EXCUSE ME...But Where Is The Dem Support For Nancy?

[Me.]

Newt just came out and called her a liar. I've had my differences with her in the past, the impeachment is off the table thing for starters, but since when do we allow the Cons to impale one of our own and aside from Bob Graham, no one says anything? Correct me if I'm wrong but Nancy didn't torture anyone but she's the one being treated like a criminal.

[polichick]

1. Well, the president is doing commencement speeches at colleges that have dissed him...

I wish he cared as much for those who support him than those who despise him ~ Cheney wouldn't be winning this battle.

[ohheckyeah]

2. The accusations against

Nancy Pelosi are nothing but a Republican attempt to divert criticism and responsibility from the already drowning Republican Party.

If Nancy knew and lied about it, shame on her, but there isn't a damn thing she could have done that would have stopped it. If she had gone public they would have called her a liar then just as they are now.

This is all Republican theater at it's worst.

[Me.]

12. I Understand The Con Strategy

They're masters at distracting the eye and once again they're succeeding. But only if the dems let them get away with it. The dems should be out there giving her back-up. Until anyone can prove she lied it's still they said/ she said. And while yes, shame on her if she lied, a lie is a long way off from water boarding someone. And let's not forget the lie of the ex-president when he said we do not torture. How about a dem bringing that up?

[ohheckyeah]

13. Truly.

The Republicans OWN the illegal torture.

[Aslanspal]

3. Nancy did not do good quality control CYA

It has the appearance of complicity...the rethugs found a weak point...plus Nancy and her daughter were chummy with bush in the early 2000's.

I say she survives, and I agree with you it is time for a counter because the repugs are trying blackmail.

The way to change or frame the debate and get the heat off ..is the President coming out and saying.....you know what this is getting too nasty...i am going to apoint an independent commision to settle this once and for all ..they have a two year mandate and it will be somewhat in secret so i can get some work done!

[Robbien]

4. DC Dems don't pay attention to us

so it doesn't matter if we support her or not.

[guyton]

5. Newt who?

The real question is why the blazes is the MSM even covering what that has-been idiot has to say.

[L. Coyote]

8. Is this a species of salamander?

[DJ13]

6. I wish our party would take this as an opportunity to get her to step down

We really need a stronger (wont cave to the GOP), more progressive person in her position.

But its looking like many Dems are falling in line to defend her out of a misplaced "our team, right or wrong" just because the Republicans are making noise about her.

If she stays in her Leadership position I hope those defending her now understand they are dooming future progressive legislation to more wishy washy watered down inaction by the House in the years to come.

[roguevalley]

29. it's ironic to me that if she had impeached everyone, this might not

be her fate.

[L. Coyote]

7. We are letting the Rs hang themselves on this one!

Anyone who thinks Bush lied to everyone except Pelosi is a frikkin' idiot!!

So, the Rs are just painting themselves as the frikkin' idiots they are, and the People know it.
Not to mention, they are admitting Bush tortured! Let them tie their own hanging noose!

[David Zephyr]

9. Nancy Pelosi is holding back the gates of hell in the House. She needs our support.

Those who nitpick at her do it at the peril of all of us.

I stand with Pelosi.

[Aslanspal]

21. I think at the end of the day we must stand with her.....

this news cycle must end and end quickly...we need a counter.
Everyone listen the republicans found a weak point and now it is partisan they are trying blackmail.

I would like to see the President step in and say...hey! this is getting too nasty we need to appoint an independent counsel...I think he is sincerely trying to solve other issues and is pleased by what Pakistan is doing...as for the C.I.A. ..Obama had to go over there and hold their hand..now Pannetta has to buck them up...what is the deal over there ..is their a small cabal going on ..the cheney left behind spies stirring it up...then clean house a little bit and keep the ones that want to get to work.

[Me.]

24. Welcome

:hi:

[David Zephyr]

55. If we don't stand with her, we are fools.

You are right.

Nancy Pelosi is no idiot. She wouldn't say that the CIA lied to her if she couldn't prove it.

The GOP, as always, went too far off on their limb with their CIA plants, and have now given her all the rationale needed to open up hearing, bring them all in under oath, and expose the truth to the American People.

Not good for the GOP.

[Atman]

10. It's OFF THE TABLE

Sorry...she put herself in this position. Whether or not she's telling the truth is almost irrelevant now. She burned bridges, spent a lot of political capitol/goodwill. She's paying the price for being a poor leader.

.

[polichick]

11. Yep and if Obama takes prosecution off the table, he's done too.

[Justitia]

25. Yeah, better to teach HER a lesson than go after the War Criminals & Torturers

who are actually begging for it.

I can hear Dick Cheney on every channel yelling "What do you have to do to get arrested around here? Hello?"

But you go ahead and work on revenge scenarios for the Democratic Speaker of the House because she pissed you off.

What a clusterfuck.

[Atman]

56. Oh, yeah! That's exactly what I said! I'm don't want Cheney prosecuted.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. You see, all this time I was calling for Pelosi PROSECUTE, it was actually because I didn't want her to, and I was just working on revenge scenarios.

Cut the bullshit. I never said any such thing. Pelosi is still in charge and can STILL bring charges. Meanwhile, Cheney laughs in her face. He laughs in ALL of our faces. He knows nothing will happen to him because Pelosi promised it wouldn't. I'm not seeking "revenge" against her. I just don't see why I should bust my balls to help prop her up. SHE FAILED US. Just as Cheney and Bush failed America. She didn't "piss me off." She failed the country, she ignored the LAW.

But yeah...you seem to have it all summed up. You'd better turn on KO RIGHT NOW. Maybe someone will explain it to you.

:eyes:

.

[Marr]

69. I'm sorry- has Pelosi been shouting for a Special Prosecutor?

I've heard a lot of "move forward, leave the past behind us" nonsense, but that's about it. If you want to protect criminals, you're going to be splattered with their messes.

She's been a failure in her position and I don't see why anyone should support her. We'd be better off replacing her anyway.

[Raine]

68. "Cut your nose off to spite your face"

yeah just go ahead and do that, real smart. :sarcasm:

[ThomCat]

14. She is getting exactly as much support as she gave to our base.

Where has her support for the Democratic Base been when our base was mobilized in the LARGEST ANTI-WAR RALLIES THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN? She ignored all of that and instead fully supported two wars, without any proof of justification for the wars, with unrestrained funding for the wars, and no time-lines or exit strategies for ending the wars.

Where has her support been when our base has been screaming for nationalized health care for years, and she let the party cave in on the donut hole in Medicaid part D? Or when she let the party cave in on negotiating prices for meds on Medicaid prescription drug plans?

Where has her support been when "bankrupsy reform" was pushed through and made it HARDER for people in trouble to declare bankrupsy? Look at the disaster that is causing now?

Where has her support been when over and over and over again when we spoke up with very clear desires about what we wanted and needed, but she couldn't be bothered to fight for any of it?

If she was willing to organize the party to actually fight for something, anything, and fight hard for what our base believes in then our base would go to the wall for her. But she likes to start with the lobbyists proposal on every issue and then begin compromising immediately.

[polichick]

16. Hope Obama learns from this - so far he seems to be going down the same path.

[Me.]

17. You Make Excellent Points

My frustration with her in the past has been unlimited. However, the Cons have a lot of damn nerve, after Cheney has as good as admitted torture, raising a stink about this. And where are the DC dems? Isn't it time we fought back against this type of ginned up outrage?

[EFerrari]

20. Exactly. She took herself off the table.

How many posters to DU started out as her supporters? It's sad, really.

[Me.]

23. The Thing Is

This isn't just about Nancy. The Cons are once again causing a ruckus to take the focus off them. They need to be called on their games once and for all.

[EFerrari]

27. Yes, it's a big distraction in their usual vein. But you did ask, Me.

:)

The Democrats have about 80 minutes to respond. I hope someone does!

[Justitia]

28. So, it's payback for Nancy and the REAL War Criminals & Torturers roam free.

Jesus Christ, now the rest of the world knows how the USA ignores torture right under it's nose.

It all gets lost in the grudge match.

[ThomCat]

34. She's not helping to get the war criminals and torturers in front of

a judge. :(

Maybe if we can get rid of her the next speaker will actually do the job and represent us, the base, the voters, within the party's agenda.

Keeping her just because she has a D after her name doesn't necessarily help us.

If she's not willing to help us prosecute torture, then getting her out of office isn't preventing it from happening. It isn't a grudge match that's somehow getting in the way. It's an effort to get our politicians to do what they're supposed to be doing.

However, with all of that said, I would love it if she would represent us and we could keep her. She is historic as the first woman in that position. If she was not only the first woman Speaker but also a good speaker, and a ground-breaking leader we would all win on many fronts.

[Justitia]

37. Like a dog w/a bone. People are falling all over themselves confessing to torture today,

I could give a shit what Nancy Pelosi knew.

The actual criminals who committed the actual crimes are actually begging for someone to arrest them and everyone around here is busy settling some score with their fellow Democrats.

Great day to be a War Criminal.

[FLAprogressive]

31. that sums it up.

[Lorien]

43. Yep. What goes around comes around.

If she had done what she had been hired to do we would all back her 100%. As it is...well, karma's a bitch!

[Justitia]

46. Wow. Just wow. The CIA appreciates your indifference. -eom

[Warren DeMontague]

81. Oh, for fuck's sake. She "fully supported two wars"? Did she vote for the IWR? Did she support

invading Iraq? NO. Has she argued against Iraq consistently for the past 6 years? YES.

I realize it's de rigueur in some circles here to loathe Nancy Pelosi, presumably for not destroying our congressional majority with a fight over impeachment of Bushco.... okay, so you hate her--- okay, you wish Dennis Kucinich (or Ralph Nader) was the Speaker of the House, fine... but given all she HAS accomplished she at least deserves the truth about her record--- and not this revisionist history disinformation bullshit.

Nancy Pelosi did NOT 'fully support two wars', that is an out and out LIE, she has been strongly and clearly opposed to the Iraq War from the beginning.

Jesus fucking Christ.

[populistdriven]

85. what was it she said about the war protestors outside her home?

she made some pretty disparaging remarks

/edit - found it http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg122332.html

[ThomWV]

15. She lost any sort of support she might have got from me with her "off the table" comment

The Democratic Party is full of people who would make a good speaker - she's nothing special to me and to be honest about it every time she speaks she looks like a child telling a very big lie. I have never seen an adult stammer so badly when asked questions as her in these past few days.

[bigwillq]

18. She lost my support a long time ago.

:mad:

[unblock]

19. see the thread "Rep. John Larson (D-CT): Pelosi has “more integrity in her pinky” than Rove, Cheney"

interesting to see this thread and that one right next to each other on the greatest page!

"Rep. John Larson (D-CT): Pelosi has “more integrity in her pinky” than Rove, Cheney"



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5662343

[EFerrari]

22. That's not aiming very high, is it.

[Subdivisions]

26. She's no leader. Sorry. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

30. I'm with you. I see it the very same damned way.

Some days my party just disgusts me.

This is one of those days.

[EFerrari]

32. Has anyone been out on the cable channels? I just flipped to CNN

[Stinky The Clown]

70. The only person even close to helping is Bob Graham

This is beyond disgusting.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[bvar22]

35. If I were a Wall Street Banker, I would be supporting her.

NOW we have Your Children’s Money too !!!
And there is not a fucking thing you can do about it!
Now THIS is “Post-Partisanship” !
Better get used to it!!
Hahahahahahahahaha!



In 2006, Pelosi parlayed her Congressional Seat into a Seat at the Rich Man's Table.
She has never looked back.
Lie down with dogs.....

[Captain Hilts]

36. They're supporting her the way they 'supported' Gore - poorly.You folks are all wrapped up in stupid

[Justitia]

38. Amen. -eom

[ThomCat]

39. You cannot compare Pelosi to Gore. Gore stands up for

what he believes. He has strong principles. He fights for them and defends them.

If someone like Gore was speaker I'd be going to wall with my support. I supported Gore through all the bullshit too. I'm sure a lot of other people here feel the same way.

[Justitia]

40. Should we get Al to call you to interest you in the actual War Crimes happening around you?

I'd hate to distract you from your personal grudge match w/Speaker Pelosi.

I'm surrounded by petulant teenagers.

[ThomCat]

41. I'm posting far more about the actual war crimes that you are.

Some of us can talk about multiple subjects at once on different threads. :eyes:

Expecting a speaker of the house to represent her party isn't being petulant. It's called accountability. That's supposedly one of the core principles of our party.

Expecting automatic loyalty simply because someone is on the same team isn't intelligent when that person has a long, long history of being disloyal to all of us. That's just rewarding her instead of holding her accountable.

Nice personal attack though. You're the one that looks like a petulant teenager.

Do you have some Reasons why we should be going to the wall for Pelosi other than just because she's on our team? Does she represent us? Does she stand up for us? Does she advance our causes and advance our party? Feel free to defend her with an intelligent argument.

[Justitia]

44. Yeah, right. You have a rabid interest in payback for Pelosi to the point of ignoring the REAL War

Criminals & Torturers.

All you can see is whatever angle of revenge over your disagreement with Nancy Pelosi.

Bread & Circuses.

[Lorien]

48. Um, the people expressing their disappointment with Pelosi ARE the ones

fighting to bring the war criminals to justice. Why are you attempting to suggest otherwise?

[Justitia]

51. Maybe it's because of posts like "Karma's a bitch"???? -eom

[GreenArrow]

78. projection?

.

[ThomCat]

50. I'd love to see how you defend that delusion.

I've been in the anti-war marches here in NYC. I've been vocal since the beginning about preventing the wars and then ending them.

You're just making shit up at this point so you can throw insults. Grow up. If you have nothing intelligent to say, don't say anything.

[Justitia]

52. Really? You seem much more interested in "payback for Pelosi" than any REAL war crimes.

According to your posts.

[Marr]

72. That would make sense if Nancy Pelosi were on our side in that fight.

She wants to "move forward" and not "look to the past". If you're actually interested in dealing with the people responsible for war crimes, you should be happy to hear that this roadblock called Pelosi is in a tight spot.

[Lorien]

45. Amen! nt

[rucky]

42. I support her call for an investigation.

[RagAss]

47. You reap what you sow.................nm

[ProgressiveProfessor]

49. Its wasn't just the newt, but Pannetta, a major Democrat, who is the new DCI

And that would not have happened without WH concurrence.

[cornermouse]

53. Same place it's always been.

Some democrats are well liked on DU. (Example: Rahm Emanuel and the other centrists)

Other democrats are targets for attack on sight. (Example: Hillary, Bill, and Chelsea were hated and despised on DU during the primary. Edwards and anyone who indicates their belief that Obama is making major policy mistakes)

[noamnety]

54. I have other priorities

besides speaking out in support of an elected official who was aware that war crimes were being committed by our government, and with that knowledge decided to vote to continue funding those war crimes.

But hey, if that's a high priority in your life, knock yourself out.

[WeDidIt]

57. She didn;t support me, so I have no inclination to support her

She took impeachment off the table.

I've taken supprting her in her stupid move off the table.

It's a wash.

[Paladin]

58. I Guess About The Twentieth Time She And Reid Rolled Over....

...and spread their cheeks for whatever the hell George W. Bush and Dick Cheney wanted, my support for her began to wane.....

[spanone]

59. i've been watching and waiting, i've seen little talk from dems..did cheney wiretap everyone of them

:shrug:

[Me.]

60. Do You Have A Sense Of Deja Vu?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. They're "keeping their powder dry" for the Mistress of Dry Powder.

[Mike 03]

62. Okay, Okay, Uncle, and Kick and Rec, and all that....

I surrender.

But I think she is being lame.

But you win.

[Me.]

65. She Is Lame

And deserves the snark she is receiving on DU today, she's earned it. That said, we shouldn't let the thugs get away with trying to change the subject.

[bananas]

63. k&r nt

[Atticus]

64. Amen. Where IS our support for her?

Despite the simple-minded GOP-friendly twaddle being peddled on the MSM, there is not ONE IOTA of proof that Pelosi has lied. A careful reading of what she and Panetta have actually said shows that there is an apparent lack of clarity about EXACTLY what she was briefed about in September '02. At best, the CIA says she was told about "the enhanced interrogation techniques that had been used". Boner, Bond et al say this "proves" that she was told about waterboarding. This is horseshit, people!
As I've said in other posts, I am not a Nancy fan. The "impeachment is off the table" BS really ticked me off. But, I will stand with her during this shit storm of Republican lies and gross exaggerations. To do less is to assist the Bush regime criminals in their desperate attempt to change the focus of the growing concern about torture from the people who sponsored, lied about and actually performed it to Nancy, who allegedly failed to sound the alarm about it.
The Repubs want to "get to the bottom" of what Nancy knew, when she knew it, etc.? FINE! That can be part of what we task the Special Proscutor with looking into. I'm betting he finds bigger fish to fry than Madame Speaker.
Patrick Fitzgerald, your nation needs you again.

[opihimoimoi]

66. I been behind her..so have others....many others...including big wigs

In the end....Nancy will prevail and the PUBs will lose face

[Marr]

67. A real investigation of the Bush torture programs would solve this.

As it stands, I really don't see why she deserves my support.

[H2O Man]

71. The ball

is in her court. I have mixed feelings about her, and think that other democrats in Washington should be playing a role. The best thing they could do, in my opinion, is to call for the various branches of government -- including the intelligence agencies, which are indeed a branch -- to lay their cards on the table.

[Me.]

76. Concur Wholeheartedly

The mixed feelings that so many of us have may be muddying the waters of what is going on here and that may be the main objective.

[TexasObserver]

73. Pelosi is the worst Democratic Speaker in at least 50 years.

I don't know the degree to which she bears guilt on the torture issue, but I recall learning that she and Harman and Sen. Rockefeller all knew about torture at least 4-5 years ago. She's been a very weak Speaker, always accomplishing less than she should have.

She's been a huge disappointment, and I am not inclined to invest any time worrying about her political future.

[MadHound]

74. Where was Nancy's support for the base?

Oh, yeah, "off the table." Sorry, but first of all, I'm not certain that Nancy is telling the truth on this one, not the full truth. Secondly, it's pretty hard to support somebody who has spent the past eight years pissing all over you.

[questforfreedom]

75. well because a hypocrite is worse than someone who commits an act and is up front about it

Which is why Obama is worse than Bush, because at least Bush did not lie about "enhance interrogations" while these practices still continue under Obama, only he lying through his teeth

[Me.]

77. He Lied Big Time Throughout The 8 Years

Aside from his actions such as starting a war based on lies right on to standing in front of the cameras and saying "We do not torture"

[havocmom]

79. Here's a point to make often: What did the CIA tell Denny Hastert?

He had some power back then. Pelosi had her hands tied.

[omega minimo]

80. She made her bed

[TexasObserver]

82. She took power in January 2007, and immediately rolled over for Bush.

She had a majority in the HOUSE and could have driven a lot investigations, but she sat on them.

She has been weak and ineffective for the past two years as Speaker. We need a new speaker, and I don't really care what happens to the mediocre congresswoman from SF. A Democrat would take her place, and hopefully, they wouldn't be as cowardly. She's been compromised for years.

[Hekate]

83. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? I sometimes wonder if Democrats have a death-wish...

... or as the old saying has it, "They snatched defeat from the jaws of Victory."

It's stupid, stupid, stupid for so-called Democrats to (1) not stand up for each other when Cons attack and (2) repeat Con talking-points against fellow Dems. This has zilch to do with "holding their feet to the fire" and "not walking in lockstep" and everything to do with being continually distracted by the latest shiny piece of tinfoil.

Hekate
:argh:

[Me.]

87. Exactly

[Kickin_Donkey]

84. It's off the table. (nt)

[Hubert Flottz]

86. She needs to fight back...

She has the power to put bush and cheney on the hot seat...she needs to use it.

[Progressive dog]

88. Much lesser of 2 evils

Facts
EITs are torture.
The Bush-Cheney regime used the CIA, DoD, and even private contractors to torture.
Those who were involved in this torture are criminals under US law.
These people must be prosecuted.
The DoJ is the proper agency to collect evidence, bring indictments, and prosecute these people.
Nancy Pelosi does not control the DoJ, but she can bring pressure on them to do their job.
Nancy Pelosi has been accused of knowing something about these crimes by the very people who committed these crimes. Whether the CIA is now lying to protect their own makes no difference. Nancy is far from my favorite democrat, but at least we no longer have the lizard or the exterminator as Speaker.
Those of us who believe that the US is (or should be) a nation of law, have to continue to push for enforcement of the law and not let the actual torturers win.

[LWolf]

89. It's back there in the early months of '07,

still waiting for her to put impeachment on the table and work to end the war.