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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:35 PM
Original message
Gun teacher accidentally shot student
PONTIAC, Mich., May 7 (UPI) -- Police said a Michigan concealed weapons teacher accidentally shot a student in the face during a demonstration.

Investigators said the 74-year-old teacher accidentally discharged a bullet from a .38-caliber Smith and Wesson revolver at about 4:30 p.m. Tuesday during a class in Oakland County, WDIV-TV, Detroit, reported Thursday.

The bullet ricocheted off a table and struck a 52-year-old student in the face. The student was taken to Troy Beaumont Hospital to receive treatment for non-life threatening injuries.

The teacher told investigators he thought the gun was loaded with plastic bullets.

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/05/07/Gun-teacher-accidentally-shot-student/UPI-71011241732079/
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why the hell does a firearm class have "plastic bullets" as part of the class!?
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Probably meant snap caps so that they could dry fire the gun.
Regardless, the instructor should have checked and checked again to make sure no live rounds were in the chamber.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I've never thought that dummy rounds or snap caps were a good idea at all. n/t
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I am ambivalent about them...
They can help to protect the firing pin, but they can cause confusion. Regardless, I think that responsible owners understand and practice the rule that EVERY FIREARM is LOADED and take the necessary precautions. I may overdo it (see post 5) but it keeps me and the people I shoot with safe.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. NO F****** KIDDING!
:mad: :mad: :mad:
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. "he thought the gun was"
Some people just can not grasp basic gun safety, even some safety teachers apparently.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Seems like most gun accidents start with "I thought... " when
the reality is that the problem was that they actually didn't think but rather guessed.
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. I thought guns were supposed to make everyone safer.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. No, that's a silly straw-man that only you think anyone believes.
But that doesn't stop you from posting it, apparently.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. An armed society is a polite society...no promises on it being any smarter or more responsible :-p
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Heinlen pulled a lot of things out of his ass, and that was one of them. n/t
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Heinlein reminds me a lot of Ron Paul
He could spin a fair yarn but politically he was an idiot.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. dupe
Edited on Fri May-08-09 05:04 PM by Raskolnik
delete
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. Iraq is armed ... How come they are not polite? So is Mexico
Your argument is false and has no merit
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. Well, in this case, as all others, the guns fire themselves
gun AI is here.

Next up, let's ban cars that get drunk and run over people.

No cars - no drunk drivers.
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. False Logic: Cars do not equal Guns.
People need a car to commute to work. Only Paranoid people need a gun.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. So you say.... How about?
Only the fat, the lazy, and the too stupid to live near their work need car to drive to work.

For couple million years the human race survived without cars.

Of course I am not foolish enough to believe such sweeping statements.
Only one of us is arrogent enough to put our personal beliefs ahead of other peoples rights.
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well there is one teacher who should lose both his certification to teach and his CCW
The rule is NEVER ASSUME, NEVER "THINK" THE GUN IS SAFE. CHECK, CHECK AGAIN, THEN WHEN YOU ARE SURE, CHECK AGAIN!!! Thankfully the student was not killed. Call me crazy, but whenever I handle a firearm I check the chamber. If I am ever transitioning the firearm to someone else, I drop out the magazine, rack the slide several times, lock the slide back, then set it down barrel facing down range. When the person goes to pick it up, I remind them to check the chamber, rack the slide a couple of times just in case a round magically jumps in during the transition. Safety first, safety always. A gun doesn't think so the person handling it always has to.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Ya think? How about some jail time for accidentally blowing a hole in someone's face?
we do have statutes about criminal negligence and the like. accidents resulting in serious injury or death warrant a sterner penalty than 'oops, there goes my license'.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's it, time to ban guns. nt
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. how about, let's ban stupid instead?
NT.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I agree. We should also ban drugs while we're at it.
Edited on Fri May-08-09 04:52 PM by anonymous171
That way no one will use them.
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. how about...
We require everyone to be in hermetically sealed bubbles with their own oxygen supply and feeding system based on nutritionally balanced supplements and ban all human interaction that way no one ever gets hurt again.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I like the way you think!
:hi:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Case in point above
There's always someone to bring up a stupid analogy.
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rollingrock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. 74 years old!
senile much?

:rofl:


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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well if the student were armed maybe he could have defended himse... oh wait...
:P
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I know huh?
At least it provides people with a little entertainment and opportunity to be sardonic though...
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. If only that student had had a gun!!! nt
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
23. recommend -- you never know what a day will bring. nt
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
26. If this can happen during a gun safety class, think about all those armed, paranoid Rambo's
walking around outside. I feel safer already.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. There was another classic case caught on video
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. I guess he just wasn't professional enough.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. He won't ever be teaching again, I hope. Or, frankly,
in possession of a gun! Idiot.

"I thought..." not words you ever want to hear from someone holding a gun.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. "And in other news, Good Humor man slays 10..."
Edited on Fri May-08-09 06:47 PM by Canuckistanian
:rofl:

On edit:
I used that very same subject line in Sept. 07! I found myself on Google!
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sorcrow Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. Shouldn't the student apologize?
Shouldn't the student apologize?

I thought that was SOP when one got shot in the face, or is that just for Texass quail hunting?

Crow
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
34. Rule #1. During jailtime he should be made to hand write these rules a million times.

Firearms safety
Cooper advocated four basic rules of gun safety:
1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
38. 4 rules. live by them always with no exceptions (not even in classroom).
To injure or kill someone (or yourself) you must break at least 2 of the following rules:

The teacher violated not just rule #1 (which would have resulted in a "safe" negligent discharge) but also either rule #2 or rule #4.

I have always (both personally and in military) lived by the rule that firearms are always loaded. Always. Ever heard the sound of 2 turtles f**king? I took my Kevlar off and smashed it kevlar worn by a soldier on firing line who repeatedly pointed his away away from the firing line. His "defense"... it wasn't loaded.

I have seen soldiers, good soldiers shoot "unloaded" weapons into the can. Bases in Iraq have unloading station and once unloaded you fire the empty weapon into a barrel full of sand as a final check.

Col Jeff Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety
RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it;e.g. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance.

All guns are always loaded - period!

This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!"

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)



Rule III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
Rule III is violated most anytime the uneducated person handles a firearm. Whether on TV, in the theaters, or at the range, people seem fascinated with having their finger on the trigger. Never stand or walk around with your finger on the trigger. It is unprofessional, dangerous, and, perhaps most damaging to the psyche, it is klutzy looking. Never fire a shot unless the sights are superimposed on the target and you have made a conscious decision to fire. Firing an unaligned pistol in a fight gains nothing. If you believe that the defensive pistol is only an intimidation tool - not something to be used - carry blanks, or better yet, reevaluate having one around. If you are going to launch a projectile, it had best be directed purposely. Danger abounds if you allow your finger to dawdle inside the trigger guard. As soon as the sights leave the target, the trigger-finger leaves the trigger and straightens alongside the frame. Since the hand normally prefers to work as a unit - as in grasping - separating the function of the trigger-finger from the rest of the hand takes effort. The five-finger grasp is a deeply programmed reflex. Under sufficient stress, and with the finger already placed on the trigger, an unexpected movement, misstep or surprise could result in a negligent discharge. Speed cannot be gained from such a premature placement of the trigger-finger. Bringing the sights to bear on the target, whether from the holster or the Guard Position, takes more time than that required for moving the trigger finger an inch or so to the trigger.

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything you have not positively identified. Be aware of your surroundings, whether on the range or in a fight. Do not assume anything. Know what you are doing.



SUMMARY:

Make these rules a part of your character. Never compromise them. Improper gunhandling results from ignorance and improper role modeling, such as handling your gun like your favorite actor does. Education can cure this. You can make a difference by following these gunhandling rules and insisting that those around you do the same. Set the example. Who knows what tragedies you, or someone you influence, may prevent?
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
39. Schriever man fatally shoots armed burglar
http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20090507/ARTICLES/905079928/1211?Title=Schriever-man-fatally-shoots-armed-burglar

You are about as fair and balanced as Fox. For that matter, IMO you are your kind are using DU for your anti gun agenda and causing division within this community. Over 50% of DU members own guns. Google "gun defense" sometime (I doubt you will) and read up on those who have used guns for self defense if you really want to have a more fair and balanced assessment of gun ownership.


Pistol-packing pharmacist scares away robbers
http://www.myballard.com/2009/05/06/pistol-packing-pharmacist-scares-away-robbers/

Grand jury: city homicide justifiable
http://www.weatherforddemocrat.com/local/local_story_119095415.html

Case cleared' in shooting of dazed intruder
http://www.thecabin.net/stories/042409/loc_0424090005.shtml

My point here is this. I could post a ton of shit about people using guns for justified defense ...maybe I will do that just to counter your anti gun agenda.
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