Too much experience could be hurting your IT job search

[ChromeFoundry]

Source: NetworkWorld

IT professionals with more than five years experience on the job could have a more difficult time finding work during the recession than those with less experience, according to research from online career resource Beyond.com.

The IT industry continues to see online job postings, but the problem is that more and more high-tech workers are actively looking, Beyond.com found in its Career Trend Analysis Report for the first quarter. Beyond.com compiles data from its network of more than 15,000 online communities.

Close to 60% of business professionals polled said they would "take any job they could if they found themselves unemployed." And the data revealed that there was a 54.5% increase in the number of IT professionals searching for a job vs. during the same period a year ago.

The IT industry made up 11.32% of online job postings in the first quarter, second only to healthcare and medical at 23.2%, according to Beyond.com, but the number of IT pros looking for work might not be considered a fit for the current open positions. The research shows that 79% of the IT candidates posting resumes online had five or more years of experience. But the majority (81.58%) of online job postings were for permanent full-time jobs and for candidates with less than one year of experience (59.47%).

"In times of economic uncertainty, employers are extremely mindful of expenses, especially as it relates to their recruitment program, to ensure that their business is able to continue thriving," said Rich Milgram, CEO of Beyond.com, in a statement. "As a result many companies are focused on hiring front-line workers who can make the most impact on their business with the least amount of financial risk, further widening the gap that exists between the type of candidates in demand compared to the type of candidates currently searching for a job."

Read more: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/051209-it-jobs-experience.html

---

Goes to show that these companies would rather hire a low wage H-1b worker than someone that has experience.

[HopeHoops]

1. I've actually been told to my face that I have too much experience.

WHEN DID THAT BECOME A BAD THING????

:mad: :grr: :nuke:

[DainBramaged]

4. Me too, about 6 years ago, I knew "too much" for the job per the interviewer

whom I dressed down over his ignorance and lack of decorum when I realized I wasn't getting the job. And I proceeded to make a comment as I was going out the door about the viability of the business itself. And I was correct, it is long gone.

[OhioChick]

13. Same here...."You're Overqualified."

Yet, the pres wants me to go to back for more schooling. What the hell for?

[mule_train]

46. that's what makes this whole thing so vicious

that people who get passed over for being overqualified get judged by non it people as underqualified because of media lies

[Lorien]

62. I always thought that was code for "too old"

ageism is alive and well. Most businesses would rather hire a hungry unskilled 25 year old than an experienced and professional 50 year old...for whatever reason (makes no sense to me).

[sendero]

49. Translation.

.... "we don't want to pay that much".

"And if you offer to take less, we're afraid you won't be happy"

[Regret My New Name]

68. Which means...

"you'll leave when something better pops up"

[OhioChick]

72. Sad thing is, nothing better "is" popping up. n/t

[russian33]

2. I'm running into this problem right now

as I'm actively searching for a job (hoping to find one before IBM has another round of lay offs), and I guess "unfortunatelly", I've been in IT field for almost 15 years

[sinkingfeeling]

3. Hey, I guess it must be better to hire somebody with less than 5 years than somebody with more than

35 years of experience.

[cap]

5. age discrimination against an aging workforce

People with 5 years experience generally have no families so that they can work insanely long hours. Also, they don't know enough to complain about when these insanely long hours are not done because some one on top screwed up.

Never mind cheaper.

This whole downturn has the older worker being shuffled out the door... aka the culling of the herd.

[mule_train]

6. there's a 'desparate shortage' of workers with slightly less experience

so we'd better raise H-1b quick

[CubicleGuy]

7. The problem is...

... that most IT people are smart enough to be able to take on just about any job in any IT department anywhere, even when lacking experience in a given language or technology; they know they will be able to pick it up in a short amount of time.

So, given that the employers know that they can hire from the entire pool of qualified IT workers, it all comes down to a matter of cost. Experienced workers are expensive workers. Nobody wants expensive without being able to justify the expense, and I guess they can justify it in only a very few cases where the position they're trying to fill is really a super-specialized position that not just anyone can do.

I got laid off at the end of 2002, and wasn't able to gain full-time employment back in IT until 2006. And even now, I'm working for about $30K less now than I was at the end of 2002.

So, the past 6 1/2 years has just been a real barrel of laughs, non-stop.

[LittleGirl]

18. your post sounds exactly like what I've seen

I figure any job I apply for, will take me about 30 days to be full speed...10 days to get up to speed but 30 to be full speed. I've been hired and expected to perform in 3 days so I know I can do just about anything they put in front of me.

Age discrimination is alive and well...I know. A recruiter told me so. Now that I have over 20 yrs experience in IT, my search continues and I don't know if I'll ever see another interview.

What you must do is repeat what the other poster says about younger staff failing to code properly, not knowing what to do in a crisis and whether or not they will come in hung over from the night before. Mature candidates cost more salary wise, but they show up, they deliver and they are loyal. If your childless like me, make sure you make that known because they are unable to ask about your family. Tell them you're not raising kids. And be friendly. Your personality gets you the job, not your qualifications. You have to be likeable and be seen as someone that will 'fit' with the group. Good luck all.

[AnneD]

21. We have the smae problem in Nursing....

and if they could get any more Nurses in on HB1 visas- the wages would be even more supressed than they are. There is not a shortage of Nurses yet, just a shortage of those willing to take the unsafe, crappy jobs for chump change that they offer.

[mule_train]

48. expect nursing to be the next big target nt

[OhioChick]

71. I heard nursing is already being hit. n/t

[Lucky Luciano]

8. See if you can leverage that expertise into trading/finance

because they want more experienced people there...

Here is the rejection letter I just got (note that I only have one year of real C++ programming experience for an equity derivatives quant desk, one year doing stat arb quant work (low frequency trading), and one year as an execution trader)....I got laid off by idiots who dropped $150MM even though my PnL was $10MM...now I have only had one phone interview in six months. My rejection letter is because I have not done enough quant and high frequency trading (which is very much an IT kind of trading):

"Lucky Luciano--

I apologize for the lag in getting back to you, that was an oversight on our part. Nelson certainly spoke to me about you, and Paul did receive at least one of those recommendations. Unfortunately, we've decided not to extend you an offer at this time; in this environment, we're seeing a huge number of resumes, and have decided to focus primarily on candidates with more experience in high frequency/high turnover trading. We recognize that we're passing on some very capable candidates; we thought that your background and skillset were strong, but were primarily focused on either product spaces that don't fit our current plans (i.e. credit, risk arb, international equity pairs) or which weren't clearly orthogonal to our in-house team (equity derivs, backtesting, etc.).

Again, sorry for the slow response. Best of luck in your job search, and let me know if I personally can be of any help.

Sincerely,

Mike"


It all goes into perspective when one realizes that this is not a tier one hedge fund like SAC or DE Shaw - and is not even a tier 2 hedge fund....it is a tier 3 prop shop. It is ruthlessly brutal out there and I am running out of money...I am all in though and fully committed. I would rather be homeless than to fail at becoming a trader again.

VICTORY OR DEATH!!!!!!

[nilram]

55. I would chew nails to get into trading/finance

And I was close (working on a system to evaluate currency exposures and make recommendations) before I was laid off. But that (written in Java) is even farther from your experience, which didn't get you into that last job. I'm also not wanting to move to NY, though I wouldn't mind a temporary move, or commuting. 20+ years experience... Any thoughts?

[Lucky Luciano]

65. PM Me....As it happens, one of my headhunters liked the way

that I tenaciously had 4 different references write to the hiring manager on my behalf. He liked it so much that he wants me to try my hand at recruiting...Hah! It pays very well, but not like trading of course - and it assumes that I find job leads and the candidates to fill the spots. I did develop some contacts from being the business for a few years which helps for sure.

Since you have no finance experience, you would start out in a pure IT role - but you should make yourself familiar with statistics, time series analysis, and maybe some basic options pricing theory to make yourself separate from other pure IT people - and it also increases the chances of getting the keys to the Ferarri (ie getting to trade a book). Good experience is certainly appreciated, but I must admit that after working on the biggest trading floor in the world (bigger than two football fields and 50 foot ceilings) I did not see many people over 40 - but that may be because people made so much money they could retire young or start a hedge fund.


Well, like I said, feel free to PM me...I can give you a call to chat, but will probably not be able to promise much given what I presume is a lack of financial IT background - nonetheless it might be worth our respective times!

-Lucky

[LeftHander]

9. Yup - Inexperienced IT workers make a big impact....

Why does the program crash?
Why did the server suddenly reboot?
Why did the guy delete all those records with MS-Access?
Why do IT issues cost millions in lost production and downtime?

Because companies prize cheap inexperienced labor.

Managers want malleable tech workers who do not question decisions made by non-technology people about technology.

[Ignis]

28. To continue along those lines...

Why is there no procedure-level documentation?
Why does the code have no useful comments?
Why didn't anyone update the password standards?
Why doesn't IT act as a control point?
Why doesn't IT do any risk analysis?
Why doesn't IT understand change management?
Why do IT processes deviate so wildly from COBIT/ITIL standards?
Why doesn't IT monitor, track, and trend failures?

The list goes on. Short-term thinking by management/bean-counters is the bane of real IT governance in the US.

[LeftHander]

29. damn straight! Lets Revolt! .....

okay...how do we revolt...

[Ignis]

31. Well, there's the Tech Union idea...

But most techies hate it, so I won't even bring it up. :)

[OhioChick]

32. I love the idea. n/t

[Grinchie]

74. Do what I did, buy a large tract of land and grow Organic vegetables!

Talk about Waterfall Based development, you can't get more challenging than managing Organic crops and developing the change manament plan for a field or orchard thats overrun with invasive weeds, or is in need of new irrigation.

When the DotCon bubble burst in 2002, I was forced to live off the proceeds of my Orchard, which I had bought as a means to shelter my 6 figure consultants income. Jobs disappeared overnight, but surprisingly, the Orchard kept me solvent for an extra 12 months before the debt caught up with me. It was a very fun time producing tangible products which were sold all over Northern California, and I finally realized that this was a more enjoyable business than being stuck in a cubicle all day.

I was lucky, since I was able to develop the necessary skill and mindset to simplify, and also that I was at the right place at the right time to purchase a large tract of farmland before the price of farmland jumped from $1000 to the current price of $7000 an acre. Strangely, Residential Housing prices have fallen nearly 45%, yet Ag Land is still highly overpriced. This is very concerning to me, because the valuable ag land in our area is being offered for outrageous sums, but it isn't selling, so I wonder what these speculators are doing, especially with the carrying costs they are incurring.

The prices they are asking make it impossible to farm anything without cash cropping on a huge mechanized scale. Whereas I can affored to take it slow and do what it right for sustainability and health of the land.

Plus, owning such a large tract gives one so many opportunities to keep fluent in the natural sciences, such as Trig, Math, Hydrology, Biology, Cartography, Topography, Surveying, Construction, Roads, Forestry, Animal Husbandry, IPM, Crop Selection, Biodiversity to name a few, that it is such a varied and interesting life to live on a day to day basis. Plus, their are alway rain days that will change plans on a moments notice which give time to Autocad, Writing Software, and generally learning more.

Today's Organic Farmer, former Software Engineer of 25 years.. Go figure.

I was a farmer before I lost interest in the IT industry, and as I learned more about farming, it definately crept in to my software designs by pruning out dead code with a vengeance, replacing poor performing code with rewritten hybrids, and generally simplifying everything I could lay my hands on. There are many projects I am proud of in the world that our team wrote, and I look back with fondness upon that now disappearing era.

My protest has gone more to living well outside of the system that we are taught to conform to, namely the Rat Race. It's not so bad as they make it out to be, because if more people knew how much fun it is to work hard in the freah air, without being forced to break your back all the time, more people would be doing it.

[RagAss]

67. And it's getting so bad we'll be using an abacus before long !

[Buns_of_Fire]

10. Personally, I think many of today's "managers" are scared to death...

...of hiring anyone who even LOOKS like they know the ins and outs of the job they're interviewing for -- or who appears like they might, heaven forbid, know more than the "manager."

Trouble is, given the current crop of "managers" running things, it's damned hard to pull that off unless you're willing to drool all over yourself at the interview.

[Lucky Luciano]

11. Here is an IT ad:

http://tradingmachines.com/employment.html

Qualified candidates will meet the following criteria:
Advanced degree in Computer Science, Mathematics, Physics, or similar technical field
Strong analytical capabilities and C++/Linux programming skills
Minimum 4 years experience in successful quantitative trading or automated trading business
Superior accomplishments in systematic trading, quantitative modeling, or market systems development role
Send your resume to [e-mail]

Featured Benefits:
Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield (three comprehensive options)
Dental Coverage
Company-Paid Long Term Disability Insurance
Company-Paid Life Insurance
Generous Paid Time Off
Matched Simple IRA Retirement Plan
Commuter/Parking Benefit Program
Company Activities Including Boat Outings, Family Activities and Office Parties
Delicious and Healthy Snack Food and Beverage Options Offered Daily
Daily Lunch Orders Discounted and Delivered to Your Desk

[Buns_of_Fire]

15. "Daily Lunch.....Delivered to Your Desk" tells me all I need to know. (n/t)

[Lucky Luciano]

23. You shouldn't complain - this job probably pays in excess of $1MM per year.

...and it could be more. Probably a $300K base plus a substantial bonus based on PnL - it all depends on experience level and proven track records though.

IT jobs in trading are extremely intense, so it is only for those who can work under extreme real time pressures...and you have to be at your desk to make sure that your trading algorithms are working properly - ie that they are not missing good trades and that they are implementing trades and stock hedges appropriately. In this case, the firm trades options - but options need to be hedged with stock.

[Buns_of_Fire]

43. They wouldn't come within a light-year of hiring me anyway.

And I've found it physically impossible to sit at my desk for eight hours running. I'm sure both the company and I are both better off with me never darkening their doorstep.:)

[mikelgb]

12. I've seen it happen. I've seen someone unknowingly training their replacement

Almost any IT job, no matter your experience will require some training.

It is way more cost effective to deny raises and have employees quit and bring in an entry-level.

[MindPilot]

44. I'm currently training my replacement and I know all about it

Suffice it to say I'm not doing a very good job... :evilgrin:

[RagAss]

66. I love it....! I would do the same....FUBAR training ....

[ihavenobias]

14. K & R, needs just one more. n/t

[Xithras]

16. There's also the "new technology" angle.

IT managers get a lot of their projects approved on buzzwords. They make a pitch about why they need the "latest and greatest" to executives with little understanding of practical IT needs, and then find themselves under intense pressure to get those projects completed.

I recently saw this in action with a few of my students. I was teaching an advanced C# class and a local company approached me about directly hiring some of my top students. After discussing the project with them, it turned out that they had started a project to re-architect their aging PERL based web architecture (extensive, with hundreds of individual apps) into .Net. They identified a few of their PERL developers who were already .Net knowledgeable, laid the rest off, and went to work hiring new .Net programmers.

Why didn't they just retrain? Because: 1) They wanted staff who could hit the ground running and didn't want the delay of waiting for people to get up to speed. 2) They wanted staff who would be using the latest techniques, rather than simply adapting older programming styles to newer languages. 3) Retraining is expensive, and it's cheaper to just hire someone who already knows it.

I teach CS, and I frequently hear programmers say things like "I'm not worried about learning that language. If I ever need it, I can pick it up quickly." What they don't get is that HR managers don't care how quickly you can learn it...they want you to know it from Day 1. The concept of employers supporting programmers while they retrain in newer languages has gone pretty much extinct over the last decade, and you're judged by the skills you bring to the interview today. And if you already have a job? I have to point out that the PERL developers who took the time to keep updated on the latest technologies got to keep their jobs with the company I mentioned. The ones who were happy just being PERL developers found themselves unemployed without warning or recourse. They were wedded to a technology the company no longer wanted, with no knowledge of the technology the company was embracing.

It's a competetive business, and you have to remember that the kids coming out of college today always know the latest, hottest technologies better than you do. If you want to compete with them, you need to know those languages as well as they do.

[CubicleGuy]

17. Yes, but...

What was the average rate of pay for those who got laid off vs. the average rate of pay for the new people they hired?

Let's just say I'm willing to bet it resulted in a net savings for the company involved.

Company loyalty? What's that?

[Xithras]

20. Lower, without question.

I'm not questioning that the lower cost is a factor, but many developers make the mistake of assuming that it's all about the money. Money is part of it, but experience with the newest technologies is another.

BTW, I have to mention that I had the most hilarious discussion with an HR person recently about this very thing. Up until last February I owned a small IT consulting firm and taught adjunct CS at a local college to supplement my income. I had to close the firm because my customer base evaporated, and have been looking for new full-time work since then. I recently applied at a company looking for C#/.Net programmers on contract, and "certification or training in C# and the Microsoft .Net architecture" was listed as a requirement. I received a phone call a few days after applying from someone in their HR department who stated that they "liked" my resume, but were concerned that I hadn't included anything showing that I was certified or trained in the language. I pointed out to her that my resume clearly stated that I TAUGHT college courses in the language, so I was clearly qualified to write in it. Her response? "I'm sorry, but the job requirements state that certification or documented training is a requirement, do you have anything from a teacher showing that you've been trained?" At that point, a light bulb went off in my head. You see, we permit people to take our classes for credit or certification (you can take my classes and get a certificate at the end, if that's your goal). I asked her if a class completion certificate from a college would work, and she replied that it would. My response this time? "Ok, I'll write one for myself and send it right over!" She paused for a moment and said, "No, that won't work. We need to see that you've completed actual course work for the class." Me: "I WROTE the course work for the class! I DID complete it!" Her: "That doesn't qualify, can you have one of the other teachers write something for you?" Me: "No, that would be fraud. They can't certify me unless I actually take their class. Legally, my certificate is just as valid as theirs though." Her: "I'm sorry, but I can't help you then. We'll be in touch." Obviously, I haven't heard back.

All programmers must remember one simple thing: The hiring decisions at many companies are made by blithering idiots with only the vaguest understanding of the positions they're filling. If your resume doesn't complete all of their checkboxes, you're out of consideration. It's stupid, but it's reality.

[Lucky Luciano]

24. It is very difficult to show respect to HR people - they have the lowest

intelligence of all employees as a general rule.

Morons

[Ignis]

27. That HR story made me LOL.

And then I cried.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

42. That is our HR department right there

(Everybody) must remember one simple thing: The hiring decisions at many companies are made by blithering idiots with only the vaguest understanding of the positions they're filling. If your resume doesn't complete all of their checkboxes, you're out of consideration. It's stupid, but it's reality.

Except to add if you aren't a woman under thirty they want to go clubbing with, a man under forty they want to marry or fuck or a gay dude they want to keep as a pet - you aren't getting past them.

I have to fight HR for virtually everybody I hire,

[ChromeFoundry]

26. There is a serious flaw in that logic...

First, just because someone takes a class in C#, does not mean they have experience. The code is only as good as the logic it possesses. There are many different forms of logic that need to be considered when architecting a business-grade application... programming language is very low on the scale of priorities.

Understanding the business goal is of the utmost priority.
Security, Scalability, Architecture and understanding a complex process model are way up on the list as well.

The problem is that the people doing the hiring do not understand what C# even is. They look at VB.Net, managed C++ and C# as completely different animals. All they really are is a flavor of syntax to access the .Net framework, plain and simple. Since the people doing the hiring cannot comprehend this, they feel that programming in C# is the biggest hurtle they will come across when looking for candidates. If they see ASP.Net on a resume, they do not understand that the code-behind is most likely done in C#.

Learning C# is ridiculously simple in comparison to, understanding and properly implementing lock operations in multi-threaded applications, inheritance, generics, writing custom socket calls, communicating with services, etc... Some of these beginners cannot even understand when you must use a "for"-loop and why a "foreach"-loop will break (because the IDE does not throw an error during the build)! They see the result as, "well it worked on my laptop...ship it."

There is a wealth of business, troubleshooting, professionalism, continuity, ...(the list goes on and on)... knowledge, that can be found in a seasoned developer when compared to a recent graduate. But companies want to keep believing in the "we hire rock-stars" mentality!

I agree that a seasoned developer needs to stay current in programming trends, but I fail to see where an existing Java, php, MASM, C/C++, VB, VB.Net, Fortran, Delphi, ASP, VBScript, DOS-Batch, COBOL, VAX-DCL, PowerShell developer would not run circles around any of your students in learning C#... C# is all borrowed from C, C++, Java and those all borrowed from older languages.

[Xithras]

30. I agree, but it's the logic we get to work with.

You're discussing the way things SHOULD work. I'm discussing the way things DO work.

By the way, I had the same discussion with that company when they approached me about hiring my students. I also pointed out to them that for a lowly $3500, they could hire me to teach their existing employees advanced C# using a 2 hour a day, 6 week crash course. $3500 is a drop in the bucket for a project like that, and is probably less than they spent replacing the employees. They'd already made the business decision to hire "knowledgable" C# programmers and weren't interested.

Nobody said that these hiring practices make sense, but this is the system that exists. All we can do is deal with it and adapt as much as possible.

[nilram]

58. And so they threw away a ton of domain knowledge...

How are they doing today? (Or is it too soon to tell?)

I think that company would have been so far better served by retraining most of their PERL programmers, laying off one or two of the less-productive ones if necessary, and hiring a seasoned C# programmer as a mentor to the rest. Not someone just out of your class (sorry), perhaps they should have hired/contracted with you as a mentor.

The business practices and domain knowledge is far, far more specialized than whatever platform they are implemented on. Any such re-implementation would have been better accomplished by an incremental re-implementation than by a wholesale change; all the better reason to keep experienced PERL folk around.

Do they really want to spend hours and hours of the domain experts time (typically more valuable than a programmer's) as the development team re-implements? No, nevermind, I know the answer -- they're too short-sighted to see that issue, and/or they think the existing system will be magically re-implemented without input from the business process experts... Argh, I'm glad I don't work there...

[cap]

50. if the current generation of IT pros in their 40's and 50's could retrain and pick up new stuff

at the drop of a hat, we'd still be on IBM mainframes. That's a real slap in the face to the people who brought you the IT revolution.

[nichomachus]

19. Too much experience -- just a nice way of saying "you're too old"

Everyone here has hit on most of the points.

Older, more experienced workers would expect to be compensated fairly.

Older, more experienced workers are less likely to be willing to work 36-hour days just for the thrill of it.

Corporations lopped off the older, more experienced workers to save money -- meaning that hiring managers are now younger and less experienced.

A 28-year-old hiring manager who's just keeping his head above water on the job isn't going to hire someone his/her father's age who knows more than the manager.

Last job interview I went on -- at age 60 -- I was interviewed by three 20-something women. I knew within three minutes that I wasn't going to get the job, despite the fact that I was working successfully in the exact job they were looking for only a year before -- and had been since they were in high school. I later found out they hired -- surprise -- another 20-something woman.

[TahitiNut]

63. Exactly.

There's no question about it.

[AndyTiedye]

22. Experienced Engineers Might do Better to Develop Something You Can Sell

Large corporations look to acquisitions these days for new development,
while pushing their engineers into technical marketing positions.

The only way we're gonna have any fun in this industry is to create our own jobs.

[nilram]

59. I hear ya

but I always have a hard time coming up with ideas. I've told my friends that I'll give them a cut -- a generous cut -- for good iPhone application ideas... (And if you have one... PM me.)

[Ignis]

25. Experience is expensive.

But mistakes are even more expensive.

Something tells me that the bean-counters aren't doing a real risk analysis on the prospect of hiring unseasoned IT workers.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

34. IT People: PLEASE learn litigation support software

There is a huge demand in legal circles for qualified technical people to support legal applications like Summation or Ringtail (also known as ringworm). Firms are laying off thousands and it took us FOUR MONTHS to fill a new position for somebody to support Summation full time. It is tough to fill these positions because the legal administrative side the work scares off a lot of IT people and the programs themselves are horrible, but the work is there and their the safest IT position anywhere because you contribute to billable hours when your doing case specific work.

[MindPilot]

45. Yeah but you have to work with lawyers.

and IT work in a legal environment -- I'd rather have my balls crushed.

[nilram]

53. thanks for the tip

I'll look into it!

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

70. see link:

http://www.summation.com/News/Seminars/default.aspx

I am not pimping Summation - I absolutely hate it and wish we didn't use it, but there is lots of work there for anyone who can tolerate it.

[DatManFromNawlins]

56. And how are we supposed to get this training?

That's the problem: companies want to hire people who already have experience in the technology, even if there's no way to get that experience but by using it. How many people you think are going to run out and buy a piece of software that has absolutely no use to them?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

69. Summation provides alot of training for free

http://www.summation.com/News/Seminars/default.aspx

Summation is horrid software that requires alot of support to be used to its full potential and that requires a background in SQL Server and Windows Servers. Not many legal assistants have that kind of background and not many IT folks decide to take a legal assistants course and learn Summation.

[undeterred]

35. I have 11 years IT experience and I am working an entry level job.

Lots of the people around me are way overqualifed in terms of education or experience but in this market you just have to suck it up. Some of the young ones who have technical school but no experience don't really have a lot of job choices either. But they still have illusions that they are going to make a lot of money at this.

[ChromeFoundry]

36. Too much experience could be hurting your IT job search

Source: NetworkWorld

IT professionals with more than five years experience on the job could have a more difficult time finding work during the recession than those with less experience, according to research from online career resource Beyond.com.

The IT industry continues to see online job postings, but the problem is that more and more high-tech workers are actively looking, Beyond.com found in its Career Trend Analysis Report for the first quarter. Beyond.com compiles data from its network of more than 15,000 online communities.

Close to 60% of business professionals polled said they would "take any job they could if they found themselves unemployed." And the data revealed that there was a 54.5% increase in the number of IT professionals searching for a job vs. during the same period a year ago.

The IT industry made up 11.32% of online job postings in the first quarter, second only to healthcare and medical at 23.2%, according to Beyond.com, but the number of IT pros looking for work might not be considered a fit for the current open positions. The research shows that 79% of the IT candidates posting resumes online had five or more years of experience. But the majority (81.58%) of online job postings were for permanent full-time jobs and for candidates with less than one year of experience (59.47%).

"In times of economic uncertainty, employers are extremely mindful of expenses, especially as it relates to their recruitment program, to ensure that their business is able to continue thriving," said Rich Milgram, CEO of Beyond.com, in a statement. "As a result many companies are focused on hiring front-line workers who can make the most impact on their business with the least amount of financial risk, further widening the gap that exists between the type of candidates in demand compared to the type of candidates currently searching for a job."

Read more: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/051209-it-jobs-experience.html

---

Goes to show that these companies would rather hire a low wage H-1b worker than someone that has experience.

[treestar]

37. Why is this profession so special? The rest of us have to work

for the price our work is worth. This group somehow is entitled to make more, and thus charge its customers more?

So we as buyers should have to pay even more for computer crap - that is forced onto us by everything having to be online and computerized by now - just because?

[OhioChick]

38. Why are immigration lawyers so special?

You sound like a republican, with your pro-outsourcing/pro-free trade stance.

[ChromeFoundry]

39. Shakespeare had the solution...

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

[OhioChick]

40. ........

:rofl:

Why the hell did you post this story twice, dumb-ass? :D

[ChromeFoundry]

41. RE: ..........

It got stuck in the tubes of the Internets; It was re-routed through so many hops and caching load-balancing servers that through a theory know as "Alpha-Particle Syndrome," it mutated into a nearly exact copy of itself.

Disclaimer: No electrons were harmed during the production or mutation of this message.

[mule_train]

47. 'but that's different'

;)

[OhioChick]

52. ........

:D

[Jim Sagle]

57. Just because we're Americans and our Congress should represent us, that's why.

And if you followed this thread at all, you'd know the clowns that hire newbies and HI-Bs are wasting money, not saving it. Do try to keep up.

[sendero]

51. I've been coding..

... (mostly C++) since the mid 80s. I spent 4 years out of the business because of the dot-com bust -which was especially brutal here in Dallas, a telecom hub.

I personally think IT is the most mismanaged undertaking in any business. It is generally run by penny-wise, pound-foolish morons who should be working at 7-11.

Being in my 50s, I'm lucky to have a job at all, but I make my own luck also, I solve problems and that makes me valuable.

I've gotten used to the short-sighted decisions, but I still complain. Ever so often, complaining helps :)

[RagAss]

64. Amen....most of them never wrote a line of code, and if they did...it Blew Up !

Jokers with Daddies or Uncles who got them their jobs...same old American Business model Bullshit ! I'm 50 myself now. Coding for 26 years. It's never been this bad. Billions spent on new technologies that are flakey at best. We're going down for good this time ! Five years tops and India will have it all.

[MindPilot]

75. I agree -- seems like managers think IT is self-sustaining.

With two weeks to go, I'm currently watching my soon-to-be-former employer's IT department fall apart.

They have laid off or early-retired hundreds of employees and brought in the contractors. I show up maybe three days a week.

This morning I am looking at the queue of helpdesk tickets and most of the issues will probably not ever get addressed because the people who know that stuff have been let go.

Edited to add: In IT the most effective form of subterfuge is simply do nothing. Once you stop saving managers from themselves the schendenfreude is quick and satisfying

[leftofthedial]

54. gee, ya think?

I dumbed down my resume, but that didn't work either.

[nilram]

61. I would shave off my (mostly white) beard when I interview

but I haven't been ASKED to any interviews...

[backscatter712]

60. Yeah, I'm out of work, and I'm going back to school.

I'm switching from Computer Science to Political Science.

On top of being sick of having the floor yanked out from under me every few years and having zero job security, I'm just burned out period.

School seems to be a good way to hide from this job market, and maybe if I have expertise in two separate fields, I'll be able to find some niche where I'm hard to replace.

[Grinchie]

73. After 25 years in the IT industry, the crap became unbearable

Training H1-b replacements, 10% job cuts while the Economy was "Growing" and Government IT projects were skyrocketing for our firm, just made it apparent that it was all a big fat fraud.

Many in California were already doing this in 2002 during the DotCon bust.

I left the industry, became a rennaisance man, and I still am overqualified! Hah!

Take that Fortune 100 - You can have your Dilbert simulation all to yourselves while I breathe clean air, devote time to what benefits me and my family, and generally ignore the rat race and what it go down in flames.