Just got a call from unemployment

[njlib]

I was fired from my job 2/13/09 for attending nursing school, which started 7/28/08, at night. Two other people were fired within 5 weeks after I was, all three of our claims were approved by unemployment, and all three of our claims are being appealed by our ex-employer. I withdrew my 401k as a lump sum distribution, which dropped my weekly benefit amount by $7...no big deal. Well, since then I've had problems when I claim my benefits and they called me today to advise me to answer YES to the pension question. Nice lady, she's going to process my claim for the past two weeks, I'm going to do what she told me from now on, problem solved.

I then asked about my appeals hearing because I received the initial notification in early April, but still haven't heard from them regarding where or when the hearing is being held. Told her I just wanted to make sure nothing was lost in the mail and she said they were 2 1/2 months behind in appeals and that I'd probably be receiving notification towards the end of June.

I remarked that I didn't know they also worked Saturdays and she said they're working 7 days a week now and will be there on Monday! I knew NJ was being hit hard, but having the unemployment people working 7 days a week AND holidays?? It's worse than I thought.

[AllentownJake]

1. Scumbag employers are playing games to try to keep their premiums from going up

They should institute massive fines on employers if their appeals are denied.

Capitalism is working, Capitalism is working, sigh.

[imdjh]

Not that it's relevant- but why did they fire you for going to school?

[njlib]

8. My story

I was the accounting/hr/mommy/therapy department and would've been there 8 years 3/16/09. Never took more than two consecutive days off, never took all my available vacation time, always scheduled any day off around payrolls and certain other tasks, was usually the last one out every night and went in on weekends and holidays when it was necessary. Since I was the only one who did what I did, if I didn't do it, it didn't get done! Boss hired 35 year old son in July of 2006 and it didn't take long for me to figure out that Sr. was starting to "slow down" and Jr. was an idiot who would most likely run the place into the ground. I was never happy doing the books, but could never figure out what else I wanted to do. Normally, I'm the type of person who will hem and haw, kind of "thinking" myself out of something. At one point, I thought about paralegal...but when I thought of nursing, I just plowed ahead and jumped in with both feet!

Anyway, I was dumb enough to share my excitement about passing the entrance exam with the people I thought I could trust, one of which was our Sr. VP. Next thing I know, I'm getting called into Sr.'s office with another VP to witness, and being told "I know you're going to nursing school". This was back in early May 2008. I told him school didn't start until the end of July and I'd graduation January 2010, provided I passed all my courses the first time. That conversation ended friendly enough, but I now had to figure out who was the rat. It didn't take long before Ms. Sr. VP's behavior gave her away. I cooled my relationship with her, just business now, no friendly chit chat, and ended up getting called in again November 11, 2008. This time, Ms. SVP was there and it was the loudest "meeting" that office had ever seen! Sr. couldn't get a word in edgewise while the two of us went at it! She was "hurt" when I accused her of being the rat and turned on the tears. I told her to cut the crap and the boss just sat there. Now, normally anyone who dares to speak harshly to or at the office queen would get a good tongue lashing from the boss...but his silence spoke volumes! She kept asking what my plan was, I kept repeating my plan was to graduate Jan. 2010 and we went round and round for a good half hour. Finally, I said "YOU come up with a plan and I'll cooperate 100%". Then I got up and left the two of them to discuss the events of the morning.

Next thing I know, the rest of the office is getting called in and told that they'll be looking to hire my replacement and then I'll be let go!! Got that info from a co-worker, they didn't even have the decency to call me back in and talk some more before they informed the rest of the company what their intentions were. So, my replacement was hired 1/5/09 and on 2/13/09 I was given a letter, signed by Sr., stating they no longer required my services and were cutting all ties with me! I think it was a combination of Sr. being paranoid that I'd eventually graduate and leave, SVP being pissed that I had the nerve to defend myself against her ridiculous bullshit, not kissing Jr.'s ass and telling him when he screwed something up (he'll be there 3 years in July and STILL doesn't know the business, industry, or what everyone in the office does), and only being able to stay late on Fridays (school is Mon. - Thurs. night til 10pm).

So, I apply for unemployment and because I was fired, I had to wait 6 weeks to have my claims interview over the phone. The claims examiner was very nice and told me Jr. told them that I "resigned verbally"! I asked if Jr. had forwarded my termination letter to the examiner and he said "They gave you a letter? Please read it to me now". Once I read him the letter, he explained how I needed to file every other Monday and asked me to fax him my 401k paperwork. A few weeks later, I receive the letter saying they're appealing the claims examiner's decision...

So, that's my tale of woe! Glad you asked, huh? :)

[imdjh]

10. Wow. It's a wonder you haven't taken a baseball bat to someone. nt

[njlib]

12. LOL

It was really tough to control myself in that meeting and for the last few months I was there! Not to mention, my replacement was still e-mailing and calling me for help after I left! She'd call at 10:30/11:00 at night and ask me question! This was AFTER I trained her from 1/5 - 2/13 AND wrote down every step of every task I performed! It got to the point where I'd tell her to "look in your book"! My claims interview was 3/11 an after hearing what Jr. told them, that was also the last day I answered any of her questions!

Since they're fighting all 3 of us by claiming we all quit, I'm hoping the state is going to see the pattern and turn up the heat!

[kestrel91316]

14. As an employer, I am always very supportive of my part-time employees'

educational efforts. I had one who worked for me for years while getting her BA and MA, who I knew would eventually move on to a FT corporate job. I would NEVER think of holding someone back from pursuing an education.

Sheesh. Your employer is an asshole.

[njlib]

18. Thank you for being a good boss!

Your employees are very lucky and I'm sure they've appreciated your cooperation!

Yes, he always had his "assholeish" moments, but they were never directed at me. I was usually able to tell him he was being an asshole, calm him down, and reason with him when it involved another employee. I think what made this worse is Jr.'s hiring. Queen Sr. VP realized that Jr. was a threat to her security - she makes the most money, comes and goes as she pleases, puts in about 20 hrs. a week in the office, and treats people like crap - and used me to show the boss how "loyal" she is and how "disloyal" I was. That's why she ratted me out...it was the politically convenient thing for her to do. Also, she was on the hot seat the previous year due to her clients' complaints about her lousy work ethic. Sr. was beside himself over what to do about the situation and who do you think he went to for advice??? Me and the guy who ended up walking out on 9/15!! Plus, Sr. takes things personally and I'm sure he was offended that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life there. From what I understand, Jr. and the Queen are the ones behind the appeal...it pays to still have friends in the office!

[njlib]

15. Forgot to add...

They also placed an ad for my job on Craigslist on 8/21/08 which I have printed out, along with Jr.'s reply to an e-mail inquiry stating that "the position's been filled". That and my termination letter will be the evidence I bring to my hearing.

[mrs_p]

33. it just seems so bizarre

that they can fire you b/c you were going to school on your time. were you management, therefore obligated to be there until all work was done?

btw - best of luck on the nursing school!!

[njlib]

35. I could've worked 24/7 and it still wouldn't have all been done!

Thanks for the good wishes!

[melm00se]

34. you won't like my take on this

but it sounds you like you may have been terminated "with cause" for insubordination and you may find that this is the basis of their appeal. If that is the case and they can prove, with witnesses, that you did pop off at a manager, there is the distinct possibility that they will prevail.

Piece of advice:

never discuss any pending adjudication in public. your commentary can be admitted as evidence against you.

[njlib]

36. Thanks!

Their ad was posted online 3 months before our "boisterous meeting" and the termination letter refers to school and nothing else. I'm hoping those two things will be enough for me to prevail.

[NJCher]

2. I think it's really bad

I'm a landlord and have a tenant who quit paying. I filed in landlord tenant and it's taken them three weeks just to get the papers filed.

That means tons of people are not paying their landlords.


Cher

[imdjh]

5. And we're off.

I wouldn't assume that these tenants aren't paying because they can't pay. It's just as likely that they stopped paying strategically. We have people staying in their foreclosed houses until the last possible minute- not because they have no place to go, but because they live for free while they can. The apartment communities are so desperate, they are advertising crazy move in specials and discounts. "We're losing our house." has no stigma any more- so it's not a barrier to renting. You tell your prospective landlord, "We're losing our house." and he's as likely to console you with the ease with which you can move into his property as to tell you to get lost.

As for my premise- the guy across the street from me has had two of his last three tenants pull the scam of working the eviction laws. They move in, pay a month or two, and then it takes three months to get them out plus an additional month lost due to timing. How can anyone carry an investment like that? He's taken a second job to pay the shortfall.

[stray cat]

6. Employers and landlords are not necessarily evil perpetrators but can be victims

thanks for the clear reminder. Everyone is trying to stay afloat and some are also taking advantage of the situation.

[Doremus]

20. Sign up with Section 8. No more late payments, no more deadbeats.

[lostnotforgotten]

3. What Was The Employer's Justification For Firing - Why Is Nursing School A Bad Thing?

eom

[njlib]

9. See my post above

Nursing school is turning out to be a great thing for me! I love doing clinicals and will never get stuck behind a desk, pushing paper all day long, ever again!

I think the boss was also afraid I'd just walk out with no notice. We did have one employee walk out 9/15 and another e-mail his resignation letter on 10/14, but I think that with all the time I put in that was over and above the 9-5, my dedication was proven. I told him later on, after the big blow up meeting, that he shouldn't let people get him all riled up, I wasn't going to walk without notice, and that Jan. 2010 was still 14 months away! I was the only one who did payroll, so even if I wanted to screw him, how could I screw the people I'd worked with for almost 8 years? I wouldn't do that.

[sandnsea]

4. On your 401K

What does that have to do with the amount of your unemployment benefit?

[njlib]

11. I don't think it should have anything to do with it

but it does! To me, what's the difference if I have money socked away in a savings account or if I withdraw my 401k in a lump? I'm already getting hit with the penalty & taxes, so why I have to take another hit with my unemployment benefits is beyond me. They never asked if I had any kind of savings account, stocks, or any other investments. It only decreased my benefit amount by $7/week. Believe me, if it had been more, I would've made a stink!

Now, I'm just stressing about this appeal. From what I've been told by more than one unemployment employee, they very rarely ever go back and reverse the claims examiner's decision and I have a very solid case. I was also advised by a friend's significant other, who is an ex-prosecutor, that I have a solid case to sue them. NJ is an at will state, so they can fire for any reason. What they can't do is lie to the government by saying I resigned...especially when they gave me a termination letter!

[Randypiper]

24. Are you paying for you health insurance?

I don't think you have to pay penalties on the portion of your 401k withdrawal that you use toward health insurance premiums while collecting unemployment. I think it is one of the exempted hardships listed. Check with the IRS.

[njlib]

27. I declined COBRA because it was over $800/month

That was for employee/child coverage! My son is a full-time student, so he's now on his father's insurance. I went to the doctor in November because the stress was making me sick. He gave me blood pressure meds, anti-anxiety meds, and sent me for a mammogram and bone scan, so I'm in good shape as far as those things go. I haven't needed ANY meds since I'm out of there and am normally pretty healthy. I get two colds a year and that's about it!

Even with the new legislation, it would still be a few hundred dollars a month that I'd have to pay and with the cut I'm already taking being on unemployment, it would be too hard to get by. So for now, I'm rolling the dice.

[upi402]

7. It reminds me of the fall of the USSR

I've just left a site where a big company, many workers, and a ton of equipment - is now a rubble-filled hollow shell. Depressing, as I'd been to the bustling site many times before and knew the folks.

I remember a guy pumping his fist up when Bush was re-elected. Well, the machine his crew operated was scrapped because nobody had money to buy it and there was no money to store it. I hope that chicken enjoyed his vote for Colonel Sanders.

[njlib]

13. Yes...

Part of me doesn't have any sympathy for the idiots who didn't see past the wedge issues and voted against their own self-interests, but a bigger part of me is just so pissed off about what's become of things and how those of us who did pay attention are also being screwed. I think the decline in self-described republicans is a good thing and if things start to turn around in the next four years, we'll be in charge for quite some time.

[ejpoeta]

16. how can you be fired for attending nursing school on your own time?

[njlib]

19. NJ is an "at will" state

They can fire for any reason and the employee can quit for any reason. The firing isn't what I have a problem with...it's the lying about it in order to screw me out of the benefits that I earned for all the years I've been working. They're forgetting that the employee pays into the fund, too!

He was always very quick to point out that I was a hard-working single mother when it made him look good, when he was trying to impress upon someone what a great guy he was for hiring me. He even used that when he called the other employees in to tell them about everything. He told them that I never went to college because I "wasn't able to because I was a single mother" and now that my son was older, I was able to go back to school. First of all, my ability/desire to go to school and change occupations is none of my co-worker's damn business and he had no right to even say such a stupid thing. Second of all, I was 23 and still married when I had my son, so even if I had gone to college right out of high school, I would've graduated by the time I was 23! My son just turned 19 two weeks ago, which makes me the grandma of my class!!

[ejpoeta]

23. sounds like a real stand up guy!! boy, you must owe him EVERYTHING

for hiring you, a single mother. Like you didn't earn your place as an employee with all your hard work!! i am sorry you are having to go through this... but on the bright side, it sounds like you like what you are doing now. and you can give nursing all your hard work!

[njlib]

26. That's pretty much what it boiled down to in his eyes

You have no idea how I kick myself now for missing school functions and putting in so much of MY OWN time over the years. In my case, it really was true about all that time and effort not getting me anywhere in the end. Since the arrival of Jr., morale is in the toilet, everyone's only concerned with covering their own ass, and "management" is paranoid & can't stand each other! It really is just a matter of time before they cease to exist and I hope that the friends I still have there can get out before it gets to that point.

Thanks for your understanding and yes, I really am enjoying school and my clinical experiences now. I'll be starting maternity clinicals the first week in June and am hoping to be able to see some "action"! From what I understand, if no one's in labor it's a pretty boring rotation. One of the doctor's is very good and will call the students over, with the patient's permission, and show them the uterus, fallopian tubes, etc. before he closes a C section! Gross, I know, but interesting as hell!! It beats pounding away on an adding machine any day of the week!

I always hated school, which was the main reason I didn't go to college when I was younger. I couldn't see spending the time and money if I wasn't sure what I wanted to do in life. Now that I'm older and wiser (ha, ha), I love it! I encourage anyone who's thinking of going back to school or making a career change to DO IT!

[ejpoeta]

32. well there's one thing that makes school look good.... being out in the world

and seeing just what that schooling can do for you. bust your ass at a job you hate or at least have a chance at something better. good luck with school.

[Tesha]

38. Some jobs have "no moonlighting" clauses; this could be broadly-interpreted as that.

Also, "at will" workers can be fired for any reason at all except for being
a member of a "protected class".

This surprises a lot of people.

Tesha

[yewberry]

17. Don't stress about the hearing.

You're right--they very rarely reverse decisions, and your letter of termination is solid evidence that you didn't resign.

Employment Security is way behind in my state, too. I have to talk with them routinely, and the last time I did, I was told they were about 3 months behind.

[njlib]

21. Thanks for the vote of confidence!

I'm afraid to be too confident because I don't want to have the rug pulled out from under me. If I do lose, then it's my turn to appeal, and I can still collect during the appeals process.

What I need to do is make my appointment to see if unemployment will approve payment for what's left of school, but I haven't wanted to do that until this was all settled, just in case I lose. Since I've still got another month before I find out what's going on, I guess I'll have to make the appointment anyway. It's going to be time to submit the next round of financial aid paperwork soon, so I have no choice.

[Doremus]

22. Just a thought, but aren't you allowed to use 401k funds for things like

college without penalty?

I seem to recall something like that, though admittedly I haven't had a 401k in many years.

Best of luck! Sounds like you have a bright future waiting!

[njlib]

28. Thanks for the encouraging words!

I'm using the 401k money to supplement unemployment. I'm getting about $800 less/month now, so the 401k is my safety net. I'm just hoping to get by without any major house issues. I live in the mountains, so I need my well and septic to cooperate until I'm earning better money!

[W_HAMILTON]

25. Have you had any problems drawing unemployment...

...while going to school?

I've heard various things, where if you go back to college, you can be disqualified from drawing unemployment if you are fired. I suppose the reasoning is that if you are going to school full-time, you can't be working full-time, too (which is pretty stupid).

Have they said anything about that?

[njlib]

30. There were 3 things that flagged my claim and

contributed to my 6 week waiting period and mandatory claims interview. I answered all the claims questions honestly, so being fired, going to school, and pulling my 401k all needed to be investigated by the state. My termination letter took care of the firing, going to school at night while working full time took care of the school issue, and forwarding them my 401k lump sum distribution paperwork took care of the 401k issue.

Firing is an issue if you were fired for illegal behavior. School is an issue if you quit working just to attend school full time. I still don't know why the 401k figures into it because they never inquired as to if I had any savings. What's the difference if I take that 401k money to live on or if I withdraw from my own savings account to supplement the decrease in my income?

I'm still going to school at night because I haven't made the appointment to meet with the unemployment school counselor yet. I was waiting to see how my appeal turned out, but now I'm going to have to go talk to them next week. If they'll approve it and the school could make it work, I'd gladly switch to days. I was also advised by one of the nurses in my last clinical that it's a good idea to go for my CNA. It's only a few weeks of training, then sitting for the licensing exam. He said most places want some kind of experience, so the thing to do is work as a CNA while going to school. Unemployment lets you earn a certain amount of money while you collect, so I'd be OK with being a CNA part-time and then still going to school at night. I'd get a little extra money, get my foot in the door somewhere, and still be able to have time for my school work.

[anigbrowl]

29. On a side note...

If the unemployment claims processing people are working 7 days a week, I wonder why they don't hire more staff and save money on overtime? It's got to be cheaper to take on 40% more people (2 extra days being 40% of a 5 day workweek) than to pay time-and-a-half or more to existing staff.

[njlib]

31. Good point!

I wonder how they work that out. Maybe the employees alternate weekend duty or they have part-timers filling in? I'm going to ask them when I go for my appointment. I just found it very surprising and unsettling that a state agency handling unemployment issues is working 7 days a week and holidays. Not a very encouraging sign...

[MiniMe]

37. Good thought, but the people working are probably salaried, not hourly

They work their ass off, and no extra pay.