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Children Raped at Abu Ghraib, General Taguba Calls it a War Crime

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Vyan Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 02:37 PM
Original message
Children Raped at Abu Ghraib, General Taguba Calls it a War Crime
Edited on Thu May-28-09 02:57 PM by Vyan
Reports of children being raped to force their parent to give information have long been alleged by award winning journalist Sy Hersch (Video) but now a report via the Telegraph UK reveals that this allegation is true, and that their were even pictures.

Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'
Photographs of alleged prisoner abuse which Barack Obama is attempting to censor include images of apparent rape and sexual abuse, it has emerged.

At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.

Further photographs are said to depict sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.

Another apparently shows a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.

Detail of the content emerged from Major General Antonio Taguba, the former army officer who conducted an inquiry into the Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq


Instead of coming from some radical Human Rights organization, this information is coming from a former U.S. Army General, the man who headed the investigation into the Abu Ghraib scandal - and was prohibited from looking at the involvement of higher-ups in these crimes.

Is it rather interesting that John Yoo publicly and specifically argued that *THIS WAS LEGAL*.

John Yoo publicly argued there is no law that could prevent the President from ordering the torture of a child of a suspect in custody – including by crushing that child’s testicles.

This came out in response to a question in a December 1st debate in Chicago with Notre Dame professor and international human rights scholar Doug Cassel.


Video - http://www.youtube.com/v/hz01hN9l-BM

Cassel: If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?

Yoo: No treaty.

Cassel: Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo.

Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.


Geneva doesn't prevent that although it says there will be NO AFFRONTS TO PERSONAL DIGNITY or threats against the family of a detainee? The UN Convention Against Torture doesn't prevent that? 18 USC 2340 (The Torture Statute) and the 18 USC 2441 (The War Crimes Statues) don't outlaw this?

If so, then nothing is outlawed.

The Memo in question is Here (pdf), in it Yoo argues essentially that the Torture Statute only applies if you intent is to "cause severe physical harm" - but if you have some other reason/excuse, the law doesn't apply.

The infliction of pain must be the defendants precise objective.


Although the Torture Convention specifically argued that purposes of "pain inflicted for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person a confession of information... is prohibited" - Yoo tries to argue this away with the argument that words "specifically intended" are included within the ratification documentation of the treaty as approved by Congress.

He argued that since the intent was to gain information or cooperation from the subject, or even a third party as opposed to the simplistic sadistic goal of causing pain for it's own sake, it's legal.

Rob bank and keep the money = Illegal. Rob a bank and give the money to charity = Legal. Rape a child for shits and giggles = Illegal. Rape a child to get their parents to infiltrate the insurgency and report back to you = Legal.

Get it?

And since Yoo put this view into a memo and it was stamped as valid by the Justice Department, it's pretty hard to argue complete ignorance when exactly what he wrote - is what happened in Iraq.

Maj Gen Taguba’s internal inquiry into the abuse at Abu Ghraib, included sworn statements by 13 detainees, which, he said in the report, he found “credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses.”

Among the graphic statements, which were later released under US freedom of information laws, is that of Kasim Mehaddi Hilas in which he says: “I saw ******* a kid, his age would be about 15 to 18 years. The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets. Then when I heard screaming I climbed the door because on top it wasn’t covered and I saw who was wearing the military uniform, putting his **** in the little kid’s ***…. and the female soldier was taking pictures.”


Let me point out again, that various prior memos by Yoo claiming that Geneva didn't apply to the Taliban or al Qaeda were never written or amended to include civilians detained in Iraq who very clearly would be covered by Geneva and any actions such as these would clearly be - a War Crime!

General Taguba agrees:

Maj. Gen Taguba saw the horrors first hand during his Abu Ghraib investigation and he believes the Bush administration is guilty of war crimes.

In a preface to a report by Physicians for Human Rights on prisoner abuse and torture in U.S. military prisons Taguba wrote: "There is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes. The only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held to account."



Vyan
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. the leaders of our country refuse to do anything about this
they believe this will just go away or worse no one cares. unfortunately i believe they really do not care that this happened.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Then it is up to WE THE PEOPLE to hold our 'leaders'....
...feet to the fire lest WE THE PEOPLE be deemed complicit in the eyes of the world. If it was right to force many of the citizens of post-WWII Germany to clean up those nazi concentration/death camps then it should be equally right for the world to hold us accountable for the actions of OUR out of control government.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
40. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. Deleted message
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Now USA Today has the story.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-05-28-iraq-abuse-photos_N.htm

I thought this was only a foreign media thing, but apparently the Pentagon has some new people to refute, the story appears to be spreading.

The crazy thing is that I don't even know if this stuff is true, but I actually have to assume it is, because of the secret nature of the photos. Generally when people hide something, its because there is something to hide. If Obama's telling the truth and the photos don't show this stuff, I wish he'd just release them. We need to move on, the economy is what should be central right now.
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brendan120678 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. If it isn't true...how can you prove it with pictures?
I'm not saying if I believe it or not. I'm sure that there were atrocities committed at these prisons. But half of the stuff that is being claimed seems kind of far-fetched.
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Good question, but I think its just a matter of showing intent, establishing trust.
I think when an organization sends the message out that no kind of abuse will be tolerated, and its open enough about it that when bad things happen it fesses up, it establishes a faith, a trust with the public so that when they are accused of something bigger the public can see its contrary to the way the organization has conducted itself in the past, and will be more skeptical of the claims. When I see what looks a little like a cover up of some abuse photos which the president claims are not that bad, I can be DAMN sure that if abuse photos exist which are worse, they will absolutely be covered up, because that's how the organization overtly conducts itself. Do you see?
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
47. Eh
When has he claimed that the pictures were not "that bad"?

Wasn't the argument that the information contained in the pictures had been reported in writing already? Which may or may not be correct, ofc.
But I don't think he has downplayed/dismissed the severity of the content.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #47
56. Yesterday
His press secretary said the pictures described in the British press were not the ones Obama was refusing to release.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Many officials of both Parties who have seen them
have said there was rape and murder and utter sadism. Rumsfeld for one. So in what way is any of this far fetched? Rape is a fact testified to by Bush administration officials and Senators. So what exact half do you find far fetched, and based on what? People who'd rape and murder and commit sadistic tortures have lines they draw, is that your argument?
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. thanks for posing that question..
and with 10 fewer f-bombs than i would have included in the post i was working up to. a lot of people in full-on denial mode around here.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Sy Hersh reported this in 2004.
Seymour Hersh says the US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

"The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking," the reporter told an ACLU convention last week. Hersh says there was "a massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there, and higher."

Some of the worse that happened that you don't know about, ok. Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib which is 30 miles from Baghdad <...>
The women were passing messages saying "Please come and kill me, because of what's happened". Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out.

It's impossible to say to yourself how do we get there? who are we? Who are these people that sent us there?


Daily Kos

Oh, and here's Mr. Hersh's biography from Wikipedia:

Seymour (Sy) Myron Hersh (born April 8, 1937) is a United States Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist and author based in Washington, D.C. He is a regular contributor to The New Yorker magazine on military and security matters.

His work first gained worldwide recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting. His 2004 reports on the US military's mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison gained much attention.

Hersh received the 2004 George Polk Award for Magazine Reporting given annually by Long Island University to honor contributions to journalistic integrity and investigative reporting. This was his fifth George Polk Award, the first one being a Special Award given to him in 1969.

In 2006 he reported on the US military's plans for Iran, which allegedly called for the use of nuclear weapons against that country. In 2008 he reported on US covert action plans against Iran.


I believe Mr. Hersh's report; I do not believe the Pentagon.

Finally, after five years the story goes mainstream. We need to see these photos and we need to take appropriate action...now!

All this was done "In Our Name."
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. It doesn't matter as our president is unwilling to investigate or prosecute.
:shrug:
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Anybody who supports this cover-up is an accessory to rape.
That means you, Obama.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. No prosecution = Precedent established. The world is watching
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. May I post this on my website news section?
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Vyan Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Yes, be my guest n/t
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. it's all hearsay..
at least that's what i read here from the resident apologists... errrr, fanboys... uhhhh, democrats.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I haven't seen anyone here claim anything of the sort
And this is not new information. We've known about these horrendous crimes for years- including the sexual assaults. Was rape ordered from high up? That's the question that needs to be answered through investigations.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. one example..
there were a couple of other posts here yesterday as well. it's an ugly part of our history that we need to address head-on.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5736720&mesg_id=5736775
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
35. don't forget "do you want your emotionality to block the important job of forcing Americans to buy
health insurance"
And the old standby, "you'll make us lose in 2012!" (the same crap we heard from the drones in '02, '04, '06, '08 whenever anyone peeped up that maybe NOW we could maybe stand up to the nation's defilers). I'll say this once: blind loyalists, if you want to turn the US into Pinochet's Chile, you'll have to ban voting in the book clubs, since a nationalist Naderite might get in
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #35
59. yeah, well obama is the last chance i'm willing to give the dems..
Edited on Fri May-29-09 11:47 AM by frylock
this guy has four years to start getting this shit in order. i don't expect things to get fixed in the first hundred days, or the first four years. but the direction i've seen gives me no hope that anything of substance will be accomplished.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Absolutely sickening...I feel like a German in Nazi Germany..Obama NEEDS to deal with this! n/t
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. he's too busy handing out TARPmoney, asking for funds to build embassies in Pakistan
and attending white tie dinners in California.
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Vyan Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Actually it's not his call..
it's Holder's, as to whether this will be further investigated and prosecuted. Some of the soldiers on the ground here have already been disciplined and prosecuted, but the link up the chain to Yoo, Bybee, Rumsfeld, Rice and particularly Gonzales who personally authorized techniques against Zubahdah even before receiving legalizing memos from the DOJ.

Vyan
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azul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. If they release photos that could be considered child porn,
would they have to arrest themselves?

Included in the torture crimes are acts so heinous that it is damaging just to see them, and the decision is to look the other way and not inflict such serious harm on this country?

And was this part of the perpetrator's plan to avoid prosecution?
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bobshin Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Actually, he's the leader of this country. It's technically not Obama's call
to prosecute, but it's his fucking job to be a fucking leader. This is embarrassing to read this in the privacy of my home, is this not also shameful in the eyes of the leaders of this country? How could anyone publicly representing this country not make a fucking statement about this? And to ignore the fact that the people responsible all the way up the the President of this fucked up country will not be held accountable is the most fucked up shit ever!

Excuse my language. :banghead:
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
20. "Enhanced Seduction used to save American lives!!!"
I'm sure the freepers will come up with a way to spin this...
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. obama is letting the killers run things. like all his predecessors since........
since the first fucking army. obama is refusing to release the pictures to please the "pentagon" (meaning all those fuckers who kill for a living on my dime.) we the people do not control these entities. this is who we should be attacking. this is what needs to change. they apparently don't care what we the people want. which is for them to be the ones who are unemployed.
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solstice Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
23. There are no words. WHY is Obama turning a blind eye to this????
Edited on Thu May-28-09 08:31 PM by solstice
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
38. He apparantly hopes it will just fade away into the background.
Edited on Fri May-29-09 01:39 AM by Kablooie
And if it does, in my mind that would make him complicit.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. wow that Woo is as f9(ked up as Cheney - they're disgustingly evil & cruel people
I cannot understand why Obama turns a blind eye by saying there will no punishment, how sad..... I guess ultimate power corrupts, because B*sh has shown you can do whatever the hell you want as president and nothing, absolutely NOTHING will happen... why mess with a good thing.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. From Abomination To Obama Nation...
...where moral blinders force us to "look forward," while we slide backward into the abyss.

--
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
36. ouch
:thumbsup:
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
26. Rape of a military prisoner is a war crime.
The U.N. needs to really open this up and seek international justice against all who created this policy.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R
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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. We have protested, written letters, marched and been arrested; Here is were we got our info
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. We're being told to "move on". nt
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
30. Is the Christian coalition still supporting Bush's war of lies after this?
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
42. Considering this has been out for years, I think it is safe to assume so.
Especially in light of the fact that that largest number of Americans that actually think torture is a valid tactic is christian.

Not all of them of course, but enough.
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
31. Yoo needs to be disbarred and jailed for the rest of his life.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bring them home!
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. Oh, that wacky John Yoo.
Let's just hand him over to the Iraqis and see what they can do to him that's not illegal.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Doncha just wanna crush his testicles?
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Jeep789 Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 04:32 AM
Response to Original message
39. Sorry, I couldn't read past sanctioning stepping on a child's
testicles. What kind of sick mind would sanction that? Those that would, need psychiatric help themselves and certainly shouldn't be in charge of their own households, let alone a country. We obviously need better mental health care and research so we can prevent whatever mental health problems Yoo, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. suffer from.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
41. "Family Values"
"Right To Life"
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. If Jesus came back today in America, he would not recognize the majority of Americans who call
themselves christians. What he would see is a group of people who are racist war mongers who are intolerant of anybody else who is not in their clique.

This would be the same group of people who would readily hang his ass back up on the cross again.

There are a few people in this country who truly follow christs teachings, but not many.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
43. the fourth branch of government may be the only one who corrects this problem

I hope it continues to throw light onto the issue like is happening currently - it is the only one who can bring this out into the open and it needs to live up to its responsibility
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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
45. ohgawd I hope that's not true.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
48. I'm getting sick and tired of reading thread after thread
about how the children were raped. I WANT TO SEE SOME ACTION!!!

Where is Obama on this?? If HIS children had been raped you can bet your sweet bippy he would be front and center.

Hersh has been talking about this for a year or more. Members of Congress have alluded to, or stated outright, that it happened (if I'm not mistaken). Frikken' GENERALS have said so. The European press is all over it. Christ Almighty!! What is it going to take??

If some low-life Repug talk show host with an IQ lower than a bowl of Rice Krispies said that Dems were consorting with aliens on the WH lawn, it would be accepted as true, and there would be 14 simultaneous hearings in Congress to get to the bottom of it.

But this??? Oh, never mind! They're gonna parachute those celebrities into the jungle next week and I gotta get me some beer and make sure I TIVO it.

It's incomprehensible to me that our so-called REPRESENTATIVES aren't leading the charge. And if, as some have suggested and I also believe, there are Dems who were complicit, then they should go to prison along with the other monsters and sexual perverts that infested the Bush Administration. For life!!

I suppose that means I'm not a good Germ.....err, I mean, a good Democrat. So be it! I don't align myself with monsters. :argh: :grr: :banghead:

:rant:




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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #48
53. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Deleted message
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. I have maintained right along that Cheney, Rummy, Bush,
and their ilk, were interested in those forms of "interrogation" for a reason, and it had nothing to do with getting national security information.

Snuff films. Mastubatory fantasies. Pedophilia. Some day (maybe 30 years from now) we will know. Hopefully, the whole lot of them will be roasting in hell by that time. Monsters, all!

Thank you for the link.


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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #58
70. Oh Great! The replies AND the link got deleted...
I was going to come back to it. Good to know someone's watching over me, though. I wouldn't want to make any independent decisions on what I read. :(
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
49. Did anyone see Jesse Ventura on Countdown last night?
He said Congress will never investigate bush war crimes because an investigation would show the dems were complicit too. Not all of them, but certainly enough that they would be implicated. It also explains why Obama keeps saying he wants to "move forward" because if no dems were involved, he would never make such statements.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Yup
The rendition program (picking people up and taking them to be tortured in foreign countries) started under Clinton & Gore in 1995, and is a violation of the UN convention against torture, which was signed by Reagan. I wouldn't be surprised if torture had far more dem complicity than that.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/139356/architect_of_cia_rendition_program:_if_torture_prosecutions_go_ahead,_indict_clinton_too/

Architect of CIA Rendition Program: If Torture Prosecutions Go Ahead, Indict Clinton Too

'I sent people to places where the president wanted them sent...we told (him)...you're going to have human rights problems and he said I don't care.'



To me what is insulting is that it sometimes feels like Obama expects us to just be so cowed by his charisma that we abandon our support of human rights and the rule of law when he asks us to. Pisses me off.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. kicking for that last comment! shame on the Dems who back "going forward & not looking back"
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. And I'll kick for that last comment, too. ...
I'm just appalled that Obama can talk about "moving forward" in the face of the information that's coming out.

Makes me wonder what acts would have been horrible enough that Obama would be moved to consider prosecution. None, is my guess.

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GAtomboy Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #49
63. That's exactly right!
Jesse Ventura hit the nail on the head on Olbermann. Rebuplicans AS WELL AS Dems would be found guilty, so we should all just move on. That's BULLSHIT! I don't care who was involved, I only care that they are held accountable...."Move on"... I'm so sick of hearing that. I am rapidly losing respect for Obama.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
50. KICK AND RECOMMEND!!!
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
55. K&R
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
60. MEDIA EXPERIMENT...... POST THIS..COPY AND EMAIL.... PUT ON FACEBOOK... lets see ==>==>==>
LETS SEE IF THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES CAN OUTDO THE MEDIA AIRWAVES ON THIS
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. I AM BETTING THAT 6 DEGREES OF SEPARATION CAN GET THIS ON THE NEWS ! ! ! !
we are all on DU because we don't believe that the NATIONAL MEDIA is covering these issues... i think.

we have the ability to spread this VERY IMPORTANT STORY through..... twitters, emails, facebook, myspace etc......

LET'S TEST THIS THEORY.... COPY THE LINK AND THE STORY... SEND IT TO EVERYONE.... MAYBE WE CAN GET THIS ON THE STREET

(i feel like such a newsie)
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. DU should be able to depend upon US to get this word bigger and better OR DO WE JUST READ IT??
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
64. HEADS MUST ROLL
If the HEADS who authorized these WAR CRIMES are not brought to justice, then this NATIONAL SHAME will linger like the stench of a putrid corpse and MORE WAR CRIMES are inevitable.

Did Obama's testicles get crushed too?
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
65. this is not going to fade away--need action-stat!!!
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
66. How can any human being, let alone an elected official sworn to uphold the rule of law,
allow those who authorized torture to walk away with impunity all in the name of "looking forward" and "not relitigating the past?"

I am literally ill to my stomach. :puke:
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
67. So stop singing and start swinging! When do the war crimes tribunals start?
HELLO! If all we do is blab about it, we aren't going to go anywhere.

Like Ventura said to Olbermann last night, as long as nothing is happening you can be certain that both parties are involved. As far as I'm concerned that means we're in bigger trouble than it even seems.

Purge Congress. I wonder how that would work. I won't be holding my breath. But it's what needs to happen.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
68. But Boss Limbuagh will call it "Child care."
What is Mr. Bouncy-Bouncy going to say about it?
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
69. It will be a sad day
If the neo-cons together with neo-libs manage to suppress evidence, and stifle convictions today, there will still come a day, 10 or 20 years in the future when this time period will be regarded as the blackest in American history. And the sad part is that Bush together with Obama will be regarded responsible. One for allowing it, and the other for covering it up. What a tarnish on what could have been a exemplary presidency.
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