Sadly, the right has won the torture debate.

[edhopper]

With the willful compliance of the MSM, who after all only wants a "he said, she said" story, the debate on torture is no longer about the use of an illegal, immoral act. But rather about the inane arguments of; "Isn't it worth it if it work?" and "What about a ticking bomb?" And it's no longer about the monsters in office who instigated it's use, but about "Well a Dem knew about it."
This will be the MSM debate from now on, the right has seen to it that it will not gain traction and no one will be held accountable.
It is truly sad.

[tridim]

1. Not even close to correct.

The debate isn't over by a long shot.

And then there's the legal part that hasn't even begun yet.

Don't give up and let the Torture Party win.

[edhopper]

4. I wish that were true

but day by day I see it going that way.
The fact that I see much, much more coverage of the "What did Pelosi know" story, than the fact that the use of torture was to get a false confession about Al Qaida and Iraq, tells me I'm probably right.

[tridim]

10. The "coverage" is not the reality of what's actually happening.

The coverage is what the Republicans want you to believe is reality.

It's your choice if you want to believe it.

[edhopper]

13. That's my point

they have been able to swing the coverage and therefore sway public opinion to their point of view.
It's not what I believe, I'm making an observation about the media coverage.
And if you think that doesn't matter, I would suggest you look at the coverage of the lead up to the Iraq War.

[tsuki]

41. Time is on our side. Have you seen some of the movies coming

out of Germany lately? Downfall and The Counterfeiters come to mind.

[GreenArrow]

43. it might be more germane to look at some of the

movies coming out of Hollywood lately. Inglorious Bastards comes to mind.

[lordsummerisle]

2. It's very sad

just another example of how the Right can re-frame an issue and the MSM will run with it...

[tridim]

3. So you've given up too huh?

:eyes:

[edhopper]

6. Given up on what.

I'm not saying that the Democrats should stop. I'm saying the Right and the GOP is winning the media war on this. It's a statement on reality.

[tridim]

9. The OP said the GOP has "won" the debate. Past tense.

[barbtries]

5. it is not over.

not by a long shot.

[Tesha]

21. It's over. With the C-I-C now backing Bush's "Military Commisions", it's clear that

nothing will be done about a whole lot of Bush
policies including torture. That horse left the barn
two years ago, and Pelosi, Reid, and company
were too busy playing along with the Bushies to
do anything about it.

Tesha

[edhopper]

23. I'm sure she's happy right now

she took impeachment off the table
:sarcasm:

[lamp_shade]

7. Tighten your seat belt, baby... it's far from over.

[edhopper]

8. I hope not.

But do you have any evidence that the debate is not being framed this way in the media?

[LSK]

11. we are in the 2nd inning, this thing has barely come out

We are just beginning to learn that they used torture ONLY to try to link Saddam to 9/11 and Al Queda.

They never used torture in this ticking time bomb scenario, they used it to get false confessions.

[emulatorloo]

12. Not yet. Seems to me Cheney/GOP/CIA are getting desperate. They are on the wrong side of this

and they know it.

They are spinning like crazy and making the wildest incomprehensible arguments. As the days go by it is going to get more and more transparent.

[edhopper]

14. And yet

the media seems to be following their lead.
I'm not talking about the reality here, I'm talking about how the media is covering it.
As i said in an early post, remember the coverage before the Iraq War. They won the debate on that one too.

[BeFree]

22. Media

Is trying to cover its ass, meanwhile they have lost a ton of money since they lied about the Iraqi invasion. There is a correlation.

Maybe you need to turn off your TV?

Yesterday, Obama called the media on its coverage of financial matters so you can figure he sees what they are doing now with torture. Obama knows the pics will come out one way or another, so why take the heat from the republimedia that would play cheney's puppet claiming he injured the troops?

[edhopper]

25. Read my OP

I'm not even talking about the pics. It's the debate around the whole issue of torture.

[BeFree]

30. Huh?

I read it, it said they won. You're wrong. The debate in the media is slanted toward cheney, duh. But it ain't over yet. The pictures will be a tsunami.

Obama is fighting in ways you won't know about til it's over and done.

Have some peace.

[edhopper]

32. Yeah

I heard that about nationalizing the banks, supporting gay marriage, FISA etc..
still waiting

[BeFree]

38. Well

If you f'n hate Obama maybe freeperville is a better place for you?

Look, we all got problems with greatly altering the train going down the tracks but your ideas are way out of line, what with this crap about that they won the debate. F that. I'm not buying your crap.

[TheWraith]

15. Uh, no. That's not the case. nt

[edhopper]

16. What's that a response too??

[MzNov]

17. The Right hasn't won anything.

and evil will NEVER prevail, no matter how long it takes.

[edhopper]

18. I would like to see that.

But I don't see evidence in the MSM that they haven't become just a outlet for Right wing talking points on this.

[MzNov]

36. sigh. we'll probably be dealing with this for many years to come.

something has got to give, besides our exploding heads. :-)

[Stinky The Clown]

19. It **ought** to be criminal!

[Mari333]

20. Well, the Right sure is happy the Photos arent being released

and if they arent that will help their case.

[Swamp Rat]

24. Horse puckey!

[edhopper]

27. Well reasoned.

How could I argue with that?

[Swamp Rat]

40. I do not abide defeatism.

Now, THINK POSITIVE! We WILL beat these bastards! ;)

[SalviaBlue]

26. This is far from over. Pace yourselves.

[edhopper]

29. I don't think the issue of torture is over

I think the debate in the press is, and they won it.
Making it harder for the people who care to do something and hold those accountable.

[SalviaBlue]

39. We often have to push the press to places they don't want to go.

This isn't going away as much as Corp Media wants it to.

Even though people still pay attention to Corp Media, there are too many of us who know how to delve further into an issue for the truth. I believe there are too many of us who are informing ourselves for their lies to work anymore.

Kinda like: fool me once shame on you.... can't get fool again.

[derby378]

28. With all due respect: BULLSHIT

We're just getting warmed up. And if our reps won't hold the Bushistas accountable, we'll replace them with Democrats who will.

[immoderate]

31. No. I think they are digging a big hole.

By trying to implicate Pelosi, they are forcing more debate. They should have left it alone.
They cannot survive scrutiny!

--imm

[edhopper]

34. Yeah

like those Wall Street Bankers and CEOs. They couldn't survive the scrutiny either....oh, wait!

[immoderate]

44. Well, they don't come up for election.

We may not be done with Wall Street, CEOs either. Just hopin'.

--imm

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[Quantess]

35. No, it's not over yet...

Maybe there never will be prosuctions, maybe you are right. But, the discussion is not over yet.

[edhopper]

37. Not over

but in the MSM it will always be around "What Pelosi knew" and "The ticking bomb bullshit". They have framed the debate.

[GreenArrow]

42. Once it was allowed to become a debate it was lost

It should never have been a debate to begin with, and that it became one is largely a product of moral/political cowardice on the parts of the Dems who knew about it and said nothing. Some moral outrage and the consequences be damned would have been appropriate, but sadly, none was forthcoming.


And for whatever it's worth, it's no longer torture, it's "enhanced interrogation techniques".

[Senator]

45. K&R

[Puzzler]

46. Yep... it seems that the whole debate has morphed into...

... "Pelosi-gate".