Is there anything you'd die for? Today?

[TahitiNut]

Is there any 'cause' or principle for which you'd stand up and sacrifice your life ... today?

"A man who won't die for something is not fit to live." (Martin Luther King, Jr.)

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/598

[NYC_SKP]

1. Today? No, I got nuthin...

Maybe tomorrow?

[closeupready]

2. Can you be more specific?

??

[TahitiNut]

23. Why don't you just ask "In what respect, Charlie?"

:eyes:

[kentuck]

3. I read your post in your journal, 'Nut...

K&R !

[TahitiNut]

6. Thanks.

It's the best I could do. Contrary to the sophomoric posturing I see so often, it just ain't that simple.

[kentuck]

8. LBJ - Long Binh Jail...

I've heard tales about that place.

[TahitiNut]

28. Most likely they were true.

Some 'not-very-nice' folks in there.

Then again, a chicken-shit LtC in our unit put a GI in there for not wearing his uniform baseball cap, walking back to his duty station after getting a haircut.

[kentuck]

29. I heard a few guys were stuck in there during a mortar and ...

rocket attack without a lot of cover or bunkers to jump into?

[TahitiNut]

32. LBJ was about as central to Long Binh as it gets ... and sandbagged.

At the same time, it's just not wise to build cover and concealment INSIDE a prison. So, it was entirely possible (but unlikely) for incoming indirect fire to hit inside LBJ. Them's the breaks. The indirect fire was pretty scattered and "pot luck." I saw one round hit the MP barracks two down from mine one time ... and another time there was a round that hit the Warrant Officer barracks. Yet another time one hit within about 75-100 yards of me while I was high-tailing it across a field. Most of the time, we'd hunker down behind the bags or in the bunkers we built after I'd been there a few months. (Filling sandbags and building bunkers in Viet Nam's weather is a damned good way to lose weight.)

[TahitiNut]

82. I should've talked about the most important thing about LBJ ...

LBJ, the POW compound, and the MASH/Medivac facilities were all grouped in the center of Long Binh Post and NOTHING there was a legitimate "military target." This was deliberate. Under the (mythical) "rules of war" such facilities are carefully isolated from anything (troop barracks, arms, etc.) that might be regarded as a legitimate target. Thus, to the degree any indirect fire hit near there, it was the result of criminal intent or ineptitude. I think that's something most folks without combat zone experience don't comprehend -- that attention is given to such "niceties."

[flyarm]

4. yeah to get my constitution back ..from all the crooks in DC..you bet..and

to get back Habeas Corpus..

and to stop the spying on Americans

to get rid of the shadow government running our country

to get healthcare for all in this nation

to abolish the PATRIOT ACT.

To stop the damn wars

To stop our government officials from Detaining people with no rights to our courts

To hold those responsible for torture in my name held accountable to the fullest degree of our laws

To get back real "rule of law"

To get back my vote that was stolen in the primaries. ( FLA) the most precious thing i had..and i say had because it keeps being stolen by both parties!

just to name a few things.

[RB TexLa]

5. My wife

[BeFree]

7. There have been many...

...who have died believing they were doing so for a good cause or principle.
To those much is owed.

To those who created the reasons that forced them to sacrifice much is also owed.

I've often pondered what it might be that I was willing to sacrifice so much for, and have yet come up with a good enough reason. But there is still time.

[11 Bravo]

If to save the life of my wife or children would require sacrificing my own ...

I would do it.

[Inspired]

9. My kids are the only thing. n/t

[shanti]

41. yes

me too...

[jennied]

10. Probably anyone I love (family members, maybe a friend or two)

[zorahopkins]

11. I'd Die For A Kiss

I would just die if I could get a kiss from the man who replaced the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, and who is our best hope for a future that brings peace, prosperity, gender equality, justice, and love.

That's right, I'd die for a kiss from President Barack Obama.

[LooseWilly]

After that, I'd die for a drink...

[Kaleva]

12. I honestly can't answer that till the situation arises.

Nobody knows what they would do if there was a situation where one would have to choose between sacrificing one's own life or not for whatever reason.

[DianeG5385]

13. My Kids

Without them life would be bleak.

[adigal]

73. Me, too - if anything ever happened to my kids,

I would want to die, so I know I would gladly die for them.

[OHDEM]

87. Me 3! eom

[kenny blankenship]

14. Goldman-Sachs? AIG? Citibank? UnitedHealth Group? Monsanto? Microsoft? Halliburton?

I think not.

There's plenty of things I'd be willing to die for. But this fucked out shell of a country doesn't make the list anymore. It turned its back on the people living in it 30 years ago, and it ain't coming back. Ever.

[floridablue]

17. The Ray-Gun legacy

[liberalmuse]

15. Wow, what an amazing journal entry.

I guess the guy who shot himself at the 9/11 monument after Bush was re-elected was willing do die for something. I'd thought about jumping off a building with a sign opposing the war, and wondered many times if setting myself on fire in a prominent place would help (or if I even had the balls to do it), but I wasn't someone worthy of respect or who embodied peace like the Buddhist monks did during Viet Nam, and thought that would hurt the cause rather than help it. 'Some stupid bitch offed herself because she didn't like Bush or the Iraq war. Crazy liberal!' If you're going to die for something, I guess it helps if you actually lived for something, and sadly, I just don't fit the latter. :(

[frebrd]

16. Other than my cat, probably not........

Anyway, it's difficult to stand up under this bus.

[northernlights]

18. when I think about it, no. But

the reality is that on a couple occasions I've risked my life to save others.

The one that stands out in my memory was in Rockport, Massachusetts on Bearskin Neck, the day after I was laid off from the high tech startup. An escaped toddler started to run out into the street, where an oncoming car had no way of seeing her. Her mother was helpless at that point, way too far behind to grab her. She let out a strangled scream. I ran into the street and in front of the car to chase the little girl back to the curb. The driver saw me and hit the brakes. I realized the car wasn't stopping in time and jumped sideways just in time. It stopped rested against my shoulderbag.

What amazed me the most was how many people on *their* side of the street failed to stop to assist as they were passing by. I was watching the scene unfold from the far side and intervened when I realized that absolutely no one on that side was going to help. They could have blocked the little girl before she reached the curb without risk, and at a cost of a couple seconds. Very sad statement on our society. :(

[DFW]

19. My wife and my children, or my brother's children

Anyone or anything else is somewhere between "depends" and "fugeddaboutit."

[Mr. Ected]

20. I'd Like To Think I'd Step In Front of a Bullet Aimed at My Wife or Kids

But I can't even fathom the thought for more than an instant.

[L. Coyote]

21. Let's remember those who have. RFK JFK, MLK, Lincoln, Ghandi, .... please name a few too.

How many Americans did Reagan/Bush murder, or try to murder?

Viva Ben Linder, Viva Linda Frazier ....

CHRONOLOGY OF JOHN HULL'S ALLEGED CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES June 7, 1991
http://www.williambowles.info/ini/hull-chron.html

[TahitiNut]

22. Rachel Corrie

A life worth living.

[proteus_lives]

44. Ugh,

I honestly don't see why people have canonized a Hamas camp follower.

[TahitiNut]

45. OK. So, I'll take that as a "No."

:shrug:

[proteus_lives]

48. I just don't think she stood for peace.

She died for what she believed in but people have turned into something else. If it came off as too angry, I apologize.

[KoKo]

88. Amazing wasn't she......

The life that get's little traction beyond her family and many who try to get out what happened to her...but are shunted off to dungeons....SILENCE...

[TahitiNut]

94. I think so.

I respect such passion - placing one's life on the line for a better world ... no matter whether I or others agree with the choices. The choice is nearly irrelevant. It's the dedication that counts. Living in integrity for a day is better than living as a hypocrite for a century.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. But, they didn't "give" their lives. Their lives were taken.

The guys who crashed the planes into the Twin Towers, suicide bombers, and the Buddhist Monks who set themselves alight to protest the carnage in Vietnam, "gave" their lives.

Big difference.

[Thothmes]

84. How many Americans did Johnson murder,

36,000 American, several million Vietnamese. Actually Reagan and Bush are pikers when it comes to mass murder. JMO

[KoKo]

89. He's just one of the Crowd...of Presidents.... At least we have numbers on Johnson's Murders..

We don't know the REAL totals from the rest of our Esteemed Presidents.

[Lucian]

24. In all honesty...hell no.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. Maybe. But, there's very little that I would kill for.

Hypothetical situations aside, ("I'd die for my wife" - "I'd kill if I could prevent...").

I'd certainly not die, or kill, for something as nebulous as "My country", or "Freedom", or "God".

[tularetom]

26. Dunno about a cause or principle but I'd do it to save my wife and kids

And for my grandkids (except maybe one).

And possibly for my dogs.

[mdmc]

30. There is much that I would be worthy to die for..

thank you for the OP

[Lyric]

31. If my death could secure equality for my brothers and sisters, yes.

I'd gladly die for that, and hope that my little boy would understand why someday.

[Douglas Carpenter]

33. for my family and for the cause of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East

Although right at the moment I cannot conceive of any scenario in which my death would help one little bit in either cause.

[radiclib]

34. Yup

[Artie Bucco]

57. What does Jenny Lewis have to do with this....

Just saying.

[radiclib]

59. Just sayin' what?

Like Jenny's not to die for?:P

[Artie Bucco]

61. I agree

I have a cigarette pack autographed by her in my car. I have been meaning to pick up The Execution of All Things on vinyl but odds are I will by a few Los Fabulosos Cadillacs vinyls and The Gaslight Anthem 59' sound.

[Mechatanketra]

35. Cute statement, Martin

I expect, though, the good doctor believed in an afterlife; from the perspective of someone who suspects this is the only shot we get ... frankly, it comes off anywhere from snide to monstrous.

[Patchuli]

36. Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wynYMJwEPH8

Just as He did for me...

[konnichi wa]

37. Nothing comes to mind.

A dead man has no chance to do anything positive.

[Fumesucker]

38. If I thought it necessary to save the lives of my family..

I'd do it in a New York minute.

If I die today I will have had a pretty good life in many ways.

[nini]

39. my family

especially my grandson since he is so young and hasn't had a chance yet.

[Posteritatis]

40. I'd like to think there is

Though I'm also pretty sure I won't know until, god forbid, I'm confronted with the opportunity. I certainly hope family and some friends would wind up on the list.

[Peacetrain]

42. My son, my husband, my family.. they are my primary cause

for life.. Principles, yes, there are those that are worth an ultimate sacrifice. The safety of the person next to me at any given time. I would try and survive but I would be willing to do what I needed to do to save the people around me.. and I guess that means I would be willing to die for my country. I actually believe that most of us would, because we would do it instinctively.. who would not run out and grab a child in the middle of the street with a car coming. Who would not reach out to a drowning man or woman..

[TahitiNut]

43. As much as I love children (and dogs), I've always felt some degree of pity for those ...

... who need to have children to give their lives meaning.

:cry:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

74. What about the people

who have dogs to give their life meaning?

Now that's really sad.

[Stinky The Clown]

46. I can't vote .......

..... the older I get, the more cynical I become. Were I to die for a cause, would it really, actually matter? There are many issues I feel VERY strongly about. Issues for which, as a younger but far less evolved man, I might have considered dying for.

Now that I understand ...... and see ...... and consider ....... and, yes, now that I know ....... I am less inclined. Or maybe just not as passionate about some things for which I was passionate before.

And maybe, in reading Dr. King's words, and considering age, maybe that's not inconsistent.

Or maybe its just passion fatigue.

[proteus_lives]

47. Your journal entry is really great.

It reminds me of my dad. He's a Vietnam vet and to this day he's impacted and conflicted about it. He's struggled with it. He loved/hated the army and He hates that the US was in Vietnam and he hates how in his words, "We were there but we weren't allowed to fight in the way that would allow us to win." He hated fighting but loved the discipline and order of the army. He's still in contact with a few of the people that made a mark on his life there.

He has also said that he actually missed Vietnam at times. He has told me if not for my mother being back in the states, he would have signed up for another tour. It's complicated and he's said hateful and respectful things about the Vietnamese people. It's hard to pin down how he really feels about them and I don't feel like I have a right to ask for a clearer answer. One thing that stood out to me, was his respect for Vietnam itself. He said, "It's a beautiful part of the world, it's depressing to think that humans always find the beautiful places to start chopping each other up in."

His experiences leaked out in ways I didn't understand when I was little. The house rules like, never enter your father's room without calling out "I'm coming in!" or never walk up behind him without saying anything. He had a really bad period during the mid-80's when I was little. I didn't realize why at the time. I just thought it was "dad's rules"

Since I've gotten older he's slowly opened up more to me about it. He talks to me sometimes about it but never to my mother or my sisters. I have been heavily influenced by his words on things like war, nationalism, friendship, morals, respect, feelings and emotions. It's hard to explain because it's affecting me and guiding me.

He's a complex man. Hard and affectionate, cruel and wise. In the end, I respect his words "No one has the right to tell me how to feel about my service." I think that's why he very joined any vet orgs or went to the Wall in DC. He's still working it out for himself. A few months ago we were talking about Iraq and Blackwater, (whom he loathes with a passion, he thinks mercs are scum) and he suddenly says, "I want to have a complete talk with you about 'Nam. What happened to me, what I saw and did. I'm not ready yet. But we'll have that conversation before I die." I hate it when he talks about dying. He's 63 and it's too real for him.

I could go on about him for pages but I mainly wanted to say thanks for sharing. Have a peaceful Memorial day.

[TahitiNut]

64. I think I'd like your dad.

Even though we'd probably disagree half the time. :shrug:

[proteus_lives]

68. I think he would like you too.

And everyone disagrees with him half the time :-) He can be one of the most stubborn and argumentative people on the planet but he's also one of the most loyal and intelligent people as well. To this day when I have a big decision to make, I ask for his advice. Even if I disagree with him, his opinion is always worth hearing.

[virginia mountainman]

49. I would GLADLY give my life..

To save my wife and kids....

I am ready for that moment, now, if it where to come....

I would also gladly lay my life on the line to save my fellow citizens, in time of invasion, or intense internal upheaval.

These decisions was made long ago, so that if something was to happen, I would know what to do, without a 2nd thought.

[RagAss]

50. Family...and if anyone tried to force religion on me and mine...

[Umbral]

51. Something? No, Someone? Yes.

[DireStrike]

52. Nah. It would certainly make my life easier though, if I cared that much about any one thing.

[smalll]

53. Nutella?

/nt

[TahitiNut]

56. Believe it or not, Nutella is NOT

... my daughter.


:dunce:

[Toucano]

54. Is there anything to kill for?

EOM

[leftstreet]

63. ...

Good question

[BlooInBloo]

55. I'd die to see my fuckwit head of IT infrastructure's head on a pole.

[Mz Pip]

58. My kids

probably my friends' kids. My family.

Who really knows? I'm the sort of person who would swerve into a tree to avoid hitting a kitten in the road. Dumb? Yeah. But it's the sort of thing I'd do without thinking.

[SmileyRose]

60. I just hope to God none of us ever has to find out if we really will or really won't.

I hope all of us can spend our LIVES on something important - but our death won't ever be asked.

[piedmont]

62. There are principles I would RISK dying for, and there are PEOPLE I would die for...

But when you ask me if there's an abstract cause or principle I'd die for right now I'd have to say no, and the chance of any situation like that arising is virtually nil anyway. I just can't imagine it coming about that I could, by killing myself, guarantee liberty and peace for the world or any small part of it.

[hfojvt]

65. "Younger men always want to die nobly for a cause.

Older men just want to live humbly for one." Catcher in the Rye

"It seems as if no man had ever died in America before; for in order to die you must first have lived." Thoreau, speaking of John Brown

[Common Sense Party]

66. My wife and children.

Any children.

[kentuck]

67. What movie is it?

"Today is a good day to die.."

[kenny blankenship]

71. Little Big Man

[TahitiNut]

75. Those are the words attributed to Tasunka Witko ("Crazy Horse") of the Lakota

Such a perspective is typically aligned with thinking about "closing the circle" (of life) ... or never leaving a day with words unsaid or appreciations unvoiced. While the emphasis is on a "warrior attitude" (e.g. Klingons) in employing such words, the underlying philosophy is one of completion, fulfilling one's moral duties each and every day.

[JANdad]

93. The 13th Warrior...

[WonderGrunion]

69. A Klondike Bar

What would you do for a Klondike Bar? :wtf:

[w8liftinglady]

70. my children,...but if you are an activist in a red area..

you are effectively laying your life on the line every time you speak out.There are some crazies out there.

[JSK]

72. My kids n/t

[AngryAmish]

76. Prince agrees

[JitterbugPerfume]

77. I hope I would be strong enough

to lay my life on the line for someone I love , or for a cause that is just but never being faced with it I can't say for sure.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

78. I voted Yes

I would die if it would secure a real future for those who are growing up now.

If I thought my death would magically make our Constitution matter and that it would be honored and that people could not STEAL elections and get away with it. I would die for those values.

If we never had to discuss torture and its many merits--- ever... I would die to keep all people from ever being tortured.

If somehow, my death could prompt the prosecution of all those responsible for the Bush/Cheney legacy - I would die.

I would exchange my life for the lives of my children if I had to. I love them so much.

If my death could remove suffering and starvation for even a handful of people... I would die.

So yes, there are things I would die for but none of them would be in a war fought due to some insane religious beliefs over any kind of dogma or corporatist greed or for a flag of any kind. Believing that this fucked up occupation in Iraq is being fought so I can keep MY freedom is pure fantasy.

So I love my country and love my children and I love my life and I would die if I thought it WOULD make life better for them.

[Toasterlad]

79. This Is a Bad Day To Ask Me That.

Despite MLK's opinion, I think I'm of more use alive than dead. But if I knew that my death would bring equality...

[Mudoria]

80. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

[TahitiNut]

81. I guess you missed the word "anything."

Take a course in reading comprehension. :shrug: It might engender thoughts that are more than what fits in a fortune cookie.

[Iggo]

83. Yep. Plenty.

[KoKo]

85. Years ago..yes...Today? NO!

All the causes I would have died for...have not been worth it since I've lived long enough to see who profited.

On Edit: Not being famous I wouldn't have died a martyr who could get a following for my cause...instead I would have died an "unknown fool." That would have been shameful to me...to die a fool.

[BuyingThyme]

86. Might happen tomorrow.

I'll let you know.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. Yes but you knew that

my problem is that as I plot and think further into an after empire world, it seems to me that the nation that once was and existed is gone.

But you know I would...

Hell if you want I can share some of that logic with you... and Katrina was the point where I went, collection of regions, back to 1820s truly.

[MISSDem]

91. I guess my cats or my dog. Once my ex-husband, who was

abusive grabbed my dog up and lifted him by his collar off of the floor. I told him if he hurt him he had better kill me because if he didn't I would kill him. I never had any more trouble out of him. Would I have? I don't know. And I like to think that I would die for my country if ever put in a place that would require it. you know give it up or some city will be bombed or some such.

[KoKo]

92. I couldn't die for my cats...I'd take them with me. Wouldn't trust anyone but me

to care for them. And, if I killed myself I couldn't have any more to do with them and wouldn't leave them to an abuser who would kill me first then kill them.


But..to your point..the only think I would care enough "these days" to die for would be the closest to me. And, some would not be worth it (certain relatives) and, as I said...if I wasn't around because I "offed myself" I wouldn't be there to tend to the ones I love...cats and some relatives..spouse... I just wouldn't do it thinking I'd leave them without a defender. If it was me or them...I'd hope we'd all go together...if possible. Not to leave more victims to be easy prey.

[KoKo]

95. ....