National Healthcare and contacting Senators: Is there some small logo item

[supernova]

item like a keychain or similar to an AIDS ribbon that we could send in the mail to Congress showing boatloads of support for a public option? Anything small that would fit in and envelope and not cost much to mail.

What kind of logo would fit this purpose? The medicare logo? the HHS logo?

I'm thinking mostly of Schumer and all the rest who want to remove or delay a public healthcare option. We could also send to congress folks who are already on board to add assurance that we do support public non-profit healthcare.

Ad personal persuasive stories about being helped by national service and being hurt by the current rapacious insurance industry and you've got yourself a campaign.

I was just thinking that Congress people get a TON of letters about a brazillion subjects but the small items would definitely be noticed and not confused with other causes.

Or maybe not mail them, but have someone like Skinner *ahem* or somebody at MoveOn to deliver in person.

Anyone else thinking similar?

[DesertFlower]

1. i don't think it would do any good.

their minds are already made up.

[supernova]

2. Thanks, Debbie Downer

:P

[Oregone]

3. Support for the public option?

Maybe we can all send in small bottles of Vaseline.

[supernova]

4. Yes, the public option

Not sure the Vaseline would set the proper tone, though.

:P

:rofl:

[Oregone]

5. Which "public option"?

Because, as of now, all it exists as is loftly rhetoric and a few hard points by Schumer promising disaster. You are getting sold a bad bill of goods, so the Vaseline might come i handy.

[supernova]

6. You have me confused

with a confused person.

Public option - The one we are going to get them to write and pass.

Right now, there are a bunch of proposals, that's all they are. proposals. We have the opportunity to get in there and shape the debate.

Unless you just want to sit here and whine on DU and play with your Vaseline.

[Oregone]

7. Here is my perspective...

The entire concept of a public option is a GROSS compromise (essentially spawned from a "Third Way" philosophy of pandering in all directions at once, and not upsetting private industry).

So before anyone should damn well even support that general approach (which could be a disaster or a success highly dependent upon the legislation), there needs to be a clear defined plan and a line drawn in the sand outlining the bare minimum that will be accepted. Hence far, that doesn't exist.

When there is actually something to get behind that doesn't look like shit, Ill send my little icon in for you. I sure as hell am not going to send in my "icon" and money behind some general "Third Way" approach that could become an abortion. Meanwhile, Obama is asking everyone to jump on board and send in their money and name, yet outlining little to nothing substantially specific.

I understand your idea of "Shaping it". That doesn't happen and its not reality in this representative democracy. So far the compromise concept of the "public option" has been shoved into the public sphere while being shaped by the proxy legislators of the health care industry. It will be written behind close doors when it is said and done. When you sign off your support, it might be better to wait until you see what you are signing off on.

[supernova]

8. I think you

thrive on being unhelpful for no reason than you think it's fun.


Look, I personally would love a UK-style NHS and yes, I'd be willing to pay higher taxes for it. Perhaps you were thinking I don't. Well there you have it. So, take your "Third Way" and stick it where the sun don't shine.

However, I am practical. I'm NOT going to sit on my hands and do nothing about this. You can't effect anything of you don't get out there and promote anything. You can sit here and whine if you want. But I have a vested interest in getting in the debate. I have congenital heart disease that for 3.5 years out of the last 7, I have been uninsured for.

edit: Of course they won't willingingly vote for it. WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM.

[Oregone]

9. How practical do you have to be, when your party controls the entire legislative process?

And if you think they are infallible enough to not support a single-payer plan because of a conflict of interest with the private industry (or whatever justification you can arrive at), what makes you think such failures would still enable them to deliver a viable "public option"? This whole thing seems to be shaping up to reform for the sake of reform, and until a viable plan is produced, I will stick with my preferred reform of single-payer. I won't yet send money, support, or a single minute of my time to loftily rhetoric and ambiguous notions that could very well fizzle. I am realistic enough to understand this is not a direct democracy, but a representative democracy. You only shape the legislation at the ballot box, and that much is done. Until an elected leader with backbone can draw a line in the sand with some finite uncompromisable positions on what the fuck a "public option" actually is, they can screw off. Its a compromise maneuver in the interest of private industry to start with, and I'm not sure why the hell anyone is willing to support an ambiguous notion open to more perpetual compromise.


On edit, Btw, I think its damn helpful to point out just how hoodwinked you're getting on this matter.

[supernova]

10. Because you have to engage the fight somewhere

You never get to breech the fort walls if you don't start the fight to begin with.

You seem to have given up before even starting. You seem to want someone else to do the heavy intellectual and politcal lifting.

Getting to UHC won't be a one shot deal, despite what the President said today It will evolve over years, perhaps a decade or more. That's the way our system is designed to work. Yes, it can be painful and frustrating, no doubt about it.

But we have to begin.

[Oregone]

11. A public option CANNOT evolve into UHC if it is inherently unviable

Will it be publicly funded? What will its negotiating potential be? Will its acceptance as a billable insurer be mandated? Will private companies be more regulated in terms of terminating coverage of high-risk consumers? Will everyone, across the board, be forced by law to disregard pre-existing conditions?

Now those are some specific question that anyone with a brain ought to be demanded answer to before wasting an ounce of fucking energy in the matter. The US may just blow their load on this, and it just may be a bunch of bullshit. If that happens, you will be shit-out-of-luck for another 50 years coming.

If its reform you want, you may want to figure out what kind of reform before coming out and swinging blindly.

[supernova]

12. Nobody is swinging blindly

least of all me.


For the record, I like:

HR 676.

And Sen Kennedy made some good points today as well.

You're letting your vision of what's shiny perfect inhibit your ability to see what's useful to do in the present. I find it curious that you seem to be attacking me for not personally being responsible for my own comprehensive plan that you just know will pass 99-1, RIGHT. FUCKING. NOW.

I wonder why, exactly?

[Oregone]

13. What I am attacking...

Is the entire notion that anyone should be supportive of some ambiguous plan simply because it sounds good and is offered by Democrats.

The fact of the matter is that it is 1) a compromise approach in the first place, 2) open to compromise as long as it remains undefined, and 3) it could be *worse* than the current clusterfuck in the right conditions (see Schumer's approach, who will have a hand in actually drafting the legislation).

If I am going to be in favor of reform, and I have to pick a plan now, its going to be an actual plan (example: Single-Payer). In the meantime, if the elected leadership that actually shapes the bills (yes, don't feel too empowered just yet) comes up with a viable plan, they might just be able to add some support. They don't get it automatically.

[supernova]

14. You are a very confused person

about our legislative process.

If we don't get in there now and influence what gets proposed, like your single payer, we should as hell won't like the outcome.

But according to you, it's better to wait everybody out then huff and puff and sniff in derision from the sidelines.

And with that I'm done with you because you don't see the value of doing anything.

Bye.

[Oregone]

15. You are making some strawmen arguments here...

"If we don't get in there now and influence what gets proposed, like your single payer"

Yeah, but signing on my support for an ambiguous "public option" (like the start of this thread suggests) falls very short of influencing legislation on single payer. I actually do support people getting behind single-payer, and I have done so myself as well as supported the appropriate foundations. Its actually a real plan, mind you. When I get behind it, I damn well know what I am advocating for, as it will actually manifest itself


"But according to you, it's better to wait everybody out then huff and puff and sniff in derision from the sidelines. "

No, as I said, if I am to support a plan, it will be a real one: single-payer. And that is what I have done. There are leaders behind it, but they are being shut out. I don't see one true leader behind a public option, because we, as a people, don't even know what the fuck it will be yet. And why the fuck would I waste my time defining it personally and advocating it, when I already have a more preferred and viable method?!?


"you don't see the value of doing anything"

I do not see the value of contributing financially or materially to undefined lofty rhetoric, with no clear basis.

[supernova]

16. We're talking past each other

Put me on ignore if you don't like it.

[Oregone]

17. I like it a lot actually

I will take every chance I get to shit on the nice sounding mystery plan, as long as it remains the mystery plan; I have a real plan to get behind in the meantime. People need to open their eyes here and see the smoke and mirrors that *may* be going on.

This "plan" may be like flashing a box of candy in front of a kid to get them excited, and then taking a dump in their mouth when they close their eyes and open up.

[supernova]

18. So what's your big, beautiful plan?

I'm listening.

You don't get to "shit" in my thread without using TP and washing your hands.

edit: And I've alerted on your abusive language.

[Oregone]

21. Mandated, well-funded single-payer insurance for all

And as that system goes, no pre-existing conditions screening, all billable procedures instantly paid for, and private insurance banned for the same services.

Single-Payer Medicare.

Its not implausible. Its quite a bit cheaper than the current system. And it is as perfect as its funding levels, PERIOD. Its also something that could be established tomorrow if there was a will. Most of all, its a real plan, with real leaders and direction. Hell, there is even pre-written legislation to accomplish this.

Sorry about my potty mouth. Id hate to expose you to nasty language on the internet. Its normally tougher to find naughty words on the internet than recorded Donkey Shows.

[supernova]

22. Again, you are potty-mouthing

the wrong person.

I never said I didn't want that. I would support it whole-heartedly. In fact, this thread was in support of anything even close to that. I don't know where you got that I didn't.

:wtf:

And I'm sorry you were raised in a barn that it's so hard for you to have human skills. :eyes:

[Oregone]

23. "this thread was in support of anything even close to that"

With all due respect, it appeared this thread was in support of a "public option" movement (public/private mixed market approach), whatever the hell that actually ends up being based on how terribly bad the legislation is. Sorry if I just totally mis-parsed your words, eh?

Barns aren't all that bad.

[rucky]

19. How about a Band-Aid?

:shrug:

[supernova]

20. That has possibilities

It's cheap, it clearly says healthcare.

Worth exploring.