rot.

[Morrisons Ghost]

24. I understand your point about the terrorism statutes

But the fact remains abortion providers are not a protected class in this country,so the hate crime statutes wouldn't apply. He will more than likely be found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to death ala Paul Hill.

[backscatter712]

25. My bet is that they don't go for the death penalty.

He'll end up doing life without parole.

[Morrisons Ghost]

28. Well isn't Kansas a death penalty state?

I know Paul Hill got it in Florida!

[backscatter712]

29. They haven't executed anyone since the 60's, though the DP is still on the books.

Kansas is also pretty hard-core bible-belt, and the prosecutors might make the bet that if they get some bible-thumper on the jury, he'll hang the jury rather than vote for the death penalty, especially since Roeder's going to say "Jesus made me do it!"

So my bet is that the prosecution gets him for murder-1, probably adds some aggravating factors to the charge and additional charges, such as terrorism, and they'll bring up his priors - his conviction for making bombs & such, but they'll go for a life sentence rather than the death penalty.

[colinmom71]

30. Actually, clinic workers *are* a protected class...

The 1994 "Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act" essentially made workers at clinics that provide abortions services a legal class that has protection from harassment and intimidation (and thus physical violence) due to the sensitive nature of their job. This act, in effect, makes Dr. Tiller's murder a hate crime and thus subject to federal prosecutorial powers and a candidate for either the death penalty or sentencing within a federal "supermax" prison.

But it does seem that the prosecution is being remanded to the state level thus far. So only Kansas state laws are applicable to this case. However, should the state prosecution fail to garner a conviction, federal authorities do have cause to look into prosecuting Roeder on other related federal charges...

[WeDidIt]

19. Kansas hasn't executed anybody since 1965

And at this time, there is no evidence to suggest that Roeder's act would meet the criteria whereby the death penalty can be sought under Kansas law.

[surrealAmerican]

23. That explains it.

Has the death penalty been called for in any cases in Kansas in recent years?

[Kitsune]

26. Only a few crimes qualify one for the death penalty in Kansas

According to a caller on Stephanie Miller just now. Killing a cop or prison guard, killing multiple people, killing during the commission of a rape, killing involved with a kidnapping for ransom....and I think that's it. So, absent those conditions, the death penalty isn't even on the table.

[aikoaiko]

21. I'm for the DP and wish Roeder would get it.

The crime heinous enough to warrant it and it appears certain that he was the actor. I'm still waiting to hear more details of any mitigating circumstance, but otherwise, I'd like to see him pushing daisies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PAzqBUNlCs

[Raksha]

27. Hell, I wouldn't make a martyr out of this creep...it's probably exactly what he wants!

Life imprisonment, no possibility of parole. Throw away the key and put super glue in the lock!

I'm opposed to the death penalty on general principles anyway, for all the reasons you mentioned and others.

[Recursion]

32. Race and the death penalty

From what I've read, that's not the death penatly's "race problem". It's not that the defendant's race influences the decision, it's that the victim's race does: white victim's killers are executed at a much higher rate than nonwhite victim's killers. This leads to the bizarre result that because of pro-white prejudice, whites are executed at a higher rate than minorities (most murderers are the same race and class as their victim).