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62 percent of white evangelical Protestants believe the use of torture often or sometimes justified

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 03:53 PM
Original message
62 percent of white evangelical Protestants believe the use of torture often or sometimes justified
http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4052&Itemid=9

Opinion: A Christian's lament over the Pew torture poll
By David Gushee
Tuesday, May 05, 2009

(ABP) -- Dear Jesus,

Everyone seems to be talking about the poll put out last week by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. They found that 62 percent of white evangelical Protestants believe “the use of torture against suspected terrorists to gain important information” to be often or sometimes justified. Only 16 percent of this group -- a community that by self-definition is very, very serious about following you -- believes torture is never justified. That number was lower than any other group polled.

I think that what really got people’s attention with this poll, Lord, is that both evangelical identity and church attendance were positively correlated with support for torture. Thirteen percent more evangelicals said torture was often or sometimes justified than in the general population. In other words: The more often people go to church, the more they support torture. So those of your followers who go to church every week support torture at 54 percent, while those who seldom or never go support it at 42 percent.

These results have bounced around the country all week, reinforcing the opinion here that Christianity -- the faith that purports to be related to loyalty to you, Jesus -- leads people to support torture. It would be easy for casual news-watchers to conclude that if you want to end torture in this country, the best thing to do would be to empty out the churches. What a negation of the Great Commission (Matt. 28:16-20)! We could call it the Great De-Commissioning!

But, Jesus, can it be that the problem is that the churches are already empty? Can it be that the institution that you founded to advance your mission in the world is already empty of any understanding of what it might really mean to follow you? Is it already empty of people who take your teachings and example so seriously that they might have the capacity to resist seductive and dangerous ideas floating around our culture -- like the idea that if torture “works” to “protect national security,” and thus is something that followers of Jesus Christ ought to support as good loyal Americans?

Is your church already empty of courageous leaders who are willing to lose their jobs in order to say a resounding NO to a heretical idea like that? Is it already empty of people who understand that if you are a Christian, you cannot serve two masters, like, for example, Jesus and National Security? Is it already empty of people who understand that because all human beings are made in your image, there are some things that we just can’t do to anyone, no matter who they are?

What is this thing called “Christianity” in this country, Lord Jesus? Does it have anything to do with you? It seems a strangely Americanized thing, a disastrously domesticated faith toward which people can nod their heads in loyalty as long as it doesn’t conflict with their full participation in whatever this country feels like it wants to do. snip

Any church -- congregation, parachurch organization, denomination, or group of individual Christians -- that supports torture has violated its confessed allegiance to you and can no longer be considered part of your true church. Let them be anathema.

Jesus, I pray with all my heart for the survival of a remnant of faithful Christianity in this country. It goes far beyond torture. It has to do with whether we are really your people or are liars and hypocrites, just deluding ourselves on the way to Judgment Day.

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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. What do you expect from people who fetishize a man nailed to wood?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. They fetishize a dead, tortured Jew on a stick. n/t
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. One person you'd never find in a white evangelical Protestant church
is Jesus Christ.

He'd avoid those people like the plague they are.
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PM Martin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. True.
Are these "men" mostly from the south?
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Gentleman States The Case Well, Sir
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. their 'christianity' has been twisted beyond recognition.
torture :: jesus.

duh?

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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. /nt
Edited on Fri May-15-09 04:45 PM by readmoreoften
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 05:29 PM
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8. Deleted message
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Hippocrates?
I doubt if he would be supportive of torture either.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Deleted message
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. "The religion issue" is what the OP is ABOUT!!!
DUH!!! Get a fucking clue. Or better yet go back to wherever you came from (and I can make a reasonably educated guess where that is).
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. So tell me.
Edited on Fri May-15-09 06:40 PM by juno jones
Who Would Jesus Torture?


Too bad all those protestants don't seem to know the Christ of Matthew 5.5. You know all that 'judge not, pray in private not like the hypocrites who pray in public, blessed are the meek' kinda stuff.

Edit to add: Oh yeah, let's not forget 'Eye of a needle and camel insertion pertaining to rich men'. A double helping please because we obviously aren't getting it.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I don't know surgery in those days was pretty near torture.
;)
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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Right over their head that one went... n/t
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. "Bad guys" deserve what they get.. It's what decades of movies has ":taught" us as a society
It's why we have perp-walks and why the media always demonizes people when they are indicted, charged, arrested, whatever.

If these people are foreign-looking, speak with an accent or are "not like us", it's even "better".. We have always fostered distrust of "the other"..

Group-think aligns on the side of "law & order"..at any cost to the individual...and it's why we end up with innocent people tossed into jail. The perception of their guilt can and often does outweigh the evidence.

We , as a group, do not believe that "the other" has any rights.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Should be closer to 100 percent
Edited on Fri May-15-09 06:42 PM by GreenArrow
considering the belief in a literal Hell where souls are punished -- i.e. tortured -- for the sins they committed while on Earth. What is Hell after all but eternal torture?
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. The question isn't whether it is ever justified, but whether it should ever be legal.

I think it's basically the same situation as the death penalty - I'm not convinced that there are not circumstances in which it is justified, but the state should forbid it even then, because otherwise it will be used on innocent people too.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. Torture didn't work on Jesus.
what are they thinking?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. Apparently God's love comes in the form of electrodes on your balls.
Who knew?
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. Their very bloody religion is entirely based on death and suffering.
It is their highest value. What other result would you expect? I expect an orientation toward death, pain and misery from evangelical Christians, and that's what I see. (Remember that awful Jesus movie filled with suffering and torture that they all loved? I rest my case.)
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Ah yes...The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre
Otherwise known as The Passion of the Christ.
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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
22. most naive people in the world. thinking that prayer and waterboarding will
change the law of human nature.
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