On 60 Minutes tonight: Anna Wintour, Editor-in-Chief of Vogue and the inspiration for the ........

[Stinky The Clown]

.... Meryl Streep character.

The word 'bitch' was heard liberally during her interview with Morley Safer.

I found her to be a demanding, no-nonsense professional. Tough. Driven. Demanding. Capable of instilling a certain level of fear in her subordinates.

But nowhere did I find her to be a 'bitch'.

Funny how our society loves that word, even when it doesn't fit.

[dsc]

1. Yeah can you imagine an interview with a black executive which used the n word

literally unimaginable.

[Captain Hilts]

10. Sexism is okay. I just came from the Trek movie. No women portrayed in positions of authority.

Because a lot of people still have problems with women in charge or women as authority figures.

I did really enjoy the film though.

[EndersDame]

17. The orginal 1960s tv show did not have women in authority roles

However the later incarnations did . Gene Roddenberry tried to push the envelope but the network would let him only go so far and Shatner stole most of Nichele Nichols lines. Seriously though They were following the story line of the TV series. If they make a Star Trek : Next Gen DS9 or Voyager (shudder) remake you will see better parts for women.

[Captain Hilts]

33. Another Voyager hater, I see. It would not have hurt the movie to make at least

one judge or something, female. The Starfleet officials were all male. The Vulcan science panel were all male. ALL people in positions of authority were male.

It would not have changed the salute to the original show to insert one woman into a leadership position.

Hell, Chekhov and Sulu were given extra talents in this movie but the only enhancement to Uhura was an underwear scene and a scene of her trying to run in big heels and a mico-mini skirt.

[seabeyond]

2. demanding, no-nonsense professional. Tough. Driven. Demanding.... definition of bitch

dontcha know. a man with that description would be quite complimentary and honorable.

aggressive women is a tough one for many.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Were you listening to our dinner conversation?

:hi:

That's exactly what were weer discussing. The traits that earn her the bitch moniker are admired when imbued in a man.

[seabeyond]

11. i am aggressive. and i live in fundieville.

i am not mean, insulting, unpleasant. i just say it and am done. call it like i see it. so hard, for so many. they think i am being a bitch and i am not. ah well. the wonderful part of aging... i am at peace and dont care, lol.

[babythunder]

3. If Anna Wintour was a Anthony Wintour

the interview would have consisted of questions about how driven he is, his successes etc, but the interview would have revolved around his professional accomplishments. There would be no talk of how big of an asshole he is to his employees.

[devilgrrl]

8. Absolutely! Let's talk about what assh*les Steve Wynn & Donald Trump are to work for.

:crazy:

[Baby Snooks]

26. Leon versus Leona

I meant to reply to this. Women really cannot win in the corporate world. They are eternally damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[KamaAina]

4. And the ex-wife of a former employer of mine.

Seriesly. He was two levels above me, but we did have weekly meetings in his corner office with its commanding Hudson River views.

So my Anna Wintour number is 2. :P

[Muttocracy]

6. video:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5021207n

Thanks for reminding me about 60 minutes tonight.

[Muttocracy]

7. Having watched, I totally agree with your OP! nt

[Captain Hilts]

9. It's unfair and perpetuates the false image of women being 'shrews', 'harridans' & mentally unstable

[Tangerine LaBamba]

12. Some inside dish:

my literary agent reps the author of "The Devil Wears Prada," and, maybe three years ago, I had dinner with both of them. The stories about Wintour that didn't make it into the book suggest far more than a driven professional woman.

She, according to the young woman who worked for her, and according to people my agent knows who deal with Wintour on a regular basis - publishers - is mean. Just a mean, self-serving, cold person.

Male or female, bitch is bitch. Mean is bitch. I don't think her gender - and no one's fought the feminist fight harder than I - has anything to do with her being called a bitch. It's not about her genitalia - it's about her personality..

By that same token, I think Dick Cheney is a big bitch. Ditto Don Rumsfeld. Bitches, both of them ..........................

[Baby Snooks]

24. Leon versus Leona..

Leona Helmsley made a comment once that had she been Leon instead of Leona she not only would never have been indicted for tax evasion she never would have been called before the Van Cleef & Arpels grand jury that started it all.

Women cannot win in the corporate world. The reality of the successful woman is she is looked upon differently than the successful man is.

He is assertive. She is aggressive. He is exacting. She is a bitch. Whatever he is in a positive sense she is the opposite in a negative sense.

Harry Helmsley was indicted along with Leona Helmsley. But only she was prosecuted. The reason charges were dropped against Harry Helmsley was not because he was old and suffered from labile hypertension. The reason was he was the man. She was the woman.

She should have stayed in her place in the bedroom and stayed out of his place in the boardroom. Of course who put her there? Harry did.

And the more she made, and she turned a $1 billion empire into a reported $10 billion empire all by her little old self, the more people hated her.

Because she was a bitch or because she was smarter than most men?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

28. You chose just about the worst example imaginable -

that woman, regardless of her genitalia, was a terrible, nasty, hateful human being. Her whining about being persecuted because of her gender was laughable. Do you remember her case? Did you see what she had people doing, and lying about, and stealing?

She was a bitch because she was a rotten person who treated those around her like dirt.

And her husband was so damn sick when all that tax business came down, it was impossible to put him on trial. The law does have its human side, when the occasion calls for it.

She was no smarter than other people in her position. She was a tax cheat and a liar, and she got caught. Yes, she did a great job with what Harry had built, but she had great people working for her. She did not do it herself, and her choices, ultimately, brought everything down, so, really, how good was she?

In actuality, Leona Helmsley is nobody's poster girl for being unfairly called a bitch. Bad, bad choice. .....................

[Liquorice]

29. Leona was demonized terribly in the media. She was a

staunch democrat who supported unions and gave away millions of dollars to charities throughout her life. Maybe she was mean, but I've read several things through the years that seriously make me question those accusations. Martha Stewart is also a very wealthy woman who is called a mean 'bitch' and went to the same prison as Helmsley... She's also a democrat.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. Their political affiliations are not at issue here,

since I'm absolutely certain that there are awful people in both parties.

And their business acumen is without question. That has nothing to do with my assertions about bitches.

(If you want to know anything about the kind of person Helmsley was, read her will. It's quite revealing. The woman went out of her way to screw Harry's kid.)

All I've been addressing is that people can be called "bitches" for reasons unrelated to how competent or charitable they are. It's about their personalities.

Many men are great big bitches. I recommend you to Dick Cheney. Donald Rumsfeld. Paul Wolfowitz. Bitches all.............

[Liquorice]

31. You can't just decide that the term bitch can be

applied to men and therefore isn't sexist. Bitch is a term meant to put a woman down. It is sexist. You can call a man a bitch all you want--it doesn't change that fact. Just like the 'n' word is racist. You can't just decide to call white people that and make it magically not racist.

Leona and Martha Stewart have both been made into 'bitches' in the media BECAUSE they are women. I also venture to guess that their political affiliation DOES indeed have an affect on why there were demonized the way they were. Have you ever heard of an ultra-wealthy republican woman being treated the way Leona and Martha have? Leona was demonized during the Reagan years, and Martha during the Bush years. Coincidence?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

36. Jeez, you've really twisted what I wrote........

Or perhaps you just didn't understand a simple concept: that is, that the women cited so far - two out of three, that is - were called bitches because they behaved badly and because they were really terrible human beings.

If you'd get off your damn soapbox and read, you'd understand that.

Sometimes the cloud of righteousness makes people go blind and stupid ..................

[Baby Snooks]

37. People are never their press...

Leona Helmsley was one of the nicest people I ever met in my life. And not what the press made her out to be. I wouldn't have worked for her. She wouldn't have hired me. I would have lasted one minute and quit and no one ever beat Leona Helmsley to the punch and I would have. Just the same, well, as I said she was one of the nicest people I ever met in my life.

And she was not a tax cheat. A subsequent audit proved otherwise. They had actually overpaid their taxes for the years they had been indicted for, and she was convicted of, tax evasion and tax fraud by none other than Rudy Guiliani and that alone says all that needs to be said about why they were indicted and she was prosecuted. Easy targets. There also had never been an audit. The law requires it. A little detail not only Rudy Guiliani but the federal judge, who was George HW Bush's cousin, managed somehow to overlook. She had several secretaries in the offices in addition to her personal secretary. They had over 200 accountants both inside and outside. Mistakes happen. And just where does the bottle of White-Out say "do not use on official documents. Rudy Guiliani may prosecute you?" They paid over $150 million in state and federal taxes for the years involved. And yet everyone believed she conspired to avoid $1.2 million in federal taxes. The charges involving state income taxes were dropped. By a judge who saw through them and saw Rudy Giuliani. She wasn't guilty of anything. Everyone just wanted to believe she was.

Because, well, after all, she was a bitch. According to the tabloids. Interesting that she and Harry had gag orders slapped on them by this federal judge that prevented them from responding to the garbage the tabloids were printing. This federal judge who again was the first cousin of George HW Bush. Much if not all of it fed to the tabloids by by Rudy Giuliani. She wasn't tried in the courts. She was tried in the tabloids. The Queen of Mean. The Bitch. And that is really what she was convicted of. Being a bitch.

You want to talk about how corrupted our system is and how it was corrupted by the Bushes? Take a good look at what happened to Leona Helmsley. Along with others, including Marc Rich, she was just an easy target for a prosecutor named Rudy Guiliani who used them all to pave a nice little path to his becoming a political figure. Who might have become a national political figure had it not been for his right-hand man all those years, Bernard Kerik, having turned out to be connected to the Mafia which called the "law and order" platform of Rudy Guiliani into question. Quite a few had already called it into question. Because of Leona Helmsley.

If you're referring to her son, which I assume you are since Harry had no children of his own, there was more to the story than the daughter-in-law's story. Mimi was well taken care of despite her maligning Leona. Jay was her only child. She never got over his death. Or how her daughter-in-law attempted to turn her grandchildren against her. Yes, they were evicted. No, they were not put out on the streets. Yes, she hated Mimi. No, she didn't hate her grandchildren. Two of them finally reached out to her in the end. Two didn't.

As for the will, it just reflected the final days of being alone and being shunned in a city she had done so much for. It was, really, her way of slapping everyone back. I would have done the same. She was left alone with Trouble. So it all went to Trouble and his friends. Our dogs and our cats. And maybe they will appreciate her more than we did.

The will also reflected that in the end, she was a "little people" too. She never said that. And wouldn't have. She could have left her brother and her grandchildren all of it. She wanted what she built, and she built it far more than Harry did, to be a permanent legacy for a man she absolutely adored. She left them enough to be comfortable and taken care of. Nothing more. The two granchildren who were disinherited were disinherited because they disrespected her generosity and she was very generous to them while she was alive. And there were codicils and loopholes that allowed her brother to "settle" with them. The will was a statement. They got the message. No one else apparently has. Her brother was aware of what she was going to do. So the claims of incompetency will not garner anything for the hosptials and other charities who of course want the rest of the Helmsley money.

They should have respected where it came from. They didn't. Harry Helmsley was not exactly a philanthropist before he married Leona. She was the one who picked up the checkbook. And kept picking it up.

She probably gave away a billion or two through the years. Most of it without fanfare, without acknowledgement. A $25,000 check here, a $25 millon check there. A lot of it long before the mess began.

And 9/11. That afternoon a woman showed up at one of the fire stations in Manhattan. Just walked in and told them she had a check for them. Leona Helmsley. She could have sent her secretary or her chauffeur to the fire station the afternoon of 9/11 but she also wanted to be sure they notified the city officials that her hotels were open to anyone who needed a meal or a bed. On the house as they say. So she walked down with the chauffeur and shocked them all. She had a $5 million check in hand for them. Much more followed. To all the funds. I've heard as much as $50 million.

But that day. Ask a New York fireman who remembers that day about Leona Helmsley. Few firemen in New York will use the word bitch. Not for the lady, and she was definitely a lady that afternoon, who walked in that afternoon. It wasn't the check so much as her opening up the hotels.

I guess she could have called the mayor but then the mayor was Rudy Guiliani. Maybe she did. And maybe he was still cowering in the bunker.

I certainly will never use the word bitch for the lady, and she was a lady that afternoon as well, who walked up to me in the lobby of the Palace and asked me if I needed something while I waited for someone and had someone bring me some coffee. Not knowing who I was waiting for. Wanting to know but not asking. And winking at me when she saw who it was. I will never forget that moment and no matter what anyone says about her, well, she was just one of the nicest people I ever met in my entire life.

I told someone once that she had a heart of cold at the office and a heart of gold at home. That probably applies to Anna Wintour as well as most if not all successful women.

Leona Helmsley is the perfect example of how a successful woman becomes a bitch. Of how success breeds contempt. Particularly of women. And particularly by women. Always a little envy at work.

[bumblebee1]

42. Maybe in the case of Leona Helmsley,

it was a little of both.

[Cetacea]

13. Any friend of Roger and Mirka Federer can't be too bad.

And she is probably very happy that he beat Nadal in Madrid today.

[mitchum]

14. Was she wearing that stupid wig and sunglasses?

I've always been amazed that such a homely beast wielded so much power in an industry built on appearance

[Graybeard]

15. She called her sunglasses "armor".

That was really strange because I had just commented that she peered out from behind that severe hair-do (wig?) as if she were in an armor helmet.

[Muttocracy]

16. I found the stuff about her sunglasses interesting - also when she did and didn't make eye contact

during the interview, e.g., when talking about her father.

She actually has quite expressive eyes.

[EndersDame]

18. Maybe she is a Bitch side to her that her colleagues know

or people who have dealt with her that she kept out of the interview. Seriously tough Bitch describes a particular group of women not all. As a woman I do not find it sexist if it describing truly bitchy women.I have been called a bitch when standing up for myself which I think is fucked up but I still use it when describing some women (for example my overly bossy and demanding coworker who is also very lazy)

[Captain Hilts]

34. What's the male version of 'bitch'? nt

[Tangerine LaBamba]

40. "Bitch"

I use it without gender-specificity. I've found just as many male bitches as female.

People get stuck on the word, forgetting that it can work any way you want it to work...............

[Jane Austin]

19. Oh, I know plenty of bitches. Mostly blondes and redheads.

In fact, I LIVE in the same house with seven of them.

And every one of them wants to sleep with me, even though I am perfectly happy with Mr. Austin, and even though I call them bitches all the time.

Some are spayed and some are intact. But I love, love, love every single one of my Golden Retriever bitches. :)

[Baby Snooks]

39. And I bet they all remember Leona fondly...

Once the money starts rolling there probably will be quite a few dogs and cats quite happy that she remembered them. And they will remember her. Quite fondly.

[Touchdown]

20. I don't know. Those attributes describe Steve Jobs too...

and half the people who have worked at Apple over the last 30 years think he's an asshole.:shrug:

[Muttocracy]

23. good comparison. nt

[Captain Hilts]

35. Admiral Rickover, Gen. MacArthur, Gen. Montgomery, Adm. King were very tough

to work for and are widely admired for it.

[snot]

21. YES.

[mykpart]

22. I didn't even know Vogue was still being published.

And I don't like it when 60 Minutes does "fluff" pieces. Who cares? How many DUers read Vogue?

[smalll]

25. Look, I imagine even Nuclear Wintour can come across semi-non-bitchy when being INTERVIEWED ---

for 60 MINUTES.

I still wouldn't want to be her go-to person for soymilk organic cappuccinos (or whatever it is she drinks.)

I'm willing to accept the idea that the people who serve/work for Anna might feel the B-word to be totally appropriate.

[Baby Snooks]

27. It probably is...

It was totally appropriate with Leona Helmsley who actually admitted she was a bitch. At least a bitch to work for.

And, well, if you couldn't stand the heat, you needed to get out of her kitchen. Before she tossed you out. Quite a few were tossed out. Along with lettuce leaves that she never slapped anyone with. They were just tossed out along with the employee who thought her guests wouldn't notice. She didn't want to just run hotels. She wanted to run the very best hotels. And she didn't want people around her who didn't.

Interesting thing is you never had a guest complain about her. The guests all loved her. And her hotels.

People are never their press. An old saying. Applied to Leona Helmsley. Applies to Anna Wintour.

[Hannah Bell]

32. "the very best hotels" don't have to treat employees like shit.

she wanted to make money. she married three rich guys.

this kind of bitch:

"On March 31, 1982, Leona's only child, Jay Panzirer, died of a heart attack. Leona sued her son's estate for money and property that she claimed he had borrowed. Mimi, her son's widow who lived in a property Leona owned, received an eviction notice. Mimi later said the legal expenses wiped her out and 'to this day I don't know why they did it.'"

"The slightest mistake was usually grounds for firing, and Helmsley was known to shout insults and obscenities at targeted employees just before they were terminated."

painting her as a feminist icon, or someone who got a raw deal because she was female is ludicrous. There are plenty of female execs & business owners who don't get labeled as bitches - because they don't treat their people like dirt.

and not all male execs do, either.

[Baby Snooks]

38. The reality...

Her two previous husbands left her "high and dry" and she went to work for a broker at one point who sponsored her and she would go home at night and type 100 letters to prospective clients and worked like a proverbial dog to become not only a successful broker in Manhattan but one of the most successful. So successful that some who resented her, emphasis on the her, filed ethics charges against her with the state claiming she engaged in fraud. At that point she could have cared less. She was a very wealthy woman. And she was a very wealthy woman when she married Harry Helmsley. But people believe what they want to believe.

And people want to believe she was a bitch. And a whore. She was neither.

The reality of the "borrowed" money was it was "stolen" money according to some and that was what was really behind the lawsuit. It was the only way she could cover for her son. And for her daughter-in-law.

Do overlook the "they" in Mimi's recollection. It was not Leona. It was Harry and Leona. Mimi could have saved a lot of money by just moving and dropping it. She was the one who turned it into what it became.

Leona made her first fortune for Jay. Who she adored. She wanted him to have something. She didn't want him to end up typing 100 letters every night. Wondering how he was going to pay the rent the coming month.

Leona made her second fortune for Harry. Who she adored. She wanted him to have the best. And she gave it to him.

And let's not forget Leona at one point tried to kill Harry in Palm Beach. Stabbed him in the arm. In reality Harry learned not to "engage" Leona in the kitchen. They "engaged" quite often. He certainly learned not to lunge at her when she was standing at a cutting board.

So many stories. None of them true.

All the employees who were fired were fired. Not everyone was. The main reason why employees were fired was simply that they assumed they knew better than Leona. They didn't.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

41. In your massive defense

of someone you admit you did not know personally - your anecdotes, save for her asking you if you wanted anything as you waited, which was very nice, but simply a part of doing business, not at all a personal exchange, could be gleaned from any gossip rag, NY Post, or Rush & Molloy - you overlooked a stark reality about Mrs. H.

She died alone and bitter.

Not exactly what happens to nice people, is it?

[cboy4]

43. She may be a nightmare of a boss for all you know.

I'll leave the adjectives, good or bad, to those who know and work with her.

You cannot make a determination by watching a 15 minute piece on 60 Minutes.

One of my former bosses was a total prick, but he fooled everyone else away from the office.