Evangelicals hope to 'reach' Buddhists

[Squatch]

If you're a Tibetan Buddhist or you're leaning that way, you may not know it, but you need Jesus.

That's the thinking behind a series of Christian evangelical workshops -- including one later this month in Wheaton -- that will coincide with the Dalai Lama's trip to Chicago and other American cities this spring.

The Dalai Lama, seen in March, is set to visit Chicago in May. A Philadelphia-based Christian missionary group is holding a series of workshops on how to share the gospel with Tibetan Buddhists.

Interserve USA is putting on the workshops to teach Christians how to talk to Buddhists and, perhaps, to win converts.
"We welcome the Dalai Lama here, but we also want to have a chance to reach Tibetan Buddhists with the gospel," said Doug Van Bronkhorst, executive director of Interserve, an international missionary group based just outside of Philadelphia.

Link

[johnaries]

1. HA! Good luck!

edit to add: Buddhists believe that Earth is Hell. Being preached to by Evangelicals will just prove it to them.

[Jack Rabbit]

4. The typical Buddhist reaction would be

. . . to accept the Gospel, share the Dharma with the Evangelicals and pray that God becomes enlightened.

[DixieBlue]

19. Ha!

That's great!

[Jeroen]

22. ;-) !

[shadowknows69]

26. and i for one hope God does someday

He has to be screwed up to spawn so many idiot followers. Good on ya JackRabbit.

[windy252]

54. you know, that really would explain a lot n/t

[Blue_Tires]

53. could not have said it better....

[On the Road]

2. Christianity is Making Enormous Inroads in China

I don't know if it's due to missionaries or not.

[jobycom]

14. Christianity is a cool religion where it is not popular.

From its very inception until now, it grows in regions where it is not already popular because of the rebellious core of its philosophy. Jesus was a revolutionary in many ways, preaching love, faith, peace, and all that groovy stuff, but also preaching that leaders should only be obeyed if they were good people, and that a person's religious beliefs should take precedence over nonsense authoritarian rules and leaders. It's a non-violent form of rebellion that preaches defiance of bad leaders without calling for violence, and its rewards, if you can believe them, are guaranteed even if you have to suffer the same oppression throughout life.

Maybe it's popular in China because it echoes Buddhism, Taoism, and even Confuscious, in ways, without having connections to the governments in power.

Just the thoughts of an atheist who likes commenting on religion, for some weird reason. Probably wrong, as always. But I'm bored at work, so thanks for helping me pass my day. :)

[RedCappedBandit]

16. You're not wrong

Christianity has always been enticing for a few reasons.. Also because it promises a "heaven" where other religions may not.

[jobycom]

23. Yeah, that's always a good selling point, and it really costs nothing.

You can believe it, and if you are wrong, you'll never care.

[paulk]

35. one thing I've noticed, and I realize it's entirely anecdotal

is that a lot of the Asian entrepreneurs that I know here in the US have converted from Buddhism to Christianity. Also more than the average, it seemed to me, of the people I do business with in SE Asia are converts... usually to some kind of evangelical sect.

I've always wondered if it's just an anomaly, or if evangelical Christianity, especially, somehow appeals to people involved in business because it's not as restrictive as Buddhism when it comes to ... treating people fairly? I mean, I haven't really found the same thing in countries with Hindu cultures -

Just a thought, and something I've been wondering about for years...

[Leopolds Ghost]

37. A lot of evangelical churches have undergone some sort of viral mutation

In which parishioners and pastors equate capitalism, democracy and
christianity in some sort of uniform, watered-down Americo-cultural gruel.
Their beliefs are reinforced by the notion that each and every church must
win converts -- from other Baptist churches, if necessary. A business
mentality in which souls = $$ and pastors explicitly view the size of
their personal bank account with their success spreading the Word and thus
likelihood to ascend into Heaven.

[jobycom]

38. I don't think that's it. In theory, Christianity claims all people are equal

and in fact businesspeople during the Middle Ages were considered pretty unlikely to get to heaven without massive penance near the ends of their lives.

There's a theory in marketing (and since I'm not a marketer I'll probably botch it) which basically says that any new idea will be accepted in a bell curve. Acceptance will start out slow, build to a peak, then taper off as everyone who will accept the product accepts it. The first people it accept a new idea are often the brightest, fairly young, educated, upwardly mobile (or trying to be), and part of a culture that is exposed to a variety of ideas, so that they see more than one way to do things. Historians (and that's where I ran across the theory) have applied this concept to the study of societies during periods of mass conversion (for instance, the spread of Christianity or Islam) in cultures where enough records were kept to measure this somewhat reliably. And conversions often follow this basic pattern, with the exception of earliest Christianity and Islam, where the very earliest converts were often the lowest folk on the totem pole--usually people who had no family and had washed out of everything else. At that level, religions become a social support group--sort of a surrogate tribal or family structure.

Once a religion has become established, though, when it is then exported to another culture, the people quickest to convert are the same types who are quickest to embrace any new technology. Islam saw this with their conquests (which were military, not religious--there were no forced or coerced conversions when they conquered), Christianity saw it with their conquests (where there were sometimes, but not usually, forced conversions), and then with their later missionary work.

So what I'm saying is that business folk, especially in cultures just getting their economy thriving, like southeast Asia, China, etc, would fit the bill for the first converts on that bell curve. Why this is more with Buddhists (I'm assuming you aren't including Zen Buddhists in Japan, that's a different thing) and not Hindu, I don't know. Maybe evangelicals haven't focused on Hinduism. Or maybe it's just anecdotal selectivism.

[paulk]

45. that's an interesting theory, and I think there's some truth in it

I also think the other posters who responded to me got a part of it right also. There does seem to be a basic disconnect between (western) cut throat capitalism and Buddhism - both Tibetan and Theravada (which is the version seen more in SE Asia and China).

I think you don't see the same effect as much in Hindu cultures because the "rules" are different... when it comes to making money (?) It's hard to explain what I mean, I don't really know enough about the religions or the cultures - but I do know there is a definite difference in dealing with Tibetan Buddhists in Nepal and dealing with Hindu Nepalis or Indian shopkeepers in Nepal. The Buddhists are just more honest. That goes for Thailand also - I always look around the shop (or for a cross around the neck) to find out what religion is practiced. I'm not sure that it's always a fair characterization, but I tend to trust the Buddhist shopkeepers more.

I have known some Thai's who seemed to convert to Christianity because it "helped" their upward mobility. Interestingly enough, the one's I'm thinking of were also Thai's of Chinese descent (a large and often separate subgroup of the Thai population). I don't know what that has to do with anything - except that that subgroup is heavily involved in owning businesses...

[Maraya1969]

39. From being very baby Buddhist standpoint I can tell you that from my prospective

Buddhism and Capitalism are harder to coincide than Christianity and capitalism. One of Buddhism's basic philosophy is that we are all one. "We all win or we all lose" type thing.

So the competitive nature of a Buddhist enterprise would be a bit hindered I think. But that does not mean it would not be a success. I have been to Buddhist stores in NY and there is a demand for Buddist things but as far as a Buddhist fast food service I don't think that would fly. Also Buddhists don't eat meat so you kind of stuck with french fries.


Here is a few quotes from a Buddhist site. #2 #4 #5 #7 #8 all seem to be in contradiction of our capitalistic behavior in this country.

The Ten Good Deeds 10 Good Deeds

1. Do not kill
2. Do not steal
3. Do not indulge in sexual misconduct
4. No lying
5. No double-tongued speech
6. No abusive speech
7. No irresponsible speech
8. No greed
9. No hatred
10. No delusion

Three Poisons / Three Evil Roots 3 Poisons

In Flower Adornment Sutra, it says that

For all bad Karma created in the past,
Based upon beginningless greed, hatred and delusion,
And born of body, mouth and mind,
I now repent and reform.

It is the well known Repentance Verse in Buddhism. In Buddhism, the distinction between what is good and what is bad is simple. It hinges on the intention or motivation from which an action originates. The deed which is associated with greed/attachment, hatred/ill will, delusion/stupidity is evil.

Greed, hatred and delusion are called the Three Poisons or Three Evil Roots, which are the primary source of all evil deed. It is the Three Poisons that create all bad Karma, resulting all kinds of suffering in accordance with the Principle of Cause and Effect. The Three Poisons are also obstacles to the attainment of good Karma. Thus we have to abandon them by all means.


Four conditions of musavada (Telling lies)

1.The thing said must be untrue.
2. There must be an intention to deceive.
3.There must be an effort made as a result of the said intention.
4. The other must know the meaning of what is said.

If these conditions are fulfilled, the fourth precept is violated.

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/Precepts.htm

[Maraya1969]

41. Buddhist economics.....

1

The Economic Hidden Agenda behind every war


"When one nation's army turns its guns on another, far from starting a war, they are the products of a war started long ago through economic exploitation."

2

The Distinguishing features of Buddhist Economics

"Don't eat just because you feel like it
-- eat when you feel hungry . . ."






6

Ideals and Goals in Buddhist Microeconomics

"Anyone with faith, leading to truthfulness, training without end, patience and self-sacrifice, will gain supreme wealth for themselves because they avoid sorrow in lives to come"


Principles of Buddhist Macroeconomics



"As for those at the top -- even if they have a hundred million or a thousand billion, they are still in poverty -- but their poverty differs from that of the grassroots poor because instead of being poor from a lack of resources, they are poor because they never know enough."


Conclusion

Riches ruin only the foolish,
not those in quest of the Beyond.
By craving for riches the witless man,
ruins himself as well as other

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma5/buddhisteco.html#8

[yardwork]

46. Actually, Jesus's words were very similar to those Buddhist tenets

Jesus's teachings are very much at odds with capitalism. Unfortunately, a lot of so-called Christians don't pay any attention to Jesus's words.

[On the Road]

43. The Maoist Repression of Religion Has Receded

leaving most of the country atheistic. This is just fine with much of the population (including my girlfriend), but
a lot of Chinese people are looking beyond the government-instilled atheism. Some people still have traditional beliefs (a guy who did some renovation for me had a shrine to a red deity on his mantle.) But it's an ideal environment for religious beliefs to take hold, which is why Falun Gong has had such success.

I think I know quite a few Chinese Christians, although they may not identify themselves that way. Christianity is viewed differently by many people over there. The emphasis on love and community in religion is very different from traditional Chinese society.

Now Tibet is traditionally a little different from the rest of the country. But religion was still suppressed there and officially it's a secular state.

[John Q. Citizen]

15. How many Buddhists are there in China?

[jobycom]

34. Complicated question

I know, I've been Googling for the answer. Best I can determine is that China is officially atheist, but allows religions. Buddhism is the most popular religion, after non-religiousness. One entry I found said 59% are non-religious, 40.6% are Buddhist. Another entry I found said 6% are Buddhist.

From my own limited knowledge, there are two types of Buddhism (not counting Zen). One form believes that Buddha is a god, the other believes he was just a great teacher. So one could be Buddhist and non-religious, depending on how you define "religion." Add to that that many people practice aspects of Buddhism, Taoism, and even Confucius-ism, and it's hard to really say.

That's the best I could come up with. And I think Tibetan Buddhism is another animal altogether, anyway. I liked your question. It let me play Google tag instead of work for quite some time. Thanks. :)

[jobycom]

3. Good for the Evangelicals.

Maybe some of them will learn something from the Buddhists.

[DixieBlue]

21. No, that requires listening. And having an open mind.

[jobycom]

24. Ah, but that's one of the joys of sales

You can't persuade someone if you don't at least make an attempt to relate to them. One of my bosses used to do a lot of missionary work in Africa. It changed him far more than he changed anyone else.

[northernsoul]

25. I don't think they intend to learn anything

They've already got all the answers, remember?

[jobycom]

33. Ah well, I can hope.

:)

[Jacobin]

5. I think they need to go convert some headhunting cannibals

:evilgrin:


"Focus on your own damn Family"

[Tyler Durden]

12. Ever hear the Mark Twain quote?

He was speaking as one of the Evangelized Cannibals:

"We understand Christianity; we have eaten the Missionaries."

[deutsey]

6. I think their dogma is about to get run over by the Buddhists' karma

:evilgrin:

[krispos42]

7. Good luck with that

This is actually a very good thing, I think. Sending our most devout and fanatical fundamentalist Christians thousands of miles away to take on a millenia-old religion instead of staying here and preying on the poor and the weak? Bring it on!

[BOSSHOG]

8. And just how will they teach the bible?

Its pretty good to abide by this stuff, but this book over here just forget because its just too uncomfortable and if you need to justify your hate for somebody, we've highlighted those passages.

[saltpoint]

9. I hope the Buddhists they approach tell the proselytizers to bugger off.

Too many of these proselytizing evangelicals need to knock off the door-knocking and get their heads out of their buttholes.

[noonwitch]

30. That would be so "un-buddhist" to do that, though.

A true buddhist will likely smile and thank the people proselytizing them for their time and concern. That's how I deal with street corner evangelists, these days.

[saltpoint]

31. noonwitch, you are absolutely right. I was grafting my frustration at

evangelical proselytizers onto the scene rather than accurately characterizing Buddhists' likely response to same.

[whistle]

10. Buddists have a way to deal with that...

When you expect something, when you aim at something, right there you dilute your energy; you split your energy, you split your attention and it becomes more than the place of yin and yang. You do not only divide, but you create the problem..
- Taizan Maezumi

[juno jones]

11. Heh, heh...

Most american buddhists are converts from christianity and that smug jugemental crap is exactly why they left the christian religion in the first place. Speaking from experience, the modesty, politeness and peacefulness of most buddhist monks (especially the Tibetan branch)is a far more effective recruiting tool than the rabid hate-filled damn-them-to-hell aprroach of most evangelists. In fact, the Dalai Lama is probably closer to living the 'jesus' ideal than most christians. Buddhism is one of the fastest growing religions in the US (along with paganism)and I suspect that soon we'll see more blatant attacks as the christers start running scared...

[Sequoia]

13. I second that emotion.

Or however that song goes.

[VotingVet]

18. Hello Dalai, Good B ye Jesus

The encounter could be interesting and uplifting for both sides. If the missionaries go at it with open minds and hearts, they'll learn a lot. On the other hand, if they're just dickheads who think they're taking the One Truth to some hicks from the mountains, they are in for a very, very big surprise. Buddhism embraces all religions, minus the bullsh*t. And it's much more sophisticated than might be thought.

Here's my prediction: Christians convert zero Buddhists; Buddhists convert zero Christians. However, the final score will be: Christians who start thinking that maybe there is more than "One Way': some. Buddhists who start thinking that maybe there is only "One Way": none.

Total shutout, thank you Avalokiteshvara!

[dweller]

17. and if the evangils meet the Buddha on the road

will they kill him?

more likely they'll try to save him.

dp

[VotingVet]

20. And Buddha would just urge them

to save themselves by seeking enlightenment. ;-)

[shadowknows69]

27. Good

Buddhists need a good laugh every now and then too.

[matt007]

28. KOREA!!!!!!!!

red crosses on any building that has a church. 25% of the population here is christian(mostly protestant/evangelical)

It's alive and well here. Kind of sickening.

My cousin is a missionary and she is coming here for about a week. I dont know why, they've already done the damage

[hogwyld]

48. China Too

Just came back from China on Sunday, and the number of churches popping up is unsettling.

[Old and In the Way]

29. It is the presumptive arrogance of evangelical christianity that bugs me.

It's not that I care that they truly believe in their religious views. It's that they need to convince everyone else that their belief is superior to anyone else's. If I were God, it'd be pretty damn boring if everyone thought the same things. IMHO, it's the diversity of ideas and world views that God would desire. I suspect God appreciates improvisational jazz a helluva lot more than a music piece consisting of playing the same note over and over and over again.....

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Me too. I keep trying to reach my husband on that point but, he is just too indoctrinated right now.

But I think he is slowly opening up to the notion that you can find God in a myriad different ways and places.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. I tease my wife about her being a "Zen Christian".

She went all the way through Catholic Schools. Seriously, considered becoming a nun. Finally, abandoned mother church about 10 years ago. She's now a United Methodist - but even that's wearing a bit thin.

I just recorded (yesterday) some Alan Watts lectures for her. She'd heard them before but really didn't "get" them. Now she does.

She's at the "Good-grief, I believed all that crap!" stage now.

[TahitiNut]

44. Each path is unique, grasshopper.

I say that only as a sometimes customer of the Hot Dog Vendor. :silly:

[bobbolink]

49. "The Catholic Church is a whore, but she's my mother" Dorothy Day

Dorothy Day arrested at nuclear site

[Sapere aude]

40. This is the kind of shit that pisses me off about xians!

Why don't xians go believe what the want and leave others to their beliefs? I just don't get it? The only thing I can come up with is that they are not secure in their faith and they need the security of numbers. Fuck them!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

42. Christ hopes to 'reach' Evangelicals

Maybe he can do it via the Buddhists.

[Fozzledick]

47. Not likely to get very far

The more accurately they express the actual teaching of Jesus, the more he sounds like a Bodhisattva.

The more they distort it to conform to church teaching, the more it sounds like ignorant attachment to name and form.

What can their second-hand "faith" offer to one who has actually experienced being "born again"?

[Zomby Woof]

50. I hope to reach evangelicals

And slap the shit out of them.

[ComerPerro]

51. why is it that evangelicals hate being evangelized to?

try to tell them about another religion, even for a second, and they flip the fuck out. Or if you tell them you are atheist or agnostic, they go apeshit. But they have no problem forcing their views upon others.

[DrunkenMaster]

52. BWAAHAAAHAAA!

Omigawd. The potential for hilarity is mindboggling...

Xtian: God is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end.

Buddhist: God is nothing.

Xtian: That's blasphemy. God exists and is Something.

Buddhist: Everything is nothing. You are nothing. I am nothing. God is nothing. Nothing came before the alpha and will remain after the omega.

Xtian: What about sin and evil?

Buddhist: Evil is caused by uncontrolled desire.

Xtian: Ah, now we are getting somewhere! So you admit there is Evil?
Aren't you afraid of burning in Hell?

Buddhist: Hell is nothing.

Awesome.