After US troops liberated concentration camps in WW2

[Fresh_Start]

they escorted (someone might say compelled) local German citizens to the concentration camps to make them witness what was done on their behalf.

Until we face what was done on our behalf, the almost half of American who think that torture is justified will continue to pretend that its not worse that fraternity hazing.

We're strong enough to survive the disclosure of the photos and weak enough to continue to pretend nothing untoward happened unless the evidence is pushed into the faces of the millions of American who continue to follow the wrongheaded philosophy of the previous administration.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Eisenhower made the local Germans clean up the camps. nt

[Fresh_Start]

4. I'm not generally a history buff, but that made a huge impression

on me. So many of us are capable of being passive and uninvolved in all the inhumanity that surrounds us, that I keep thinking how do we improve ourselves so that we are better than we currently are. I believe that shocking the sensibilities may be necessary to shake us out of the America Might Makes Right mindset.

[Captain Hilts]

6. In the grand scheme of things, those folks cleaning the camps got off lightly because

they'd been conquered by the US and British rather than the Red Army, so they lucked out.

[mmonk]

8. No doubt necessary if we are to go back to a more enlightened population.

The election has not quelled my fears about what we have become.

[PDJane]

2. yes. it's necessary.

[Mari333]

3. amen and good point

thats why people need to see. its the only way they will wake up.

[Fresh_Start]

5. I think it will take a major shock to the sensibilities to change us

as a society. But we need that shock. We need to stop being so callous to all the horrors of our willingness to use firepower to solve problems.

[Bluerthanblue]

7. rather large difference here though-

The German govt. didn't expose the horror- the Allies did.

And I completely agree with you that the wrongs done by the US and GB and any other 'allie' in this war MUST be exposed and prosecuted. I believe they will be. I'm not so sure this is the proper time- Hostilities had ended when the full truth of the death camps came out. Our soldiers are very vulnerable. Especially as we try and exit Iraq-

I'm not saying cover over, ignore or deny. I'm saying maybe we aren't the best people to make the decision.

I don't support the Lieberman/Graham proposal. This 'war' may never end-

[ljm2002]

9. I remember seeing a film of that...

...on PBS. The image that sticks with me, is when a line of citizens shuffled guiltily past a table showing artifacts, one of which was a lamp made of human skin.

When that reality hit home to one of the German women, she fainted dead away.

At least it showed she still had a conscience.

[Prune Belly]

10. Germany was also a vanquished country

America has yet to lose a war on its own soil. If that were to happen, then Americans could and would have their collective nose rubbed in the misery and suffering they've wrought upon the world. Until then, torture photos will just gross them out and they'll rationalize it somehow like they did with Abu Ghraib.

[Fresh_Start]

11. Some were able to dismiss Abu Ghraib

because it was the work of a few bad apples.

We need to understand it was the work of the US government at the highest levels.
I believe that there are still enough good-minded people who will be disgusted enough to shake up our government
But its not going to happen as long was we have a nicely whitewashed view of whats happened

[mmonk]

12. We won't know if they are never shown.

Many people still have not seen many of those pictures beyond the naked pyramids.

[PufPuf23]

13. Lying to market War and Shock and Awe Bombing of ...

the innocent is a worse crime.

Look at the detail of PNAC's Redefining American Defenses for the 21st Century beyond a "New Pearl Harbor".

The course has not changed at all. Obama is not in full control or is mislead or complicit possibly.

More likely we have huge institutional inertia and imbedded zealots. The same is true of the financial sector.

I am not ready to give up on POTUS Obama. Corrrections can be made and the job is deep and will take time.

[livefreest]

14. what do you say to all the people who, scared, in 2004 re-elected George Bush

because they thought he was tough and, within a few months, after Hurricane Katrina did not support him anymore. In the 2004 election, even though it had already become clear no WMDs were in Iraq and the intelligence from the Bush admin. was at least said to be wrong, those people voted for Bush.

I suspect these are the same people who voted for Obama but still believe that torture is "being tough on terror". In 2005, the response to Hurricane Katrina's aftermath, convinced these 30% or so of Americans(if memory serves me right) that Bush is not a great leader, tough and committed to well being of American's, after all. So if it's the same people what could appease their fear that all who condemn torture are left-wing, blame-america-first nut jobs, and get out of their minds that Dick Cheney could be right?