"So ... do you wish you had supported McCain?"

[Stinky The Clown]

That and the myriad variations on that theme seem to be the strawman du jour when people argue against those who are unhappy with some of what the President is doing and some of the directions he's setting of late.

Understand something. If people are unhappy - narrowly, on an issue or two, or broadly - with Obama, it is more likely they are rabidly anti-McCain/anti-Republican than not. The pressure is not for "anyone but Obama". The pressure is to move Obama to the **LEFT**. If he faces a challenge, it will be from the LEFT.

And let's look at who these lefties are.

0n health care, it includes people from all points of the spectrum of Democrats from the far left to a point well to the right of the center of the party.

On torture and all issues related to it, the spectrum probably goes further to the right than it does for health care.

On the economy, the spectrum is probably more narrowly on the left, but likely goes to at least the center.

On issue after issue, the majority who are voicing strong, **reasoned** opposition are to Obama's left, not his right.

So next time you wish to see yourself as being clever is knocking down a critic, at least try to have some credibility with respect to that with which you wish to accuse them.






The 'far left' is a non starter in this discussion, too. They are as irrelevant as are the far right.

[Turbineguy]

1. If McCain had been President

I would not have caught the swine flu.

Oh wait.... Never mind.

[RandomThoughts]

2. Well I am not sure who is far left, or far right.

But I can tell you this, people are not irrelevant, nobody is. The claim is only to make them give up.

I understand there are many mix and match positions. But the far left is viable, and more then you know. It might take a little longer, but you might just be surprised.

I don't understand the meaning of this post?
"So next time you wish to see yourself as being clever is knocking down a critic, at least try to have some credibility with respect to that with which you wish to accuse them."

which group is criticizing which group and who is making uncredible accusations?

[liberalmuse]

3. McCain would have put the world out of its misery by now.

I don't like those strawmen. "So...do you wish you had gotten AIDS instead of Herpes?"

[NJmaverick]

4. I think a better way to look at things is that Obama believes in compromise and respect for both

sides. There are many on the left that don't want compromise, believe in their own and their ideological belief's infallibilities and live in an ideal fantasy world that doesn't deal with real world realities, these tend to be Obama's harshest and most frequent critics.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. There is some of that, to be sure.

But that happens in anything. The right and far right have this same fight, only in mirror image.

I'm seeing people who are frustrated for not being heard. And not being heard often leads to hardened positions - or at least hardened rhetoric.

Just look at health care. Single payer is many people's gold standard. But if pressed, they would be thrilled with medicare for all - which really embodies both public and private payers, insurance companies, donut holes and all the other ills. but it would represent a way to **at least** insure the uninsured. Yes, single payer is, in most people's minds, far better, but Medicare for all would be a reasonable start.

When all that happens is single payer advocates get completely shut out of discussions, eve those who were ready to compromise harden.

And that's where we're headed.

And that's not good.

So .... are some positions hardened? Yeah, maybe. But that instantly begs the bigger question: Why?

[cali]

5. people who are opposed to virtually everything that Obama says or does

are broadly opposed to the system of which he's a part. And offhand, I can think of a good dozen regular posters who fit that description. And there's quite a bit of knee jerk stupid opposition here, just as there's quite a bit of knee jerk and stupid support. Deal with it.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. I suspect a good deal of what you encounter is .....

.... opposition to you.

[Lex]

10. I suspect you are correct

in that assessment.

[redqueen]

14. I suspect a good deal of what many of us encounter...

is stuff like that push-poll about Obama's "broken promises".

There's plenty of blame for this nonsense to go around.

[redqueen]

18. And this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5649910

[Javaman]

6. huh, if memory serve me right...

better still let the net refresh our memories, shall we?

McCain votes to kill anti-torture bill after making 'opposition to torture' one of his signature issues

http://www.americablog.com/2008/02/mccain-votes-to-kill-anti-torture-bill.html

[Stinky The Clown]

9. I'm not sure I understand the relevence of **anything** McCain sez

(btw .... your link didn't load for me.)

[Javaman]

16. Try again, it worked for me. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. That's OK - we're used to being irrelevant.

And that doesn't stop me from both supporting Obama and STILL trying to drag him to the left.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. If true, then you're not to whom this OP was addressed.

[old mark]

13. You would have to be seriously fucking crazy to want McCain/Palin

in office now. I can't even imagine the current crop of GOPer morans with another of their kind in command. We would be going down the drain for certain - they probably would have destroyed the nation forever by this time. Only redeeming feature would be ammo prices would be lower - the Democrats would be buying it all, not the really right militia crowd.

(I stocked up when Bush was in power and it was still relatively cheap.)

mark

[Stinky The Clown]

15. Of course you'd have to be fucking crazy to want McCain in .......

.... which simply supports the premise of the OP and makes those who toss out the accusation even more moronic than they already are.

[Libertyfirst]

17. No.