When you hear a TV personality defending torture remember, this is how it began in Germany

[ThomWV]

I kid you not.

Linsey Graham disgraced the United States today. There is no other way to say it.

[LakeSamish706]

1. Yeah, well Tweety and his guest just did the same thing on Hardball....

They actually sat there and defended it.

[malaise]

6. Correct n/t

[louis-t]

2. Funny how all the military people say "torture bad"

and all the politicians and pundits say "torture good".

[FiveGoodMen]

3. It's like we didn't learn anything from the history of the Nazis.

We don't even remember that 'Just following orders' doesn't cut it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. We don't teach history in this country

there is wide spread willful amnesia

[FiveGoodMen]

13. Very true.

My dad was a high school history teacher.

He and I used to debate all kinds of topics and one recurring theme was, "Is history important?"

My view (as a teenager) was that we're all slaves to history -- through tradition -- and that we should break free of it.

His view was basically Santayana's, "Those who can't remember history are condemned to repeat it."

All these years later, that's the one argument that I think he won.

[Bluerthanblue]

4. there is NO defense for torture. EVER. Lindsey Graham has disgraced us many

times before. I doubt this will be the last time.

Cheeny's crusade to turn the issue into some kind of twisted 'patriotic' act is beyond disgusting. I think it's important for us not to let the media- or ANYONE else, distract us from the real issue. The decision to Torture was made by the Oval Office, and there is a long line of enablers who not only made it possible, but who actively promoted it.
We need to push for prosecution. The photos will serve to give evidence of our disgrace.

[RandomThoughts]

5. That is why accountabilty for the people that broke those laws is so important.

It will define the direction of our future.

[Fuzz]

7. Homeland uber ales

[Raskolnik]

8. I think your history may be a bit off.

While torture is wrong, and defenses of torture are sickening, this really isn't "how it began in Germany."

[Mind_your_head]

11. Well, then "to YOUR understanding", please educate us all to "how it began in Germany" then.

We're waiting......(and we will be checking for your illumination on this issue). Take your time to 'get it right'.

TIA,
DU @ large

edit to add: Take your time to 'get it right'.

[Raskolnik]

12. Might I suggest some reading on the subject?

Simply put, nearly every government in history has engaged in some form of bad behavior, and most have sought to bend the rule of law to one degree or another to suit their purposes. Not every instance of such behavior is ground for "this is how it started in Germany," however, as the social conditions in the U.S. and the specific behavior of the Obama administration are not even remotely close to those of Germany and the National Socialists of the '20's and early '30's.

That doesn't make it right, and frankly we *should* be frightened of (and furious at) our government torturing in our name, but it isn't even close to analogous to the rise of Hitler and the Nazis.

If you are actually interested in comparing the two situations, "The Coming of the Third Reich" by Richard Evans is a pretty good popular history (and his following two volumes are not bad either), and you can't go too far wrong with the old standby "Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich" by William Shirer. I think Joachim Fest has written the best biography of Hitler, which goes a long way to explain how and why Hitler (and the Nazis) rose to power.

http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Third-Reich-Richard-Evans/dp/0143034693/ref=pd_sim_b_26
http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Third-Reich-William-Shirer/dp/0671728687/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242262442&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Joachim-C-Fest/dp/0156027542/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242262795&sr=1-2

[jgraz]

9. Remember, it's not a Holocaust until it happens to white Europeans.

:sarcasm: