So the republicans want to look at rendition

[nadinbrzezinski]

all the way back to the Clinton administration. I say go for it. Sure, if there were crimes committed I want then prosecuted. But on one condition... we also take a second byte at Iran Contra... there are plenty of crimes that were committed in your and my name. So yes, they want to go there, fine... lets do it.

Oh and by the way, if Pelosi knew of this, she is complicit... help me here what is the term, oh yes accessory to a crime...

[liberalmuse]

1. I'd be willing to be most here knew of renditions before Bush came into power.

The Bush cabal just did it all in the open, and even tried to sanction it. Still, if the only reason the 'pubs are bringing this stuff up is to sort of blackmail the Dems into not prosecuting for the heinous war crimes committed by their party, and, as it seems, some in ours, I say, bring it on. Shine a blaring, naked spotlight on all of it. Those who are a party to torture, who knew about it and did nothing need to go down with the perpetrators, one and all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. I didn't know of the renditions, but could tell stories from CA

from listening to way too many stories

So yes, I agree, let's do it. And whoever violated US and International law, let's go

And that includes a fair percentage of "our people in DC."

If they were part of the crimes I don't care what letter is behind their names. But I fear we are just going to see this swept under the rug for the same reasons Iran Contra went under the rug: EMPIRE.

[liberalmuse]

8. Still, the Republicans are daft if they think they can prosecute Clinton.

If they want to prosecute for allowing renditions, then they are going to have to go back a long, long ways. Good luck with that. They're blowing smoke up the Dems asses. I think AG Holder can make his reasons very clear why he would go forward with an investigation into Bush crimes without the need to start investigating every fucking crime committed by every fucking president. I think it's fair to say that the Bush crimes go far beyond the pale of anything we've seen before (except for maybe Nixon).

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. And I say if a crime was committed

lets go there... fine... but leave no rock unturned

that will surely tarnish the record of St Reagan and perhaps lead to people like Kissinger and Poppy to finally have to deal with a court.

And if a crime was committed, sure... we are a country of laws after all.

And this is not about a party. If crimes were committed, by all means.

[tomp]

14. i've known since 1967 that the u.s. govt is organized crime.

nothing has changed since then. so many crimes, so little insight.

[Warpy]

3. They need to start with Daddy Bush

He's the one who started the program.

Clinton, to his deep shame, didn't have the brains to end it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Or Empire... the logic of EMPIRE

which mark my words will prevent this from going forwards...

[DCKit]

16. If, instead of Janet Reno, Clinton had appointed someone with a conscience....

and a passing familiarity with the Constitution and Bill of Rights, he may have been able to end the program.

Reno must've been a Roman emperor or Nazi stormtrooper in a previous life and couldn't resist the urge to test her powers to the limit - Elian Gonzales, Ruby Ridge and Waco are her more public accomplishments. But yeah, there were plenty of rumors about extraordinary rendition too, though the ones I'm aware of took place overseas and didn't concern Amur-kins.

After 20 years in the snake pit (DC) you just kind of absorb the "news" through your skin.

[Warpy]

18. Peddle the propaganda elsewhere

Ruby Ridge was on Daddy Bush's watch. Most of Waco was a Daddy Bush plan, meaning the initial BATF commando raid that ensured the outcome. As for the kid, did you really want him to live with that gang of drunks and welfare cheats or with his father and extended family in Cuba?

Shame on you for trying to "absorb the news through your skin" instead of doing even the most basic homework.

Yes, the renditions under Clinton involved people offshore. However, Clinton was lax and they never should have happened, period.

[DCKit]

20. Apologist. n/t

[L. Coyote]

5. George Bush Sr. May Face Charges: Conspiring to Kidnap and Murder Political Activists

Plan Condor: Crimes Without Borders in Latin America
Marie Trigona - 12 Dec 2007 - http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1042/1 /

Former military dictator Jorge Rafael Videla and 16 other military leaders in Argentina will be prosecuted on charges of conspiring to kidnap and kill political activists in a scheme known as Plan Condor, developed by Henry Kissinger and George Bush Sr., head of the CIA at the time. Dictators in Uruguay, Chile, Paraguay, Brazil, and Argentina killed opponents in the 1970s and 80s under the plan, also known as Operation Condor. The United States and Latin American military governments developed Operation Condor as a a transnational, state-sponsored terrorist coalition among the militaries of South America. In Argentina alone some 30,000 people were disappeared as result, leaving loved ones to seek justice decades later.

Coordinating Terror with U.S. support

Plan Condor began with the U.S. supported military coup against Chile's democratically elected socialist president, Salvador Allende. Allende's government was targeted as a threat to U.S. strategic policy in Latin America early on. White House tapes reveal that on Sept. 14, 1970, then-President Richard Nixon ordered measures to force the Chilean economy into bankruptcy. "The U.S. will not accept a Marxist government just because of the irresponsibility of the Chilean people," declared Henry Kissinger, Nixon´s secretary of State.

Declassified U.S. Department of State documents have provided evidence to Plan Condor's broad scope. The Operation was an ambitious and successful plan to coordinate repression internationally. FBI special agent intelligence liason to the Southern Cone countries Robert Scherrer (now deceased) sent the letter to the U.S. embassy in Argentina on September 28, 1976: "'Operation Condor' is the code name for the collection, exchange and storage of intelligence data concerning so-called 'leftists,' communists and Marxists, which was recently established between cooperating intelligence services in South America in order to eliminate Marxist terrorist activities in the area."

The memo also specified Argentina's enthusiasm over the plan. "Members of 'Operation Condor' showing the most enthusiasm to date have been Argentina, Uruguay and Chile. The latter three countries have engaged in joint operations, primarily in Argentina, against the terrorist target." Operation Condor has been difficult to investigate, due to the selectivity of victims and lack of official declassified documents from the CIA and Department of State. Many of the documents that have been released have been heavily censored. However, following an extensive investigation by Argentine courts beginning in 1999 and the decade long work of human rights groups to collect forensic evidence, 17 military leaders will be put on trial for their participation in the illegal persecution of social activists.

............

LOTS, LOTS, and LOTS MORE:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2459135

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Plan Condor is the tip of the fracking iceberg

we both know it.

[stillcool]

7. I'm sure those countries..

will have some say in what will or will not be revealed as well. The proverbial can of worms. Fingers pointing everywhere. But something needs to be done. Another brilliant theatrical display to quell the natives, only this time they really need to get some Hollywood script writers...ala "Wag the Dog"..to make it more believable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Brazil and Argentina had a truth and reconciliation commision

El Salvador and Nicaragua would love to ... prosecute

[Fuzz]

9. But, but, that's in the past! We want to look forward! Why go back to the past?

and all that. . .

[OffWithTheirHeads]

12. IT'S CLINTONS FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where have I heard THAT before?

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Actually you should read the OP

it is REAGAN's fault at the very least, but fair is fair, this practice started a LONG time ago, at least 1945 time frame, so they want to play this game... sure, lets do it. Last time I checked Clinton was not in charge in the 1980s

[mmonk]

15. I have no problem with that.

[spanone]

17. this is a THREAT from the party of nothing....politicizing crime

[rustydog]

19. Rendition IS NOT TORTURE!

The CLUELESS GOP need to help pass medical reform ASAP then get Brain Transplants.
Hint: stay away from Abby Normal brains.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Read on the end effect of rendition

and then come back to me as to exactly what it is

[TriplD]

21. Didn't we already spend $60million on a special prosecutor

to investigate Clinton?

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. This is not about Clinton.

If indeed there were renditions during that administration, fine lets investigate.

I want to also investigate our actions in central america... the ones ordered by one George Bush... and crowd, you know Iran Contra

We want to investigate all illegal actions... sure we can go all the way back to Vietnam and the talks between Nixon and the Vietnamese. Sure, lets go there. Perhaps we can get both Kissinger and Poppy to the docket while we are at it

Fact to our actions as EMPIRE.

See I have no problem in going there... but I am proof positive the GOP will... gee i don't know why...

And as citizens we SHOULD demand this anyway. You want to investigate, regardless of party, the stench of empire includes every administration since oh... 1945... time we face this little factoid. I am sure republicans surely want to go there. NOT.