Proud Geek--wanna make something of it?

[Mythsaje]

I grew up on Star Trek--you know, that early integrated starship crew traveling around the galaxy on a mission of exploration rather than expansion? I also grew up reading comic books like Spider-man and X-Men. I played a lot of D&D as a teenager. I read SF and Fantasy almost exclusively back then--everything from Heinlein to Robinson to Saberhagen to Norton. I LOVED Star Wars and the subsequent novels (though I despise everything about the prequel trilogy and the train wreck that is Clone Wars).

Someone asks "why do adults care about this stuff?"

As a geek from day one--I was reading comic books in Kindergarten--I have to say "Because we don't have a stick up our asses."

Just saw the Star Trek reboot yesterday and loved it, though I have to wonder how someone who doesn't "get it" can look around and NOT see how it's influenced the growth of our technology. Flip phones and PDAs, Voice Recognition software and GPS. These things were BORN of SF and integrated into our popular culture through Star Trek.

"You, Mr. Burton, were not put on this world to GET IT."

I also grew up watching the old b/w movies of another era, the ones some people think epitomize the "golden age" of American entertainment. See, this was back before you could dependably see modern movies broadcast across all the networks at any given time, when the independent channels, such as they were, put on old movies during the day and late at night. But, honestly, I'm still not sure why anyone would prefer them to modern fare.

One person's trash is another's treasure. This is true in movies, books, and music more than anywhere else. I don't expect everyone to love everything I love, or dislike what I dislike. If I say I think modern American rock music sucks, I'm sure I'll find those who agree and those who do not. If I say American metal has gone to the dogs (almost literally, given the sounds most so-called vocalists make) there are those who'd get offended.

When one delves into the world of literature, things get even more contentious. You have "real" literature (the kind of the stuff that made my college Am Lit class something akin to mental torture--I never knew boredom could be so painful), and you have "trash" literature--like anything speculative. SF, Fantasy, and the like. MY cup of tea.

I know my own novels aren't for everyone and that's okay. A long time ago I accepted the advice to "write for yourself" because you can't please anyone and, frankly, who wants to? I'm not looking to write "The Great American Novel," whatever that is. My stuff is fast-past fantasy adventure with (hopefully) engaging characters. Entertainment with maybe a little social commentary thrown in from time to time. That's good enough for me.

On one of my email groups someone asked recently, "so whatever happened to scary vampires?" My answer? Anne Rice humanized them, Buffy knocked them down to size, and Twilight made them household guests. The time of scary vamps is over. There will probably never be another "Salem's Lot."

Of course, there are those who revile anything to do with the restless undead, and that's okay. Fangtasia isn't for everyone. But it's funny how many people are happy to get their hate on for anything Twilight related, almost in knee-jerk reaction to super hype. Don't worry, folks, it'll fade. That's what hype does. But, in the meantime, millions of people are reading for pleasure who have never done so before. And that's a win all around.

So, a message to my fellow geeks. When you're sitting at a bar discussing the evolution of the Dark Knight, please be aware of the "normal" sitting alone at the bar behind you, soaking it all up and gaining nothing from it. NOT getting it at all. Let's keep in mind, "Normals" are people too. Ostensibly. ;)

It's funny, considering that "Normals" are what the people in my future novels call those without altered DNA--the small subsection of humanity that hasn't been changed by Loki's metaviruses. In my world, people had to redefine what it meant to be "human." Silly things like race and/or nationality become far less important when the guy next to you on the bus might be a vampire or lycanthrope.

And in the end that's what all this geek stuff is about. Striving to understand OUR world better through the lens of a world that might be similar, but just different enough to give us all a new perspective on old assumptions. Star Trek and the comic book movies MIGHT seem like a waste of time, but they've managed to inspire whole generations and given many of us new things to think about. Love 'em or hate 'em, they're not going away. The 80 + millon dollar opening weekends make that a certainty.

I'd rather have a spider-man reading Trekker geek in the Oval Office than a misanthropic missing link. Call me weird, but that's just how I see it. You think Obama isn't going to "waste" the 126 minutes watching the new Trek? Given that he once flashed Leonard Nimoy (that's the fellow who played Spock, to the uninitiated) the Vulcan hand-sign, I personally think that's pretty damn unlikely.

Yeah, I'm a geek. And I don't feel a moment of shame about it. May we ALL "Live Long and Prosper."

[TTUBatfan2008]

1. Proud Batfan here...

Screw the haters. Batman/Joker is one of the great yin and yang relationships in all of American fiction. If the haters don't get it, then it's their loss.

[TheMightyFavog]

2. Love the Big Trouble In Little China reference.

Great flick!

[Echo In Light]

14. .

[shadowknows69]

31. Yep, one of my favorites too.

[bunnies]

3. Chess club = geeks.

trekkies = nerds. Just sayin. :hide:

[FloridaJudy]

16. Some of us are both.

There's a huge overlap. I was president of my chess club, and have been reading Science Fiction since age 8.

I was a lousy chess player, BTW. They only elected me because nobody else wanted it.

[Mythsaje]

19. I was never particularly good at Chess. My father always beat me.

Chess in many ways is similar to computer RPGs... true tactical ability is hampered by the limitations of the rules and the programming. You can't do anything truly original because, in chess, the rules are so clearly defined, and, in computer RPGs, you can't do anything the programmer hasn't thought of first.

In table-top games, however, I tend to throw the gamemasters curve ball after curve ball because I like to do the unexpected, things no one has ever thought of before.

[Deja Q]

4. What has the new remake/reboot done that the original didn't do?

;)

The original gave us lots, including hope and compassion.

The new one just seems an action piece, with characters being used as comedy routines for jokey effect when not being stock action figures. Then comes the ending (at least they offer "Nero" a helping hand, but the snide remarks after that are so un-Trek-worthy.)

It is not nerdy or geeky to ask that, if redoing a franchise, to keep it real to what its creator wanted. I may as well take "Three's Company", a show about 3 people living platonically and have to fight off accusations of them going at it with each other, into a show about 3 people getting it on all the time and fighting accusations that they are just being platonic. In which case, why not make a new brand and franchise and avoid criticisms altogether?

Self-Mocking is not the same thing as updating, synonymous as it has become in this day and age.

If it wasn't for the special effects, I would have been bored to tears. Except for trek I (1979), all the movies and the classic TV show relied on character interaction and really delving into "the human condition".

I am looking forward to the next movie, but I won't easily forget JJ's own admission that he never liked Star Trek or understood it. "I never got Star Trek" I think was his quote... therefore, what's he doing molesting it, camping up every stereotype from the TOS era just for comedic effect? Like most modern media, it's shallow, marketed pablum.

That reminds me, I need to buy a nokia phone and drink some budweiser. The new movie told me so.

[Mythsaje]

10. Seems you're in the minority, friend.

It managed to be a new brand of inclusive Trek that just might bring a lot of new blood into the fold... Out of the hundreds of reviews I read, very few were negative. And, honestly, I can see the original Kirk doing the same exact thing with regard to Nero's demise. Hell, I can see Piccard doing it. "We'll offer, but it won't hurt our feelings if you tell us to go screw ourselves." I mean, why should it? I know I laughed at that exchange. Saving people who want to kill you, especially if they don't WANT to be saved, is just fucking stupid. Like my own Jaz would say--"never leave live enemies behind you." Personally I think this is precisely where we liberals often fail--we all too often hesitate to deliver that knockout punch that'll end the fight, and wonder why it is we can't really ever defeat our adversaries.

And, funny thing, Nokia probably WILL still be around in the 23rd century. And anyone willing to drink that piss-water called Budweiser is welcome to it. Unfortunately, it will probably still be around in 200 years as well. I thought it added a strange sense of authenticity to everything. You know--"Yep, that's Earth all right." It's not as though they beat us over the head with them.

[ieoeja]

Actually, I always thought of the "knockout punch" as a liberal aspect.

Every war the United States won was under a liberal president. I would give the following reasons:

- Liberals (usually) only enter wars when we have to which makes losing not an option, and
- Liberals are more willing to change tactics and strategies.

Worst thing you can call a general is "too conservative".


Take Israel and Palestine. Best thing that could happen for Israel is for them to return to their 1967 borders, watch Palestine build up a military, wait for the invasion, then destroy them. As bad as the Palestinians have it now, it ain't nothing to what a Israel would do to them in the above scenario when the gloves could then be taken off.

[hfojvt]

26. that's sorta what I thought from the previews

that it was action whiz-bang rather than true to the original.

The fact that "it sells", is not a mark in its favor either. It is bringing in new fans, but new fans expecting a new product, one with more sugar and less nutrition, more action and less thoughtfulness, more Star Wars and less Star Trek. It's not so much that they should have rescued Nero (not that I have seen the movie) but that this movie seems to have what the original Trek did not, a more simple black-and-white confrontation - Federation=good and Nero=bad.

Whereas from a couple of Trek examples, with the Gorn and Spock's father as the Romulan commander, Trek seemed to say that maybe our enemies are not totally evil, that they are, in fact, a lot like us. Or sometimes, like our barbaric past, acknowledgement of which takes away our own penchant for being judgemental.

Plus, wasn't there character interaction and delving into the human condition in ST I (which is probably my 2nd favorite of the 6 Trek movies)?

[JerseygirlCT]

41. Wow, we really disagree here

I thought the character development in the movie was miles ahead of what we saw on the show. The characters now had depth (and acting abilities! Boy, Shatner is a lousy actor. Funny commercials, though). And adding that depth made the storyline so much more interesting to me.

I do think there's much more to do with the characters now, based on the work done in this film. I'd love to see their explorations take off again, from this point.

[miyazaki]

44. Shatner a lousy actor as Kirk? pffff wtf... n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

45. Stiff, lacking emotion.

Yeah. Even though I loved the story lines of the show, even as a kid I felt him lacking any depth.

[JuniperLea]

85. The character lacked depth...

If anything, Shatner over acted in an effort to put some zazz into the dry character. IMHO...

[JerseygirlCT]

92. Which is almost always a mistake.

Taking it down a notch, and chewing less scenery usually makes for a more compelling performance.

[JuniperLea]

94. Absolutely

But when you think about it, his over acting is more of what made Shatner AND his Kirk character memorable. Double edged sword, and nothing but hindsight can see it!

[JerseygirlCT]

95. Well, it was definitely good prep for his commercials now

I do like the way he's been able to jump right in and make fun of himself there.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Modern Bing Crosby fans have no business insulting other people as geeks.

You've got nothing to worry about.

[Ron Green]

6. When CG took the place of cinematography

is where movies lost me. 2001: A Space Odyssey was a culmination of something rather than a harbinger, in my opinion. I've tried valiantly to enjoy Star Wars, Star Trek, LOTR, and a bunch of other extraphotographic movies, but for me it's like listening to Kenny G. when I could go back and listen to Benny Carter again.

[Deja Q]

7. It's not as much CG as it is the asinine number of ships blowing things up...

Slow, tense dogfights always seem more special than 50000 small ships battling one large one at breakneck speed. Quality vs quantity.

The new Trek movie is all CG, but the Enterprise looks and feels authentic.

The black hole stuff is gibber, but that ship's exterior looked awesome. (not bad for a casual trekkie that defends Roddenberryism yet doesn't attack anything just for the fun of it... I mean, the new CG images for the 'remastered' 60s show look cheap and crap... nice usage of camera angles, but the models looked too 2D and cartoony. In a word: Underwhelming.)

[Posteritatis]

86. MTV cinematography's kind of annoying too

I read someplace that the average shot length in Armageddon was something like one and a half seconds, and that wasn't too much below average for Standard Summer Films anymore.

You can do some absolutely staggering things with well-done CG - I'm sorry, but the moment I saw the Balrog in the first LotR movie I was sold - but I think it's best when combined with the good techniques people have used long before CG was a gleam in anyone's eye. Really good CG blows me away, but things like that incredible, ridiculous, extended single-take aerial shot from The Longest Day does so as well. I started noticing long shots in movies and TV ever since I saw that one part, and I've grown to respect those a lot more than jumpjumpjumpjumpjump-o-vision.

(As an instance of the two being combined, I've always been sort of impressed at that opening two-minute shot from the third Star Wars prequel. Much as I despised the new trilogy, and I did think that shot was chaotic to a fault, it was also a pretty amazing piece of work and I'm pretty confident the people involved could pull off some amazing things in a slightly more, ah, elegant scene.)

[Mythsaje]

12. 2001 bored the crap out of me.

And there's always those who can't get aboard a new, faster train. "Sound in movies? Bah. Never catch on. Who wants to listen to actors TALK?" "Color? Why would anyone watch a movie in color?" CGI makes what was previously impossible possible. I imagine what my stuff would look like with the right CGI and my mouth starts watering.

There's still plenty of people and studios making ordinary movies with no CGI. But SF, Fantasy, and such things demand great visual representations.

Kenny G? I'd rather be stuffed into a bag full of rabid weasels.

[Ron Green]

20. There's a pretty good case to be made for NO sound in movies.

Some of the best examples of F.W. Murnau or Griffith or Keaton reach a kind of perfection that sound films can't achieve, although the great dialog of the 30's to the 50's gives greatness to that "golden age" as well, with black and white photography delivering a richness that color doesn't have.

I agree that science fiction relies pretty heavily on special effects to convey its ideas, and I'm sure that as CG is further developed our "willing suspension of disbelief" will be less and less necessary.

But there has to be a story, or it's like Kenny G., with no beginning or end.

[Echo In Light]

25. Begotten

[SpookyCat]

71. You are one of, well, zero people I have ever personally encountered

who know "Begotten". I am impressed, and a little disturbed. :hi:

[Echo In Light]

82. It works great w/Sleep's Jerusalem (aka Dopesmoker) playing over it as a soundtrack

Sorta like the infamous Wiz of Oz/Dark Side of The Moon infusion, but w/o the striking coincidences :)

[SpookyCat]

91. Sweet, I'll try that.

I don't own the movie, sadly, and NetFlix "knew" it, but said it was unavailable.

I'd love to get a copy of that poster for my cube, but people here already look askance at me...LOL!

[Soylent Brice]

8. K&R huge SF fan here, anything from Clarke and Wells to Stross.

comics, movies, novels. if it's sci-fi, i'll watch it, read it, or attempt to absorb it through so desperate and ill fated attempt at osmosis.

we owe a lot, if not all technological advances, to the adults who "never grew up".

[Taverner]

9. Not a fanboy, but I understand

Star Trek to me has always been an idealized version of society. I would love to live in the Star Trek universe, or try to make the US more like it.

Its benevolent socialism, even handed democracy and at its core pure meritocracy.

[Warpy]

11. Happy to K&R

Proud geekess here, grew up on SF, thought the premise of "I, Tobor" was really spiffy although I was too young to articulate it. Picked stuff apart to find out how it worked. Read anatomy books in grammar school for fun. Did the thermite reaction in high school while everybody else worked on the moonshine still. Preferred "Popular Science" and "Popular Mechanics" to teenybopper girl magazines about hair and makeup.

I've always been resolutely out of step and it's just fine, although a little lonely from time to time because normal people really, really don't get it and never will.

Some of them like the explosions, though, so there's at least that point of reference with them.

[TTUBatfan2008]

13. "Some of them like the explosions..."

Now that is something I have a problem with. Don't me wrong, I enjoy good action but I prefer that it happen within the context of good storytelling. Michael Bay's Transformers franchise represents everything that is wrong with modern moviemaking and modern moviegoers. A story as rich and complex as Watchmen flops but the Transformers franchise is going to make billions upon billions by the time they stop pumping them out.

[Mythsaje]

17. I thought Transformers was okay, but I'm a little old even for the cartoon...

I guess I missed the boat on that one. Ho-hum. And I haven't seen Watchmen yet. I don't think dark is always better. After reading the graphic novel, I still can't say I "get" Watchmen myself. The protagonist was a psychopath and there was only ONE real "superhero." Not exactly what I sign up for when I read a comic or see a movie. And, frankly, even the darkest of my heroes would've eviscerated The Comedian when he shot his mistress. Innocents are never fair game.

[TTUBatfan2008]

29. Watchmen is NOT a superhero story...

It is a deconstruction of the superhero formula and at its heart it is an existentialist work about humanity itself (our self-destructive tendencies, our connection to other people, etc.). I recommend that you look around the Internet for more elaboration on the themes but it is a very layered piece of art. And I say art because that is exactly what it is. It is not there primarily for entertainment but rather primarily to make a point.

And here's something about The Comedian's actions in Vietnam that you probably didn't think about. His treatment of the woman is actually symbolism for how America treated Vietnam. Like I said, it's a layered piece of art. Alan Moore is a brilliant but eccentric writer.

[shadowknows69]

36. And the point was also to illustrate how detached Dr. Manhattan was becoming

Yes, I plead guilty of geekism your Honor.

[Mythsaje]

37. And done with SUCH astonishing subtlety, too...

/sarcasm.

:)

[Posteritatis]

89. I liked when he figured that out

The chapter on Mars is my favorite part of the novel.

[semillama]

90. I had to read it three times

before I even caught on to the whole Black Freighter subtext!

[omega minimo]

15. Imagination has gone out of style..........

[Mythsaje]

18. Speak for yourself.

Or do you define "imagination" as "anything I'd think of myself?"

Everything is influenced by what came before it. Everything. Anyone who says differently is either lying or a fool. I readily admit to my literary influences, from Anne Bishop to Stan Lee. Yet my novels have been called "wildly original."

Go figure.

[omega minimo]

27. For a writer, you managed to completely misinterpret my post.

:hi: sorry if it's too ambiguous, but jumping on me is not the answer.

[mojowork_n]

21. Oops, I read that as "Greek" when I clicked.

and I've always been a Hellenophile. (Love those gyro's and chicken kabobs, on pita bread, with the cucumber yogurt sauce.)

Never mind, but maybe someone ought to come up with a proper "-ophile" multi-syllabic word, that would recognize various classes of Geeks. Distinguishing sci-fi and fantasy geeks, from say, history nerds and trivia junkies.

[Skittles]

46. I did too

was gonna threaten to kick some Greek ass :D

[Throd]

22. My name is Throd and I've watched the Lord of the Rings trilogy about 30 times.

[JerseygirlCT]

42. Oh yes. Best movies ever.

I was truly shocked when I saw the first, and I saw what I'd read and read and read - almost yearly - up there on the screen. That's what I saw when I read the books.

I love those books, and I love those movies!

[Jester Messiah]

23. Hear, hear!!

:fistbump:

[distantearlywarning]

24. Kicked and recommended!

:toast: to a fellow geek!

[Uncle Joe]

28. Different strokes for different folks; that's true for virtually everything and yet

people in general like to be part of the crowd; some crowd, any crowd, even cults are crowds.

I believe the alarm arises when a tipping point is reached by a particularly large number of people becoming passionate about any subject or person under the sun, this exposes the people not in tune to those same feelings, thus the alienated ones have vague feelings of resentment or disenfranchisement to not being part of the impassioned group.

This usually results in some religious connotation, inferior level of maturity or lack of intelligence being applied in an adverse manner to the groups positive feelings toward said subject or person.

Live long and prosper, Mythsaje.:thumbsup:

[proteus_lives]

30. Fanboy!

I have collected comics, read sci-fi and watched it all my life! At this very moment I sit at a desk under a huge Marvel poster. For me Wednesday isn't humpday-it's New Comics Day at my LCS. My preferred non-work/non-formal attire is khaki shorts, sandals and a t-shirt featuring a comics logo/sigil/nerd quote/character.

1. I love comics, I have over 20 longboxes worth and growing.
2. My bookshelves are divided into categories. History/Philosophy,Biography,Writing,Horror,Sci-Fi,Battletech,Robert Howard,H.P. Lovecraft,Vampires,Zombies,TPBs.
3. I love horror movies, slasher flicks, B,C and D list movies.
4. I love anime and cartoons. That's right I'm a grown man who loves animation!
5. I've stood in line for hours at movie premieres and cons.
6. I've conversations about the X-Men, Star Trek, Toons,DoD, WoD and others that have lasted for hours!
7. I've had conversations with my friends that were entirely made-up of references,quotes and metaphors.
8. I've walked out of a bar and had a Xian press a Chick Tract into my hand. You know what I said? "Sorry dude, I have already promised my body and soul to the Great Cthulhu who lies dreaming in R'lyeh. ia! ia! ia!"
9. I will discuss the inevitable zombie apocalypse with anybody.
10. I can connect any topic to comics. Try me!

I'm a geek/nerd/dork/spaz/fanboy and I love these meetings of Nerdkind!

In conclusion I say: Excelsior! Up, up and away! Crom! Avengers Assemble! Titans Together! SHAZAM! Imperious Rex! In Brightest Day and Blackest night.....,Thunder! Thunder! Thundercats hooooo! Who rules Bartertown? Kamehameha! Bankai! Katon-No-Jutsu!
And the original nerd chant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBXyB7niEc0

[FloridaJudy]

32. I remember reading an article

About one of the earliest shuttle flights. Someone had arranged for the original cast of Star Trek to meet the astronauts. It was reported that both groups were in such awe of each other, that no one said a word for several minutes.

Blessed are the Geeks, for we shall inhabit the future.

[Withywindle]

61. That makes me choke up a little. In a very good way.

That and the story of how Dr. King personally talked Nichelle Nichols out of quitting, because he thought her work and her character on the show was important.

If MLK wasn't "above" digging Star Trek, then sure as hell no one on this board is either!

[Mythsaje]

63. Do you know the Whoopie Goldberg story?

Something about being a depressed teenager contemplating suicide who turned on Star Trek for background noise, stumbled upon Star Trek, and seeing Uhura functioning as an integral part of that crew. Changed her life.

[lunatica]

33. The definition of normal keeps changing along with human consciousness

Being ahead of the curve means that what you like will be normal as soon as you invent it. The original Star Trek doesn't look like total science fiction anymore with all the communications devices that it spawned. But when it first started none of those cool gadgets existed. Some viewers became inspired by them and proceeded to invent them.

Life does imitate art, and it's better for doing so.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

34. I'm a science geek, NOT a sci-fi geek.

I've known lots of very bright (multiple math/physics/engineering degrees) but immature guys who take Spock as their role model. They are scared of women, scared of dating, scared of commitment, and deny all emotions. A lot of them are very narcissistic and self-centered.

And they LOOOOVE Star Trek.

Think Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons, only not so fat.

[MedleyMisty]

47. I don't think it's light that you're manifesting there.

[proteus_lives]

48. Yeah.

It's a manifestation of something brown and chunky.....

[Manifestor_of_Light]

54. Thank you for that comment.

I'm just stating my experience with men. Some men. Not all men.

So my experience is invalid. I see. :eyes:

[proteus_lives]

56. Your Welcome.

Your experience isn't invalid but your old stereotype/broadbrush is.

The tone of your comment was mocking and smug. Your declaration of "I'm a science geek" reeks of elitism.

[Withywindle]

57. I've had different experiences. let's say.

In college I dated too many men who were good writers (not as great as they thought, of course), but were total jerks to women because they modelled themselves on (misunderstood) Existentialists like Sartre and said if their behavior hurt me, then I was choosing to be hurt, because no person has power over another. There were others who were jerks because they were avid Bukowski fans and affected a jaded, drunken bitterness at the ripe old age of 22 or so. Or took Kerouac's writing to mean that everything (and everyone) is just an experience, to be sampled and then on to the next thing.

Jerks who want to be jerks will twist just about anything to justify their jerkiness (don't get me started on the Rand fans - that doesn't even need any twisting). It's not the original writers' fault. (OK, maybe Rand - but I hesitate to Blame the Woman here.)

Don't forget that Spock is a popular favorite character among people on the Asperger's/Autism spectrum (which includes many bright, geeky people) because they can relate to him, due to their discomfort with and misunderstanding of social cues. Data on TNG, same thing. Note that both are very positive and beloved characters despite their distance from human emotions; they still usually do the right thing, and why shouldn't we look up to that?

I have also found that as they age, SF-nerd guys are some of the very best!

[ljm2002]

35. Heh, I was halfway through your post...

...before I figured out what it was about, having misread the title as "Proud Greek--wanna make something of it?"

I kept trying to figure out what being Greek had to do with what you were saying...

:-)

(very nice post though)

[mojowork_n]

49. You weren't the only one. Posts 21 & 46

One -phile and one -phobe, apparently.

[InvisibleTouch]

38. Proud sci-fi geek here as well.

I've always loved it. Don't let the mundanes get you down. ;)

[Lorien]

39. I prefer the term "mundanes" to Normals", since there really is no "normal"

I suppose "Mainstream conformists" might work well too. Those are the people that do exactly what is expected of them; they enjoy sports, the "right" kind of music, books (if any) and entertainment. They mow their lawns on Sunday and never tolerate a weed to exist. They go shopping for recreation, they wear the proper labels, they take a vacation to their Florida time share every year. Imagination has no place in their day to day lives. It isn't required at work or at home. Works for some, but not for all of us.

[Posteritatis]

88. A few of my friends use the term "civilians" in that context

"Wait, what? You're making Alastair Reynolds references around civilians? No wonder you got those looks.."

It amuses me.

[JerseygirlCT]

40. Well, if that a geek makes, I'll happily join you.

Never much for the comic book stuff. But I loved Star Trek too - for the imagination and the exploration (not the acting!). I still read SF and fantasy - some of the most imaginative stuff I've read - and I read a great deal. (And, btw, I'm proud to have obtained an English degree while avoiding courses in Am Lit... I've never taken to it. The mythology just doesn't grab me. And there are far too many "boy stories". English lit, I'll never tire of - so long as you don't force-feed the 18th century on me!).

I don't really get the distinction between "real" literature and other literature - it's really all subjective. Some of the things that would have been in bookstores as summer reading is now being taught in college classes as lit. What does that make it? Good is good. And often, good is in the eyes of the reader.

And oh yes to the geek vs. the missing link!

(And my kids and I enjoyed the heck out of the Star Trek movie yesterday!)

[Skittles]

43. not a big sci fi or tech fan but I've always loved Star Trek

yes INDEED

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. You know what gets me?

All of these movies are not about the future... oh no sireee, they are about the here and now.

You say that you had some social commentary in your novels? I am not that delusional. Mine are FULL of social commentary, just like Trek was full of it. You see this episode of black face, while face, was a poignant exercise on racism. Then there was this one about the Klingons supporting a group while Star Fleet supported another, oh yeah, can you say the Nam and Cambodia? Oh and Trek was about the US of that time and what Rodenberry saw as a future utopia.

Oh and even the drive may become real... Alcubierre is still working on it.

And the Batman is also full of social commentary, and lets not go into V for Vendetta, or even 300... or Sin City... or for that matter Animal Farm and 1984. Hell, myself I tend to agree with Heinlein and citizenship has to be earned, and have incorporated that into my world. I just don't expect those who don't get it, to get it. IN fact, many miss points made by more "serous" movies all the time anyway, or the "literature" I find in places like Barnes and Noble.

Oh well, I just smile as I edit, this is about the here and now, and just ignore the date..

And yes, one of the sub-plots was torture, another was terrorism... what were you saying about little social commentary?

:-)

And yes, may you live long and prosper...

[Starry Messenger]

51. Nice post!

Science Fiction and Fantasy were my lifeline out of suburban mediocrity and my parents 3 alarm divorce. I picked up the Dragonriders of Pern and the Vor Saga and never looked back. I also loved Terri Windling's Fairy Tale series.

I'm happy to be alive in a time when the genres I like are getting beautiful treatment by cinema and television. They aren't all high art but many are fully entertaining and mesmerizing.

Comic Books and Graphic Novels no one should have to apologize for totally loving. I don't buy and read as much as I used to because of cash and space limitations but I treasure all the ones I have and read. Transmetropolitan and Love & Rockets should be required reading in colleges, IMHO.

And look at that wonderful book The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Klay.



Won a Pulitzer Prize for Literature. I think "normals" give those out. :D

[dysfunctional press]

52. new star trek movie **SPOILER** question...

what was your opinion of them blowing up vulcan and killing spock's mother? or have they plunged into a new timeline, separate from the original story, and IF so- why didn't that happen when they used time-travel and changed history in 'the voyage home'...?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...?

(personally, i had some BIG problems with how they did that...and at the time, i thought they were going to do some kind of time-reversal thing at the end. :shrug:

[Mythsaje]

55. The impact of what Nero did was far more far-reaching than

what they did in ST4. It's one thing to sneak in and off a planet and steal a couple whales. If there's anything to this "many worlds" theory it's not the generally orderly movement of celestial mechanics that spawn new universes, but the choices of the only beings present capable of making decisions--particularly on such an epic scale, one that actually affected celestial mechanics.

This is a particular passion of mine, given that my books are in large part based on it. Call it "temporal philosophy." Human (or sentient) choice is the ONLY thing not governed in major--if not overwhelming--part by solid physical laws. Human choice, at least, changes our world in a way nothing else can.

Thus paradox in time travel is impossible, since going back into the past and changing anything major simply spawns a new timeline, based in part on how it effects the lives and decisions of other people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. A ... level one parallel world

perhaps a level two...

You want to get really geeky with people here?

You too, got bitten by the time bug?

[Mythsaje]

62. I'm interested in the temporal aspects of choice, and sentience.

Many worlds and time travel and human interaction as a part of temporal mechanics.

It makes me crazy that I think about some of the same things as mathematicians, but not in mathematical terms. A kind of philosophy, I guess, is the best way to describe it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. For me right now this is about Quantum Mechanics

and figuring out what happens to a major character who should be dead but is not. Yep, some strange stuff

And it is not the usual but you didn't die, he should be dead. Kind of Heisenberg's kitty... so the time line splits. Been playing with some strange things, that are hard to explain to the uninitiated... even the ever so popular he might be outside the timeline, but can still affect it. Weird stuff indeed

You know what was cool?Went to a sci fi convention, full of writers., and ahem a couple physicists, so we struck a talk on how to develop an FTL and I went into the Brane Drive and how it works in my world. It was cool when one of the guys, working on high end physics, said I MIGHT be onto something... made me blush.

[Mythsaje]

67. I ran across an article somewhere some time back

saying that a mathematician had done the math for something oddly similar to the Star Trek subspace warp drive and it checked out mathematically. Wish I could remember more about it.

Your theory sounds interesting. I've always wondered what would happen if you used a big tuning fork in space. Sure, the sound wouldn't go anywhere, but it would sure as hell affect the fork itself. Different vibrational frequencies would do...what?

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Miguel de Alcubierre, that's who you thinking off

and my drive is based on string theory. Essentially ships translate through a higher brane, to another point in time -space

And yes to emerge at the point of emergence requires a super computer. The distance depends on how far you could calculate it. And yes in theory you could go anywhere in the universe... in practice nobody has that computational power.

[Mythsaje]

79. Nobody? Or no one we KNOW of?

Just askin'

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Well in the world one group could potentially get close

but in reality they don't need ships either after a certain level, but that is another story...

:-)

Think of this, sentient energy that moves across the universe... they have time.. as in really long time

[dysfunctional press]

64. the thing i don't like about a lot of time-travel stories...

is that they don't account for the necessary space travel as well. be it start trek 4, first contact, or 'back to the future', they don't seem to account for the travel of earth, the solar system, and the galaxy, through space. in the 'back to the future' movies, the time travel always maintained the exact same spot on the earth- even though the earth would be in a much different place in the universe than it was in the 1950's or the late 1800's. in addition to travelling thru time, they also need to travel thru space- AND they have to do the completely impossible task of determining just WHERE in space the planet was at any given time in the past. i say 'impossible' because there is no fixed point in the universe for reference and navigation to make that determination.

[Mythsaje]

66. I can't say for time travel

but I was always impressed by Diane Duane's "Young Wizards" series because it actually deals with all of that as an aspect of magical transport. But I think time and space are directly linked, time being a function of distance and movement--celestial mechanics as temporal clockwork. Thus to travel in time, one must also travel in space.

[dysfunctional press]

69. 'to travel in time, one must also travel in space'.

most stories don't account for the space travel part of the equation- and as i said- it would be virtually impossible to determine the point in space where anything was at any given time in the past, anyway. it's also a big reason why i don't take time-travel stories all that seriously.

[Mythsaje]

70. I don't think that's true, actually.

The longer the "distance," the more calculation necessary--to the point it might be impossible to do safely due to variations not entered into the original calculations, but we can do that with some accuracy by calculating the relationship to other celestial objects. Or could, given the computing power.

I don't see why we'd need a fixed point to start from, considering we can move across distance with a great deal of accuracy based on similar calculations.

[dysfunctional press]

72. but it is, actually.

you could calculate where we might have been in relation to other objects- but determining precisely where in space all those other objects would be isn't possible without a fixed point of reference.

think about it as if you were floating in the middle of the atlantic, in a thick fog, surrounded by beach balls- you're drifting with the current and the wind for 2 hours- and then you pull out a pair of oars, and are tasked with returning to the exact spot you were 2 hours earlier...can't be done, with ANY degree of certainty.

now- back to back to the future...part 3. the delorean races along railroad tracks in the 1800's, and when the time-travel occurs- ends up traveling seamlessly along the same railroad tracks in exactly the same earthbound coordinates- even though if you look at it from a universal perspective- those railroad tracks were nowhere NEAR each other at those two different times.

[Mythsaje]

74. I agree with how absurd THAT representation was, given that perspective

but I'm still not sure it's impossible.

[dysfunctional press]

77. think about it some.

most time travel stories involve being taken from one point in time to another pretty much instantaneously(and yes, it should be 'space'-time, but most don't address the space part) and they usually end up in the same geographic point on the earth, if that's where the story takes place... not only would ou have to calculate the earth's EXACT position in the universe, you'd have to know the exact position of those particular coordinates in time AND space. if you were off by 20 feet, you'd be buried underground, or 20 feet up in the air.
and remember- there are NO fixed points to navigate by.

it's all moot, anyway- since it's a fictional concept to begin with.

[Mythsaje]

78. Maybe, maybe not. As far as being fictional.

Scientists say they can't figure out why time should move only in one direction. Time travel should THEORETICALLY be possible.

I understand what you're saying about location... Given velocity, vector, orbital variations, spin, gravitational fluxes, etc... the calculation necessary would be stupendously complex. But given enough data, not outside the realm of possibility. The problem is getting enough data and having the ability to crunch it all.

[Posteritatis]

93. That's not really correct

On timeframes of a mere few decades or centuries nothing would be terribly out of space. A hundred years isn't enough time for the solar system to move a tenth of a light-year, and most of the rest of the neighborhood is going to be on a similar sort of vector around the galaxy anyway.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

53. One thing I like about Star Trek is it brings together a lot of people from all around,

and it also is "a way of life"


Found this a long time ago, before Linux was getting popular.

[Withywindle]

59. Nice post, Data!

Why do we not have a "live long and prosper" smilie? Mods! Mods! I demand it!

[W_HAMILTON]

60. "Geeks" are the majority now.

A few years ago, there was some "geeky" type movie coming out. I can't remember which one. But it turned out to be a blockbuster. Transformers, X-Men, Spiderman, etc. These all get huge followings nowadays.

It's kinda like how video game players used to be looked down upon, but now a majority of people well into their 30s play them.

It's ok if you are a geek :)

[Toucano]

73. There is nothing wrong with you.

Except, of course, you missed the point of the OP you are responding too.

[Mythsaje]

75. All things considered

maybe we didn't so much miss the point as much as the point wasn't very clear in the first place. Given how many people took it the same way.

[Toucano]

76. Touché

You are more correct on that point than I am.

[borelord]

80. Awesome post

But you're so wrong about modern american metal.

But then I'm a metal geek :P (who is watching gummi bears as he types this)

[Mythsaje]

81. No, I'm not.

If you can't sing, shut the fuck up. I'd rather listen to dogs barking to music. Oh, wait. How would I know the difference? Compared to most of it, the most obnoxious thrash from the eighties sounds like Scandinavian symphonic metal.

On edit: Didn't mean to sound so harsh. Not directed at you, but the music. Well, the music is often really good, until the vocals kick in. Ugh.

[Mutley]

83. The crux of your argument:

"I don't expect everyone to love everything I love, or dislike what I dislike."

The TV/book/movie/music flamewars I've seen on DU are the most ridiculous and moronic I've ever seen.

Have you read every Spiderman comic ever written? Awesome!

Do you feel like The Devil Wears Prada is based on your life? Fantastic!

Do you freak out if you miss one minute of American Idol? Great!

Does your heart pound every time you crack open a new Twilight novel? Super!

Seriously, everyone here and anywhere else who argues that THEIR favorite TV/book/movie/music is the ONLY TV/book/movie/music worth a damn needs to get the fuck over themselves.

[Posteritatis]

87. Hey now! That attitude's too sane and mature to be permitted around here!

Start arbitrarily hating on something for wholly subjective reasons right now or I'll send the ninjas!

[BoneDaddy]

97. LOL

absolutely

[BoneDaddy]

96. I am a jock, a drama guy and a geek

Played football and rugby am a tai chi instructor.

Did 8 theatre shows in college and community theatre.

Grew up on Sci-fi and fantasy played Dungeons and Dragons and love video games Star Trek, Star Wars, LOTR and Harry Potter.

What the hell does that make me? lol.