DU Help!! - "Beaten Like a Red-Headed Step-Child"

[panzerfaust]

Or: Why I am sorry almost every time that I do watch television.

You think it would be safe enough, as for decades all that I have watched is sports that I participate in (skiing when living in the northwest, tennis now that am back in Texas) and occasionally the Weather Channel. Yet, almost every time I am exposed to something which I find upsetting.

Here is a copy of the email I just sent to the Tennis Channel ([e-mail]) I sent a similar one to Lacoste

At the conclusion of the Verdasco vs Davydenko match 31 May 2009, one of the Tennis Channel commentators made the statement that {Verdasco} had been "...beaten like a red-headed stepchild."

I cannot begin to tell you of my disgust at this brutal statement, nor of the multiple levels at which I find it to be offensive.

I note that Lacoste was sponsoring that match - as their logo was on screen at the time of this - and I am sharing my disgust with them as well.

As a physician, I can assure you that there is enough child beating being done in this world without it being encouraged, or at least condoned, by sportscasters. Be the children step-children, red-heads or whatever: violence against children is not funny, nor does not need to be encouraged.

I will also be taking the trouble to find how to file a complaint with the appropriate US broadcast agencies, as well as with the French government.

Reprehensible.

Yes, I am a bleeding heart liberal who is opposed to child abuse.

[e-mail]
http://www.lacoste.com/main.html (flash driven site)

I would like to ask DUers who find this remark offensive to let the above two companies know, and I would appreciate it if someone here has a link where I can file a complaint with the FCC.

Thanks y'all

[KittyWampus]

1. Paul Begala used to use that saying when he appeared on Crossfire. Just saying...

not condoning the remark. Though I do find it implicitly anti-child abuse.

[havocmom]

4. yeah, I take it as anti-child abuse too

:shrug:

[CoffeeCat]

2. Thank you so much for...

...taking the time to speak out against this phrase.

So many children, who really had no voice when abuse was happening to them, find comfort
in knowing that an intelligent doctor speaks loudly as their advocate.

Very compassionate and just.

You are amazing!

[Captain Hilts]

3. I'm a redhead - as is Begala - and I haven't a clue what this means or where it came from. nt

[imdjh]

5. Can't say where it originated, but it's been around in various forms forever.

Dolly Parton says it in Nine To Five - "No wonder they treat me like a red headed step child at a family reunion."

It's obviously a variation on "I felt like a bastard at a family reunion."

[Captain Hilts]

6. I thought she said 'bastard at a family reunion.' I thought that's what she said. nt

[imdjh]

7. I guess they are interchangeable.

Since I remembered it with the red headed version. Anyway, it's one of those southernisms which has something of a life of its own.

[KittyWampus]

9. maybe it is a southern thing. IIRC, Begala was from TX? It also has a whiff of paternalism

when you consider the whole "bastard" angle.

[Captain Hilts]

20. True, it might be various versions of a southernism. nt

[anigbrowl]

43. Not particularly. Here is why red hair is an 'issue'

Red hair is a recessive genetic trait, resulting from 2 particular genetic variations being present. That means that if only one of your parents carries such a variation, you will not have red hair (well, it's a bit more complex than that, but if you want an essay, see here: http://www.derm.med.ed.ac.uk/06_teaching/redhairgen.htm).

However, you can be a carrier of one of these genes without necessarily having red hair. And if you have a child with someone else who carries one of the other genes (and doesn't have red hair), your offspring may be born with red hair even though neither of you (parents) have it. Before genetics were properly understood, this was often taken to mean the wife had been playing around on the side, because most people could not imagine how two people with (some other color) hair could produce a red-haired child. Hence the association with bastardy and other socially undesirable conditions.

Furthermore, there are some communities in which red hair is very common, but which tend to be genetically isolated from the rest of the population. Ireland's travelers (aka tinkers, a sort of Celtic gypsy equivalent) are one example.

Myself, I think the OP is overblown and silly. I am also a redhead, neither of whose parents have red hair, and I have ample first-hand experience of the social negatives.

[rocktivity]

11. DING DING DING! Imdjh, you're our grand prize winner!

It's obviously a variation on "I felt like a bastard at a family reunion."

Right--the very fact that the child is redheaded is "proof positive" that he's a bastard. But that's no reason to beat the child--being a redheaded stepchild isn't exactly the child's idea, is it?

:mad:
rocktivity

[Quantess]

14. No, redheads have been subjected to discrimination in parts of the world just for having red hair.

You could be right, it may be hinting at an illegitimate child, but the historical hatred of red hair in parts of Europe could be enough.

To this day, "gingers" in England report teasing, name-calling, harrassment, and in one case I read about, vandalism. A red headed family's home had been spraypainted with hostile statements about their red hair.

[Captain Hilts]

22. Actually Russians hate redheads. That was part of the rap against Anatoli Chubais. nt

[pink-o]

40. Because red hair usually means you're Celtic or Jewish.

I had 2 red-headed grannies--one of each ethnicity. The Irish one had the most gorgeous, thick auburn hair, and the Ashkenazi one was more strawberry blonde. In Jewish lore, it was considered bad luck for the family to have red hair--but I think the meaning is that the red-head is either not the child of the husband, who's being cuckolded, or is just a general outsider. Both ideas are stupid anyway.

But I doubt the phrase was put forth in the 21st century with anyone condoning a child's beating--red, blonde or brunette. It's just a stupid anachronism that needs to go away, but was said with no ill intent.

Hey, as a vegetarian I hate "Kill two birds with one stone", or "there's more than one way to skin a cat". But I understand it's not literal!

[Quantess]

82. I doubt the phrase was put forth in the 21st century with anyone condoning a child's beating

I agree. I don't think there was ever any culturally or societally based encouragement to mistreat a child just for having red hair.

But then again, if it is considered "bad luck" for the family to have red hair, then there apparently is some stigma attached to being a redhead. Just look at the stupid "redheaded woman" quips of the early part of the 20th century. And notice, nothing is ever said of redheaded men.

An elderly woman told me that as a child in school, she "hated" redheads, and was mean to redheaded classmates, until she got over it.

[canetoad]

41. Like the talented and funny

Catherine Tate, and her 'Gingers' skits.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUhLIjlTNSk

[Quantess]

81. Thanks for the video. The Brits get it. It's a stereotype. "Ginger" or blonde, it's a stereotype,

Baseless and stupid.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. What about "beaten like a rented mule"? n/t

[Gidney N Cloyd]

19. That's the correct saying. The tennis moran was mixing metaphors.

I've never heard anyone ever before say "beaten like a red-headed step child."

[XOKCowboy]

26. I've heard it all of my life....

In the advanced form it's "like a red-headed, left-handed stepchild".

Funny it never made me want to attack red-headed people, left handed people or even stepchildren.....

[cherokeeprogressive]

36. Actually, I have heard the other, but I always took both to mean gettin' a bad beatin'.

Stepchildren tend to be treated somewhat badly, due to jealousy I think, and mules just get beaten, ESPECIALLY if they don't belong to the person doling out the abuse.

The part I hadn't heard was that the red hair implied marital infidelity.

[aquart]

8. Google has a lot of different origins.

But red hair was never a good thing in most places in Europe. A redheaded Jewish girl, and my family had lots of them, had trouble finding a husband. Partly because she might be the child of rape and not Jewish all the way through, and partly because of the legendary temper.

Red hair was associated with evil all the way back to Set, an Egyptian god. (Where did the Egyptians get a look at red hair? Well, seems there were Celtic -- or whatever they were calling themselves then -- mercenaries in ancient Egypt. Had their own city and everything. They also pissed off Alexander the Great back in Macedon before he became Great.)

[KittyWampus]

10. Interesting info.

[imdjh]

21. The mother of Scotland was Egyptian and her son was Hiber

Various ancient Egyptians are known to have had red, light brown, and even blond hair.

[SoCalDem]

13. It's an insinuation that Mom had an "affair-child"

ie.."no one in THIS family has/had red heair"..

True red-heads are rare, and usually "run in families"..

It's an old-timey "joke" that has outlived its welcome..

[imdjh]

24. Hear! Hear!

I'm no slave to political correctness, but for all my foul mouthed fury in real life, eliminating the use of "bastard" is not only one of my successes but also a preaching point. It goes without saying that I don't use "illegitimate" either, though I have no idea why a person would have occasion to use that word.

Calling a man a bastard as an equivalent to calling a woman a bitch has never made sense anyway.

[panzerfaust]

12. FCC Link (Might be because had to take care of child beaten to death by parents the other night.)

But the remark - one that I have never heard before - strikes me as brutal and as one condoning child beating.

Not only does it imply that it is OK to beat step-children, but especially it is OK if they are red-heads.

Here is the link to directly to the appropriate FCC form http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm?sid=d1e640&id=d1e669

[billyoc]

16. 1-800-DR-WHINE

We get it, your boy lost the tennis game.




20 years in school and you never heard that expression?

[panzerfaust]

45. Acceptable phrases reflect acceptable behavior.

"I smell/hear a ? in the woodpile" is now only heard in the South, and not that often here.

I simply do not think that it is at all reasonable to condone violence against children; though daily I see evidence that this belief is not widely shared as one might have thought.

Oh, and to stick with "it is just a normal phrase", at the conclusion of the match both players were "sweating like ?" - suppose the commentator had made that comment: would you be defending it as well? And this latter expression is STILL widely used here in Texas.

As far as never having heard the "expression" under discussion, no today was a first: Guess that I simply hung out with the wrong crowd in school (24 years if one counts internship and residency).

[billyoc]

54. I'm not defending the commentator, I'm attacking YOU and your poutrage.

Until today, I never knew there was such a thing as a tennis commentator.

[Quantess]

93. I personally have never heard that one.

"your boy lost the tennis game"

Maybe I'm too young for that saying. I'm only 38 years old.

[billyoc]

95. You like that one? I just made it up.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. You've NEVER heard that expression?

Holy christ, that's been around for years along with "beaten like a goverment mule".

Uh oh.....I suppose I should expect a letter now......?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

18. Do you remember the Farkel's on Laugh In?

The Farkel Family was a recurring skit on the television variety show Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In. The Farkel parents, Frank Farkel (played by Dan Rowan) and Fanny Farkel (played by Jo Anne Worley, later by Barbara Sharma and finally by Patti Deutsch), both had dark-colored hair and good eyesight. Curiously, all the children had red hair and wore glasses, just like their "good friend and trusted neighbor" Ferd Berfel, played by Dick Martin.
The youngest was Sparkle Farkel, played by Goldie Hawn. They also had the twins, Simon and Gar Farkel (a pun on Simon and Garfunkel). Despite being identical twins, they were played by actresses of different races, Pamela Rodgers and Teresa Graves. There also were skits where the identical twins, Sparkle and Charcoal Farkel were played by Goldie Hawn and Teresa Graves.
Much of the action in the Farkel sketches consisted of introducing every member of the large family by name. Otherwise the dialogue would lead to tongue-twisters ("That's a fine-looking Farkel flinger you found there, Frank"). One daughter, Flicker Farkel (played by Ruth Buzzi), always had a single word of dialogue: "Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Farkel_Family
--------------------------------------------------

It been an obvious innuendo --- A joke... remember them?

How did that red headed kid suddenly appear in a family with no red headed people?

I don't think of it as advocating child abuse at all.

It is just a saying -- If you said beat him like a blonde headed stepchild it would not have the innuendo factor - lots of blonde kids - Red headed ones? Not so many... Red hair is actually becoming more rare and if evolution has its way, will be gone in a couple hundred years.

I do understand that beating a kid is not at all funny - The ironic thing is finding a red headed kid in a family without any red heads....

[panzerfaust]

46. No. As I said, I do not generally watch TV, and have not for decades

... it rots the brain.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

85. No wonder you have

zero sense of humor....

I love the people here who profess that watching television "rots the brain"

How did the thread star again?

Wasn't it something to do with watching the TV?

Pffft

[Fumesucker]

99. You have to watch TV to have a sense of humor?

And for the record, Frank Zappa, who most certainly had a sense of humor, wrote "I Am the Slime" about television..

I am gross and perverted
Im obsessed n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little has changed
I am the tool of the government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you cant look away
I make you think Im delicious
With the stuff that I say
I am the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I am the slime oozin out
From your tv set

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we dont need you
Dont got for help...no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

Thats right, folks..
Dont touch that dial

Well, I am the slime from your video
Oozin along on your livinroom floor

I am the slime from your video
Cant stop the slime, people, lookit me go

[Fumesucker]

100. Self delete, dupe, browser hiccup..

[panzerfaust]

47. Dup Post somehow

[JVS]

23. Where I'm from it's "beaten like a rented mule"

With the logic being that the renter has little interest in the long term health of the animal

[MADem]

28. Quick--call the ASPCA!! How DARE anyone advocate beating mules!!!

Let me drag this out, for the irony-impaired...

:sarcasm:

[AngryAmish]

25. You are against child abuse. It takes a lot of guts to be against child abuse.

Very brave.

[woo me with science]

30. Touche.

Excellent reply. Of course, everyone who doesn't mind the phrase is in favor of child abuse!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

32. Especially against a fictional child (n/m)

[MADem]

66. It's all a plot against Ann of Green Gables, I tell ya!

Or Pippi Longstocking!!

Don't ever use the phrase "Throw the baby out with the bathwater" either....because that's in the same league!

:rofl:

[panzerfaust]

49. I see beaten and abused children nearly every day

... the one last week who died with a caved in skull (courtesy of her step-father) is especially on my mind.

So which takes more courage: To beat a child to death, or to show that such is not acceptable.

[woo me with science]

80. Yeah, this is effective.

I bet you saved 20 imaginary red-headed children with this post alone! :yourock:

[MADem]

27. I think you are being hypersensitive, myself. You have also been raised in a vacuum.

The phrase is a colloqualism that has come down through the years.

Aquart's bit of research in this thread alludes to the origin of the phrase, and others have chimed in with additional info, so I won't repeat all that.

The idea behind the phrase is to 'knock down the one that does not fit in with the rest of the group.'

It does not mean, literally, that people should seek out red-headed step-children and beat them.

This place cracks me up sometimes.

[Catch22Dem]

34. Me too..

These are the threads that usually make me close the browser and try again another day. LOL.

[panzerfaust]

55. At one point I was the only white, gentile kid in my inner city school

Found my first dead body behind the SOHIO station at about age 6 on my way home from school (bum who had been killed and robbed), later many is the time when we had no heat in midwest winters, my step-father used to beat 'the children' regularly, as well as beat my mother. One time he threw her down the stairs to the basement causing her to miscarry in huge volumes of blood ... by junior high I carried a switch-blade ... I have supported myself since age 15 ... at age 19 I was a medic in Viet Nam at a time when the causality rate for medics was 50% - and you, dear commenter, have the gall to talk about my 'sheltered life'!!

You, Madam or Sir, are an idiot, willing to make assumptions about situations of which you can have no possible knowledge simply because it fits your prejudices.

I am opposed to child abuse, and disgusted by those who make light of it: You would be one of these.

[MADem]

62. No, that's not it at all. I am saying that anyone who has not heard that colloqualism

has lived in a vacuum. And anyone who thinks it means "Let's beat up red-headed stepchildren" is DISTRESSINGLY "literal" and probably needs to take a few literature courses. Start with the basics. The VERY basics. You have a long road ahead.

I am not moved by your personal anecdotes. Lots of people have tough lives. I will not allow an absurd level of "PC"--a stupid level, frankly--to butcher our language into Mao-like vapidity and lockstep rigidity. If you don't like that, well, IGNORE is your friend, capisce? So's "hide thread" if your eyes are too sensitive to live in the real world.

You might try doing a little reading, pal--start with the DU rules and pay attention to the piece about personal insults. Calling people idiots because they don't share your naive and wrongheaded views isn't within those guidelines.

You have a nice day. Get some help for the problems that plainly ail you. Grow up, too, while you're at it. And stop calling people you don't agree with names--that reflects on you--POORLY.

[DatManFromNawlins]

92. And you're a dumbass for bitching about a common colloquialism

[woo me with science]

29. You will not find one instance of this expression's being used publicly

where the speaker is actually condoning child abuse. I'll be shocked if you can show me one.

But go ahead....let's strip the language of every colorful or unusual phrase that has any connection to an injustice or sensitive topic.

Sheesh.

[panzerfaust]

61. Sweating like a >>>

Colorful and time-honored phrase here in the south.

Personally, was not sad to see that one go in the rest of the country - were you?

[woo me with science]

76. Wow.

The surreal meter on DU just hit a new level.

What an AMAZING thread.

:rofl:

[anonymous171]

31. There are a lot of things to be angry about right now.

This is not one of them.

[woo me with science]

33. I thought it was a joke at first.

Then I remembered I am on DU.

[MADem]

63. Nope. It ain't. That's the pathetic bit!

I'm being called an idiot and a facilitator of child abuse because I don't concur with the individual's absurd thesis.

I initially thought it was a freeper winding us up, frankly. These days, you never know.

[woo me with science]

77. Now that I know you are an abuser,

I will teach my imaginary stepchildren to shun you.

[MADem]

97. If they're redheaded imaginary stepchildren, why, they'd better run!!!

:rofl: GRRRRR! :rofl:

[FLAprogressive]

35. I AM OUTRAGED.

This is the type of stuff that gives liberals a bad name.

[XOKCowboy]

84. This thread? You got that right.

The economy is tanking, hundreds of thousands are without health care, a doctor was assassinated by the religious right and this OP is upset about a colloquial phrase.

Great priorities.

[bertman]

37. My preference is "whipped him like a four-year old in a K-Mart". Thank you, Sinbad.

The first time I heard all of those three (redhead, mule, four-year old) I got a good laugh from the imagery it conjured.

We bleeding heart liberals do tend to get a bit overwrought at times. Like now.

[WillowTree]

38. Let's just ban all language of any sort and be done with it.

Although I'm sure someone will find a way to be offended by that, as well.

Me? I prefer to save my outrage for something that actually means something.

[Obamanaut]

39. Can I still say things such as "Nervous as a long tailed cat in a room

full of rockers" and/or "Jumping like a cat on a hot tin roof" - since both of these suggest cruelty to cats.

Lighten up, Francis.

[dem629]

53. LMAO

[MADem]

64. I'm calling the SPCA now! AND reporting you to..... er... the editor of CATFANCY!! nt

[XOKCowboy]

88. ROFL!

My dad used the expression.... "He's as rich as a foot up a bull's ass". I never figured out what that meant but I'm now convinced that it was demeaning to all male cows.

[proteus_lives]

42. Calm down.

I don't saying this means you're pro-child abuse. Hell, I've said before. Besides I hate this PC hand-wringing. There's a difference between this and real offensive language.

I actually been hearing this varation: "We beat'em like mixed-race step-children." That's a little more offensive.

[BlooInBloo]

44. Susan Boyle.

[MadHound]

48. Oh good grief, stop being so hyper sensitive.

It is a common phrase, one used out here in the Midwest quite frequently. It doesn't condone child abuse, it's an old, old saying, that's all.

And frankly, the underlings at both Lacoste and the Tennis channel who get your email are going to roll on the floor, print it out, pin it on the wall of their cubical and mercilessly mock you for the next year or so until the next hypersensitive whiner writes in.

[panzerfaust]

58. Have you ever taken care of a dying beaten child?

Check back and share your opinion when you have.

Thanks.

[MadHound]

67. As a one time first responder, yes I have

I was also a beaten, abused child myself. So take you sanctimonious spiel and shove it, you get no points for trying to play the high and mighty one here.

You're overreacting, the vast majority of people here think your overreacting, so give it up and find something new to be outraged about. Geez, if you put half the amount of effort into actually helping abused children that you do into being outraged about a very old, very colloquial, very common saying, we wouldn't have a child abuse problem.

[Chulanowa]

90. Bitching is easier, though

That's the foundation of internet message boards, after all. In fact I'm pretty sure it's one of the laws of the internet

[woo me with science]

68. DU is like Wonderland sometimes,

with misplaced outrage and hysterical non sequiturs swooping in from all directions.

This thread is just stunning. It may end up being one of the classics!


"Off with her head!"
.
.
.
.

[d_b]

50. lolz

sure.

[Bonobo]

51. Holy Shit! Is this satire?

Crap likes this makes me embarrassed to be a liberal.

[panzerfaust]

59. Crap like this makes me embarrassed to be a human being.

[woo me with science]

78. No, you are just embarrassed. nt

[dem629]

52. LOL. You are just looking for something to complain about. Come on.

[panzerfaust]

56. No, I guess that I am just warped by all of the abused children that I see.

Sorry that I cannot appreciate the humor in it.

[MADem]

65. Well, stop abusing them then. And get a life and find real problems to gripe about.

Your description of yourself as warped does seem to be apt. And you're not funny--you're absurd.

[dem629]

75. Get over yourself.

[BlooInBloo]

57. Prepared for the idiotic "oh, so you must be pro-child abuse" response.

[panzerfaust]

60. Genug! Über und heraus.

But I say again:

1) There is nothing humorous in beaten children: Be they step-children OR red-heads OR even both.

2) Acceptable phrases reflect acceptable behavior.

Gute Nacht.

[woo me with science]

69. Good night and sleep tight.

I believe you have been beaten soundly here...just like a red-headed stepchild!

:rofl:

[MilesColtrane]

70. I don't have time to write the tennis channel.

I'm too busy protesting Amazon.com.

Did you know they make money off of books depicting child abuse?

Written by some scumbags named Dickens and Grimm, I believe.

[BlooInBloo]

71. Susan Boyle.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

72. Finally, I've found an advocate

They been beating me for years!

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mike 03]

74. Ron Bennington uses that phrase on his comedy program. I don't even get

it, or understand why it is funny, other than by inference. I agree without hesitation that there is nothing funny about child abuse. Not in the least.

[roody]

79. Thanks for doing this! I don't watch tv, so I don't feel

qualified to protest.

[XOKCowboy]

83. Do you REALLY believe that using that expression leads to abuse of red headed children?

Or children in general? I can't believe I even read this thread.

[Hanse]

86. I feel exactly the same way about the desecration of deceased horses.

Only a monster would ever use that highly offensive and cruel metaphor.

[DRoseDARs]

87. As a redheaded stepchild who has been "beaten" in the past, I ask you to please stop and get a grip.

I'm sure you likewise get your bloomers in a bloody, soiled bunch every time you watch Family Guy, South Park, or any other instance of tongue-in-cheek dark humor. Donate to a child welfare service and leave the idioms alone.

[Skittles]

89. off to the Greatest Page with ye

I have always detested that expression

[XOKCowboy]

91. You rec'd this thread?

Hopefully only for the comedic value.

[REP]

94. Sorry, can't offer the help you need

This well-known figure of speech is only offensive to ... well, let's just say those who don't get out much.

[backscatter712]

96. I prefer the phrase "beaten like a rented mule!"

now the animal-rights activists are going to flame me...

[Bucky]

98. Would "Beaten like a naked pyramid" be less offensive?

[backscatter712]

102. Hey, these expressions aren't any fun if they're inoffensive...

[DarbyUSMC]

101. What about "you look like you've been ridden hard and put away wet." Holy, Toledo. I didn't know

there was a tennis channel.

My mother used to use part of that expression when she missed out on some family news "What am I? The red-headed step child?" There are an awful lot of colloquialisms . Nothing wrong with not watching TV or (you didn't say this, just guessing) going to movies but things from TV and movies and old time sayings do become part of the language.

I say this quite often:

"Bad luck, is that all I'm ever going to have? I should have taken a rock and killed myself years ago."

No, don't call Suicide Prevention. And yes, I've known people who have committed suicide or tried to commit suicide.

"Lighten up Francis"

[Bucky]

103. That expression is offensively anti-Equine-American

Horses are people too! :eyes: