Obama Lawyers Urge Rejection of Plame Leak Suit Against Cheney, Rove

[Robbien]

May 20 (Bloomberg) -- The Obama administration urged the U.S. Supreme Court not to revive a lawsuit accusing former Vice President Dick Cheney and other officials in the George W. Bush White House of illegally revealing the identity of a CIA agent.

U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan, the government’s top courtroom lawyer, told the justices in a legal filing today that a federal appeals court was right to dismiss the suit by former CIA operative Valerie Plame.

The suit also names former White House political adviser Karl Rove and former Cheney aide I. Lewis Libby.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBANfIYr6RBY&refer=home

[billyoc]

1. More three dimensional chess, no doubt.

:rofl:

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. LOL!

:spray:

[QC]

60. Of course!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Q0lTtPVTG40/SXUe78pcKdI/AAAAAAAAnEc/TGLVLQpStYI/s400/spock+chess.jpg

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

69. well here's a rook (crook) crock

CIA officials that tortured in our name don't get prosecuted.

The Bush administration, who revealed a NOC CIA agent cover, and likely caused great harm or death to CIA agents working with her, caused no harm to her or her family.

So says the Obama administration.

[alfredo]

77. Let's see if things change after the mid term elections.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

84. you mean like the last time

things changed after mid term elections, right?



Do you have any skin in the game, any personal skin in the game?

I do. I was counting on change immediately following the Inauguration.
In a very personal way I Suffered during the Bush administration. I pleaded with our Congress, both Houses for help. I wrote Senator and then President Obama for help, for Justice.

Nothing has happened, nobody has helped, no one responded.

I listen to our president talk about our "core values" the "documents behind me on the wall" the Rule of Law, knowing as I sit in my home that our core values, the Constitution, The Rule of Law are empty words, meaningless in my life - an American citizen.

When an American communicates to elected officials that would include the current President, the current Vice President, the current Secretary of State about Constitutional violations and violations of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and no one responds - for years, no questions, no inquiries at all even though numerous emails were sent. I have a list of members of Congress who I've contacted. None have done as much as contact me back, but one. She suggested I get a lawyer.

I have contacted so many lawyers and centers including the ACLU and nobody gives me the time of day.

If you were in my situation perhaps your patience would be as thin as mine and you wouldn't be so willing to wait another 2 years for justice that isn't going to be a reality.

[alfredo]

91. Hey, I want those bastards to go down too. They really fucked things up

big time. I know that if we don't act Spain and probably other countries will act. They will be held accountable.

Right now the junta is twisting in the wind. They know everything is falling down around them. Let them get nervous, let them make mistakes and implicate themselves.

If anything it is Holder that needs to know our feelings. Obama can't do shit in that department. It's Holder's job. Keep the pressure on him.

We need a Special Prosecutor. I've already wrote and called my representatives. I've written in my local paper.

Keep the pressure on.

[JDPriestly]

89. Yea, sure. Doublecross more likely.

Now that Obama is elected, he thinks he can ignore human rights, civil rights and even the rights of CIA agents. Wow, were we mislead about Obama.

Congressman Kucinich -- stay out of small planes and keep your verbal ammunition dry. I did not support you last time, but you are looking better and better. You have a history of standing up to oppression. Apparently President Obama is not up to that task.

[mitchtv]

2. I',m stunned, I tell ya

stunned:argh:

[EFerrari]

3. Is Valerie Plame jeopardizing our troops, too?!

Damn.

[riverdeep]

4. Ok, what am I missing?

On the surface it sounds like a craven protection of those who committed an act of treason. Is there some sort of legal endgame I don't know about, or is this really what it looks like? If it is what it looks like, what is he going to achieve when none of his base shows up on 2012?

[sofa king]

68. Not the best answer, but:

Part of the situation is that the Obama Administration inherited some of these suits and it is bound to pursue them in good faith.

I recall many of us crapping the bed when the Bush Administration intentionally tanked a number of lawsuits against the mining and logging industries, and the reason why is that those court losses established terrible precedents behind which corporations will hide for years.

It's questionable whether it was even legal for those people to do such a thing, so that strategy should be off limits to the more law-abiding Obama Administration.

However, the Obama Administration may wish to see through some of the legal arguments already put forth by its predecessor. If those arguments are wrong (as the recently released legal memos seem to suggest), they will be crushed in the courts. Good precedents will be established, without taking a pratfall to do it. The legal system is not mocked, which helps if you're trying to reestablish the rule of law.

One annoyance of this approach may be the flak that they have to take in the press and the public, because signaling their intentions could be used against them in court.

All of this is just a guess. I'm sure I just proved I'm not a lawyer.

[JDPriestly]

90. You certainly proved you are not a lawyer.

A lawyer has an ethical duty to avoid making frivolous arguments, i.e., arguments that have no merit in court. A lawyer also has an ethical duty to refrain from making misrepresentations to the court.

Finally, a lawyer has an ethical duty to present a vigorous defense of his or her client. At the same time, a lawyer has a duty of loyalty and an additional duty of confidentiality to the client.

These duties have to be balanced. Here, in my view, fundamental questions
are: "Who is the client in each case?" Is it the Bush government or the government currently serving as the elected government of the United States. I would say it is the latter. Therefore, the duty of the lawyers in the Justice Department is to represent the interests of the Obama administration. In the Plame case, I believe that the lawyers are representing the interests of the Bush administration, not the American people or the current administration. This is true in several other cases also. The Obama administration should be concerned about whether their arguments could help establish precedents that are harmful to the greater interests of the country. I believe that the arguments in the Plame case encourage careless handling of information about CIA officers and that for that reason they are against the interest of the United States.

Further, the Justice Department lawyers should not present frivolous arguments or misrepresent facts in the court. I am not an expert on the Plame, FISA or other cases, but I believe that someone who has an objective view in the Justice Department should review those cases and decide on whether the arguments that are being presented are frivolous.

[Mythsaje]

5. What, me WORRY? Nah.

I'm sure it's a tactical decision. Really.


On edit: I based a character in one of my books on Valerie Plame. Thought it appropriate, all in all.

[Dragonfli]

15. OT - Which Character if I may ask?

[Mythsaje]

Valerie Winn, from "Sword and Shadow."

Val's a bit naive to start out, but ends up kicking some serious ass by the end. Mostly it's just her name, and the fact that she's a pretty blonde, but she was based on Valerie Plame.

[Dragonfli]

24. I just started reading that one today

Only on page 22 and she just met Raven (and his "unapproved" guns LOL).

I read Magitech Lounge over the weekend - excellent work by the way.

I always loved the Heinleinian Multiple world fantasies so I was a ready made fan.
:yourock:

[Mythsaje]

27. So glad you're enjoying them.

Excepting the one my wife is editing (slowly) right now, Magitech Lounge is my favorite so far.

I do enjoy the dynamic between Val and Raven, though.

[KansDem]

6. Why?

They committed treason. Why not bring them to justice?

Aren't murder and treason the only two offenses that don't have statutes of limitations?

I don't understand this...

[City Lights]

So much for being a nation of laws.

:grr: :mad: :argh:


:puke:

[fascisthunter]

7. how disgusting.... who the hell do you work for?!

"we the People" or the fricking republicon nazis? If you can't reign those in yopur own country, how the fuck will you make a lasting impression on the World. This isn't change! This is the same shit that has brought us to this point. Are their anymore people in this country who give a damn? Are we to expect two different set of laws... one for all of us, and one for Republicans? Fuck that!

[femrap]

85. Bo is bought and paid for....

he isn't going to rock the boat. He's got the title now. I'm just so relieved that I didn't buy into all his marketing hoopla.

I am disappointed that he is being such a jerk....but I am not surprised.

If I had worked getting him elected, I would feel betrayed. I learned my lesson in '06 when the Dems didn't even try to Impeach.

They're all Corporate Cocksucking Fatherfuckers.

Gee...anyone gonna alert on that?

[femrap]

94. Just for the record....

I am so happy my post wasn't deleted. Thanks!

[drm604]

8. Damn

:banghead:

[DURHAM D]

9. I just wish this was a surprise.

New regime same as the old regime.

[tridim]

10. Doesn't this free Plame/Wilson to sue Cheney in civil court?

[drm604]

13. Hmm

Interesting point. I'd still prefer to see criminal charges for outing an agent and an entire network, but a civil suit would give some satisfaction.

My fear is that if they do try to sue, the government will try to block the suit on national security grounds.

[Garbo 2004]

39. The Wilsons's lawsuit, the case they are appealing is a civil suit. nt

[The Hope Mobile]

79. Does it? I'm wishing there was some hidden agenda that made sense

but so far I'm not seeing it.

[MarjorieG]

11. Maybe we have to prove other stuff first?

[Horse with no Name]

12. Not surprised. At all.

While I have been pleased with SOME of Obama's moves, I've not been surprised with many others. This one included.:(

[ProgressIn2008]

14. That's okay, I'm sure he'll give a speech about it. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

61. !

:evilgrin:

[howmad1]

75. Would you buy a used car from Obama?

Man, this guy is looking more and more like a sleazy used car salesman. Lots of promises but very little delivery.

[corpseratemedia]

16. the more the Obama administration cedes to the war criminals

the more the criminality of the deeds won't go away

it'll fester like a boil on the Democratic party unless, from the top down, the massive lying and torture and false premise war campaign is dealt with honestly.

taking the criminals' side top down seems to be helping the repugs


why have any system of justice at all?


yes perhaps some Dems will be tarnished because they thought appeasing criminals was the good, weak thing to do.




bye bye votes for 2012

[nichomachus]

31. Worse than that

bye bye votes -- and money -- for 2010. Obama could find himself with a Republican Congress for the rest of his presidency.

[Soylent Brice]

74. that's what i've been thinking about a LOT lately.

[Amonester]

93. well... no change there...

and he'll probably feel more at home anyway...

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

17. Remind me again, just what the hell was I voting for

last November? It sure wasn't this shit.

[FiveGoodMen]

19. Got that right.

I can no longer make myself believe that Obama and I are on the same side.

[slay]

23. Indeed

Yet another WTF moment from Obama. I guess when you decide to engage in a COVER-UP - you go all in. Not releasing the photos, not upholding the rule of law regarding torture, and now this. How many more times will Obama cover for the Bush administration? One? Two? A hundred? I was talking about this type stuff with relatives yesterday and even though we all voted for him, we all agreed, this is not the man we voted for, and this is sure as hell not the change he campained on. I understand wanting to move forward, but how can we move forward when we don't even fully understand the past? :shrug:

[yy4me]

28. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I'm about up to here in the "no investigation" baloney.
That is not why I voted for Obama and I feel abused by his decisions.

Lost faith in government? They keep proving there is cause.

How can this happen. I don't care how many days he has been in office, investigations should have been started long ago. It's not like it is new news.

[Echo In Light]

29. So why do so many keep buying the same BS over and over and over and over and over and over and over

???

Never underestimate the power of denial

[BonnieJW]

86. What I don't understand is

are these his decisions to make? Can he really "curtly dismiss" any thoughts of prosecuting the former admin for torture? That sounds like a dictator. I don't think it's in his hands. I do think that he can frown at the dems in congress and senate and let them know he doesn't want to pursue. It's going to take a Dennis K. to run with it.

[QC]

65. A younger, hipper Joe Lieberman, it now appears. n/t

[Echo In Light]

18. Man, this is getting ever more transparent by the day

It's as if they don't even care (sound familiar, Bushies?) that it's so blatant, so obvious. Guess they're counting on the majority remaining indifferent/oblivious as usual, and the rest who fucking know better to remain docile and passive. Wowzer bowzer.

[Dragonfli]

20. If the Apologists would care to explain this one....

... I'd like to understand it.

I get the sacrificing of all us pawns for the corporate royalty, but this is at least the sacrifice of a rook.

What is the game he is winning again?

[Garbo 2004]

50. Not an apologist, but I suspect this admin is protecting themselves against civil liability...

"sovereign immunity" and all that. That may be more the issue from the Obama Admin's position than protecting Cheney, et. al. as individuals.

(The Obama Admin also may not want all that other stuff dredged up for political reasons..."moving on" and all that...as we've heard before. But I agree with others that if there are no consequences and punishments for Executive wrongdoing and illegal expansions of power, there's nothing to prevent it from happening again.)

That's the problem with the claims of gov't immunity which were previously upheld by a lower court in the Wilson case: subsequent Administrations are unlikely to give it up since they also could be subject to litigation. And so far the Obama administration doesn't appear to be backtracking on using sovereign immunity as a shield. IIRC, Obama's DOJ argued sovereign immunity in the illegal wiretapping civil case. By protecting previous Bushco claims of sovereign immunity Obama's Admin are not just possibly proactively protecting themselves, but also certainly protecting Bushco's bunch of criminals.

Absent the ability to sue for Gov't officials' abuse of power that exceeded the scope of their legitimate and legal duties, there is no course of redress for a citizen who was the target of that abuse of power.

[Dragonfli]

51. Thank you, that at least sounds plausible and even

practical in "machiavellian" sort of way.
It is disappointing to me to say the least, but not so puzzling anymore if you are correct.

[Garbo 2004]

54. Yeah it sucks. From what we know from the Libby criminal case, there's enough to indicate that

what was done in targeting a critic of the Administration and his CIA employed wife exceeded the legitimate business of gov't, that those individuals acted with reckless disregard (they had an affirmative duty to ascertain whether the release of a CIA agent's identity violated the law against such disclosure), and those individuals should be subject to the civil legal process. At this point, the Wilsons are prevented from the discovery process that is needed for a court to determine if they have a case or not. If they go through discovery and still don't have a case, the court can throw it out. But right now the lower courts have said they don't even have the right to sue.

Not that I think the Wilsons would get a favorable ruling out of this SCOTUS, that would be a miracle.

So much for "accountability."

[donquijoterocket]

80. moving on

Nobody, either within or outside the administration has explained to me how the hell we're supposed to move on dragging the body of lies and criminal behavior bequeathed to us by the bushistas.Maybe if we had a real 4th estate instead of the corporate lapdog we've got we could get a sense of where this administration is coming from.It might be, probably is, wishful thinking to hope this is all just maneuvering before the hammer really drops.I also suspect that between the spinelessness of the majority dems and the willing recalcitrance of the blue dogs Obama's not real sure of the degree of support he'd get. Too bad. I advocate sending Jesse Ventura to the Capitol to run some shaping up camps. The way he's been kicking and taking on his blather show tour lately someone would hear a lot that they really don't want to hear and they'd better damn well like it.He's schooled Joe of the dead intern and some of the phucks noise bunch including shun sannity and they just sat there and took it except for the worm who walked out because it for to intense for him.

[Canuckistanian]

21. OK, this isn't a mistake or an overzealous prosecutor any more

Every single Bushco crime is getting dismissed.

Something's going on here.

[snappyturtle]

22. K&R Once. again, I am gravely disappointed.....eom.

[Mari333]

25. Two right wing parties.

Thats the only choice now we seem to have. Gore Vidal was correct. 2012, sorry Obama, you are losing your base.

[Bluebear]

44. ACLU

That's who is getting my contribution $ these days.

The party is not giving me much for my money.

[Mari333]

45. me too . nt

[librechik]

26. Kagan--she might be a new SC Justice?

good lord.

Obama must get his lawyers from the same employment agency that he got his Treasury Officials--
Cronies R Us!

[SammyWinstonJack]

66. The same employment agency where Bu$hco., INC got theirs, too.

Cronies R Us still going strong.

[G_j]

30. what next?

appointing Cheney to the Supreme Court?

[MelissaB]

32. WTF?

[Octafish]

33. If outting a NOC is legal now, is lying America into war OK, too?

With so many traitors getting off the hook these days, I'm thinking it's going to be all war, all the time for America the Empire.

[Echo In Light]

34. It's all good. No biggie. Don't worry, be happy. Why DWELL on "negativity?"

:sarcasm:

[lamp_shade]

35. I think I'll wait for the whole story. I'm smart like that. n/t

[Captain Hilts]

36. Those are my instincts also. But I'd like DoJ to express some frustration in the meantime. nt

[G_j]

40. what whole story?

the one we may never hear?

[Bluebear]

43. What whole story?

[tekisui]

56. What whole story? I'm not gullible like that.

[Mark Twain Girl]

37. At what point do we admit that this is actively engaging in a cover up?

I feel sick to my stomach. The Plame scandal was so awful in so many ways, too.

[Badgerman]

64. Not a cover up, part of keeping the Cheney expansion of Executive powers...a BAD thing!

[democrank]

38. Unfriggingreal.

Can`t wait to read the next batch of excuses.

[leftofthedial]

41. That Obama fellow is a GENIUS!

A genius I tell you.

[mdmc]

70. kick

I'm sure he knows what he is doing. I just hope he gets re-elected..

[Bluebear]

42. GObama!

:silly:

[QC]

67. It's not *that* kind of chess!

It's this kind---and he's about 5,876 moves ahead of mere mortals!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Q0lTtPVTG40/SXUe78pcKdI/AAAAAAAAnEc/TGLVLQpStYI/s400/spock+chess.jpg

[bvar22]

81. Chess....

Chess is a game where you sacrifice the Lower Classes to protect the Royalty....
.
.
.
.
Son of a Bitch !!!
Obama IS playing Chess!

[proud patriot]

46. big sigh

x( this is very disappointing

[mmonk]

47. That's it with me.

No need to go any further and pretend I'm ok fine with all this garbage.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

48. shameful.

[tavalon]

49. I wish the Obama lawyers would STFU

I get tired of them butting their noses in where they don't belong. Sheesh.

[Vidar]

52. Obama sides with Cheney's nazis yet again.

[DisgustedTX]

53. Rove was already indicted!

Oh. Sorry. False. May. 2006.

[Usrename]

55. Change we can believe in,

Oh, wait...

:banghead:

[Badgerman]

57. Obviously Obama believes in maximum Executive Branch powers...

This is NOT a good thing. Our checks and balances work if, and only if, the relative powers of the three branches are nearly equal. It turns out that our Constitutional scholar president falls way out on the fringes of how much power the Executive Branch should have and exercise. In effect such thinking is the foundation of the theory that the very best government is by benevolent dictatorship. I am not blowing smoke on this, there is a long history of discussion on this, and how to implement such a thing under a democratic republic.

[debbierlus]

73. Well stated

[PRETZEL]

58. In the saddest sense this wasn't unexpected,

the initial suit was dismissed on jurisdictional grounds, not on the merits of the case. The civil court and the appeals courts both punted leaving the Wilson's high and dry.

Nobody wants to touch this. Chickenshits.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

62. and the beat goes on........

[underpants]

63. The law was written to protect the people who wrote the law and their friends

They were never going to get a conviction.

[debbierlus]

71. Rove & Cheney get protection above a covert CIA agent who risked her life for the country

I wonder what blackmail Rove & Cheney have on the dems to make them constantly eat shit & do the exact wrong thing...

[anachro1]

72. The Higher Road

I wonder if it's Obama's attempt to pass health care that compels him to put aside other criminal offenses by the Bush administration?

How many more things will he grant a pass to?

I am quite disappointed in his always needing to take "the higher road." I want Republican blood.

[bvar22]

82. You might not like what the "Centrist" Democrats ...

..are cooking up and calling "Health Care Reform".

[Butch350]

76. Oh boy, more fodder for MMQB's

[RetroLounge]

78. I am SO amazingly surprised at this...

JABCM (Just another brilliant chess move...)

:eyes:

RL

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[guava]

87. This should be good...Let's see what logic the apologists twist in

a pretzel to explain this one!

[Dinger]

88. How Much You Wanna Bet She'll Be The Next USSC Judge?

Looks like she passed the ol' litmus test. This shit fucking blows.

[Political Heretic]

92. Unbelievable. Every day its some new major disappointment from this administration.