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Ah the double standard of Empire

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 01:55 PM
Original message
Ah the double standard of Empire
when the US took over Germany one of the General Orders given by Supreme Commander Dwight Eisenhower was for people who lived around the death camps to go through them. The locals said it was an American invention, and it could not be that bad... right until they were forced to march through places like oh Bergen Belsen and also forced to bury the victims. That is what broke the spell of denial.

The equivalent needs to happen in the United States. So you say you have seen enough, you don't need to see them horrors. Yes you do. You and the Rushbos of the wold. WE as a people need to see them.

In the short term it will inflame emotions in the middle east and it will put a bulls eye on american troops. General Odierno is right on that. BUT, in the long term not releasing this, not holding trials and moving on will only set the stage for the Empire to do this again. PERIOD. This has to be brought to the public eye, we need to try these people and we need to bear witness.

Do I expect the Empire to go there? No. We are treated like children, and will continue to be treated like chidlren and we like it that way. We don't want to face the horrors. We say but I know it happened... Sure you do. Sure you do... this is normal, that you don't want to see it. Well, bear witness.

That is all I have to say...

And yes we are a nation full of double standards and Nuremberg is nothing more than victor's justice.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Did you know where Germany got the Concentration Camp idea from?
The British invented them during the Second Boer War.

So, yeah, Empire....


Concentration camps (1900 - 1902)

The English term "concentration camp" was first used to describe camps operated by the British in South Africa during this conflict.

The camps had originally been set up by the British Army as "refugee camps" to provide refuge for civilian families who had been forced to abandon their homes for one or other reason related to the war. However, when Kitchener succeeded Roberts as commander-in-chief in South Africa in 29 November 1900, the British Army introduced new tactics in an attempt to break the guerrilla campaign and the influx of civilians grew dramatically as a result. Kitchener initiated plans to

"flush out guerrillas in a series of systematic drives, organized like a sporting shoot, with success defined in a weekly 'bag' of killed, captured and wounded, and to sweep the country bare of everything that could give sustenance to the guerrillas, including women and children.... It was the clearance of civilians—uprooting a whole nation—that would come to dominate the last phase of the war."<21>


Lizzie van Zyl, visited by Emily Hobhouse in a British concentration campAs Boer farms were destroyed by the British under their "Scorched Earth" policy—including the systematic destruction of crops and slaughtering of livestock, the burning down of homesteads and farms, and the poisoning of wells and salting of fields—to prevent the Boers from resupplying from a home base many tens of thousands of women and children were forcibly moved into the concentration camps. This was not the first appearance of internment camps. The Spanish had used internment in the Ten Years' War that led to the Spanish-American War, and the United States had used them to devastate guerrilla forces during the Philippine-American War. But the Boer War concentration camp system was the first time that a whole nation had been systematically targeted, and the first in which some whole regions had been depopulated.

Eventually, there were a total of 45 tented camps built for Boer internees and 64 for black Africans. Of the 28,000 Boer men captured as prisoners of war, 25,630 were sent overseas. The vast majority of Boers remaining in the local camps were women and children. Over 26,000 women and children were to perish in these concentration camps.

The camps were poorly administered from the outset and became increasingly overcrowded when Kitchener's troops implemented the internment strategy on a vast scale. Conditions were terrible for the health of the internees, mainly due to neglect, poor hygiene, bad sanitation and food shortages. The food rations were meagre, there was a two tier allocation policy whereby wives and children of men who were still fighting were routinely given smaller rations than others. The inadequate shelter, poor diet, inadequate hygiene and overcrowding led to malnutrition and endemic contagious diseases such as measles, typhoid and dysentery to which the children were particularly vulnerable. Coupled with a shortage of medical facilities many of the internees died.

As many Africans became refugees as the war raged across their farms and with the destruction of their homes, they, like Boers, moved to the towns where the British army hastily created internment camps. Subsequently, the "Scorched Earth" policy was ruthlessly applied to both Boers and Africans; although most black Africans were not considered by the British to be hostile, many tens of thousands were also forcibly removed from Boer areas and also placed in concentration camps.

Africans were separately held from Boer internees. Eventually there were a total of 64 tented camps for Africans. Conditions were as bad as in the camps for the Boers, but although after the Fawcett Commission report conditions improved in the Boer camps, "improvements were much slower in coming to the black camps." It is worth noting that Emily Hobhouse and the Fawcett Commission only ever concerned themselves with the camps that held Boer refugees. No one paid much attention to what was going on in the camps that held African refugees. It is thought that about 12% of all black African inmates died (about 14,154) but the precise number of deaths of Africans in concentration camps is unknown as little attempt was made to keep any records of the 107,000 black Africans who were interned.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Add the US Reservations to the list
but yes, they did
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Exactly - there's a reason why the Seminole called it the "Trail of Tears"
The Seminole Nation of Oklahoma operates three casinos and smoke shops. They should use some of the profits to buy up more land in Florida adjacent to the established tribal reservation down there and move back to their rightful home, chasing off the developers who threaten the Everglades.

But that's just me.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Something else to challenge delicate sensibilities
(WARNING: Disturbing and morbid imagery)

http://www.dimmu-borgir.com/video/sorgens-kammer-del-II.mpg

English translation (for those who don't speak Norwegian):

The echoes of silence sets the hour
Gagged in the chains of depression, I fall away
No more I will be bolted fast in the anchor of melancholy
But finally get my longing fulfilled - for leaving

Did I drink too much from the goblet of optimism?
Did I take the vanity of joy for granted?
For my battle against the pain of emptiness - this intoxication of the angst of death
Is all that remains that is mine

In my loneliness I still know
That I have none but myself to thank
This is why I keep my calm
As the rope tightens around my neck


(Verse repeats)

Mute witnesses can not give comfort
The common man in the assembly of the gravechoir
This land of perdition
I created by my own hands

This intense attraction to the portals of death
A wandering study of tearful black mass
Controlled since the dawning of time
But something I never would let go - was the sorrow

In my loneliness I still know
That I have none but myself to thank
This is why I keep my calm
As the rope tightens around my neck
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Nothing like some of the shit I've seen in my life
though it is artistic... and for that props
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. You've hit on the real reason the photos won't be released
It has nothing to do with "inflaming passions" in the ME. They're already pretty inflamed -- and the people there are already pretty aware of the atrocities, since they've lived through them.

It's to keep them from us. Because showing the American people what was done in their name would put great big holes in the myth of American moral superiority. It would force people to face what is being done in their name and with their tax money.

There aren't going to be any meaningful investigations, prosecutions, or punishment. The behavior will continue -- and that's what will endanger Americans everywhere.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. They will be released and there will be prosecutions, but ONLY AFTER the empire fails
and I know the country will not survive the failure either. But that is the moment that all this crap will finally see the light of day...

As long as the empire lives, they can't. And yes, you are right
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. kick
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is the end of "hope" for "change."
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