Since when did we here at DU start advocating the concealment of evidence of crimes?

[Mike 03]

This is very foreign to me. I thought we were in favor of outing the torturers among us.

I'm not advocating publishing the photos in the Washington Post, but releasing them to a legal body that can decide how to prosecute the people involved in these crimes.

What is crazy about that?

I feel like Rip Van Winkle. When the fuck did we turn against exposing the evidence of these crimes, to a responsible legal body that can take appropriate action against the perpetrators, while sparing the victims (minors and victims of humiliating sexual crimes) from stigmatization by sealing evidence as necessary?

[Horse with no Name]

1. January 20, 2009. n/t

[atreides1]

5. It's beginning to look that way. n/t

[FLAprogressive]

28. yup. nt

[Mari333]

2. if its a dem its okay to coverup crimes

if its a repub its not okay.
i know, it makes no sense.
i dont care who is in office. there should be an open and transparent govt.

[Luminous Animal]

3. The release of these photos

was a result of a court order under the FOIA. It has never been up to the admin to whom they should be released.

The admin is now looking for a legal out to keep them hidden.

[BuyingThyme]

4. When the then-future president voted for FISA immunity.

[tridim]

6. Nobody is concealing evidence of crimes.

The President is just delaying the public release of the evidence that will be used to prosecute BushCo.

[Luminous Animal]

17. The President is challenging a court order.

Your statement is pure speculation.

[Hepburn]

20. Say what?

:eyes:

[Zodiak]

24. That is unfortunately only a guess

We have no information on whether that information is ever going to get out because the administration said nothing about that issue, nor do we have evidence that there will even be a prosecution for those photos to be released to.

[tridim]

25. Even if there's a small chance it might be used as evidence..

Releasing it now could taint it. If that's what is going on it's a smart move.

BTW, all of us are guessing. Nobody knows for sure what's going to happen. :)

[Butch350]

7. Oh get off the high horse - there are far more important things to worry about.

[Mari333]

yes, lets not worry so much about the murder and rape and torture of

human beings done by our country using our tax dollars in 2 countries we are occupying .
you have got to be kidding.

[sendero]

18. Yeah...

... but he's fucking that (the economy) up too.

[AndyA]

22. "Oh get off the high horse - there are far more important things to worry about."

They said as they stood up on the veranda looking down at the pathetic little people below.

"Let them eat cake."

"Considering what they had before, this really is quite nice..." (said Barbara Bush as she spoke of the thousands of homeless living in packed conditions in the Superdome without running water or functional plumbing.)

Shame on you for thinking this isn't important.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Since OUR people took over...

yes call me cynical but people are putting party before country... like our sister, mirror site, that shall not be mentioned

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. I think there's a difference between classified info and concealment of evidence.

But don't let me get away with your wild tangent.

[rucky]

10. Do you have a link?

Because there's a difference between releasing to the public and releasing as evidence, and I think people are forming their opinions based on different facts... hopefully better than "Breaking on MSNBC Now"

[gratuitous]

11. I'm sure I couldn't say

But since I paid for these atrocities, war crimes and crimes against humanity, I figure I'm entitled to see what I bought. And they could publish 'em in the Washington Post for all I care. What I'd really like to see is portrait-size blow-ups of the photos in heavy gilt frames, suitable for hanging around the necks of the architects of these crimes. Imagine Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of this gang having to appear in public with a photo of some poor FUBAR bastard whose only crime was being on the wrong side of the mountain ridge when the Marines came calling on his mortal enemy.

[Mari333]

12. ..

:thumbsup:

[Zodiak]

26. Good post, gratuitous

Righteous, and it reflects my feelings, as well.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. The same time it became fashionable on DU to become hawks.

Covering up crimes and waging a war for PR is now chic when "our" guys are doing it.

[Quantess]

21. There are even some DUers who defend the use of torture in some situations.

Thankfully, that is a fairly unpopular viewpoint among all Americans, not just Democrats.

[baldguy]

14. Releasing the photos publicy will do nothing but feed the hatred for America the Bush Regime created

That's something we're trying to avoid.

Keeping the evidence from wide release is not the same as denying that the evidence exists.

[The Hope Mobile]

15. Right. Not wanting to hide things but . . .

not wanting an ugly situation to get much worse or cause MORE innocent people to be hurt as a result of the BFEE's crimes.

[G_j]

19. I believe it's just the opposite

the rest of the world already knows more than most Americans, continuing to conceal as the Bush-Cheney admin has done is far worse for our image.

[Echo In Light]

23. Exactly

[mike_c]

27. the only people fooled by any of this are Americans....

This isn't to help the U.S. image abroad. That's already thoroughly trashed. Simply knowing that these pictures exist and that they're so bad that we are trying to hide them assures that.

"Sunlight is the best disinfectant." The only way to restore any U.S. honor is to shine a bright light on ourselves and hose out the cockroaches. With the Nuremberg hose.

[chrisa]

30. It helps people bury their heads in the sand.

"Keeping the evidence from wide release is not the same as denying that the evidence exists. "

Hearing about something and seeing it are two different things. They should show these photos every day as a reminder of the compassion that our government shows the world. Since when is this the USSR with revisionist history, and the government selecting what we can see and what we can't see?

[lob1]

16. I agree with releasing the evidence, but giving the pics only to a

government "body" is hiding the evidence, not exposing it. Lots of "higher ups" knew we were using torture, but only when the pics of Abu Ghraib (sp?) came out did anyone complain. Unfortunately, I've come to believe that if any justice is to happen, it's going to come about because people are so pissed that the government has to do something. Today, the talking point seems to be that these pics are just more of the same that has already been released. That makes no sense. If it's more of the same, who cares? It's worse stuff. Lots worse. We'll never know how bad until we see the pics.

[Individualist]

29. Since the influx of DLC supporters began

[Zodiak]

31. I am having a very hard time with this subpopulation of DU

Before, I cannot honestly say that not too many DUers were arguing that the Abu Ghraib photos should have never been made public or that the ACLU should lose its lawsuit to obtain the additional photos.

Now it is perfectly okay with far too many DUers for my tastes.

And the rationalizations and wishful thinking that follows boggles the mind. Protect the troops? Protect the victim's privacy? They'll be released AFTER the wars? People might hate us more, etc.? All of these are based on zero evidence and a lot of faith and are reminiscent of Bush's excuses to keep information under wraps. They are excuses and rationalizations...and the world will see them as such, as well.

I do not "trust" or "have faith" in any politician from any side the political spectrum, and I am certainly not going to start when it comes to issues of human rights and the rule of law. I have a series of promises I voted for, and I expect them to be honored....especially the open government promises.

The photos should be released, the people do need to see what their tax dollars have bought, and the prosecutions of the architects of this barbarity need to begin. Anything less is excuse-making, and damages our reputation far worse than the photos will.

[DU GrovelBot]

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