Single Payer is dead, Employee Free Choice Act is dead, Foreclosure help is dead. Full Speed Ahead

[Better Believe It]

Getting just a little bit annoyed and frustrated?

I am.

Can you tell?

[babylonsister]

1. Links to things that haven't happened? nt

[Better Believe It]

4. I'm afraid these are things that won't happen. However, if you have any

information indicating Congress will act on these three vital measures please post that information along with the credible links.

That would be good news and we can all use that.

Lookng forward to your info.

[babylonsister]

13. Bullshit. You claim everything is dead, you provide the links. nt

[nichomachus]

14. Bullshit back at you -- prove they're alive and kicking n/t

[babylonsister]

17. They haven't been voted on yet. How can I

prove something that hasn't happened? How can you?

[freddie mertz]

46. Do you see any evidence that these policies are going to succeed?

All the recent news--Specter, Baucus' hearing, Schumer's "middle ground," the recent Senate rejection of the mortage reform bill,--all of these suggest that the OP is absolutely right.

And I suspect that you know this yourself, too.

[Better Believe It]

51. Not following the news? The foreclosure aid bill only got 48 votes.

If you need a link let me know.

EFCA probably wouldn't get that many votes if it actually comes up for a vote.

[babylonsister]

52. That's one. And yes, I'm aware of that. What about the rest of your

nonsense? EFCA? Single Payer? Go away with your doom and gloom.

Is there anything you like? If so, I'm not hearing it. Maybe you'd have liked McCain and Palin more.

[Better Believe It]

75. McCain and Palin are also opposed to EFCA and single payer. So what's your point?

[EnoughOfThis]

83. Is dissent illegal now???

I agree with you. These issues are not moving forward as expected. However, my biggest point would be that it is OK for you to raise the issue. We elected this guy to change things and it is OK to question if we are seeing real change. I don't think that anyone has suggested throwing Obama under the bus.....but it is OK to ask if he is keeping his promises. Is that NOT OK anymore??!! I am also concerned that Bush lawyers may only lose their licenses.....maybe....and Bush/Cheney look free and clear. I am not sure that I want Guantanamo inmates released in my neighborhood and given welfare. I don't see Guantanamo closing soon and I don't see us leaving Iraq. I know that we can't expect everything immediately, but some of the signs are a concern. My vote was not a blank check.....I plan to pay attention.

[Ignis]

101. Straw. Fucking. Man. (nt)

[TheWatcher]

145. Straw Poster is more like it.

[Ignis]

151. Well, I don't want to go that far.

Each of us makes mistakes in the heat of the posting moment. Who knows? That poster could re-read the post, realize the logical fallacy now that it's been pointed out, and edit, update, or follow-up with a reasoned response.

[RalphieD]

146. Why the language?

I'm no prude, but if you have a point, can't you make it
without being vulgar?

[Ignis]

150. Your faux outrage has been noted.

I'm glad you took the time during your first 60 posts at DU to criticize my "profane" language. It really shows where your priorities are.

Enjoy your fucking stay. :hi:

[RalphieD]

152. Thanks for proving my point

And proving that you have no point other than using the
"F" word.  It's distracting and unnecessary.  I
guess since you have +1000 posts, that makes you better than
me.

[Ignis]

153. Your ignorance isn't my responsibility.

If you don't understand what the "straw man" logical fallacy is, I suggest you look it up.

:dunce:

I made a point, albeit brief and laced with "profanity." Gasp! Oh my stars and garters!

Did you make a point, other than tsk-tsking at me like a Hall Monitor?

Sorry, but we don't award a Hall Monitor Sash here at DU for superlative Puritanism. But if you stick around long enough, you'll even see adults committing the sin of "Using The Lord's Name in Vain." How will you ever manage to survive that crisis?!?

[RalphieD]

155. Hall Monitor

I know what the straw man is all about, I was simply asking if
you thought it was necessary to use the language.  I didn't
intend on making a federal case out of it, but you see the
need to call me out as some sort of puritan.  I am not looking
to "fit in" around this website.  If I need to use
profanity to do so, then I will always be an outsider.  Maybe
if I "stick around long enough", I can use the big
boy words, huh?

Swear all you want, I don't care.  In fact, it's your
constitutional right to do so and I recognize that.  My
thoughts are that it is unnecessary, but if you want to swear,
go ahead.

[Ignis]

156. I have your permission to swear? Oh yay!

Perhaps if you worried less about "fitting in" at "this website" and disguising the fact that you're an "outsider," and worried more about helping to bring this country back from the brink of financial, ecological, and moral destruction where the Republicans have led us, your posts would be more interesting.

I suppose I should just count myself lucky that you didn't say, "Think of the children!" :rofl:

Just think of profanity like Tabasco: You don't really need it in your jambalaya, but damn it improves the flavor!

[RalphieD]

157. What's your problem?

When I originally asked if you thought it necessary to swear,
you could have simply said "yes".  Fine, whatever. 
I really don't care.  And if I was so worried about
"fitting in", I would just spout off some one-liners
laces with profanity and throw in some emoticons.

Quit being an infant and have a discussion.

[Ignis]

159. Don't ask stupid questions...

And you won't get answers that make you cry. :hi:

Look back at your original question, and let me know exactly how necessary it was, and how much it contributed to the discussion in this thread.

And then let me know how that foot tastes.

[RalphieD]

160. Whatever

Apparently this is just going to be a back and forth insult
contest.  Fine.  You win.  Later.

[Ignis]

161. Glad to see you're big enough to admit you were wrong.

Have a nice fucking day! :hi:

[Grinchie]

114. Wow BabylonSister, this is the first time you've resorted to Strawman.

Normally I agree with you on your views, but as far as for your posts on this topic, I tend to lean toward the pessamistic view the OP presented.

Maybe it's just the fact that so many criminal acts have been given such little emphasis, and the media keeps pronouncing Single Payer Healthcare "Not on the Table" and "No way", while proponents explode en masse when the media reports such things.

We all know that Single Payer is a necessity, but the media and big pharma and insurance are getting the airwaves, while we get a few bullhorns and get ignored.

Maybe you are right, but if you have more, concrete information to share with us, please do so, and spare us the strawman arguments...

[Better Believe It]

149. It only got 45 votes. My mistake.

[Political Heretic]

67. Because I can read. And I follow the news?

EFCA isn't going to come to the floor because it lost the votes it needs to pass. Democrats defected, not just Specter. This was sort of in the news... a lot.

[Political Heretic]

64. That's pretty disingenuous.

I've posted plenty of links about the demise of EFCA. The foreclosure relief DID get voted on and died. Single payer, Press Secretary Gibbs says "if that was a good idea it would have been done already."

[Leopolds Ghost]

135. Sounds like Press Secretary Gibbs is telling us the Admin is against Single Payer.

Because "if that was a good idea we would have done it!"

[bobbolink]

100. Ah, yes, more good ole' "progressive" love for others.

:wtf:

And a friendly "BULLSHIT" back atcha.

[axollot]

88. HINT: Listen to Bernie Sanders {D} Vermont - Dems are....

....working on these issues, strongly and with real legs. The vids are on DU for starters listen to what he has to say and which committees he is on.

Bernie ROCKS!
Cheers
Sandy

[DaLittle Kitty]

98. Watch THIS And You WILL Understand Just WHY These Vital Issues Will NEVER PASS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBJAkCjjz1Y

Just a couple minutes of truth from a knowledgeable and passionate former candidate... :woohoo:

[DaLittle Kitty]

99. Reason WHY None Of These Vital Issues Will EVER Pass!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBJAkCjjz1Y Just the Simple Truth!!!!! Directly and Well Said... To delete is to deny the truth!

[Tyrfing]

50. Thats the point

they haven't happened

[Raineyb]

65. And at this rate they aren't going to. n/t

[JDPriestly]

2. FISA disclosure is dead. (We aren't even told whether they

were just eavesdropping on everyone or only on a select few and if only a select few how they chose who to spy on.)

Prosecuting torturers seems to be in intensive care and declining rapidly.

Change, but in what direction?

[Leopolds Ghost]

137. Because they are still doing it -- it's now illegal to reveal to the public who is being spied on

Since the spying has been legalized by Congress, there is no reason to.

[Dogmudgeon]

3. None of these are dead

They have all encountered "resistance".

And guess who can help break down this "resistance"?

--d!

[Better Believe It]

9. "And guess who can help break down this "resistance"? President Obama?

That would help.

However, I don't think that President Obama supports single payer, he didn't campaign for the Senate foreclosure relief bill and hasn't done anything since becoming President to push for passage of the EFCA.

So in order to break down Wall Street/Corporate control over Washington, D.C., a huge movement could as you suggest "break down" Senate resistance.

I was happy to see the single payer advocates make their points at the Senate hearing. It would even be better if progressive organizations had a thousand or more people outside protesting the refusal of the Senate committee membership to permit a single payer representative to participate in the hearing.

[Dogmudgeon]

19. I was thinking more along the lines of -- "US"

Most people -- most of us DUers -- don't even pick up the phone or send e-mail, so street protesters are not going to make much of a difference except to the TV cameras.

There have not been any significant grassroots events or sufficiently well-coordinated organizational activity to do anything so far -- most of that went into getting Obama elected. It should not be very difficult to regenerate some of those relationships and efforts -- independently of the White House, if need be.

It's only been about 110 days, and it's still early in the 111th Congress. This time, perhaps WE should get more involved.

--d!

[freddie mertz]

47. You are right that it is up to us...

But it is also true that we have been poorly served by our Democratic party on all of these issues, at least so far.

One point does not contradict the other.

And the first requirement is to get beyond the "Obama will take care of it for me" way of thinking.

Dissent is the first step.

[kenfrequed]

54. I call frequently.

I call and email my representative and senator (should be senators but Coleman is still being an ass-hat) frequently. When I realize that might not cut it I call other peoples congress critters. I even call republicans sometimes to put them on notice.

Please don't tell me what I am not doing. Numbers are posted here all the time as are addresses and email lists and I think a fair number of us do actually work hard at it. We could always work harder of course but I think we need to spend more time flogging our reps than ourselves.

[Fire1]

70. How do you know that "most of us DUers don't pick up the

phone or send e-mail?" What source provides your data????

[rucognizant]

103. Damned straight!

This time, perhaps WE should get more involved.
There isn't one bit of factual information so far on these comments! I was hoping to learn what was going on as my life is too busy to hang on the internet or sit and watch cspan.
I have just made 6 calls to congress. I am lobbying for a complete overhaul of SS...... I don't get enough I am working harder than I did at 35, with far more relevance,I have a grant but that's just for PR, and I had to spend all my SS income in 2 days ( catching up with bills)_ wondering how I will get through the next 25 days without cash....will need to buy canvas stretchers, printer ink.....etc etc.
To my horror..............The House Ways & Means COmmittee- chairman Charles Rangel: subcommittee on SS chair Tanner from Tenn, 3 TEXANS.......NO NEW ENDLANDERS OR EAST COASTERS, no wonder it is so screwed up.
They say there is little or no inflation......if instant mashed increase- $1.39 - $2.39 in ONE YEAR isn't inflation WHAT IS?

[Leopolds Ghost]

136. And Obama supports FISA surveillance and opposes the right of poor New Orleans residents to return

What can ya do? :shrug:

[PassingFair]

40. Blue Dogs and New Dems?

:sarcasm:

[alberg]

55. We need a cell phone revolution!

When I heard about the Senate hearing on the John Dean conference call, I called Baucus' office and told him we need the "Public Option" passed as part of the Healthcare Bill. this is what Dean is recommending and how I believe it is politically possible to get to Single Payer. But whether you agree with the Public Option approach or believe we can push to go straight to single payer - here's the thing - we can't get there by typing alone. In the absence of a massive healthcare protest on the streets of DC (by the way, I can't understand why we're not doing this?) we need direct and sustained action by the thousands of folks here at DU. So, here's what I suggest. Take out your cell phone and program the direct phone numbers of the key Senators who will ultimately determine what kind of health care we get. This list should include everybody on Baucus' committee as well as your own state senators and perhaps a few others. Now, here's the good part. Call these fucker's repeatedly until we get what we want! If every body on DU does this it will be like a virtual massive DC demonstration right inside the Senate offices! (See, this is more effective than typing messages to each other because the Senators are not on DU reading our comments)

The Cell Phone Revolution! Push the button Spock!

[wroberts189]

5. Lets hope we are just seeing things and keep drinking.

That's how I deal

[MrMickeysMom]

6. Okay, you want I should act like Belushi in Animal House???

Single Payer - DEAD?

Employee Free Choice Act - DEAD?

Foreclosure help - DEAD?

Well.... NO ONE tells us what to do until WE SAY!

NOW WHO'S WITH ME?

YEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

[JVS]

11. So when can you move to D.C.?

[MrMickeysMom]

16. They'd have to invent a new street with a different letter...

... definitely not "K" :-)

[xchrom]

7. recommend

[tabatha]

8. The honorable Dr Dean said single payer is not dead.

[Better Believe It]

10. That's good to hear.

Now let's hear Dr. Dean push it everytime he's interviewed by the media.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

121. He did the other day on The Ed Show

But I guess you didn't see that.

[AtomicKitten]

34. He did and he's doing something about it. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

12. Congress. Congress. Congress. Congress.

The legislative branch; senate and house.

Write some letters, send some faxes, be a citizen in this participatory democracy.

Replacing Bush with Obama was just part of the solution.

The wonderful thing is that we have a president who won't stand in the way.

:patriot:

[Better Believe It]

53. E-mails, phone calls and faxes? You gotta be kidding.

That simply doesn't work.

I agree with other postes that direct action at the grass roots is required.

The bigger that actions, the better.

If the labor movement together with other progressive forces had a huge march on Washington demanding passage of EFCA, single payer, etc., that would have a thousand times more impact than e-mails.

However, I'm not objecting to faxes and e-mails if that's not a substitute for mass actions.

[NYC_SKP]

73. Whatever works.

Speaking for the millions of people who cannot afford the time or expense to travel to a huge march, and given the overwhelming challenges to organize such an action...

...hundreds or thousands of emails, letters, calls, etc., are quite a valid approach.

So, no, I'm not kidding.

:P

[Grinchie]

118. Sorry, emails are too easy to exploit. See "Spam King"

As a former IT Professional, I have seen how messed up the Email system is. It is great for passing around information, but it is also an easy and cheap way to use a shotgun to blow out opinions all ovr the country with minimal cost.

Email sources are easy to spoof, and many congressmen have spam filters that most likely discard 99.9 percent of every email they get.

The Internet is too anonymous, to open, and easily exploited by people with the motivation to sway policy.

This serious flaw needs to be addressed if the citizenry wnats to be included in real time decision making in our government.

And no, Twitter is not the answer. If anything, it makes matters worse by fragmenting the message into a million discrete parts.

[femrap]

112. I think it's best to go to the source

of the problem....that would be the Corporations. Pick a huge Insurance Company and hammer them with protests, letters, boycotts, etc. Pick a bank....Citi or B of A and do the same.

After all these are the dudes telling Obama what to do.

[Double T]

15. Why, YOU are describing business as usual.

Ancient chinese proverb: Da moar dings achange, da moar dae aremain asame. American Dilemma: The ship is continuing to take on water captain; should we keep bailing out or quit and become shark bait?

[bvar22]

18. Hey, we got the stem cell thing.....

.....so stop being a Debbie Downer.
:party:

[Dr.Phool]

20. Correction: We're dead.

I just checked our pulse, and the prognosis is negative.

[Danger Mouse]

21. Have you been calling your congresspeople and Senators?

Cause Congress is most of the problem.

[NYC_SKP]

125. No, apparently that doesn't work for some of us.

Better to post on DU and reject actively participating, I guess.

In reply to my comment, "Congress. Congress. Congress."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5602250&mesg_id=5603507

:shrug:

[upi402]

22. lol, SHOCKED! shocked I tell you

There's no opposition to corporatism. The media is a propaganda organ, and folks are easy to fool.

Epic fail.
I'm composting now...

[babylonsister]

23. Wow. Keep recommending. We'll have an idea of who's here for

what reason. :eyes:

[leftstreet]

24. Add my K&R. Supporting fellow DUers in their anger and frustration...

...nothing wrong with that.

[babylonsister]

26. About what? See # 17. Who knows the future? nt

[leftstreet]

27. They haven't 'voted' on single payer because single payer isn't an option

Foreclosure help did die.

Several Hedge Fund Democrats are backing off EFCA.

Anyone can be annoyed and frustrated about it.

:shrug:

[babylonsister]

28. There's not even a plan yet. Your cart is before the horse. nt

[leftstreet]

30. "There's not even a plan yet"

That could be part of the problem

[babylonsister]

31. Ugh. Just ugh. nt

[freddie mertz]

48. Why are you denying the obvious?

Did you even see the video of the hearing yesterday?

Unless WE speak out, directly and to all comers, and FORCE them to change their plans, that committee clearly intends to shut down any discussion of single-payer.

[JoseGaspar]

37. Making a list?

Checking it twice?
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice?

"We'll have an idea of who's here for what reason."

Who is "we"?
Is it you and the elves?

[TheMachineWins]

93. Show me your papers!

The Homeland has you on the list! LOL.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. Who's 'we'?

You and Tailgunner Joe? or are you speaking for the admins here? Are you going to name names? Are you now or have you ever been critical of politicians?

[SammyWinstonJack]

60. .

:evilgrin: :thumbsup:

[blindpig]

45. Hmm, lists....

This place is gonna kill me from an overdose of irony.

[freddie mertz]

49. Have you got 17 "socialists" yet?

:puke: :patriot:

[Political Heretic]

68. Just for that I'm giving this a rec. Fuck the brown shirts.

[Forkboy]

86. K&R on principle. Your post here is fucking sad.

[bread_and_roses]

106. on that note, I'll K&R. the OP looks like a realist to me

I can see nothing on the horizon to make me any more optimistic than the OP. When it comes to the $$$, to reigning in our Corporate Masters, we get crumbs of "hope," they get all the cake. Obama has shown no sign of any more than symbolic resistance to date. I'll be thrilled to be wrong. More than thrilled.

(I've no idea what you mean about "what reason - I come here for LBN, to see what the buzz is, for a break, for a two-minute vent.)

[Truth2Tell]

143. Wow just wow. Respect lost. nt

[Forkboy]

158. Big time. It's getting sad watching good people turn into what they just got done fighting.

[PHIMG]

25. Hold them accountable

Keep fighting. Never surrender.

When the people lead, the leaders will follow.

This country belongs to us not the bought-off politicians.

[babylonsister]

29. Who's "them" in your mind? I can't wait. nt

[bobbolink]

116. That burr under your saddle is obviously in need of some intensive treatment.

[AtomicKitten]

32. I expect you'll go eat some worms now.

When I predict the future, I usually go with a more optimistic view of the world until I have an actual reason not to be.

[firedupdem]

33. Yeah...you always are. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

35. You have been annoyed and Frustrated since day one.....

So I'm not sure what his new here?

In fact, the only thing you do here is post hit pieces against President Obama
on every single subject there is.

So yeah.....it is easy to tell what you are about. Transparent, in fact.

[berni_mccoy]

69. Amen. I'm tired of the bashers posting baseless crap.

[ima_sinnic]

36. add to that: prosecution & jail time for torturers is dying

before it barely got off the ground.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. Yeah, murder and torture are fine with the administration

but gay folks in love, now that sets them off into a flurry of verbiage about God and morality. Oh yes! Waterboarding is just a policy, killing kids to get 'intel' is divine, but love? That is where their God draws the line. They get in an uproar, start up discrimination programs, praise the haters, invite them to places of honor. They forgive tortre, but they hold gay families in contempt, all for this 'faith' they claim, the faith of the Waterboard, of St Cheney.

[bread_and_roses]

108. add to that still dismembering and incinerating children

in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

[lostnotforgotten]

38. A Good List That Epitomizes Many Of The Frustrations Some Of Us Have With Obama

eom

[Mari333]

39. and we have unending WAR WAR WAR with no exit

I know how you feel.

[LWolf]

41. What I can't figure out

is why you, or anyone else, thought it would be any different.

It's been crystal clear to me for more than a year that we would not be achieving any of those worthy goals.

[SammyWinstonJack]

61. Exactly.

So not surprised in the least.

[Junkdrawer]

43. Most Americans are easily fooled...Monied special interests are not...

Politicians are trying to please both. Guess who gets the fuzzy end of the lollipop.

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. Fooled? Who promised single-payer healthcare?

:shrug:

[BlueJac]

56. The lobbyists are not dead....

they call all the shots.

[RalphieD]

58. Give them a chance

How quickly you are to throw Obama to the wolves.  He hasn't
been in office for barely 3 months and you are already
bitching!  He has done more than any other president in
history, but I guess that's not good enough for you.  What did
you think?  Would he wave some kind of magic wand and erase
everything Bush did in an instant?

[SammyWinstonJack]

62. Really?

"He has done more than any other president in history.." Really? :wow: :silly:

[RalphieD]

81. Yes, REALLY!

 - He saved our economy from complete failure.
 - He is closing Guantanamo Bay.
 - He finally released the memos that proved Bush and company
tortured human beings.
 - He is creating millions of green jobs.

I could go on, but it's probably wasted on a Freeper like you.
 Go back to watching Faux News.

[winyanstaz]

92. Well I for one would like to see more of what he has done....

Because as far as I can see, the economy is still collapsing. We have not even gotten into the credit crunch and Banks are still folding.
Guantanamo Bay is not closing..it is just changing locations..maybe
We already knew Bush and co were torturing.
I don't see the jobs yet.

In the meantime, here is the list I would like to see worked on.
Health care that we can afford.
Saving the hundreds of thousands that are losing their homes.
An end to the endless wars.
Bringing our National Guard HOME where they are supposed to be to help Americans in time of need.
A restoration of our Constitution
The end of the Patriot acts and the Military Commissions act.
The end of using bloody murdering bastard mercenaries in our country and overseas.
An end to outsourcing.
A trial for Bush and co.
and JOBS.

I am not giving up on Obama, its much too soon to stop thinking he might make a difference. I just want to see real things happening that will save America.

[iandhr]

59. I know some one

who is the secretary of his local Teamsters union he told me that he thinks Free Choice Act Will pass

[AlbertCat]

63. Dead huh?

So none of these things can be reintroduced later? With a different Congress? They are never to rise again in the next 4 to 8 years?

Interesting.

So now what are we supposed to do? Go home and pout?

[natrat]

66. its all good baby

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they are flown in the next war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

[NYC_SKP]

78. How clever.

Did you write that? :eyes:

[natrat]

104. what's clever about that, maybye your just an idiot

[NYC_SKP]

123. Well, now you're just showing off!!!! You're like superty-duperty triple-thick extra special clever!

And a bit rude.

How dooooo you do it?

:rofl:

[L0oniX]

71. Lets face it. Our government is in the back pockets of the MIC, Banks and insurance sociopaths.

They only care about the campaign money needed stay in office and future jobs as high paid lobbyists. The only way to beat them is to mass protest in the streets and bring the country to a stand still like what they do in France. Nothing ever really changes much by voting. We only end up with what seems like the lessor of two evils. We didn't get civil rights by voting. We didn't get the right for women to vote by voting. We didn't end the Vietnam war by voting. We have to fight to get what we want and need for this country and voting isn't going to work.

[yurbud]

72. Your rep and senators have offices near you--physically GO to them. Find addresses at LINK:

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/index.html

[WI_DEM]

74. No, I'm very happy with my president and what he has done and accomplished in such a short

time.

[Better Believe It]

76. Card-check may be stripped from "Card Check" Employee Free Choice Act bill !!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8393326

[Brgotn]

110. That would be

a good thing. I don't see the need to go to a that isn't secret opening the window for intimidation if your coworkers knew how you voted.

[blindpig]

111. scab. n/t

[JVS]

120. No it wouldn't be a good thing. You already need to get the cards before a certification election.

Current process is: Union collects cards, union presents cards, company tries to fire and or intimidate those who have signed cards, secret election occurs among the post firing and intimidation work force

New process: collect cards, present cards and be recognized.

[Better Believe It]

77. DELETED DUPLICATE POST

DELETED

[Fire1]

79. According to AFL-CIO Legislative Director Bill Samuel,

moving forward on this bill will probably happen when Franken is seated. NAM is ferociously fighting this bill and not even open to compromise, so we desperately need calls and e-mails to congress. As far as grass root efforts, it seems to me that the unions would be the ones organizing. Lets find out from THEM why protests aren't happening.

[Better Believe It]

82. I agree they should protest. But they don't want to alienate their "friends" in the Senate

Is seems to me that true "friends of labor" would welcome and encourage big and visible labor organizing activity in support of EFCA.

Organizing at the grass roots is the only way big and progressive changes can be achieved. That's always been true.

[Kingofalldems]

80. Repubs and Blue Dogs blocking these bills

[Dawgs]

84. Less than four months in and you're already giving up?

I'll make sure to bookmark your OP so I can refer to it when these things get passed.

[dionysus]

90. he gave up last nov 4th...

:rofl:

[hangman86]

85. It's only been 3 1/2 months.

A lot can happen in 4-8 years. If you think America is going to change into a liberal oasis even within Obama's first term, then you're in for a great deal of disappointment. I know it's hard to stand by and watch people still suffering from almost 30 years of Reagan and Bush policies, but the important thing is that ever since 2005 this country has been gradually moving to the left (even if it's not as fast as some would like) and better times are ahead of us.

And why are so many people so bent on getting single-payer right away. Let's take it one step at a time and first get basic universal health care for this country.

[Better Believe It]

107. As President Obama explained, a lot can happen in the next four years.

And not all of it or even much of it will necessarily be positive.

As Obama himself pointed out, if the economy is not much better in 2012 than it is now he will not be re-elected President of the United States.

Almost all political analysts agree that most significant legislative proposals will need to be passed this year while President Obama still has strong popular support. That would include EFCA (which is why the labor movement wants it introduced sooner rather than later), Medicare for All, a new stimulus bill that is entirely focused on creating badly needed public works jobs and a meaningful foreclosure relief bill.

I don't think we can wait until after the 2010 or 2012 elections. We need these programs now! And don't assume that the Republican Party won't gain more seats in Congress in 2010 and 2012 and perhaps even regain control of the White House in 2012.

So what do we do about it?

I think the people/organizations that demonstrated at the Senate hearing on health care are on to something.

We need a lot more of that and really big events, meetings, demonstrations, rallies, etc.,in support of legislation and presidential action most of us on DU support.

[LaPera]

87. Coprorations run our lives & government - It will only get worse - we are only peasants.....

soldiers and consumers in the eyes of the republicans & corporations and Obama better tow the line or he and the democrats will be crushed...

The corporations run & own it all, we knew it was inevitably going to happen some day in our lifetime....

Well, now it's here and the corporations will not give an inch only demands for more...too big (and getting bigger) to fail!

[blindpig]

95. Buck up!

If we stop depending on politicians utterly beholden to the elite and take matters into our own hands they cannot stop us. We must have faith in ourselves.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[change_notfinetuning]

91. They may not be dead, but all hope is on life support. n/t

[LaydeeBug]

94. Obama was never for single payer health care. His wife is too entrenched in the industry.

This was never part of his plan, and thus, why he was not my first choice, although I support him now.

But single payer was a done deal when he won the primary. NEITHER of the general election choices supported this, so the outrage is a bit confusing. :shrug:

[Leopolds Ghost]

138. Michelle Obama was a health care industry official?

What's sickening is to hear Press Secretary Robert Gibbs say "if single payer was a good idea, we'd have done it"

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joanne98]

97. Not dead yet but not alive either. I'm holding my anger back till I'm sure

Then I'm going to be SO FUCKING PISSED!

[pleah]

102. K&R

[Duer 157099]

105. Then there should be PLENTY of free time for torture prosecutions!!! n/t

[JVS]

109. That would be the most awesome stick and carrot move ever.

"Well if you don't want to work on getting everyone healthcare, we can move on to seeing who among you is culpable for war crimes."

"Ok, now that we've done that healthcare thing, how about this DOMA? Ohh, I see, perhaps we should look into the torture"

and so on

[lsewpershad]

113. I'm withyou

Frustrated lik hell and disgusted that WE elected these pricks.

[cloudythescribbler]

115. Some Strategic Suggestions on these three issues

(1) Single Payer -- Obama never promised this in the presidential campaign. But if (Democratic) members of Congress at least accepted the principle that whatever health reforms are adopted NOW should be COMPATIBLE to later expansion/transformation into single payer, that would be a major plus; along the same lines, the feds should be pressed to commit themselves to putting in at least the same finance as they do to the present system for any STATE that opts to have a statewide system of single payer, at least one that meets certain requirements or guidelines.

This at least would help pave the way for single payer further down the road, which frankly, is about the best that can be accomplished

(2) EFCA -- in the Senate THIS year, ALL the provisions of EFCA OTHER THAN card check should be passed without alteration. Then, there should be efforts to negotiate the card check provision. If something passes that is watered down, the Democratic leadership could have an understanding that, if Dems gain in 2010, the card check provision could be tightened up from a compromise made PROVISIONALLY now. (Also, many other labor reforms, like repeal of 14b of Taft Hartley, have waited for generations, and many of these could now be pushed successfully)

(3) Foreclosure is an open issue, now being reconsidered by the Senate. In the near term (this term in Congress) there are alternative ways to address foreclosure that the blue-nose Democrats (I like the term better than 'blue dog' Democrats) might be more willing to accept. The idea of having to go to court or face the threat of it, to haggle over each and every mortgage foreclosure is a nightmare for the big banks, but there are many other ways to help homeowners deal with foreclosures, including authorizing more presidential power in this area for TARP recipients. Indeed, banks receiving FURTHER funds could be required, for those monies, to buy up foreclosing mortgages from other banks to avert foreclosure, thus indirectly impacting even foreclosures from nonTARP banks

[blindpig]

117. So, you would accept defeat and declare victory.

Because that would be the net result of your 'strategy, all would slide down the memory hole while the party and administration would say that they had delivered. Another variation on keeping the powder dry.

[Tyrfing]

128. What "political reality" is it this time?

<i>This at least would help pave the way for single payer further down the road, which frankly, is about the best that can be accomplished</i>

After a while it stops being believable that the things people seem to overwhelmingly want and vote for just aren't practical or are too ambitious or need to be pursued "incrementally". The "opposition" is a joke, so what is the excuse?

And thats the thing, all we've got are excuses, and "plan B" gameplans like what you just provided.

Maybe electoral and legislative politicking amounts to barking up the wrong tree?

[ecstatic]

119. So lame...

All complaints, no solutions or even patience for those who are trying to come up with solutions. :eyes:

[Better Believe It]

122. The solutions are clear and obvious. Do you have better ones?

I'm listening.

Single payer Medicare for All solves the healthcare crisis.

Do you have a better one?

The EFCA card check bill will enable millions of workers to organize a labor union free of employer harassment, intimidation and will require employers to seriously negotiate with the unionized workers or be faced with compulsory arbitration.

What alternative realistic solution do you propose?

The Durbin foreclosure relief proposal only had the backing of 48 Democratic Senators. But, it would have made a difference.

What alternative solution have you come up with?

All of the above solutions/proposals impact mainly working people and yet you put down the failure to pass these badly and urgently needed reforms as mere complaints!

Perhaps these issues don't impact your life and therefore are of little or no importance to you.

[Tyrfing]

129. Are your "solutions"

as effective as the ones we've been seeing for the last 40 years? Thats alot of patience you know..

[leftofthedial]

124. holding torturers accountable for their crimes against humanity is dead

beyond annoyed.

definitely frustrated.

this country is owned by someone with a vile agenda.

[tonycinla]

126. Credit Card reform????

It is going to be more than a year,07/2010,before the consumer friendly credit card reforms kick in.However today I received the "bank friendly" credit card reform notice from BOA.Cash advances,transfers etc. will now cost 4% of the transaction rather than 3%.Obama and Hillary both sided with the credit card companies in a reform a year or so ago.The country is run by big business and big (business friendly) business.Liberals will NOT be happy once we get national health care .The vested interests in this country will not go silently into the night and Obama and his team will not defeat them.

[Butch350]

127. Better Believe It or Chicken Little!

[gardenista]

130. Thanks to this thread, we are negotiating a new 3.75% interest loan

on our home. The reason why? The "Keep Home Affordable" program, brought to you by President Obama and his amazing team.

"Foreclosure help is dead"? We were not close to foreclosure, but my husband lost his job a couple of weeks ago, and we were upside down on our loan, having lost the full 20% downpayment when the value of our home plummeted. We paid our mortgage on time, but we could see trouble ahead, and because we were upside down, it was very disheartening to pay all that interest.

So thanks for this thread, thanks to you I researched exactly what kind of foreclosure help was there for us. And found it. So, it's not dead. Sorry.

[flyarm]

131. I think you found a genie in a bottle..where may i ask did you get 3.75??????

My hubby and i have been trying to help our kids get a better rate and top people we are working with got us a rate of 5.25 and we were told by our finance people that that is the best rate they have heard of ..so where did you get your genie??????? Inquiring minds would like to know that one!!

[Better Believe It]

139. Here's links on the "Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan,"

Here's two links on the government program, poster gardenista made reference to.

http://www.treas.gov/initiatives/eesa/homeowner-affordability-plan/HousingExampleSheet.pdf

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/09/02/18/Help-for-homeowners/

[HCE SuiGeneris]

132. It would be of great service to me if you could

PM me with the route you followed in securing the refi. I am in about 130% as well after putting the same 20 % down... I feel like i am drowning.

Thank you in advance for any help.

[Better Believe It]

134. Thank you! I'm glad my thread encouraged you to seek help that is available to you.

Since you were totally unware of the "Keep Home Affordable" plan until you read this thread, I assume you were/are also unaware of Senator Durbin's legislative proposal to assist homebuyers in even greater need of help than you and your husband. That would explain your confusion regarding the Senate legislation when you wrote "it's not dead".

The Senate bill was designed to help millions of homebuyers who are in real danger of foreclosure. I'm happy to hear that you "were not close to forclosure" and that you were able to adjust your mortgage. That's wonderful. But, please don't forget about those millions who are not as fortunate as you and your husband and who do urgently need judicial relief from foreclosure threats that Senator Durbin's proposal provided for.

Here's information on how that forclosure relief legislation was rejected by the Senate. Only 45 Senators voted in favor of help for homeowners!

Senate Millionaires Kill Mortgage Assistance for Citizens
by Michael Collins
May 1, 2009

The United States Senate took a swipe at the spirit of May Day in a spectacular show of callous indifference when it voted down a bill to provide limited assistance to citizens at risk for losing their homes. The final vote was 45 in favor, 51 opposed to Senator Richard Durbin's (D-IL) mortgage assistance bill. The original version of the bill covered some but not all of those requiring assistance. The final version was even more restricted. It applied to only homeowners currently in foreclosure as a result of actions prior to the start of 2009.
The denial of assistance to citizens by Senators is ironic given the fact that the origins of the current economic crisis came from Senate legislative actions in 1999 and 2000.

The Durbin bill offered a reasonable change in bankruptcy law that would allow those in foreclosure to ask (simply ask) bankruptcy judges to invoke a "cramdown." In that process, the bankruptcy court would set a lower interest rates and longer terms on loans. This takes the case out of foreclosure and allows citizens to keep their homes and the lets banks collect the money owed at a lower rate over an extended period. (See this for a real cramdown to benefit all citizens)

The Durbin bill provided limited options since it presumed that homeowners at risk had the money to get in bankruptcy court; that the courts would be able to handle all those in need; and that the judge would accept the request for a cramdown to keep people in their homes. But the bill might have helped as many as 1.7 million homeowners.

Even with those limitations, Sen. Durbin was forced against the wall and had to negotiate the bill to a lower level of protection. The final bill rejected by the Senate. Associated Press reported: "The latest proposal would have restricted eligibility to homeowners already in foreclosure whose lender had not offered better terms. Homes would also have to be worth less than $729,000 and apply to mortgage loans originated before 2009." Apr 30, 2009

You can read the complete article at:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/THROW-THE-BUMS-OUT--ALL-O-by-Michael-Collins-090501-34.html

After researching this legislation, I'm sure you'll agree with me and not those Republicans and other other conservative Senators who voted against Senator Durbin's proposal.

[HughMoran]

133. Well, here we go again

Predictable behavior...

[scentopine]

140. Chaimberlain is negotiating with the insurance cos

and will soon announce that a great treaty has been signed for health in our time!

No doubt the inevitable outcome of this treaty will be the insurance companies screwing us all over like the wall street banks. And there will be plenty of back slapping and tax payer money and amnesty to make it all go away.

Damn. History is so repeatable.

[ProSense]

141. Dodd's bill to prevent mortgage foreclosure passes

Dodd's bill to prevent mortgage foreclosure passes (updated)

Tom Harkin aims for Arlen Specter EFCA compromise

Is this one of those threads people are rec'ing because it's wrong?

[Better Believe It]

142. The vote was 91 to 5 for passage. Why did Republicans back this bill?

Since this bill had the overwhelming backing of Republicans and conservative Democrats I assume that so-called "cramdown" and other provisions objectionable to Wall Street and banking interests were not included in this bill.

Is that correct?

Having had time to read the entire bill as you have, going to bed now, so perhaps you can indicate the major differences between what Senator Durbin proposed and this bill.

I will read it tomorrow

Good night!

[Lucian]

144. None of those will ever happen in a country that's in bed with large corporations.

I never had any faith that any of those would pass. Not with Big Business running the show.

:(

[Better Believe It]

147. If big mass movements are organized we can win on those issues.

That's what we did before on other issues and will do again.

[Lucian]

148. People are too lazy and apathetic to do anything.

Most people don't know what's good for them. They'll go along with the status quo.

[Creideiki]

154. DADT repeal dead. DOMA repeal dead.

You could wallpaper a lgbt community center with the broken promises.

[KamaAina]

162. Freedom from institutions for people with disabilities is dead.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5553784&mesg_id=5553784

Full Speed Ahead

:sarcasm:

[spanone]

163. i'll get frustrated when the points in your post prove true....

[Better Believe It]

165. I certainly hope so. I'd like to be proven wrong, but that appears less likely everyday.

[Romulox]

164. NAFTA re-negotiation DEAD (promises were mere "heated campaign rhetoric")

:eyes: